RE: Optimizing Weight Loss or Inches Lost

[Guest guest]

I hate to say this but after a year post op you are pretty much finished with

what weight you are going to lose. There have been 5 people in my family have

the MGB and every last one of us stopped losing weight at a year post op or

a few months before that. As far as diet and exercise goes if we were so good

at that we would not have had to had the surgery in the first place. It is

just hard to sit here and read all these post about poor weight loss and how

people are going to start dieting and exercise to try to lose more weight (my

daughter included) when I had to do none of that to make goal and if I did I

probably would not of made it to goal oh forget probably not of made I

wouldn't have made it. The simple fact being I could never diet and exercise

and thats why I ended up 280 pounds. Liz

[Guest guest]

, Don't get me wrong I wish you the best of luck but when I look at my

18 year old daughter who had the MGB in 1999 exercising and dieting and she

still has 100 pounds to lose it makes me very sad. I have seen her fail at

this so many times I hate to see her going through this whole thing again but

her problem is now she is starting to gain weight at almost 2 years post op.

Liz

[Guest guest]

I agree, .

I cannot believe that our metabolisms haven't changed somewhat, allowing us

to MAYBE, and see I am stressing MAYBE, be able to stick to an eating and

exercise program better than we ever had been able to in the past.

I also agree that inches are most important....I've lost well, but the inches

are what most make me happy. I'm unhappy with how my inches are doing right

now. So I will TRY to exercise and hit those spots harder and hope it will

work.

I don't believe ANYTHING works right for everyone, but eating healthier and

exercising helps the heart at the very least.....and that makes it worth it

anyhow. My Mom was very thin but died after a triple bypass of lung cancer.

She had all that going right on the outside, but nothing going right INSIDE

of her. So I plan to keep exercising, hoping and trying to do the best I can

to maximize what I have. When it quits, I will then have to reevaluate what

my goal is. If I am satisfied, it will be maintenance time. If I'm NOT

satisified, I will look at what I can do to get satisfied.....be it a

revision, changes in eating and exercise, what have you.

I applaud all of us for encouraging one another during this trek. We are all

here because we had failed at maintaining a reasonable weight. We are all

trying to do the best we can. Some of us are more fortunate, some of us

aren't so lucky. That's all it is~~trial, error, luck. The tool works

better for some than others, that's the bottom line. No need to condemn or

judge.....we just have to ALL look at our own situation and do what needs to

be done to the best of our ability.

If I can say this without upsetting anyone, I'll be happy. Here is what I

have to say:

For those whose weightloss has fallen short of your expectation: It sucks

and I know it because Ive been there and done that. But if you've lost over

50lbs, please try to realize you ARE healthier than you were and take some

solace in that. Maybe you CAN do things you couldn't before. Maybe you've

extended your lifespan by 5 years, or even more. That is worth SOMETHING in

itself. I know my Dad, who died at 48, and my Mom, who died at 61, sure wish

they had SOME kind of operation that would have extended their lives. If

that is all you got, it's still a lot. Sure, search out revisions or make

changes and do all you can to realize your dream, but don't sell yourself or

your health short in the process. You are precious to someone and your being

in their lives means more than a million dollars ever could. Try to remember

that with each disappointment there usually is some good to come out of any

effort.

Hugs

in Ark

[Guest guest]

Good post !!!

[Guest guest]

Go Manda!

Man I want a buzz from exercising! Haven't had one yet but I will get one!

If it kills me! HAHAHA

Let us know how you like the Yoga....we have a class at Gold's called " Mind,

Body & Spirit " and it is yoga and stretching and I'm gonna try it too!

HUGS

in Ark

[Guest guest]

Janice,

Some one once told me a better way to look at exercise - like " play " .

When we were little and we went outside and ran around all day we were

ultimately exercising --- but we didn't call it that. You obviously

hate the treadmill - SO DO I!! My answer - I will not walk on the

treadmill. I will however go take a walk in a park, around the lake, in

a nice neighborhood, etc. I also have a recumbent bike which is much

better to me than the treadmill. I also have a " fitness flier " which I

also much prefer to the treadmill for some reason. My favorite thing

though is going to Curves. I actually enjoy going there and exercising

for 30 minutes. Try something else -- go to an aerobics class where

there is music if that is something you would like. Try to find a place

to walk that is preferable to the treadmill. Do whatever --- but try

something different. You might actually find something that you

" enjoy " !

in GA

Optimizing Weight Loss or Inches Lost

I have read with interest the suggestions on optimizing weight loss.

