Eating

[Guest guest]

Dan fell off his growth curve, both height and weight, at about age 11.

His eating problem has been life long, however. Before that I used to

call him my air plant (remember those?) because I could not account for

his growth by the few calories he took in.

He fell off his growth curve at age 11, prior to his diagnosis of OCD at

age 13, although he clearly had OCD since he was 7 years old, and I

think it was manifest since infancy. He didn't take SSRIs until he was

13, so I don't think medication caused it. His nutrition has always

been inadequate for growth--that has been the one constant. As several

of you mentioned, for the past year I also have been supplementing his

diet with Ensure (which he doesn't like any more) and Boost.

I'll let you know what, if anything, I learn from the Hopkins clinic.

Judy

Kathy wrote:

>

> Judy and others, I've been following the discussion of OCD eating

> problems.

> My child has had several eating-related troubles: gruesome images in

> her

> mind that take away her appetite, vague OCD " rules " that she can't eat

> this

> or that--usually a favorite food, or that she's only " allowed " to eat

> when

> she's not hungry. No outright contamination stuff yet that I can

> tell.

>

> Through all this we've managed an adequate intake of calories, but

> she's

> fallen off her growth curve for height and hasn't gained any weight in

> almost a year. This is a cause for concern whether OCD is involved or

> not.

>

> Do I understand your post to mean you believe your child is short

> *due* to

> OCD eating problems and inadequate nutrition? I have been kicking

> around

> the idea that SSRIs or something about OCD's effect on the brain may

> affect

> children's growth. My child's growth patterns were fine until OCD

> onset.

> However I haven't been able to find anything linking OCD or SSRI use

> and

> stunted growth. Please let us know what you find out at s

> Hopkins.

>

> Kathy R. in Indiana

>

> Re: eating

>

> > Thanks for your support. I think exchanging information in this

> problem

> > area is very important. I have really been up against a brick wall

> to

> > date. He has an appointment with the s Hopkins short stature

> clinic

> > next week, but of course his size is a result, not a cause, of his

> > problem.

> >

> > Judy

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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> owner, at harkins@... .

[Guest guest]

Kathy - I have found the same to be true with my son. I come from a family

of very tall people and my OCD son has grown very little since the onset of

the disorder. His younger brother and most of his friends are passing him

by. Eliz in WI

Re: eating

>

>

> > Thanks for your support. I think exchanging information in this problem

> > area is very important. I have really been up against a brick wall to

> > date. He has an appointment with the s Hopkins short stature clinic

> > next week, but of course his size is a result, not a cause, of his

> > problem.

> >

> > Judy

>

>

>

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In

the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. The Archives,

Files, and Features List for the may be accessed by

going to , enter your email address and password,

then point and click. Subscription issues, problems, or suggestions may be

addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at harkins@... .

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The height thing is very interesting. My son is tall for his age but then his father was tall. It will be interesting to see if his growth slows down now that the OCD ha s kicked in. The question I have to ask is, is it the OCD or is it the medication ?

If anyone has seen any studies on it I'd be interested.

Terry

Re: eatingKathy - I have found the same to be true with my son. I come from a familyof very tall people and my OCD son has grown very little since the onset ofthe disorder. His younger brother and most of his friends are passing himby. Eliz in WI Re: eating>>> > Thanks for your support. I think exchanging information in this problem> > area is very important. I have really been up against a brick wall to> > date. He has an appointment with the s Hopkins short stature clinic> > next week, but of course his size is a result, not a cause, of his> > problem.> >> > Judy>>> >> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . Inthe body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. The Archives,Files, and Features List for the may be accessed bygoing to , enter your email address and password,then point and click. Subscription issues, problems, or suggestions may beaddressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at harkins@... .>>>>You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. The Archives, Files, and Features List for the may be accessed by going to , enter your email address and password, then point and click. Subscription issues, problems, or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at harkins@... .

[Guest guest]

HI All,

I just had to respond because this thread is so interesting to me.

andra has been taking an SSRI for two years and in that time her

growth has slowed, as well. Granted, she does not eat as well as she

used to: OCD interferes, and the medication makes her crave sweets. I

allow her more sweets than I intended to do as a mother, because, you

know, you have to pick your battles.

