hypoglycemia

October 16, 2000

Agreed!

Protein is necessary for a hypo....

sherry mccartney <sherrymccartney@...> wrote:

Dear Thersea, I am curious why you would avoid a high protein diet for hypoglycemia. If anything that is what you need especially for O's. The last thing a hypo needs is carbo and more carbo. Whole grains and the rice protein shake is all mainly carbo and so are all fruits.And also why leave the evening meal mainly for your carbo?????????In addition (try to eat at the same time) what about eating when you feel hungry or tired.Everyone is different and as a hypo myself and this happened last week I ate a lot of carbo's - the rice protein shake, bananas and millet cereal with rice milk and bananas and apples for 3 days and cut back on the meat and veg to once a day to see what would happen. Well I went shopping for groceries on the third day and I had an attack in the store and thought I was going to pass out. Lucky my husband was there and I went to the deli and bought some ox tongue meat and started eating and started feeling better.To give someone advice to not have a high-meat-protein diet is quite dangerous. Each individual hypoglycemic has to work out there diet for themselves.Sherry>>and high-meat-protein diets.>>Put more emphasis on whole grains (O recommended), seeds and nuts.>>In the morning take the Rice Protein Shake with a Low Glycemic Index fruit>such as apricots or cherries. If you want more protein you can add some>ground walnuts or other recommended nuts such as almonds.>>Leave the evening meal mainly for your carbohydrates.>>In addition to your three meals (try to eat always at the same time)>>_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the mailing list.

October 16, 2000

Dear Thersea, I am curious why you would avoid a high protein diet for

hypoglycemia. If anything that is what you need especially for O's. The last

thing a hypo needs is carbo and more carbo. Whole grains and the rice

protein shake is all mainly carbo and so are all fruits.

And also why leave the evening meal mainly for your carbo?????????

In addition (try to eat at the same time) what about eating when you feel

hungry or tired.

Everyone is different and as a hypo myself and this happened last week I

ate a lot of carbo's - the rice protein shake, bananas and millet cereal

with rice milk and bananas and apples for 3 days and cut back on the meat

and veg to once a day to see what would happen. Well I went shopping for

groceries on the third day and I had an attack in the store and thought I

was going to pass out. Lucky my husband was there and I went to the deli and

bought some ox tongue meat and started eating and started feeling better.

To give someone advice to not have a high-meat-protein diet is quite

dangerous. Each individual hypoglycemic has to work out there diet for

themselves.

Sherry

>

>and high-meat-protein diets.

>

>Put more emphasis on whole grains (O recommended), seeds and nuts.

>

>In the morning take the Rice Protein Shake with a Low Glycemic Index fruit

>such as apricots or cherries. If you want more protein you can add some

>ground walnuts or other recommended nuts such as almonds.

>

>Leave the evening meal mainly for your carbohydrates.

>

>In addition to your three meals (try to eat always at the same time)

>

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

October 17, 2000

Dear Sherry:

If you want to take somebody's advice, specially if you have a health

condition, you must understand it thoroughly. I gave the name of the book

where the Circadian Diet is (The Circadian Prescription by Sidney Mac

Baker MD). For breakfast you were eating way too many carbohydrates when you

ate millet and apples. You had to ingest proteins instead. For snaks: more

proteins: almonds for example...

I can't agree with you more on the fact that each individual is different.

Something that works for one human being can have very bad reactions in

another one. We have to take into account our cultural backgrounds, our

inheritance, the environment, the levels of stress, our vitamin deficiencies

and the parasite issue to name just a few.

About treatments, there are so many schools of thought hard to enumerate. As

for myself, I lean towards non invasive therapies, natural remedies, oriental

and ayurvedic medicine; I found homeopathy, acupuncture, reiki, reflexology,

massage, aromatherapy, etc., of great help to prevent and treat disease. I

have great respect for western medicine and the amazing advances in many

different fields but in the field of preventing maladies I think they are way

behind other ancient medicines.

Dr. Weil, MD says in his book Natural Health, Natural Medicine on page

303:

" Health practitioners who like to diagnose hypoglycemia usually recommend

dietary changes that are quite unhealthy: minimizing consumption of

carbohydrate and eating mostly protein, for example. They also urge people

to take all sorts of vitamins and supplements that are unlikely to be of any

value.

If you think you have unstable blood sugar, follow the recommendations I have

given you about diet (Chapters 1 and 2), exercise (Chapter 5), and relaxation

(Chapter 6). "

Paavo Airola PhD in his book How to Get well says on page 112:

" The commonly recommended diet for hypoglycemia - high animal protein - is

not advisable for this condition. Although it may help in controlling the

condition, it is so harmful in many other aspects that using it would merely

mean replacing one illness with a host of others. "

" Hypoglycemics should eat 6 to 8 small meals a day, instead of only 2 or 3.

In addition to regular breakfast, lunch and dinner, take snacks in between

meals consisting of raw nuts, seeds...Even any of the fresh sweet fruits can

be eaten if you eat only one, and no more, at one time... "

Dr. D. on the other hand says on page 145 of ER4YT:

" My patients with hypoglycemia often ask me if they should follow the

standard advice of eating several small meals a day in order to keep their

blood sugar levels from dropping. I discourage this practice. I find that

the major problem is not when they eat, but what they eat...The problem with

" grazing " ...is that interferes with your body's natural hunger signals... "

A book I find of great help on sugar matters is " Potatoes not Prozac " by

Kathleen DesMaisons, PhD and still another one titled " The Carbohydrate

Addict's Diet " .

