Re: Beginning of School is a Mixed Blessing

[Guest guest]

ack ... I'll do my best to look up the info later today (our first day of school as well) but there is a case in cleveland area where a child w/ a disability was made to sign a contract at school, the family ended up at a hearing.

I *think* Nessa Segal (spelling?) was the representing atty. Give me a little time we are in the process of having our bathroom renovated and things are a little crazy here! And IMO I wouldn't sign the contract (yet, at least)

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone who has weighed in on this. I did not sign the contracts, and I have no intention of doing so. Instead, I attached a copy of his IEP to it -- the teacher mentioned on Monday that she didn't have a copy yet. I stated that I couldn't sign it, and I didn't feel comfortable with him signing it, because he will likely need help from his aide with remembering his assignments, and the like -- all that is detailed in his IEP.

Yes, you are all right -- I don't want to set the bar too low for him, and I don't want to let him make excuses for not doing homework or obeying school rules. I'm not the type that will let him get away with that! Oh, he'll do what he needs to do...but I'm told the IEP supercedes everything else. The teacher needs to understand that.

My concern continues to be that if my boy says "I don't want to do that" in class, it may be because he needs a sensory break, or that it really is beyond his ability, or that he could do part of it, but needs help with some aspect. However, what if she (the teacher) considers that insubordination? Then he could find himself in serious disciplinary trouble over something that is related to his disorder. If I sign that contract, I feel like I'm giving her permission to do that. And that, I won't do. His disorder isn't his fault. He shouldn't be punished for it.

By the way, she is used to teaching 3rd and 4th graders. I can definitely see that. My first impression is that she is much more suited for older children. Thanks for that Bill of Rights for Misunderstood Children, a. I may need that!

I sent that in today...we'll see what happens.

I would also appreciate any info on that case involving Nessa Siegel. Whenever you can get to that, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks again!

--Suzanne

[Guest guest]

My first reaction is to get a different teacher. I have a feeling that she WILL be trouble all year if she starts out the year like this with full knowledge of your child's issues. She seems to not be one who can "bend" and make changes when necessary. And, even if she does "change her rules" for your child, I don'think it would be done in the best way - other kids may be aware and it could cause problems.

Just my two cents.....

b.

----- Original Message -----

From:

Sent: 8/23/2006 3:20:38 AM

Subject: [ ] Beginning of School is a Mixed Blessing

Oh, I don't know about everyone else, but I am BURIED under a mountain of paperwork that the school just gave us yesterday...my oldest son goes to school TOMORROW. Sigh....

Here's my biggest question...I met his new teacher, and I'm not sure she has much, if any, experience in working with children with developmental disabilities. Great. That's not what I ordered at the IEP, and believe me, I'll send it back if I have to!!! But, she actually wants the children to sign "contracts" stating they will obey all classroom rules and understand the consequences they will have to incur if they break the classroom rules; and one other one about homework. There are three of these "contracts" in total. The above two, I have a problem with for a few reasons: A) He has Autism and ADHD. He has a very hard time understanding cause and effect...action and reaction...if you do this, then this will happen. Trust me, I've tested the theory; I can't sign something stating that homework completion will not be a problem and that he will be in charge of remembering and organizing all of his assignments (hello!...did I mention he has ADHD and Asperger's?!?!?!??) when I don't know that with any degree of certainty; and C) He's not even 7 years old!!!! And that's his chronological age -- not his developmental age!!! (Again, did she get the memo that he has developmental disabilities?!?!!? I know she knows, because I told her myself and so did his teacher from last year!) How can he be expected to sign these "contracts?!?!?!?" Yeah, both he and I are supposed to sign them. Yes, I know that they're not legally binding, but still...it's like asking a 4 year old to do all of this.

Does this seem irrational to anyone else? Or is it just me?

Ugh...it was a long summer, because my two Autistic boys couldn't understand why they weren't in school. Now, I have a feeling it's going to be a very long year.

--Suzanne

[Guest guest]

Suzanne - How interesting that the teacher wants 6 year olds to sign

contracts. Contracts probably worked for her once, and now she's not

letting it go. But it certainly is not a bad idea to let children know what

is expected of them and what the consequences are up front. I'd be

accepting of them as long as they are not used as guilt trips, ie: " You

promised you'd do your homework and today you haven't! You broke your

promise! " - that would be the worst outcome.

But you say your son isn't capable of following this particular teacher's

contracts. I know what you mean! My son is seven now, and last year, I

really had no clue as to what homework he had. I had to hope the necessary

papers were put into his folder and his folder was put into his bookbag.