So, a new topic for research? andra is still growing, but now,

rather than being one of the tallest in her class, she appears average

in height. Maybe this is just a normal development?

Take care,

Lesli (SF Bay)

[Guest guest]

I can add this to the discussion--when I asked Kel's doctor about the

possibility of SSRIs affecting growth, he had his research aid look into it,

but this person came up empty.

I plan to ask him next visit, if anxiety and stress itself can affect

growth. There are bodily chemicals associated with these states, perhaps

they are involved? It would seem our children would be exposed to higher or

more constant levels of these chemicals. I'm thinking of cortisol, I

believe there are others.

Kel was never going to be tall--she cruised along in the 40th percentile for

height from birth until about a year and a half ago (she had her onset, and

then a " well " -child check within the month.) Earlier this year I found she

is scraping the bottom of the 10 percentile, nearly off the bottom of the

chart. She is noticeably the shortest kid in her class.

Kathy R. in Indiana

Re: eating

>

> HI All,

>

> I just had to respond because this thread is so interesting to me.

> andra has been taking an SSRI for two years and in that time her

> growth has slowed, as well. Granted, she does not eat as well as she

> used to: OCD interferes, and the medication makes her crave sweets. I

> allow her more sweets than I intended to do as a mother, because, you

> know, you have to pick your battles.

>

> So, a new topic for research? andra is still growing, but now,

> rather than being one of the tallest in her class, she appears average

> in height. Maybe this is just a normal development?

>

> Take care,

> Lesli (SF Bay)

[Guest guest]

Hi! I wish I did have first hand experience that I could share but he has

never had treatment for his eating problems. I had never heard the term

until I joined an on-line support group of children who were born premature,

as this is a very common problem with preemies. Some end up having feeding

tubes because they can't tolerate anything in their mouths. I just thought

he was very picky. also has other sensory problems that are more of a

problem and his fine-motor skills are very delayed, so the OT has

concentrated on those things. This issue has been discussed in detail on my

preemie list. One of the best suggestions that I have heard is to make a

list of all of the things your child likes to eat or drink and then to

divide them into " sensory categories " , such as texture, smell, color... .

Then find other foods that would also fit into that category. Someone

mentioned that their child likes cereals, so that could be categorized as

crunchy. You could offer them a small amount of other crunchy foods, such as

crackers, perhaps small bite sized ones, in keeping with the same general

appearance as cereal. Then if they accept that then slowly move on to other

crunchy/crispy food. Perhaps toast instead of just bread. Then if things go

well move into crunchy veggies, etc... . OT's work on overcoming oral

aversion by having them get used to different textures around or in their

mouths to help desensitize them. has a lot of unusual eating habits,

some COD, some oral aversion. Interestingly enough he has actually started

eating better and gaining weight since he started on Zoloft. Wish I could be

of more help! I'll ask on my other list and see if anyone knows of a good

resource.

Vicki in Ky.

[Guest guest]

Hi Terry,

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in....my son has had ocd since 7, (he's 14

now) and is on medication from the start....he is now 6' 2 " and is on, shall

I say, the very high side of the weight curve.

noelle in ny

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone:

Many of us were very impressed with how tall Noelle's " little " is

when we met him at the OCF Conference!! I can also add that Steve is also

very much on the big side for his age, thanks a lot to Paxil poundage and

too much time spent as a computer game potato.

Obviously these meds evoke very individual responses and OCD is not a

simple disorder manifesting similarly in the metabolism of all sufferers.

HOpefully some research will be done in this area to help understand what

is going on for our kids. Aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 06:49 PM 08/21/2000 -0400, you wrote:

>Hi Terry,

>Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in....my son has had ocd since 7, (he's 14

>now) and is on medication from the start....he is now 6' 2 " and is on, shall

>I say, the very high side of the weight curve.

>noelle in ny

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone:

Many of us were very impressed with how tall Noelle's " little " is

when we met him at the OCF Conference!! I can also add that Steve is also

very much on the big side for his age, thanks a lot to Paxil poundage and

too much time spent as a computer game potato.

Obviously these meds evoke very individual responses and OCD is not a

simple disorder manifesting similarly in the metabolism of all sufferers.