I am glad you have a Glycemic Index Table; that will be of good help to make

your choices.

Have a great day!

October 17, 2000

terebrito@... wrote:

> Dear Colin:

> My mother found out she had diabetes some eight years ago, so, in order to

> explain her her condition I had to learn it myself. There is indeed a

> dicotomy: hyploglycemia is the first level to further become a diabetic (high

> blood sugar).

>

> During digestion, all the carbohydrates you ingest are converted into

> glucose.

Two comments... 1. all food not just carbohydrates are converted (or partially

converted) to glucose. And 2. not all hypoglycemics become hyperglycemics

(diabetic).

Crystal.

October 17, 2000

sherry mccartney wrote:

> Diabeties is a deficiency of insulin, or there is insufficient production of

> insulin and therefore glucose cannot be converted to energy but instead

> accumulates in the blood.

> Sherry

okay a little clarification Juvenile diabetics (or Type I or IDD Insulin

Dependent Diabetes)

diabetes is from an insufficient production of insulin - Adult on-set or Type II

or NIDD -

Non-Insulin Dependent Diabetes can be caused by several factors amoung which is

you

do produce enough insulin however your receptors don't " uptake " it properly (and

then

you usually have excess insulin floating around) = (this is basically it)

Crystal.

October 17, 2000

sherry mccartney wrote:

> The pandemic of low blood sugar has swept the western world this past decade

> to become the most fashionable syndrome ever in medical history. It's

> virtue, for so many people, is that it is an excuse for tiredness-a real

> cop-out, without being fatal.

Hypoglycemia is a measurable thing you don't " just make it up " as an " excuse "

for tiredness.

sheesh.

October 18, 2000

Thersea, I am not trying to be funny but are you trying to scare people

because this statement is not always the case " hyploglycemia is the first

level to further become a diabetic (high

>blood sugar). "

An except from a book on hypo

Hypoglycemia is an abnormally low level of glucose, or sugar, in the blood

caused by too much sugar in the diet, tumors in the pancxreas causing an

overproduction of insulin, or disorders of the liver interfering with the

storage and release of sugar. An overconsumption of carbo causes the blood

sugar level to rise rapidly. stimulating the pancreas to secrete an excess

of insulin. This excess insulin removes too much sugar from the blood,

resulting in an abnormally low blood sugar level. The therapeutic diet for

hypoglycemia is high in protein, low in carbo, moderate in fat. The diet may

be supplemented with high-protein between-meal snacks. When carbo are

unavoidable, only those that are slowly absorbed, such as fruits,

vegetables, and whole-grain products, should be eaten, so that the change in

the blood sugar level will be gradual. Coffee, strong tea, and cocoa should

be avoided because they are capable of precipitating an attack of hypo.

Sever atuthorities suggest that daily ingestion of vit C can help prevent

low blood sugar attacks.

Diabeties is a deficiency of insulin, or there is insufficient production of

insulin and therefore glucose cannot be converted to energy but instead

accumulates in the blood.

Hypoglycemia is relatively common in diabetics. It occurs when too much

insulin or medication is taken or not enough food is eaten.

Sherry

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

October 18, 2000

Thersea, I do understand hypo very well because I listen to how my body

reacts to foods. I have had to after all these years, I am 49 years old. I

have tried all the diets for hypo including the low carbo diet, the raw food

diet, the macrobiotic diet, you name it I have tried it and this from NEW

DIMENSIONS IN HEALTH

The pandemic of low blood sugar has swept the western world this past decade

to become the most fashionable syndrome ever in medical history. It's

virtue, for so many people, is that it is an excuse for tiredness-a real

cop-out, without being fatal. Dr such and such of canada says the root cause

is not dietary inadequacy but boredom, disinterest, indolence laziness. To

attend to the emotional bases of hypo, we must turn to wise conselling to

quide the person onto the most suitable life path.

I have tried accupuncture, massage, osteopath, reiki, naturopaths who are

friends, herbalist another friend, spiritual healing, nutritionist friend

again, homeopathic which I found very invasive for me, etc.

What has got me to understand my body and listen to how it reacts to foods

is a technique called " Stress Defusion " and counselling which I have studied

and am now qualified in.

We are all different and what didn't work for me might work for others we

have to try.

I know I was eating too many carbo for breakfast so now I eat eggs and

sausages or other meat and sausages for breakfast at 8.30/9am and then I do

not feel hungary until 2pm and then I will have more meat (lamb chops or

steak, etc)with salad or vegetables. If I get hungry later I will have veg

when I cook for the family and maybe some almonds/nuts or meat, whatever I

feel like. At the moment my body likes that and has quite a lot of energy.

Potatoes are also high in carbo and yes I have looked at those books.

Doesn't Dr D'Adamo say in one of his books that meat for O converts into

sugar?

Do you eat meat, it seems to me that you are saying we should eat other

forms of protein and not meat. If I have read this wrong please forgive me

but I no longer listen to people who espouse that meat is not good for you

it causes all these problems. I have followed that advice long enough and it

has not benefited my health at all.

Sherry

>From: terebrito@...