And when he did do his homework and it was put into his bookbag, there was

no guarantee it would end up in the teacher's in box. Many times, it came

home the following day. When I asked Bobby about his day, I wouldn't get

much of a response, even when I prompted him, so he really couldn't tell me

if he had L.A. homework or the like.

Perhaps a conversation with the teacher explaining what your son has shown

he can and cannot do would be in order so that you could come up with

alternate contracts. Perhaps his contract could start at a skill he has

already mastered, such as, " When the teacher gives me a homework paper, I

will put it in my bookbag. " The teacher could verify that he does this -

(though my son still has problems with this - he gets so distracted on the

way to the bookbag.) Once your son is doing this consistantly, a new

contract would be drafted to include the next step, such as, " I will

complete my homework paper at home " or " I will tell my mom that I have

homework. " You and the teacher would have to have a communication notebook

so that you would know what days your son had homework. That didn't work

for us last year :-P His first sp ed teacher was a bit disorganized (?), so

the notebook would disappear after a week or so. His second sp ed teacher

was much better at the communication thing. Don't get me wrong - I like

them both - it's just a joy to have specialist who lets you know what's

going on. BTW, my son is in the reg ed classroom, but he has a sp ed

teacher for ~ 30 min a day, and she's the one in charge of the notebook,

because the reg ed teacher is too busy.

The only way I could sign the below contracts is if the teacher signed a

contract that she would communicate with me daily as to what my son needed

to do to fulfill her contracts. That way I could assist my son in

performing his duties. I don't know about your son, but there is no way my

son could do it on his own, and I won't set my son up for failure. A child

who is blind shouldn't sign a contract that he will read a book a day

without a clause in the contract that says the school will supply all

necessary books in Braille. The blind child would absolutely fail without

the Braille accommodation. Your son's teacher's contracts need similar

clauses/alterations that delineate what accommodations your son needs so

that he can fulfill his obligations. If the teacher signs that contract

stating she will let you know ALL of your son's duties EVERY day, and your

son fails to complete an assignment that she did not inform you of, then

your son should have ANY consequence. - My 2 cents worth.

But I would also be concerned that I would be setting my sights too low -

that my expectations are so low that I am hindering my son's development.

All 3 of my children have surprised me over the years with what they know,

with their abilities, etc. Perhaps your son will rise to the expectation?

I think we need to at least consider the possibility.

Suzanne, I'm sure you will come up with a workable plan. Please let us know

how it ends up!!

Chris

P.S. Don't fret over a teacher with not much experience with developmental

delays. As long as she's willing to be flexible and to learn more about

Asperger's, then you're in good shape. Almost everyone who's worked with my

son has said, " I've never had a student with autism before. " In the past, I

have created a 2 page sheet describing my son's characteristics and

abilities. Last year, I gave his first grade teacher a book about his

disability, not expecting her to read it and know it, but that she would

have a reference book when she needed it. I also gave her all my numbers so

she could call at any time. She never did.

**************************************

....Here's my biggest question...I met his new teacher, and I'm not sure she

has

much, if any, experience in working with children with developmental

disabilities. Great. That's not what I ordered at the IEP, and believe me,

I'll

send it back if I have to!!! But, she actually wants the children to sign

" contracts " stating they will obey all classroom rules and understand the

consequences they will have to incur if they break the classroom rules; and

one

other one about homework. There are three of these " contracts " in total. The

above two, I have a problem with for a few reasons: A) He has Autism and

ADHD.

He has a very hard time understanding cause and effect...action and

reaction...if you do this, then this will happen. Trust me, I've tested the

theory;

I can't sign something stating that homework completion will not be a

problem and that he will be in charge of remembering and organizing all of

his

assignments (hello!...did I mention he has ADHD and Asperger's?!?!?!??) when

I

don't know that with any degree of certainty; and C) He's not even 7 years

old!!!! And that's his chronological age -- not his developmental age!!!

(Again, did she get the memo that he has developmental disabilities?!?!!? I

know she knows, because I told her myself and so did his teacher from last

year!) How can he be expected to sign these " contracts?!?!?!? " Yeah, both he

and

I are supposed to sign them. Yes, I know that they're not legally binding,

but still...it's like asking a 4 year old to do all of this.

Does this seem irrational to anyone else? Or is it just me?....

[Guest guest]

Hi!

I'm about to get buried myself, as the IEP and orientation are next week for us...

Contract? Well, I guess it's a sign of the times. When I was in Catholic school the nuns were allowed to whip your butt, so there were no problems...

Because there is no fear I guess contracts is the only non-physical way of kicking the child's rear. THat way the teacher can say, "Well, see you signed it...!" to prevent the parents from raising hell. Actually it's a clever idea on the part of the teacher, as it'll prevent the ACLU from beating down on her door...ha, ha....