HOpefully some research will be done in this area to help understand what

is going on for our kids. Aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 06:49 PM 08/21/2000 -0400, you wrote:

>Hi Terry,

>Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in....my son has had ocd since 7, (he's 14

>now) and is on medication from the start....he is now 6' 2 " and is on, shall

>I say, the very high side of the weight curve.

>noelle in ny

[Guest guest]

Glad to hear it.

Terry

Re: eating

Hi Terry,Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in....my son has had ocd since 7, (he's 14 now) and is on medication from the start....he is now 6' 2" and is on, shall I say, the very high side of the weight curve. noelle in nyYou may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. The Archives, Files, and Features List for the may be accessed by going to , enter your email address and password, then point and click. Subscription issues, problems, or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at harkins@... .

[Guest guest]

Judy~

Ian's speech therapist insinuated his eating problem had to do with my providing bad choices..."if I simply provided good food choices Ian would pick foods that would provide a balanced diet." What I would give if that is all I had to do!! I hope her co-worker, an OT has more knowledge and less opinions. Thank you for sharing your experience. Joy

-----Original Message-----From: Judith C. Lovchik [mailto:jlovchik@...]Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 7:55 PMegroupsSubject: eatingIt is mainly textures that put my son off eating. And I know what youmean about the eating disorders clinic. When all else failed, Dan'spsychiatrist, pediatrician, and gastroenterologist insisted he must haveanorexia and sent him to a very good eating disorders clinic. Thepsychologist he saw quickly determined that his eating problems werenothing like anorexia and that their program would not be able to helphim. Unlike the arrogant second eating disorders program we took himto, which quickly determined that his eating problems were a result ofpoor parenting. Doncha love it. Anything you find that helps, please let me know! We are strugglinghere.JudyYou may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. The Archives, Files, and Features List for the may be accessed by going to , enter your email address and password, then point and click. Subscription issues, problems, or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at harkins@... .

[Guest guest]

Been there, heard that!!! Wouldn't it be great to have all the answers

like some of the therapists we encounter? Perhaps you could ask her to

suggest suitable snacks for you to bring to the next therapy session so

she could show you how its done. Of course, the rotten thing is that

your child would probably eat it for her--they can sometimes hold it

together temorarily for an outsider.

My son began his ERP therapy for food issues this week. I was pretty

sure he would not eat the food that was chosen--tuna on crackers. But

he sat there and ate it like it was a non-issue! Whatever it takes. He

is " practicing " eating tuna and salmon on crackers the rest of this

week--only one of each is required. Tonight he ate three salmon

crackers--not bad.

Today I searched Medline for " oral aversion " and " Sensory Integration

Disorder. " I learned that they are not commonly used as " medical "

terms. There were a few references from nursing and OT journals but not

much. I wonder what library database OT practicioners use.

Judy

> K & J wrote:

>

> Judy~

> Ian's speech therapist insinuated his eating problem had to do with

> my providing bad choices... " if I simply provided good food choices

> Ian would pick foods that would provide a balanced diet. " What I

> would give if that is all I had to do!! I hope her co-worker, an OT

> has more knowledge and less opinions. Thank you for sharing your

> experience. Joy

>

> eating

>

> It is mainly textures that put my son off eating. And I

> know what you

> mean about the eating disorders clinic. When all else

> failed, Dan's

> psychiatrist, pediatrician, and gastroenterologist insisted

> he must have

> anorexia and sent him to a very good eating disorders

> clinic. The

> psychologist he saw quickly determined that his eating

> problems were

> nothing like anorexia and that their program would not be

> able to help

> him. Unlike the arrogant second eating disorders program we

> took him

> to, which quickly determined that his eating problems were a

> result of

> poor parenting. Doncha love it.

>

> Anything you find that helps, please let me know! We are

> struggling

> here.

>

> Judy

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing

> listserv@... . In the body of your message

> write: subscribe OCD-L your name. The Archives, Files,

> and Features List for the may be

> accessed by going to , enter your

> email address and password, then point and click.

> Subscription issues, problems, or suggestions may be

> addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at

> harkins@... .

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... .

> In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. The

> Archives, Files, and Features List for the may

> be accessed by going to , enter your email

> address and password, then point and click. Subscription issues,

> problems, or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list

> owner, at harkins@... .