>Reply-egroups

>egroups

>Subject: Re: hypoglycemia

>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:49:05 EDT

>

>Dear Sherry:

>If you want to take somebody's advice, specially if you have a health

>condition, you must understand it thoroughly. I gave the name of the book

>where the Circadian Diet is (The Circadian Prescription by Sidney Mac

>Baker MD). For breakfast you were eating way too many carbohydrates when

>you

>ate millet and apples. You had to ingest proteins instead. For snaks:

>more

>proteins: almonds for example...

>I can't agree with you more on the fact that each individual is different.

>Something that works for one human being can have very bad reactions in

>another one. We have to take into account our cultural backgrounds, our

>inheritance, the environment, the levels of stress, our vitamin

>deficiencies

>and the parasite issue to name just a few.

>About treatments, there are so many schools of thought hard to enumerate.

>As

>for myself, I lean towards non invasive therapies, natural remedies,

>oriental

>and ayurvedic medicine; I found homeopathy, acupuncture, reiki,

>reflexology,

>massage, aromatherapy, etc., of great help to prevent and treat disease. I

>have great respect for western medicine and the amazing advances in many

>different fields but in the field of preventing maladies I think they are

>way

>behind other ancient medicines.

>

>Dr. Weil, MD says in his book Natural Health, Natural Medicine on

>page

>303:

> " Health practitioners who like to diagnose hypoglycemia usually recommend

>dietary changes that are quite unhealthy: minimizing consumption of

>carbohydrate and eating mostly protein, for example. They also urge people

>to take all sorts of vitamins and supplements that are unlikely to be of

>any

>value.

>If you think you have unstable blood sugar, follow the recommendations I

>have

>given you about diet (Chapters 1 and 2), exercise (Chapter 5), and

>relaxation

>(Chapter 6). "

>Paavo Airola PhD in his book How to Get well says on page 112:

> " The commonly recommended diet for hypoglycemia - high animal protein - is

>not advisable for this condition. Although it may help in controlling the

>condition, it is so harmful in many other aspects that using it would

>merely

>mean replacing one illness with a host of others. "

> " Hypoglycemics should eat 6 to 8 small meals a day, instead of only 2 or 3.

>In addition to regular breakfast, lunch and dinner, take snacks in between

>meals consisting of raw nuts, seeds...Even any of the fresh sweet fruits

>can

>be eaten if you eat only one, and no more, at one time... "

>

>Dr. D. on the other hand says on page 145 of ER4YT:

> " My patients with hypoglycemia often ask me if they should follow the

>standard advice of eating several small meals a day in order to keep their

>blood sugar levels from dropping. I discourage this practice. I find that

>the major problem is not when they eat, but what they eat...The problem

>with

> " grazing " ...is that interferes with your body's natural hunger signals... "

>

>A book I find of great help on sugar matters is " Potatoes not Prozac " by

>Kathleen DesMaisons, PhD and still another one titled " The Carbohydrate

>Addict's Diet " .

>

>I am glad you have a Glycemic Index Table; that will be of good help to

>make

>your choices.

>Have a great day!

>

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

October 18, 2000

Sorry group!

I did not mean to scare you!!! I should have said in some cases.

PS.

Thanks Sherry!

October 18, 2000

Hi Sherry!

Yes, I do eat meat but I enjoy mainly white meats and love sea food. I have

some joint trouble, so fish for me is perfect. I check once in a while my pH

also and since it has the tendency to be on the acidic side I try to eat

besides meat and veg. protein, more alkaline foods. I grew up eating a lot

of wheat (my father not only owned a wheat mill but also a French Bread

bakery). In Ecuador our main nuriture is based on corn and potatoes. I

guess the fact that we ate non processed foods (my mother even made gelatin

from bones of beef) lots of cereals (Quinoa comes from Ecuador) and herbs and

natural remedies only, balances the fact that we ate the wrong blood type

foods.

Bye for now and have a wonderful evening!

October 19, 2000

I read that many years ago and immediately went into (Am I a

hypocondriac???????) and scanned all those books like 'Heal Your Body and

The Body Is The Barometer Of The Soul So Be Your Own Doctor'. I would look

up all my symptoms and read the probable cause and I think that was when I

started the physcoanalysis??????. It was all a great learning experience. I

look back now and laugh at it all.

Sherry

> > The pandemic of low blood sugar has swept the western world this past

>decade

> > to become the most fashionable syndrome ever in medical history. It's

> > virtue, for so many people, is that it is an excuse for tiredness-a real

> > cop-out, without being fatal.

>

>Hypoglycemia is a measurable thing you don't " just make it up " as an

> " excuse " for tiredness.

>sheesh.

>

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

October 19, 2000

Hi Tersea, How do you check your pH, is that through the urine. I never

thought of doing that.

The last few years even before I started this diet I started reacting to

fish by feeling quite nausaus so now I just don't eat it apart from deep sea

salmon or raw tuna sometimes. I didn't grow up on fish so whether that has

anything to do with it. We also grew up on a lot of carbo and I was always

so tired and never had the energy for sports. I also have joint problems and

back problems but I had that before I started this diet so have been

wondering if it is all the acid build up in the tissues from what I was

eating at the time, and I have since read it could all a part of menopause

but then I was born with curviture of the spine in 2 places. All the girls

in the family and mom were all born with curviture.I wonder what all our

karma was. At the moment I giving a technique called Pilates a go to see if

it helps.