I think if you talk to her and find out if there is a Special Needs contract you'll be good...I wouldn't sign anything until you get something in writing from her in the way of an adenum to the contract.

is only in preschool, but if we get a contract I'll let you know...

Blessings,

Patti

----- Original Message ----From: SBShaft@...To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:54:48 PMSubject: [ ] Beginning of School is a Mixed Blessing

Oh, I don't know about everyone else, but I am BURIED under a mountain of paperwork that the school just gave us yesterday... my oldest son goes to school TOMORROW. Sigh....

Here's my biggest question...I met his new teacher, and I'm not sure she has much, if any, experience in working with children with developmental disabilities. Great. That's not what I ordered at the IEP, and believe me, I'll send it back if I have to!!! But, she actually wants the children to sign "contracts" stating they will obey all classroom rules and understand the consequences they will have to incur if they break the classroom rules; and one other one about homework. There are three of these "contracts" in total. The above two, I have a problem with for a few reasons: A) He has Autism and ADHD. He has a very hard time understanding cause and effect...action and reaction...if you do this, then this will happen. Trust me, I've tested the theory; I can't sign something stating that homework completion will not be a problem and that he will be in charge of remembering and organizing all of his assignments

(hello!...did I mention he has ADHD and Asperger's?! ?!?!??) when I don't know that with any degree of certainty; and C) He's not even 7 years old!!!! And that's his chronological age -- not his developmental age!!! (Again, did she get the memo that he has developmental disabilities? !?!!? I know she knows, because I told her myself and so did his teacher from last year!) How can he be expected to sign these "contracts?! ?!?!?" Yeah, both he and I are supposed to sign them. Yes, I know that they're not legally binding, but still...it's like asking a 4 year old to do all of this.

Does this seem irrational to anyone else? Or is it just me?

Ugh...it was a long summer, because my two Autistic boys couldn't understand why they weren't in school. Now, I have a feeling it's going to be a very long year.

--Suzanne

[Guest guest]

I'm glad you mentioned this notebook thing. I'm new to the area and never put my son on the bus before(he's 4) and am real nervous about all this. The coordinator mentioned that, it's a notebook that goes back and forth. I asked why not email? THat'd be faster and sure to get here...

And I like your idea that they might surprise you. My son is the same way, I'll think he can't do it, much like Suzanne, I don't know if could follow all those rules.

However, our teacher last year was brand new to educating, and she too, never had autistic kids, and she was WONDERFUL with ! She really paid attention to him and made sure the other kids worked around his problems...

So, there is hope! This would be a good learning experience for all of you....

Patti

----- Original Message ----From: The Marotta Family <marottafamily@...> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:26:26 AMSubject: [ ] Re: Beginning of School is a Mixed Blessing

Suzanne - How interesting that the teacher wants 6 year olds to sign contracts. Contracts probably worked for her once, and now she's not letting it go. But it certainly is not a bad idea to let children know what is expected of them and what the consequences are up front. I'd be accepting of them as long as they are not used as guilt trips, ie: "You promised you'd do your homework and today you haven't! You broke your promise!" - that would be the worst outcome.But you say your son isn't capable of following this particular teacher's contracts. I know what you mean! My son is seven now, and last year, I really had no clue as to what homework he had. I had to hope the necessary papers were put into his folder and his folder was put into his bookbag. And when he did do his homework and it was put into his bookbag, there was no guarantee it would end up in the teacher's in box. Many times, it came home the following

day. When I asked Bobby about his day, I wouldn't get much of a response, even when I prompted him, so he really couldn't tell me if he had L.A. homework or the like.Perhaps a conversation with the teacher explaining what your son has shown he can and cannot do would be in order so that you could come up with alternate contracts. Perhaps his contract could start at a skill he has already mastered, such as, "When the teacher gives me a homework paper, I will put it in my bookbag." The teacher could verify that he does this - (though my son still has problems with this - he gets so distracted on the way to the bookbag.) Once your son is doing this consistantly, a new contract would be drafted to include the next step, such as, "I will complete my homework paper at home" or "I will tell my mom that I have homework." You and the teacher would have to have a communication notebook so that you would know what days your son

had homework. That didn't work for us last year :-P His first sp ed teacher was a bit disorganized (?), so the notebook would disappear after a week or so. His second sp ed teacher was much better at the communication thing. Don't get me wrong - I like them both - it's just a joy to have specialist who lets you know what's going on. BTW, my son is in the reg ed classroom, but he has a sp ed teacher for ~ 30 min a day, and she's the one in charge of the notebook, because the reg ed teacher is too busy.The only way I could sign the below contracts is if the teacher signed a contract that she would communicate with me daily as to what my son needed to do to fulfill her contracts. That way I could assist my son in performing his duties. I don't know about your son, but there is no way my son could do it on his own, and I won't set my son up for failure. A child who is blind shouldn't sign a contract that he will read a