[Guest guest]

judy--

search " google.com " (my very favorite search engine) for sensory integration

disorder or disfunction " -- lots of sites worth visiting there.

And keep searching for good help-- it is out there-- was 19 pounds

when she was 2 years old, and 19 pounds on her third birthday. Although

there was a lot of underpinning suggestion about how she wouldn't eat as a

control issue over us, there were also a lot of good suggestions that got her

started again. Silly things that worked, like she wouldn't eat an entire

cookie (is this child really mine?), so I would give her a platter of various

kinds of those little tiny cookies they have, and she would scarf those down.

Good luck-- very frustrating, I know.

Ellen

I also finally decided that my daughter was the healthiest kid I knew, barely

getting colds, sniffling for a day once in a while, then back to normal, and

I was just going to leave her alone. Different issue though.

[Guest guest]

judy--

search " google.com " (my very favorite search engine) for sensory integration

disorder or disfunction " -- lots of sites worth visiting there.

And keep searching for good help-- it is out there-- was 19 pounds

when she was 2 years old, and 19 pounds on her third birthday. Although

there was a lot of underpinning suggestion about how she wouldn't eat as a

control issue over us, there were also a lot of good suggestions that got her

started again. Silly things that worked, like she wouldn't eat an entire

cookie (is this child really mine?), so I would give her a platter of various

kinds of those little tiny cookies they have, and she would scarf those down.

Good luck-- very frustrating, I know.

Ellen

I also finally decided that my daughter was the healthiest kid I knew, barely

getting colds, sniffling for a day once in a while, then back to normal, and

I was just going to leave her alone. Different issue though.

[Guest guest]

Hi Judith:

Steve had and has many OCD/eating issues around going to the cafeteria. HE

will eat some food from home and this is how he usually manages it. THe

cafeteria used to be so contaminated he found a way to eat in the school

sick room without reporting in as sick!

HE is also a vegetarian and still has a lot of food ideas and " issues " .

Due to his Luvox and Paxil he has metabolic changes which keep him more

heavy than average. He does eat pretty well at home now that he has

mastered E & RP. He used to meltdown severely whenever he saw me eat fish -

I only do this once or twice a month as advised by my acupuncturist for

health. I prefer to be a complete vegetarian (please wish me good luck in

Denver which will probably be as much of a meat eaters' paradise as Chicago

was!) and Steve's scrupulosity really kicks in when he sees me break the

vegetarian rules occasionally. We have been able to consequence his verbal

diarrhea about this, and he works hard to stop ritualizing when he sees me

eat my medicinal salmon.

I know these problems are very trivial compared to those of you on the list

who are wrestling with anorexia and other serious OCD-spectrum disorders

but I thought some might be interested in OCD eating symptoms that we have

experienced.

Good luck, take care, aloha, Kathy (h)

kathyh@...

P.S. A 25% chance of Kuru would be too high for me to eat brains, but then

I am " mostly " a veggie! :-) K.

At 09:55 PM 06/15/2001 -0400, you wrote:

> " I wish I had a quarter for every

>time someone has informed me that " when he gets hungry enough he will

>eat. " He will go into a coma before he will eat People think

>chitterlings, and head sausage, etc. Wrong. Imagine being served nothing

>but raw human brains, obtained from a colony with a 25% prevalence of

>Kuru. All your family and friends are saying " This is delicious. Tastes

>just like chicken. How do you know you won't like it till you try it? It's

>yummy--not slimy at all. That Kuru thing is way overblown--my grandfather

>ate raw human brains every day of his life and he lived to be 94. " How

>long before YOU got hungry enough to eat it? That's how Dan perceives most

>food, Japanese or otherwise. At the table, he looks like he's going to

>throw up. Put that image in your mind next time you are impatient when

>your child " won't " eat. Judy

[Guest guest]

Judy,

I loved your analogy and never thought about it this way. Although

doesn't view food as Dan does, I can see his thinking of

ingesting " unhealthy " foods as I would human brains. That gave me

pause to think...there is nothing logical about this, so reasoning

with your child rarely helps. Thanks for the insight.

BTW...are you inundated with strangers and acquaintances commenting

on how thin Dan is? I doubt these people would ever come up and

comment on how heavy a child was. Sorry to gripe, but it happened

again tonight and I am weary...