Sherry

>From: terebrito@...

>Reply-egroups

>egroups

>Subject: Re: hypoglycemia

>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:42:49 EDT

>

>Hi Sherry!

>Yes, I do eat meat but I enjoy mainly white meats and love sea food. I

>have

>some joint trouble, so fish for me is perfect. I check once in a while my

>pH

>also and since it has the tendency to be on the acidic side I try to eat

>besides meat and veg. protein, more alkaline foods. I grew up eating a lot

>of wheat (my father not only owned a wheat mill but also a French Bread

>bakery). In Ecuador our main nuriture is based on corn and potatoes. I

>guess the fact that we ate non processed foods (my mother even made gelatin

>from bones of beef) lots of cereals (Quinoa comes from Ecuador) and herbs

>and

>natural remedies only, balances the fact that we ate the wrong blood type

>foods.

>Bye for now and have a wonderful evening!

>

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

October 20, 2000

> Two comments... 1. all food not just carbohydrates are converted (or

partially > converted) to glucose. And 2. not all hypoglycemics

become hyperglycemics (diabetic).

Thanks for that Crystal.

I was beginning to worry about becoming diabetic there. I think I'll head

for the doctors none the less and have this monitored a bit closer.

Love and light

Colin

April 24, 2009

forgot about thyroid role in blood sugar too....I believe hypo can cause

hypoglyecemia?

I have suspected subclinicl hypo T for a while. My TSH has ranged from 2.5-4

and I know some say it should be under 2. My free T4 is low normal and my

free T3 is normal to a bit high and why have resisted taking Armour due to my

good free T3 levels. But with that TSH number I am inclined to try some armour

as the thyroid could be draining the adrenals and yes the adrenals could be the

main problem and if I treat thyroid first and feel worse, well then I will know

I have more of an adrenal issue. but best is to treat both at same time i

guess. I have also read some with FM have thyroid resistance so we actualy

need more T3 even if our blood says it is fine.

anyway, guess i am just wondering what role hormones might be playing in the

hypoglycemia....i know there are no easy answers as hypoglycmeia can have many

causes....but i gotta try and get some better control over this and yes I east

many small meals and good protein and limited simple sugars...

and if one is hypothyroid and that it does affect sugar levels , would it fit my

pattern of being worse in first half of day or is it that hypoglycemia in

general is just worse at this time regardless of the cause?

thanks

From: Mark London <mrl@...>

Subject: Blood pressure and pain perception. Angiotensin II

and Quercetin effects.

Received: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 8:31 AM

Hi - Recently, I became aware that there is a known relationship between blood

pressure and pain. People with lower blood pressure have a lower tolerance for

pain, and people with high blood pressure have a higher tolerance for pain. For

example, see:

http://archinte. ama-assn. org/cgi/content/ abstract/ 165/8/916

They aren't exactly sure why this is. I have fibromyalgia, and have always

tended to have low blood pressure. Would increasing my blood pressure help lower

my pain?

Interestingly, this study also notes that people who were taking meds for

hypertension, had lowered pain tolerance than those who weren't not taking such

meds, even though both groups had similar levels of blood pressure. ACE

inhibitors and ARBs (such as Benicar), which are used to treat hypertension, can

lower pain tolerance via a method that is independent of it's blood pressure

lowering effect. This is true, even when given to people who have normal blood

pressure. For example, see:

http://www.ijpp. com/vol52_ 1/91-96.pdf

This study theorized that the effect may be due to increased production of

kinins such as bradykinin, which are known to increase pain. It may also be due

to increased levels of Substance P, since ACE breaks down that chemical. The

effect from ARBs, was theorized to be due to kinin production from stimulation

of a different angiotensin II receptor, AT2, that is not blocked by ARBSs. Note,

however, that this study only used a single dose. The effects of chronic use of

these meds has not be studied. These effects on pain might decrease during

chronic use. I.e., chronic use of Benicar has been shown to lower angiotensin II

levels.

I came across this information, because I've been trying to solve a localized

chronic pain problem that I've had for over a year. I have fibromyalgia, and

have had plenty of other localized pain problems that I eventually solved, but

this one has been stubborn. Doctors haven't come up with any good reason for it,

so while I'm continuing to try new treatments, I also decided to see if some

supplement that I was taking could be contributing to the problem. I've been

taking 800 mg of quercetin for more years than I can remember. I started it

because it seemed to help some of my pain problems.

However, a study has shown that quercetin can lower blood pressure in people

with hypertension. The initial study theorized that the effect might be due to

ACE inhibition. Many bioflavonoids have this effect. Thus, this study theorized

the same might be true for quercetin. However, this study did not observe a

blood pressure lowering effect in people with normal blood pressure

(normotensives) . Additionally, lab studies have not show that quercetin

inhibits ACE. Instead, studies have shown that quercetin reduces sodium

retention in the kidneys. This explains why that the study on quercetin only

showed that the blood pressure lowering effect occurred in people with

hypertension, as they were salt sensitive. While I don't have high blood

pressure, t is possible that I'm salt sensitive, since my mother was. All my

life I've kept a low salt diet, mainly because my mother had high blood

pressure. Interestingly, she developed fibromyalgia, after her

hypertension was treated by meds and by reducing salt intake. Could her

fibromyalgia been triggered by doing that? Or at least it could have been a

factor. In any event, I have stopped taking my quercetin, and my pain perception

definitely seems to have been changed for the better. Yet another case of how a

supplement or med can have effects that we aren't aware of.