book a day without a clause in the contract that says the school will supply all necessary books in Braille. The blind child would absolutely fail without the Braille accommodation. Your son's teacher's contracts need similar clauses/alterations that delineate what accommodations your son needs so that he can fulfill his obligations. If the teacher signs that contract stating she will let you know ALL of your son's duties EVERY day, and your son fails to complete an assignment that she did not inform you of, then your son should have ANY consequence. - My 2 cents worth.But I would also be concerned that I would be setting my sights too low - that my expectations are so low that I am hindering my son's development. All 3 of my children have surprised me over the years with what they know, with their abilities, etc. Perhaps your son will rise to the expectation? I think we need to at least consider the

possibility.Suzanne, I'm sure you will come up with a workable plan. Please let us know how it ends up!!ChrisP.S. Don't fret over a teacher with not much experience with developmental delays. As long as she's willing to be flexible and to learn more about Asperger's, then you're in good shape. Almost everyone who's worked with my son has said, "I've never had a student with autism before." In the past, I have created a 2 page sheet describing my son's characteristics and abilities. Last year, I gave his first grade teacher a book about his disability, not expecting her to read it and know it, but that she would have a reference book when she needed it. I also gave her all my numbers so she could call at any time. She never did.************ ********* ********* ********...Here's my biggest question...I met his new teacher, and I'm not sure she hasmuch, if any, experience in working with children with

developmentaldisabilities. Great. That's not what I ordered at the IEP, and believe me, I'llsend it back if I have to!!! But, she actually wants the children to sign"contracts" stating they will obey all classroom rules and understand theconsequences they will have to incur if they break the classroom rules; and oneother one about homework. There are three of these "contracts" in total. Theabove two, I have a problem with for a few reasons: A) He has Autism and ADHD.He has a very hard time understanding cause and effect...action andreaction...if you do this, then this will happen. Trust me, I've tested the theory; I can't sign something stating that homework completion will not be aproblem and that he will be in charge of remembering and organizing all of hisassignments (hello!...did I mention he has ADHD and Asperger's?! ?!?!??) when Idon't know that with any degree of certainty; and C) He's not

even 7 yearsold!!!! And that's his chronological age -- not his developmental age!!!(Again, did she get the memo that he has developmental disabilities? !?!!? Iknow she knows, because I told her myself and so did his teacher from lastyear!) How can he be expected to sign these "contracts?! ?!?!?" Yeah, both he andI are supposed to sign them. Yes, I know that they're not legally binding,but still...it's like asking a 4 year old to do all of this.Does this seem irrational to anyone else? Or is it just me?...

[Guest guest]

Wow! I guess it could get to that level if it's legally binding. I agree with you, Suzanne, ought to have an adenum or rewrite it to fit her son...I sure hope we don't have to do this too...

----- Original Message ----From: jarkat2002@...To: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:32:53 AMSubject: Re: [ ] Beginning of School is a Mixed Blessing

ack ... I'll do my best to look up the info later today (our first day of school as well) but there is a case in cleveland area where a child w/ a disability was made to sign a contract at school, the family ended up at a hearing.

I *think* Nessa Segal (spelling?) was the representing atty. Give me a little time we are in the process of having our bathroom renovated and things are a little crazy here! And IMO I wouldn't sign the contract (yet, at least)

[Guest guest]

>My concern continues to be that if my boy says " I don't want to do that " in

>class, it may be >because he needs a sensory break, or that it really is

>beyond his ability, or that he could do part of >it, but needs help with

>some aspect. However, what if she (the teacher) considers that

> >insubordination? Then he could find himself in serious disciplinary

>trouble over something that is related to his disorder. .... He shouldn't

>be punished for it.

Suzanne - I agree with you 100%! It's just too easy to think, " Oh, this

child is smart enough to do the work, " or " ...smart enough to know better!

He's trying to push me! " It's easy for teachers, relatives, even parents,

to assign the wrong motive to children with autism. I don't think we can

assume why a child is or is not doing something without asking, and autism

is a communication disorder, so it's hard to get an answer. Though I do

believe we can make a hypothesis and go from there. We just need to be

flexible to come up with another hypothesis if our first one is wrong, or a

second solution if the first isn't successful.

>Thanks for that Bill of Rights for Misunderstood Children, a. I may

>need that!

http://adhd.kids.tripod.com/bill.html - Is this a link to the bill?

Thanks, Chris