Melinda S.

Dallas

> For a change, I agree with her school. My son has always had this

problem.

> I've had the guidance counsellor observe him in the cafeteria and

asked for

> a report, etc. Some years I've packed his lunch, including only

things he

> says he will eat. Mostly they came home squished and stale after

school.

> The public schools have always had these ridiculously short lunch

periods,

> partly so they don't have to supervise wild mobs of children for

prolonged

> periods and partly because they are so crowded that they have to

run through

> a ridiculous number of lunch shifts. My son has had lunch

scheduled for as

> early as 10:30am or as late as 12:45pm. The private school was

much better,

> giving them a whole hour for lunch. But Dan wouldn't eat the food

there

> either.

>

> The basic problem is that the kids won't (can't) eat--the school

situation

> just aggravates it. I agree that you should provide nutritional

drink

> supplements (after trying them all, my son is willing to drink

chocolate

> Boost). That way she will get the bare necessities and not spend

her school

> day nutritionally deprived, which is a really horrible learning

situation.

> Sending the cheerios, crackers, and cheese is a good idea. Don't

think of

> it as a school-based problem. It is an OCD problem, one which is

extremely

> difficult to deal with or treat.

>

> I changed therapists a year ago because he hadn't made any progress

with the

> eating. Even though the new therapist was recommended by Dr. Judith

> Rapoport as the best in the area, I can't say his eating situation

is really

> any better almost a year later. You make a mistake in looking

for " reasons "

> why the kids won't eat whatever they won't eat. It is no more

rational than

> any of their other obsessions/compulsions. Dan has done lots of

ER/P around

> eating issues, but I don't think it has made any overall difference.

>

> Dan is going to Japan with his orchestra in a couple of days, and I

had to

> explain to the director the severe problems he will have around

eating.

> This is how I explained it:

> " I wish I had a quarter for every time someone has informed me

that " when he

> gets hungry enough he will eat. " He will go into a coma before he

will eat.

> People think it's like gefilte fish, tripe, blood sausage,

chitterlings, and

> head sausage, etc. Wrong. Imagine being served nothing but raw

human brains,

> obtained from a colony with a 25% prevalence of Kuru. All your

family and

> friends are saying " This is delicious. Tastes just like chicken.

How do you

> know you won't like it till you try it? It's yummy--not slimy at

all. That

> Kuru thing is way overblown--my grandfather ate raw human brains

every day

> of his life and he lived to be 94. " How long before YOU got hungry

enough to

> eat it? That's how Dan perceives most food, Japanese or otherwise.

At the

> table, he looks like he's going to throw up. " Put that image in

your mind

> next time you are impatient when your child " won't " eat.

>

> Judy

>

>

>

> Re: Re: hi, i'm new to this group(

Joni)

>

>

> Hi Joni, I just read your posting to welcome Amy to the group

and I came

> across your mentioning 's eating concerns with school. My

daughter

> does

> not do well eating lunches at school either. Could you be so

kind to

> tell

> me why chooses to eat just carrots. This has been a big

concern and

> at

> the end of the school year I am packing a bag of cheerios or

crackers and

> cheese just so my daughter (8 yrs old) gets something in her

stomach. She

> has so much to work on now, I never brought up why she doesn't

eat certain

> foods. Even the foods she chooses they still come home intact.

When she

> was

> first diagnosed and I shared this with the school, I told them

eating was

> a

> big conern and I wanted her to fininsh her lunch. (they only get

15 min)

> They suggested they she drink nutritional drinks and send her

healty

> snacks.

> They just don't get it! I spoke to her therapist this past week

about

> school, and she feels that since she comes home so tired, perhaps

it has

> to

> do with eating or should I say not eating lunch. She was going to

speak to

> my

> daughter about this issue. My daughter is scheduled to go to the

Child's

> study clinic at Yale on Tuesday and this is one of my concerns

I'll be

> speaking to them about along with my long list of others! I just

got

> throught with her yelling at me for her hair, it sticks up and

one side

> has a

> wave in it and she wants it straight to her head. She has pretty

blonde

> hair

> and I'm so upset right now that she doesn't see it that way. She

has been

> late the past week for school because of her hair. I didnn't get

too

> upset

> and thought maybe it wasn't OCD but today I know it is. School

finised

> yesterday and she is just playing, why does her hair have to be

perfect?