Honestly, I don't care about the pounds lost as much as I care about the

inches lost. I don't care what number is on the scale so much as how

large I

am. Does that make sense? In other words I'd rather lose inches than

lose

lbs. - well really I'd rather lose both but if given a choice I'd

rather

lose inches.

SOOOOO - what exercises are best to lose inches?

I despise, detest, abhor exercise - but I do it. To me it is a total

waste

of my time but I do it anyway because Dr. R says we need to in order to

optimize weight loss. I wish I loved exercise like many of you. I

almost

wish I had trouble eating various foods. Maybe I'd lose more weight.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, I can eat anything at all, bread, red

meat,

etc., etc. just in small amounts.

I know it is twisted logic but I wonder if I would lose more weight if I

truly loved the exercise I do instead of dread every single solitary

second.

I find myself saying " only 1/2 hour to go on the treadmill " , " only 15

minutes

left to go on the treadmill " , etc.

I also wonder if I would lose more weight if I couldn't eat red meat or

bread, etc. Not that I eat it everyday.

I guess we all second guess ourselves wondering why we don't lose

faster.

But for you exercise experts - please give me some suggestions on how to

optimize loss of inches through exercise.

Thanks for your help.

Janice

[Guest guest]

I agree with . If you're a walking type, walk OUTSIDE if the weather

is at all agreeable. There's so much more to see and hear when you're

outside that you hardly realize how long you've been walking.

JonBNBeth

[Guest guest]

> JonBNBeth

>

What a visual!

I can just see Jon prancing around in pantyhose and high heels

bitchin about slow weight loss!

LOLOLOL

BethBNBeth

[Guest guest]

yes, but if that is the only way for me to make it, I can at least try, even

though I wasn't able to keep the weight off in the past, I WAS successful in

dieting and if I don't gain it back, then it will work to my advantage.

Don't forget you never fail if you keep on trying!

vellucci

Re: Optimizing Weight Loss or Inches Lost

I hate to say this but after a year post op you are pretty much finished

with

what weight you are going to lose. There have been 5 people in my family

have

the MGB and every last one of us stopped losing weight at a year post op or

a few months before that. As far as diet and exercise goes if we were so

good

at that we would not have had to had the surgery in the first place. It is

just hard to sit here and read all these post about poor weight loss and how

people are going to start dieting and exercise to try to lose more weight

(my

daughter included) when I had to do none of that to make goal and if I did I

probably would not of made it to goal oh forget probably not of made I

wouldn't have made it. The simple fact being I could never diet and exercise

and thats why I ended up 280 pounds. Liz

[Guest guest]

Hey, it may be a bad thing to you but to some people it's a part-time job.

S

Re: Optimizing Weight Loss or Inches Lost

> JonBNBeth

>

What a visual!

I can just see Jon prancing around in pantyhose and high heels

bitchin about slow weight loss!

LOLOLOL

BethBNBeth

[Guest guest]

Liz,

I really feel for your daughter and I feel for you. I know that you are

on one hand overjoyed at reaching your goal but you see the pain of your

daughter having not met hers.

I do however disagree that " diet and exercise " won't help me attain my

goals. I am about 10-1/2 months postop and am down 99.9 pounds. I have

been and continue to be a Weight Watcher's member. When I first had

surgery and was on " regular " foods " consistently I began journaling my

food and was amazed that I was eating within my WW points range. I know

that there is " supposedly " a malabsorption that occurs with the

intestinal portion of the bypass but I don't rely on that. I stay

within my points range for what I actually eat. Some days I even go

over which amazed me considering the supposed size of our pouch. I am

telling you this because I believe this will work for me --- I have

always thought that I would need to " diet and exercise " in order to

reach my goal. I'm thrilled for you that you didn't have to --- but I

went into this thinking that I probably would have to (don't know why --

that's just what I thought).

That said --- being on WW and staying " on program " is no longer the

chore that it once was. I basically eat what I want and when I journal

I find that I am pretty close to my points range on a daily basis. The

reason I do this is simple ---- I believe that if I stay within my

points range from a scientific standpoint (not even taking into account

my bypass) that I will continue to lose weight (even if it is slowly)

until I reach my goal weight. I have only been exercise for two months

but I am doing that for its metabolic effects but much more importantly

for its strength building and toning effects.