- Mark

Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8.

Optimized for Get it Now for Free!

__________________________________________________________________

Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your

favourite sites. Download it now

http://ca.toolbar..

April 24, 2009

Rollwagen <kylerollwagen@...> wrote:

>

> forgot about thyroid role in blood sugar too....

> I believe hypo can cause hypoglyecemia?

Many people with low cortisol also have low thyroid,

and low blood sugar goes with low cortisol. Cortisol is a

GLUCOcorticoid.

Untreated hypothyroid stresses the adrenals.

High thyroid also stresses the adrenals.

> I have suspected subclinicl hypo T for a while. My TSH has

> ranged from 2.5-4 and I know some say it should be under 2.

> My free T4 is low normal and my free T3 is normal to a

> bit high and why have resisted taking Armour due to my good

> free T3 levels. But with that TSH number I am inclined

> to try some armour as the thyroid could be draining

> the adrenals and yes the adrenals could be the main problem

> and if I treat thyroid first and feel worse, well then

> I will know I have more of an adrenal issue.

> but best is to treat both at same time i guess.

> I have also read some with FM have thyroid resistance

> so we actualy need more T3 even if our blood says it is fine.

Why not inquire about a trial of a small amount of T4 med,

since your fT3 is already ok.

25-50 mcg T4 might get the TSH under 2.0.

However if you're not getting some basic thyroid nutrition

such as 150 mcg iodine, and 25 mcg selenium, then try

that first and see if the body will normalize with basic

nutrition. (Don't try that if you have thyroid antibodies though,

likely to aggravate autoimmune thyroid disease)

> anyway, guess i am just wondering what role hormones might be

> playing in the hypoglycemia....i know there are no easy

> answers as hypoglycmeia can have many causes....but i gotta

> try and get some better control over this and yes I east

> many small meals and good protein and limited simple sugars...

be sure to get a variety of fats as well for balanced diet

and grounding. Fats add satiety value and digest more slowly.

Important to optimize thyroid, as one symptom to hypoT is

high cholesterol. So you don't want to be eating more fats

til you can address thyroid. Men have more tendency to lay down

plaque in the arteries when hypoT untreated or undertreated,

women are much more protected by their estrogen til menopause.

For more on cortisol, thyroid, other hormones and neurotransmitters

and natural approaches to cortisol -- adrenalfatigue group.

Carol W.

willis_protocols

April 24, 2009

Hi ,

I think you are on the right track. My son has hypoglycemia that is not

diabetes but due to low cortisol. His glucose readings aren't that bad using a

glucose meter but it is still an issue.

It is amazing to me as I learn about the connections between cortisol, thyroid,

hormones, insulin, electrolytes. I think getting these stable would be a big

part of the puzzle for most of us.

I am not that familiar with all of the factors that can cause hypoglycemia but

if I may suggest some books.

Safe uses of Cortisol by Dr. Jefferies

Stop the Thyroid Madness by Jane Bowthorpe

Hypothyroidism Type II by Dr. Mark Starr

Dr Lowe's website (and Metabolic Causes of Fibromyalgia)

About saliva vs urine vs blood cortisol levels. Saliva cortisol measures free

cortisol. Urine and blood measure free and bound cortisol so you don't get a

good feel for the levels that are available in the body to use. Urine is also

tricky because you get total cortisol (free and bound) but there is no

connection to the time of day (all of the urine is collected and tested).

I kept getting endo's that pooh-poohed saliva tests so I went to PubMed and

found over 2000 studies where the testing used for the study was saliva cortisol

(due to the free cortisol levels). These are studies that could have used

urine, blood or saliva and chose saliva, so I think it is a valid form of

testing.

Having said that, I think making certain that you are not on any form of

cortisol for at least 2 weeks before testing and overnighting the samples to

ensure minimal degradation are important things to keep in mind.

Knowing the time of day that you are low can be a big part of the puzzle. I

have adrenal insufficiency with high cortisol in the am and dropping below

normal by 4pm. I discovered that not taking pain medication throughout the

night was causing severe stress on my body and I was pumping cortisol in early

morning to deal with it, therefore exhausting my adrenals by mid afternoon. To

correct this, I began taking Darvocet at night which normalized my cortisol

levels in the morning. Since I am now on a better level of cortisol (for me), I

rarely take Darvocet at night now and I take less daytime pain killers, so it is

working for me. I still have a long way to go but making progress each day,

tweaking along the way.

HTH,

Marti

April 24, 2009

Hi

I was also surprised when i measure my glucose at a point i felt

hypoglycemia.

One of the reasons of this problem could be that when body is low in

cortisol, pituitary detects it and increases acth secretion. Increased acth

secretion leads to increased adrenaline. But not to increased cortisol if

adrenals are tired to produce it.This causes a vicious cycle of increased

acth and adrenaline production.And for some reason body needs more glucose

because of this high adrenaline state.I don't know the exact reason but I

know that, for me, this hypog like thing occurs because of high adrenaline

most of the times.

One night i started having terrible sugar cravings. I have a supplement

called Seriphos which regulates pituitary. I did all i can not to consume

sugar and instead i took 1 seriphos. Half an hour later craving went away.