> I'm

> sorry for going on like this, I'm just dissappointed that she is

not able

> to

> get control of her emotions. She is not on meds now and this too

will be

> discussed with the Yale study team. I decided to take Paxil

myself to

> take

> the edge off but it doesn't seem to be helping lately. I had

told her

> that

> if she can control herself today and speak nicely to me and not

attack

> her

> brother (3 yrs old) I will give her 4 quarters to play games at

the ice

> rink

> today, she was all excited but I guess I just realized how hard

it must be

> for her to boss back. Thanks again to all for listening and

reading my

> thoughts. I look forward to a better day, Debbie.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Kathy H.,

It's interesting that meat-eating is one of the issues in your house. I, too, am a vegetarian, and although I don't pressure my family one way or the other (though I am leaning heavily toward outlawing beef as a policy...) my daughter has real problems with meat. I feel bad that I have inflicted another OCD thing on her just because I can't fathom eating meat. She has an impossible time eating in restaurants (don't know exactly why) and the last time we went out my husband ordered spare ribs. They served him an entire cowful. Poor Annie was green and in tears the entire meal, which was a celebration of my mother-in-law's birthday. She will sometimes eat meat, but then suffers terrible pangs afterward.

Good luck in Denver with finding something other than steaks to eat!

[Guest guest]

Oh geez - we'd have never gotten over a live lobster!!!! Thankfully my husband knows better than to try that out with ANY of us around!

[Guest guest]

Hi , I am not a vegetarian and my daughter has had problems eating meat ever since she figured out where it came from. She feels sorry for the animals, and since OCD, eating meat can provoke her cutting and death obsessions. She does better when the meat is not so "identifiable" but my husband, like yours, seems to want to order off the top of Kel's heirarchy when we are restaurants. The meal when he ordered a whole lobster--in a place where they keep them in a big tank in the middle of the dining room--will stand out in my mind for a long time to come. DH's dinner struggled mightily before it was finally subdued and carried to the kitchen. :-/

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

From: xslav@...

It's interesting that meat-eating is one of the issues in your house. I, too, am a vegetarian, and although I don't pressure my family one way or the other (though I am leaning heavily toward outlawing beef as a policy...) my daughter has real problems with meat. I feel bad that I have inflicted another OCD thing on her just because I can't fathom eating meat. She has an impossible time eating in restaurants (don't know exactly why) and the last time we went out my husband ordered spare ribs. They served him an entire cowful. Poor Annie was green and in tears the entire meal, which was a celebration of my mother-in-law's birthday. She will sometimes eat meat, but then suffers terrible pangs afterward.

[Guest guest]

yes, that has happened too. When we went for camp physicals,

and his younger brother were examined by a physicians' assistant who

did not know them...mistook Jeff for the older child... for

the younger. Hopefully, that will just be one more brick added to

the foundation on which he will build his recovery.

Melinda

> > For a change, I agree with her school. My son has always had

this

> problem.

> > I've had the guidance counsellor observe him in the cafeteria

and

> asked for

> > a report, etc. Some years I've packed his lunch, including

only

> things he

> > says he will eat. Mostly they came home squished and stale

after

> school.

> > The public schools have always had these ridiculously short

lunch

> periods,

> > partly so they don't have to supervise wild mobs of children

for

> prolonged

> > periods and partly because they are so crowded that they have

to

> run through

> > a ridiculous number of lunch shifts. My son has had lunch

> scheduled for as

> > early as 10:30am or as late as 12:45pm. The private school was

> much better,

> > giving them a whole hour for lunch. But Dan wouldn't eat the

food

> there

> > either.

> >

> > The basic problem is that the kids won't (can't) eat--the

school

> situation

> > just aggravates it. I agree that you should provide

nutritional

> drink

> > supplements (after trying them all, my son is willing to drink

> chocolate

> > Boost). That way she will get the bare necessities and not

spend

> her school

> > day nutritionally deprived, which is a really horrible learning

> situation.

> > Sending the cheerios, crackers, and cheese is a good idea.

Don't

> think of

> > it as a school-based problem. It is an OCD problem, one which

is

> extremely

> > difficult to deal with or treat.