I think this is right for me. Do I consider myself on a " diet " --- NO!

I consider myself having made lifelong dietary adjustments in the foods

that I eat and the amounts that I eat. Nothing is off limits in

moderation for me. Will it work for everyone - I can't answer that. I

can only say that I believe it will work for me. Of course --- in six

months I may be posting saying that I didn't get to my goal and if I do

I will live with that but I will have given it my all in the process.

Best of luck to your daughter --- I have you find a solution for her (I

know what it is to be overweight at that age)!

in GA

10/04/00

281.5/181.6/a size 10 or so (whatever weight that is!)

Re: Optimizing Weight Loss or Inches Lost

I hate to say this but after a year post op you are pretty much finished

with

what weight you are going to lose. There have been 5 people in my family

have

the MGB and every last one of us stopped losing weight at a year post

op or

a few months before that. As far as diet and exercise goes if we were so

good

at that we would not have had to had the surgery in the first place. It

is

just hard to sit here and read all these post about poor weight loss and

how

people are going to start dieting and exercise to try to lose more

weight (my

daughter included) when I had to do none of that to make goal and if I

did I

probably would not of made it to goal oh forget probably not of made I

wouldn't have made it. The simple fact being I could never diet and

exercise

and thats why I ended up 280 pounds. Liz

[Guest guest]

I wonder if she needs a different diet and/or exercise program? I don't

know, but something different might work for her?

Re: Optimizing Weight Loss or Inches Lost

, Don't get me wrong I wish you the best of luck but when I look at my

18 year old daughter who had the MGB in 1999 exercising and dieting and she

still has 100 pounds to lose it makes me very sad. I have seen her fail at

this so many times I hate to see her going through this whole thing again

but

her problem is now she is starting to gain weight at almost 2 years post op.

Liz

[Guest guest]

Janice,

I can't explain it, but I start getting a buzz about 25 minutes

into the elliptical machine. On Saturday I had such a good buzz

going on that I even skipped lifting weights and did another 35

minute course on the machine. I understand that these " highs " are

more frequent in women than men. I used to abhor exercise also, and

I noticed that when my heart got fit, I enjoyed exercise even more.

I don't struggle to breath any longer, my heart doesn't feel like it

is pounding out of my chest. I've had to up my resistance on the

machines I am on because it is taking me longer to reach my target

heart rate. Perhaps this is exactly what Pat is talking about, my

body is evolving around the exercise, making me work harder in order

to get the benefits that I want. I don't get my exercise " high "

every time I exercise. Some days I am exactly like you describe,

only 5 more minutes... etc. My husband has started making excuses

not to go to the gym, so I went without him, the next time we were

set to go, he was ready without me even saying anything. I played

hookie from work today, so I won't be going to the gym Several

ladies at work joined with me. But I'll be unemployed after next

week, so I'll be able to go as often as I want. I've signed up for

Yoga! Yeah.

manda

PS, I totally agree with the inches vs lbs. I weight every day,

several times a day (no peeking ) and when the thing doesn't

budge, and it seldom does, I don't care because my clothes are

getting looser and looser.

> I have read with interest the suggestions on optimizing weight loss.

>

> Honestly, I don't care about the pounds lost as much as I care

about the

> inches lost. I don't care what number is on the scale so much as

how large I

> am. Does that make sense? In other words I'd rather lose inches

than lose

> lbs. - well really I'd rather lose both but if given a choice I'd

rather

> lose inches.

>

> SOOOOO - what exercises are best to lose inches?

>

> I despise, detest, abhor exercise - but I do it. To me it is a

total waste

> of my time but I do it anyway because Dr. R says we need to in

order to

> optimize weight loss. I wish I loved exercise like many of you. I

almost

> wish I had trouble eating various foods. Maybe I'd lose more

weight.

> Fortunately, or unfortunately, I can eat anything at all, bread,

red meat,

> etc., etc. just in small amounts.

>

> I know it is twisted logic but I wonder if I would lose more weight

if I

> truly loved the exercise I do instead of dread every single

solitary second.