Of course this may also have other causes that i don't know yet but just

wished to share my experience.

best wishes

cindi

Blood pressure and pain perception. Angiotensin

II and Quercetin effects.

Received: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 8:31 AM

Hi - Recently, I became aware that there is a known relationship between

blood pressure and pain. People with lower blood pressure have a lower

tolerance for pain, and people with high blood pressure have a higher

tolerance for pain. For example, see:

http://archinte. ama-assn. org/cgi/content/ abstract/ 165/8/916

They aren't exactly sure why this is. I have fibromyalgia, and have always

tended to have low blood pressure. Would increasing my blood pressure help

lower my pain?

Interestingly, this study also notes that people who were taking meds for

hypertension, had lowered pain tolerance than those who weren't not taking

such meds, even though both groups had similar levels of blood pressure. ACE

inhibitors and ARBs (such as Benicar), which are used to treat hypertension,

can lower pain tolerance via a method that is independent of it's blood

pressure lowering effect. This is true, even when given to people who have

normal blood pressure. For example, see:

http://www.ijpp. com/vol52_ 1/91-96.pdf

This study theorized that the effect may be due to increased production of

kinins such as bradykinin, which are known to increase pain. It may also be

due to increased levels of Substance P, since ACE breaks down that chemical.

The effect from ARBs, was theorized to be due to kinin production from

stimulation of a different angiotensin II receptor, AT2, that is not blocked

by ARBSs. Note, however, that this study only used a single dose. The

effects of chronic use of these meds has not be studied. These effects on

pain might decrease during chronic use. I.e., chronic use of Benicar has

been shown to lower angiotensin II levels.

I came across this information, because I've been trying to solve a

localized chronic pain problem that I've had for over a year. I have

fibromyalgia, and have had plenty of other localized pain problems that I

eventually solved, but this one has been stubborn. Doctors haven't come up

with any good reason for it, so while I'm continuing to try new treatments,

I also decided to see if some supplement that I was taking could be

contributing to the problem. I've been taking 800 mg of quercetin for more

years than I can remember. I started it because it seemed to help some of my

pain problems.

However, a study has shown that quercetin can lower blood pressure in people

with hypertension. The initial study theorized that the effect might be due

to ACE inhibition. Many bioflavonoids have this effect. Thus, this study

theorized the same might be true for quercetin. However, this study did not

observe a blood pressure lowering effect in people with normal blood

pressure (normotensives) . Additionally, lab studies have not show that

quercetin inhibits ACE. Instead, studies have shown that quercetin reduces

sodium retention in the kidneys. This explains why that the study on

quercetin only showed that the blood pressure lowering effect occurred in

people with hypertension, as they were salt sensitive. While I don't have

high blood pressure, t is possible that I'm salt sensitive, since my mother

was. All my life I've kept a low salt diet, mainly because my mother had

high blood pressure. Interestingly, she developed fibromyalgia, after her

hypertension was treated by meds and by reducing salt intake. Could her

fibromyalgia been triggered by doing that? Or at least it could have been a

factor. In any event, I have stopped taking my quercetin, and my pain

perception definitely seems to have been changed for the better. Yet another

case of how a supplement or med can have effects that we aren't aware of.

- Mark

__________________________________________________________________

The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for

Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads./ca/internetexplorer/

April 25, 2009

is seriphos same as phosphatidyl serine, if so thats one of things in basic

methylation protocol right?

>

> From: Mark London <mrl@...>

> Subject: Blood pressure and pain perception. Angiotensin

> II and Quercetin effects.

>

> Received: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 8:31 AM

>

> Hi - Recently, I became aware that there is a known relationship between

> blood pressure and pain. People with lower blood pressure have a lower

> tolerance for pain, and people with high blood pressure have a higher

> tolerance for pain. For example, see:

>

> http://archinte. ama-assn. org/cgi/content/ abstract/ 165/8/916

>

> They aren't exactly sure why this is. I have fibromyalgia, and have always

> tended to have low blood pressure. Would increasing my blood pressure help

> lower my pain?

>

> Interestingly, this study also notes that people who were taking meds for

> hypertension, had lowered pain tolerance than those who weren't not taking

> such meds, even though both groups had similar levels of blood pressure. ACE

> inhibitors and ARBs (such as Benicar), which are used to treat hypertension,

> can lower pain tolerance via a method that is independent of it's blood

> pressure lowering effect. This is true, even when given to people who have

> normal blood pressure. For example, see:

>

> http://www.ijpp. com/vol52_ 1/91-96.pdf

>

> This study theorized that the effect may be due to increased production of

> kinins such as bradykinin, which are known to increase pain. It may also be

> due to increased levels of Substance P, since ACE breaks down that chemical.

> The effect from ARBs, was theorized to be due to kinin production from

> stimulation of a different angiotensin II receptor, AT2, that is not blocked

> by ARBSs. Note, however, that this study only used a single dose. The

> effects of chronic use of these meds has not be studied. These effects on

> pain might decrease during chronic use. I.e., chronic use of Benicar has

> been shown to lower angiotensin II levels.

>

> I came across this information, because I've been trying to solve a

> localized chronic pain problem that I've had for over a year. I have

> fibromyalgia, and have had plenty of other localized pain problems that I

> eventually solved, but this one has been stubborn. Doctors haven't come up

> with any good reason for it, so while I'm continuing to try new treatments,

> I also decided to see if some supplement that I was taking could be

> contributing to the problem. I've been taking 800 mg of quercetin for more

> years than I can remember. I started it because it seemed to help some of my

> pain problems.