> >

> > I changed therapists a year ago because he hadn't made any

progress

> with the

> > eating. Even though the new therapist was recommended by Dr.

Judith

> > Rapoport as the best in the area, I can't say his eating

situation

> is really

> > any better almost a year later. You make a mistake in looking

> for " reasons "

> > why the kids won't eat whatever they won't eat. It is no more

> rational than

> > any of their other obsessions/compulsions. Dan has done lots

of

> ER/P around

> > eating issues, but I don't think it has made any overall

difference.

> >

> > Dan is going to Japan with his orchestra in a couple of days,

and I

> had to

> > explain to the director the severe problems he will have around

> eating.

> > This is how I explained it:

> > " I wish I had a quarter for every time someone has informed me

> that " when he

> > gets hungry enough he will eat. " He will go into a coma before

he

> will eat.

> > People think it's like gefilte fish, tripe, blood sausage,

> chitterlings, and

> > head sausage, etc. Wrong. Imagine being served nothing but raw

> human brains,

> > obtained from a colony with a 25% prevalence of Kuru. All your

> family and

> > friends are saying " This is delicious. Tastes just like

chicken.

> How do you

> > know you won't like it till you try it? It's yummy--not slimy

at

> all. That

> > Kuru thing is way overblown--my grandfather ate raw human

brains

> every day

> > of his life and he lived to be 94. " How long before YOU got

hungry

> enough to

> > eat it? That's how Dan perceives most food, Japanese or

otherwise.

> At the

> > table, he looks like he's going to throw up. " Put that image

in

> your mind

> > next time you are impatient when your child " won't " eat.

> >

> > Judy

> >

> >

> >

> > Re: Re: hi, i'm new to this group(

> Joni)

> >

> >

> > Hi Joni, I just read your posting to welcome Amy to the

group

> and I came

> > across your mentioning 's eating concerns with school.

My

> daughter

> > does

> > not do well eating lunches at school either. Could you be so

> kind to

> > tell

> > me why chooses to eat just carrots. This has been a

big

> concern and

> > at

> > the end of the school year I am packing a bag of cheerios or

> crackers and

> > cheese just so my daughter (8 yrs old) gets something in her

> stomach. She

> > has so much to work on now, I never brought up why she

doesn't

> eat certain

> > foods. Even the foods she chooses they still come home

intact.

> When she

> > was

> > first diagnosed and I shared this with the school, I told

them

> eating was

> > a

> > big conern and I wanted her to fininsh her lunch. (they only

get

> 15 min)

> > They suggested they she drink nutritional drinks and send her

> healty

> > snacks.

> > They just don't get it! I spoke to her therapist this past

week

> about

> > school, and she feels that since she comes home so tired,

perhaps

> it has

> > to

> > do with eating or should I say not eating lunch. She was

going to

> speak to

> > my

> > daughter about this issue. My daughter is scheduled to go to

the

> Child's

> > study clinic at Yale on Tuesday and this is one of my

concerns

> I'll be

> > speaking to them about along with my long list of others! I

just

> got

> > throught with her yelling at me for her hair, it sticks up

and

> one side

> > has a

> > wave in it and she wants it straight to her head. She has

pretty

> blonde

> > hair

> > and I'm so upset right now that she doesn't see it that way.

She

> has been

> > late the past week for school because of her hair. I didnn't

get

> too

> > upset

> > and thought maybe it wasn't OCD but today I know it is.

School

> finised

> > yesterday and she is just playing, why does her hair have to

be

> perfect?

> > I'm

> > sorry for going on like this, I'm just dissappointed that she

is

> not able

> > to

> > get control of her emotions. She is not on meds now and this

too

> will be

> > discussed with the Yale study team. I decided to take Paxil

> myself to

> > take

> > the edge off but it doesn't seem to be helping lately. I

had

> told her

> > that

> > if she can control herself today and speak nicely to me and

not

> attack

> > her

> > brother (3 yrs old) I will give her 4 quarters to play games

at

> the ice

> > rink

> > today, she was all excited but I guess I just realized how

hard

> it must be

> > for her to boss back. Thanks again to all for listening and

> reading my

> > thoughts. I look forward to a better day, Debbie.