> I find myself saying " only 1/2 hour to go on the treadmill " , " only

15 minutes

> left to go on the treadmill " , etc.

>

> I also wonder if I would lose more weight if I couldn't eat red

meat or

> bread, etc. Not that I eat it everyday.

>

> I guess we all second guess ourselves wondering why we don't lose

faster.

>

> But for you exercise experts - please give me some suggestions on

how to

> optimize loss of inches through exercise.

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

> Janice

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

One of the keys for me is to just get out of the house. I had ever

intention of dancing with today, but when I got down

stairs (my tv is in the dogs room) I had to sweep the floor, and

then I had to clean litter boxes, and then sweep the cat room, and

then do the laundry, and then clean out the bathtub. I never

exercise effectively at home. Now, I'd rather exercise inside sans

bugs and heat, but walking outside is GREAT. If you haven't tried an

elliptical machine, I'd suggest it, they are wonderful! A little

uncomfortable the first 5 minutes, but once you get the hang of it

its great!

manda

> I agree with . If you're a walking type, walk OUTSIDE if the

weather

> is at all agreeable. There's so much more to see and hear when

you're

> outside that you hardly realize how long you've been walking.

>

> JonBNBeth

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

nicely said susan. Also when I get that bad depression and want to eat

everything in a big binge I CAN'T and I am sooooooooo happy for that!

Re: Optimizing Weight Loss or Inches Lost

I agree, .

I cannot believe that our metabolisms haven't changed somewhat, allowing us

to MAYBE, and see I am stressing MAYBE, be able to stick to an eating and

exercise program better than we ever had been able to in the past.

I also agree that inches are most important....I've lost well, but the

inches

are what most make me happy. I'm unhappy with how my inches are doing right

now. So I will TRY to exercise and hit those spots harder and hope it will

work.

I don't believe ANYTHING works right for everyone, but eating healthier and

exercising helps the heart at the very least.....and that makes it worth it

anyhow. My Mom was very thin but died after a triple bypass of lung cancer.

She had all that going right on the outside, but nothing going right INSIDE

of her. So I plan to keep exercising, hoping and trying to do the best I

can

to maximize what I have. When it quits, I will then have to reevaluate what

my goal is. If I am satisfied, it will be maintenance time. If I'm NOT

satisified, I will look at what I can do to get satisfied.....be it a

revision, changes in eating and exercise, what have you.

I applaud all of us for encouraging one another during this trek. We are

all

here because we had failed at maintaining a reasonable weight. We are all

trying to do the best we can. Some of us are more fortunate, some of us

aren't so lucky. That's all it is~~trial, error, luck. The tool works

better for some than others, that's the bottom line. No need to condemn or

judge.....we just have to ALL look at our own situation and do what needs to

be done to the best of our ability.

If I can say this without upsetting anyone, I'll be happy. Here is what I

have to say:

For those whose weightloss has fallen short of your expectation: It sucks

and I know it because Ive been there and done that. But if you've lost over

50lbs, please try to realize you ARE healthier than you were and take some

solace in that. Maybe you CAN do things you couldn't before. Maybe you've

extended your lifespan by 5 years, or even more. That is worth SOMETHING in

itself. I know my Dad, who died at 48, and my Mom, who died at 61, sure

wish

they had SOME kind of operation that would have extended their lives. If

that is all you got, it's still a lot. Sure, search out revisions or make

changes and do all you can to realize your dream, but don't sell yourself or

your health short in the process. You are precious to someone and your

being

in their lives means more than a million dollars ever could. Try to

remember

that with each disappointment there usually is some good to come out of any

effort.

Hugs

in Ark

[Guest guest]

Most trainers use some form of circuit training, with resistance training

(weights) to build muscles that will burn more calories, and some aerobics for

cardiac health. They vary the exercise from time to time, or do it in a

different sequence to maximize results. There are lots of good personal

trainers, but also some that don't know much. There is no standard for calling

yourself a personal trainer in most locations.

Research in a good library, or in and Noble or similar book store, is a

good place to begin learning. Many colleges have classes for people to learn

this.

Pat

Optimizing Weight Loss or Inches Lost

I have read with interest the suggestions on optimizing weight loss.

Honestly, I don't care about the pounds lost as much as I care about the

inches lost. I don't care what number is on the scale so much as how large I

am. Does that make sense? In other words I'd rather lose inches than lose

lbs. - well really I'd rather lose both but if given a choice I'd rather

lose inches.