>

> However, a study has shown that quercetin can lower blood pressure in people

> with hypertension. The initial study theorized that the effect might be due

> to ACE inhibition. Many bioflavonoids have this effect. Thus, this study

> theorized the same might be true for quercetin. However, this study did not

> observe a blood pressure lowering effect in people with normal blood

> pressure (normotensives) . Additionally, lab studies have not show that

> quercetin inhibits ACE. Instead, studies have shown that quercetin reduces

> sodium retention in the kidneys. This explains why that the study on

> quercetin only showed that the blood pressure lowering effect occurred in

> people with hypertension, as they were salt sensitive. While I don't have

> high blood pressure, t is possible that I'm salt sensitive, since my mother

> was. All my life I've kept a low salt diet, mainly because my mother had

> high blood pressure. Interestingly, she developed fibromyalgia, after her

> hypertension was treated by meds and by reducing salt intake. Could her

> fibromyalgia been triggered by doing that? Or at least it could have been a

> factor. In any event, I have stopped taking my quercetin, and my pain

> perception definitely seems to have been changed for the better. Yet another

> case of how a supplement or med can have effects that we aren't aware of.

>

> - Mark

>

> __________________________________________________________________

> The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for

> Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads./ca/internetexplorer/

>

April 25, 2009

I am really not sure why phophadityl serine is used in methylation

protocol.Seriphos is phosphorylated Serine. I think it is similar but not

exactly the same with PS. It is used for calming pituitary mainly by

naturopaths.

thanks

cindi

{ModeratorM: This information is in one of Rich's papers on the CFS_Yasko forum

(off the top of my head - I am thinking it is in the July 18th paper). Also,

you can search the archives for additional information. PS is used in other

protocols to lower high coritisol. The amounts used in the Yasko protocol are

thought not to exert this effect due to the small amounts used. More info and

conversation can be found on that forum as it has been discussed various times.}

Re: hypoglycemia

is seriphos same as phosphatidyl serine, if so thats one of things in basic

methylation protocol right?

--- In

April 26, 2009

> {ModeratorM: This information is in one of Rich's papers

> on the CFS_Yasko forum (off the top of my head - I am thinking

> it is in the July 18th paper). Also, you can search the

> archives for additional information. PS is used in other

> protocols to lower high cortisol. The amounts used in the Yasko

> protocol are thought not to exert this effect due to the small

> amounts used. More info and conversation can be found on

> that forum as it has been discussed various times.}

From my experience, PS does lower cortisol (and deplete

TCM kidney yin and kidney yang) in small amounts of 100 mg

(and would further do so in a dose-dependent manner).

[For more info, see my " PS " compilation and commentary,

in Files at url below.]

Carol W.

willis_protocols

April 26, 2009

yes GLUCOcorticoid, cortisol plays a big role in gluconeogenesis in the liver

ya i guess try T4 first......is there a natural one or do i go synthetic

why would one have a low normal T4 at 13 (10-20) yet T3 is high normal at 4.6

(2.6-5.7), these are canadian lab ranges......maybe my T3 is not that high ,

looks like around 65% quartile.....

but still, what would make one convert more T3 from T4?

for what it is worth my reverse t3 from a lab in usa is high normal at .28

ng/ml (.11-.32)

my thyrpid antibodies were negative, but I dont know the actual number so next

dr. visit I will ask I just hope the lab has a value as I hate those labs that

just state " negative "

sometimes I suspect i have antibodies as I get rapid heartbeat for no reason

(100-110) and feel wired a bit....I also dont sleep well and have insomnia, i

would think this a symtom more in hyper thyropid than hypothyroid?

that said pretty much have all the symptoms of hypo too except gaining

weight, it has been stable last few years but I am thin at 145 pounds and 6

feet tall. I also have osteopenia (t score of -1.8) and I am only 39 and a male

too. it is hyperthryroid that can cause bone loss right? of course there could

be umpteen other reasons why I have thin bones....ie. malabsorption, gluten

intolerance, ect......

but ya i will try nutrition for the thyropid first, that is assuming my negaitve

for thyroid antibodies is confirmed...

my high methymalonic acid combined with low normal serum b12 of 200 (150-700)

showed I was b12 deficient so I do suspect malabsorption (although could be

something specific to just b12 absorption as it is the hardest vitamine to

absorb) but still could be a red flag that I might be lacking basic nutrition

as having problems with absorption.

thanks carol!

cheers

>

> forgot about thyroid role in blood sugar too....

> I believe hypo can cause hypoglyecemia?

Many people with low cortisol also have low thyroid,

and low blood sugar goes with low cortisol. Cortisol is a

GLUCOcorticoid.

Untreated hypothyroid stresses the adrenals.

High thyroid also stresses the adrenals.

> I have suspected subclinicl hypo T for a while. My TSH has

> ranged from 2.5-4 and I know some say it should be under 2.

> My free T4 is low normal and my free T3 is normal to a

> bit high and why have resisted taking Armour due to my good

> free T3 levels. But with that TSH number I am inclined

> to try some armour as the thyroid could be draining

> the adrenals and yes the adrenals could be the main problem

> and if I treat thyroid first and feel worse, well then

> I will know I have more of an adrenal issue.