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Like you I have been concerned that my vegetarianism has triggered Steve's

OCD. , my dh, does eat meat occasionally when we eat out but I never

cook any meat or buy it to bring to our home. It certainly makes pot

washing ( a kid chore) so much easier. :-)

Good for Annie when she can eat meat from an OCD perspective. It is hard

for us when our values collide with doing the best E & RP. Steve will not

touch any meat and I do not act as if this is OCD, even when it is, aas I

hope his E & RP will generalize. Take care, aloha, Kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 05:40 PM 06/17/2001 EDT, you wrote:

>Dear Kathy H.,

> It's interesting that meat-eating is one of the issues in your house.

>I, too, am a vegetarian, and although I don't pressure my family one way or

>the other (though I am leaning heavily toward outlawing beef as a

policy...)

>my daughter has real problems with meat. I feel bad that I have inflicted

>another OCD thing on her just because I can't fathom eating meat. She has

an

>impossible time eating in restaurants (don't know exactly why) and the last

>time we went out my husband ordered spare ribs. They served him an entire

>cowful. Poor Annie was green and in tears the entire meal, which was a

>celebration of my mother-in-law's birthday. She will sometimes eat meat,

but

>then suffers terrible pangs afterward.

> luck in Denver with finding something other than steaks to eat!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I too vegeterian since 17 years & I feel great, I only eat fish. I always

try to advice my children & husband to be the same. I don't cook much with

meat. There are a lots of substitutions for meat, & in my point of view

somebody will live healthier without meet. I use all soy pruducts that is a

good substitute for meat, & somebody should know what to eat.I read a lots

about healthy livings.

Huda

>From: xslav@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: eating

>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 17:40:58 EDT

>

>Dear Kathy H.,

> It's interesting that meat-eating is one of the issues in your

>house.

>I, too, am a vegetarian, and although I don't pressure my family one way or

>the other (though I am leaning heavily toward outlawing beef as a

>policy...)

>my daughter has real problems with meat. I feel bad that I have inflicted

>another OCD thing on her just because I can't fathom eating meat. She has

>an

>impossible time eating in restaurants (don't know exactly why) and the last

>time we went out my husband ordered spare ribs. They served him an entire

>cowful. Poor Annie was green and in tears the entire meal, which was a

>celebration of my mother-in-law's birthday. She will sometimes eat meat,

>but

>then suffers terrible pangs afterward.

> Good luck in Denver with finding something other than steaks to

>eat!

>

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

[Guest guest]

Dear Kathy H.,

My last comment on this non-very OCD related subject : When Annie was three and her brother had just been born, my mother-in-law came for a visit. She made something (pot roast?) for my husband who gets no meat in our household unless he buys it and cooks it himself, which he basically never does. So he gave Annie some to try and when she ate it and asked what it was he said, "beef." Then, trying to be a good impartial father he explained that beef is the meat of a cow. She burst into laughter and said "oh Daddy, come on!!!" and for the rest of the week kept telling people "my daddy said I was eating a cow!!!!" as if it was the funniest joke on the planet. Apparently sometime in the intervening 5 years she has realized it wasn't a joke!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/8/2001 11:46:33 PM EST, outerspace@... writes:

<< An average of 4 days a week he will eat his 's

salad and/or Stouffers frozen Lasagna and that is it! >>

Guess we are going to have to take him out more because he does eat better

out SOME of the time but that's rough now until I get back to work. Thanks,

Peggy

[Guest guest]

Yes Peggy!

There are days that will only eat a 's ceasar salad and then

drink about 10 glasses of milk and/or Sunny D!!! NEVER eats breakfast

( weekday or weekend) and he hardly ever eats dinner.

He will eat lunch at school on a consistent basis ( I know my cooking is NOT

that bad!!!!!!!!!!!) An average of 4 days a week he will eat his 's

salad and/or Stouffers frozen Lasagna and that is it!

Thanks, Kathy

Eating

> Do any of you have difficulties getting your kids to eat? It seems like

> there are days Ray doesn't eat enough to survive. He is having

more

> regular elmination on the increased vitamins but it hasn't helped his

apetite

> too much - some increase. He still eats very little except bread which I

> would like to limit more. He is drinking Gatorade but inconsistently.

> Peggy

>

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