SOOOOO - what exercises are best to lose inches?

I despise, detest, abhor exercise - but I do it. To me it is a total waste

of my time but I do it anyway because Dr. R says we need to in order to

optimize weight loss. I wish I loved exercise like many of you. I almost

wish I had trouble eating various foods. Maybe I'd lose more weight.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, I can eat anything at all, bread, red meat,

etc., etc. just in small amounts.

I know it is twisted logic but I wonder if I would lose more weight if I

truly loved the exercise I do instead of dread every single solitary second.

I find myself saying " only 1/2 hour to go on the treadmill " , " only 15 minutes

left to go on the treadmill " , etc.

I also wonder if I would lose more weight if I couldn't eat red meat or

bread, etc. Not that I eat it everyday.

I guess we all second guess ourselves wondering why we don't lose faster.

But for you exercise experts - please give me some suggestions on how to

optimize loss of inches through exercise.

Thanks for your help.

Janice

[Guest guest]

hey ,

My mamma told me.....if at first you dont suceed...try

try again.....besides a few other things...like the

song...my mamma told me...you better shop around..ha

ha...remember that one.?

anyhow Im keeping trying with you...so lets do it!!!

We can be losers together..

Jeanne in NY

--- Vellucci <LINDA.VELLUCCI@...>

wrote:

> yes, but if that is the only way for me to make it,

> I can at least try, even

> though I wasn't able to keep the weight off in the

> past, I WAS successful in

> dieting and if I don't gain it back, then it will

> work to my advantage.

> Don't forget you never fail if you keep on trying!

> vellucci

>

> Re: Optimizing Weight Loss or

> Inches Lost

>

>

> I hate to say this but after a year post op you are

> pretty much finished

> with

> what weight you are going to lose. There have been 5

> people in my family

> have

> the MGB and every last one of us stopped losing

> weight at a year post op or

>

> a few months before that. As far as diet and

> exercise goes if we were so

> good

> at that we would not have had to had the surgery in

> the first place. It is

> just hard to sit here and read all these post about

> poor weight loss and how

>

> people are going to start dieting and exercise to

> try to lose more weight

> (my

> daughter included) when I had to do none of that to

> make goal and if I did I

>

> probably would not of made it to goal oh forget

> probably not of made I

> wouldn't have made it. The simple fact being I could

> never diet and exercise

>

> and thats why I ended up 280 pounds. Liz

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey gang,

I actually made it through the day yesterday eating all healthy stuff and

you know what, I couldn't even finish what I had planned! I used the old

weight watchers diet that I used 3 years ago to loose 45 lbs, it is protein,

dairy, carbs and fruits, veggies and olive oil is the only fat, if anyone is

interested, I'd be happy to share the details. Anyway, I am telling myself

" one day at a time " like I learned at overeaters anoymous. So, wish me luck

pals!

Vellucci

286/280/191/135 (God willing and the creek don't rise)

Re: Optimizing Weight Loss or

> Inches Lost

>

>

> I hate to say this but after a year post op you are

> pretty much finished

> with

> what weight you are going to lose. There have been 5

> people in my family

> have

> the MGB and every last one of us stopped losing

> weight at a year post op or

>

> a few months before that. As far as diet and

> exercise goes if we were so

> good

> at that we would not have had to had the surgery in

> the first place. It is

> just hard to sit here and read all these post about

> poor weight loss and how

>

> people are going to start dieting and exercise to

> try to lose more weight

> (my

> daughter included) when I had to do none of that to

> make goal and if I did I

>

> probably would not of made it to goal oh forget

> probably not of made I

> wouldn't have made it. The simple fact being I could

> never diet and exercise

>

> and thats why I ended up 280 pounds. Liz

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Have you considered actually going back to WW for a while? I find

attending the meetings helps me a great deal with all the other issues

associated with weight control. The special right now is $152 for 09/01

through the end of the year. The news points program is MUCH better

than the old program! Everything (including junk food) has a points

value and nothing is off limits - as long as you stay within your

points. It works for me!