> but best is to treat both at same time i guess.

> I have also read some with FM have thyroid resistance

> so we actualy need more T3 even if our blood says it is fine.

Why not inquire about a trial of a small amount of T4 med,

since your fT3 is already ok.

25-50 mcg T4 might get the TSH under 2.0.

However if you're not getting some basic thyroid nutrition

such as 150 mcg iodine, and 25 mcg selenium, then try

that first and see if the body will normalize with basic

nutrition. (Don't try that if you have thyroid antibodies though,

likely to aggravate autoimmune thyroid disease)

> anyway, guess i am just wondering what role hormones might be

> playing in the hypoglycemia. ...i know there are no easy

> answers as hypoglycmeia can have many causes....but i gotta

> try and get some better control over this and yes I east

> many small meals and good protein and limited simple sugars...

be sure to get a variety of fats as well for balanced diet

and grounding. Fats add satiety value and digest more slowly.

Important to optimize thyroid, as one symptom to hypoT is

high cholesterol. So you don't want to be eating more fats

til you can address thyroid. Men have more tendency to lay down

plaque in the arteries when hypoT untreated or undertreated,

women are much more protected by their estrogen til menopause.

For more on cortisol, thyroid, other hormones and neurotransmitters

and natural approaches to cortisol -- adrenalfatigue group.

Carol W.

http://groups. / group/willis_ protocols

__________________________________________________________________

Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

http://www.flickr.com/gift/

April 26, 2009

thx marti for taking the time to reply

<<Urine and blood measure free and bound cortisol so you don't get a good feel

for the levels that are available in the body to use.>>

so blood result is bound + free?? im confused, i thought it was just bound but

i assume you can get a free cort in blood? everytime in past i got blood cort

it just says cortisol so i assume that is bound ? i mean if they can measure

free thyroid hormones why cant they measure free cortisol in blood?.....i

suppose there is still a disfference between free in blood vs free in saliva

assuming saliva does indeed show tissue levels.....similar to what dr. lowe

believes that FMers have ok free thryroid in blood but not in the tissues....

cheers

From: marti_zavala <marti_zavala@...>

Subject: Re: hypoglycemia

Received: Friday, April 24, 2009, 1:28 AM

Hi ,

I think you are on the right track. My son has hypoglycemia that is not diabetes

but due to low cortisol. His glucose readings aren't that bad using a glucose

meter but it is still an issue.

It is amazing to me as I learn about the connections between cortisol, thyroid,

hormones, insulin, electrolytes. I think getting these stable would be a big

part of the puzzle for most of us.

I am not that familiar with all of the factors that can cause hypoglycemia but

if I may suggest some books.

Safe uses of Cortisol by Dr. Jefferies

Stop the Thyroid Madness by Jane Bowthorpe

Hypothyroidism Type II by Dr. Mark Starr

Dr Lowe's website (and Metabolic Causes of Fibromyalgia)

About saliva vs urine vs blood cortisol levels. Saliva cortisol measures free

cortisol. Urine and blood measure free and bound cortisol so you don't get a

good feel for the levels that are available in the body to use. Urine is also

tricky because you get total cortisol (free and bound) but there is no

connection to the time of day (all of the urine is collected and tested).

I kept getting endo's that pooh-poohed saliva tests so I went to PubMed and

found over 2000 studies where the testing used for the study was saliva cortisol

(due to the free cortisol levels). These are studies that could have used urine,

blood or saliva and chose saliva, so I think it is a valid form of testing.

Having said that, I think making certain that you are not on any form of

cortisol for at least 2 weeks before testing and overnighting the samples to

ensure minimal degradation are important things to keep in mind.

Knowing the time of day that you are low can be a big part of the puzzle. I have

adrenal insufficiency with high cortisol in the am and dropping below normal by

4pm. I discovered that not taking pain medication throughout the night was

causing severe stress on my body and I was pumping cortisol in early morning to

deal with it, therefore exhausting my adrenals by mid afternoon. To correct

this, I began taking Darvocet at night which normalized my cortisol levels in

the morning. Since I am now on a better level of cortisol (for me), I rarely

take Darvocet at night now and I take less daytime pain killers, so it is

working for me. I still have a long way to go but making progress each day,

tweaking along the way.

HTH,

Marti

__________________________________________________________________

Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot

with the All-new . Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail

today or register for free at http://mail..ca

April 27, 2009

thanks for sharing your experience with me Cindi

interesting about the high adreneline cause of hypoG

increased acth leads to increased cortisol i thought, assuming adrenals are

strong enough. but increased acth also increases adreneline heh?, didnt know

that....

but that makes sense and something i considered, even though blood glucose is

normal, the body needs more glucose than normal and this case due to high

adreneline and then why food helps by supplying more glucose.....i wonder if

this applies to sleep as well.....even though my midnight saliva cortisol is

normal, maybe around 4am it is low as 8am reading was low, cause I always wake

up around 4-6 hours after I goto sleep and then have troubles getting back to

sleep, sometimes i wake up wired and anxious and restless, maybe due to high

adrenline due to low cortisol.....then again could be umpteen other reasons too,

ie. low seretonin to name one

geez, just so many things to consider and try and figure out with these

illnesses (FM and ME/CFS), please hurry up researchers!!

cheers

From: Mark London <mrl@.... edu>

Subject: Blood pressure and pain perception. Angiotensin