in GA

Re: Optimizing Weight Loss or

> Inches Lost

>

>

> I hate to say this but after a year post op you are

> pretty much finished

> with

> what weight you are going to lose. There have been 5

> people in my family

> have

> the MGB and every last one of us stopped losing

> weight at a year post op or

>

> a few months before that. As far as diet and

> exercise goes if we were so

> good

> at that we would not have had to had the surgery in

> the first place. It is

> just hard to sit here and read all these post about

> poor weight loss and how

>

> people are going to start dieting and exercise to

> try to lose more weight

> (my

> daughter included) when I had to do none of that to

> make goal and if I did I

>

> probably would not of made it to goal oh forget

> probably not of made I

> wouldn't have made it. The simple fact being I could

> never diet and exercise

>

> and thats why I ended up 280 pounds. Liz

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good Luck One day at a time is a gr8t start!!

Kathy

At 09:01 AM 8/21/2001 -0400, you wrote:

>Hey gang,

>I actually made it through the day yesterday eating all healthy stuff and

>you know what, I couldn't even finish what I had planned! I used the old

>weight watchers diet that I used 3 years ago to loose 45 lbs, it is protein,

>dairy, carbs and fruits, veggies and olive oil is the only fat, if anyone is

>interested, I'd be happy to share the details. Anyway, I am telling myself

> " one day at a time " like I learned at overeaters anoymous. So, wish me luck

>pals!

> Vellucci

>286/280/191/135 (God willing and the creek don't rise)

>

> Re: Optimizing Weight Loss or

> > Inches Lost

> >

> >

> > I hate to say this but after a year post op you are

> > pretty much finished

> > with

> > what weight you are going to lose. There have been 5

> > people in my family

> > have

> > the MGB and every last one of us stopped losing

> > weight at a year post op or

> >

> > a few months before that. As far as diet and

> > exercise goes if we were so

> > good

> > at that we would not have had to had the surgery in

> > the first place. It is

> > just hard to sit here and read all these post about

> > poor weight loss and how

> >

> > people are going to start dieting and exercise to

> > try to lose more weight

> > (my

> > daughter included) when I had to do none of that to

> > make goal and if I did I

> >

> > probably would not of made it to goal oh forget

> > probably not of made I

> > wouldn't have made it. The simple fact being I could

> > never diet and exercise

> >

> > and thats why I ended up 280 pounds. Liz

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

thanks Kathy, that's really all we can work on, isn't it?

Re: Optimizing Weight Loss or

> > Inches Lost

> >

> >

> > I hate to say this but after a year post op you are

> > pretty much finished

> > with

> > what weight you are going to lose. There have been 5

> > people in my family

> > have

> > the MGB and every last one of us stopped losing

> > weight at a year post op or

> >

> > a few months before that. As far as diet and

> > exercise goes if we were so

> > good

> > at that we would not have had to had the surgery in

> > the first place. It is

> > just hard to sit here and read all these post about

> > poor weight loss and how

> >

> > people are going to start dieting and exercise to

> > try to lose more weight

> > (my

> > daughter included) when I had to do none of that to

> > make goal and if I did I

> >

> > probably would not of made it to goal oh forget

> > probably not of made I

> > wouldn't have made it. The simple fact being I could

> > never diet and exercise

> >

> > and thats why I ended up 280 pounds. Liz

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

<<Anyway, I am telling myself

" one day at a time " like I learned at overeaters anoymous. So, wish me luck

pals!

Vellucci>>

,

Good for YOU. Take charge of your destiny is what I say. I can tell ya that

losing all this significant weight has enabled me to go further thr the

" Normal " methods of weight loss. I know it is slow going for me now but I am

determined to do it. I actually FEEL so much better about myself now that I

have the self-confidence and tenacity to do it. If I had over 100 lbs left I

would feel differently as some of our dear folks have expressed. For someone

with 60-maybe even 70 lbs to lose, I now see that as do-able (FOR ME) with

all the thrill of how I feel. I have lost SO much that it is enevitable that

I be happy with myself and thus have the positive attitude needed to go

further. Make sense?

CK

[Guest guest]

Go !

WOO HOO! It's great to eat good stuff and know you are doing your body such

good! I have been offline a few days thanks to a phone cable being cut in

the area....so glad to be back and reading such good positive stuff!

HUGS

in Ark

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

Would be very interested in your plan.

Thanks,

a Wyatt

[Guest guest]

WOO HOOO 190 is GREAT! GOOD FOR YOU!

HUGS

in ark