Guest guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Well, , Your story has made me cry and scared me very much, as I seem to see us starting down that road. Still, forewarned is forearmed, and maybe I can use what you have shared to lay some groundword now that will help Curtis as we go along. Thanks for all the helpful details and suggestions of things to try. Am I understanding right that you are in Britain? In that case, some things might be a little different for us here in California, but still you have pointed out many good directions to look. Thank you again, and my prayers are with you and your daughter. My son seems to be a little better for the moment. At least, he has stopped the aggressive behavior and is enjoying making Easter eggs very much. One thing that may have helped (but I don't know if it was a good idea long term) was that I told him his next surgery has been scheduled for May 28, which is still 6 weeks away. This is true, of course, but he is also still on a waiting list. I have always followed a policy of being truthful about his situation, so originally I had told him that they might call any day. He was very upset about this, as I mentioned. It seemed to send him off over the edge and this is when the aggressive behavior appeared. A few days later, the surgery scheduler called to say it's scheduled for May 28, in case nothing opens up sooner that's the soonest they can schedule him in. So, after talking to my husband and a few other parents, I told Curtis that it was scheduled for May 28 and showed him how far away that was on the calendar, without mentioning that they still could call in earlier. He liked that, but was more upset for a few hours just because we had brought up the subject, then seemed to feel better and has been happier since. Hopefully, it will spare him from a few weeks of really high anxiety. He's young enough that I think I can explain the situation if they call in sooner, without it being obvious that we didn't tell the whole story. (I hope this is not a mistake that will affect his trust in us!) I think I may have more school options here, than you do in Britain. Right now, my children are in a Waldorf-based Charter school (a charter school is a school, built and organized by the parents, which may have a different "charter" or program from the public schools), where the parents have to be very involved and the teachers are very caring. I have been talking to Curtis' teacher about this all along and she reports to me on how he is hearing in class, etc... as it is much harder for him in a group with noises on all sides and I don't see him in that situation as often as she does. In this school, the children start first grade a little older than in the regular public schools (7, instead of 6). Curtis was an in-between age, where he could have been the youngest in the first grade this year, or the oldest in the first grade next year. We chose to keep him in Kindergarten one more year so he could have the respect/confidence of being the oldest in class, and also to make sure that when he came to his lessons, he would be really, really ready for them. This was hard for him because some of his good friends went on. However, two years of Kindergarten is common in Waldorf schools so he wasn't singled out as the only one who stayed for another year, there were 4 others, too. He has stayed friends with some of his good friends who are now in first grade and sees them at home, and also has developed new friends in this year's Kindergarten. So, it seems to have smoothed out. We have already met his first grade teacher next year and she seems like a very enthusiastic, caring, and loving woman. Perhaps a little inexperienced, but I think she will do her best for Curtis. If all else fails, in California, I can pull him out of the schools altogether and teach him at home. As we have a number of friends doing this as well, it won't seem strange. In fact, it is something he has mentioned wanting a few times, especially when the kindergarten/first grade decision was being made. I think my first steps, based on your suggestions, will be to ask for another hearing test, so that I can get a better idea of what Curtis is really able to hear at school. And also to talk to his pediatrician about a referral to a therapist. I will keep you all posted. Yours, Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 G,day I read your message with great interest. We too have had trouble with Nick (Midget), with depression and morbid fascinations. Let alone the poor guy is having with his school work. I have had to fight for Midget with a new principal and a new straight out of uni teacher. Midget attends the Catholic school, however, as he is considered to be disabled the school receives government funding for him to have a one on one teacher for two hours per day. He was not getting this, until I asked the principal for the phone number of the Education and Science Department. Guess what, the next day his private sessions began. Next problem was the principal insisted that Midget learn Japanese (as is a core subject for year 5 students). However, I told him that until Midget can comprehend his own language it was insane to put pressure on him to learn another. The principal told me he would have individual lessons with his teacher, reading and writing English, whilst his class mates learnt Japanese. However, that night Midget came home in tears and when asked what was wrong he replied that he had to do Japanese as the principal told him that no mother is going to tell him what to do. Let's just say that Midget is no longer doing Japanese and the principal stays out of my way. The new teacher does not teach the children out of one particular book, however, it is their set homework for the week (on top of the other homework). Imagine if you will a child who cannot wear hearing aids as he has no amplification and he only has 15% hearing in his good ear. He writes the words as they sound to him (as we all do),although we will look at the word and realise that it is wrong, he cannot do this. His reading is well below average. When I discussed this with his teacher, she informs me that she has never had to deal with a child like Midget (what has he got two heads, or is he hearing impaired). I can understand that, but I think she could make the effort to work with Nick. This year he has to do a book report and the whole class gets the same book to read. This book is well above Midget's level and the teacher insists that he will do it. Having said that though when I discussed it with his old teachers in general conversations they said to leave it with them and they will guide the new teacher. His old teachers let Nick read whatever he felt comfortable with as long as he read at least 2 pages a day. Even though these aforesaid problems might seem minor to us as adults, to Midget it is like his world is crushing around him. Luckily, he has many mates, and the school always sends him a chocie basket and flowers whenever he is in hospital. Which seems to be often these last two years. Infact, in November every student in the school posted him a card. Midget has not smiled for at least six months now, as the c-toma has pressed on his facial nerves and made his smile a bit wonky. The kids at school tell him that he has a beautiful smile, so hopefully one day soon he will not feel so anxious about it. Speaking of anxious about a week before Nick has surgery he sleepwalks, is cranky, depressed and very teary. So hang in there mate, over the otherside of the world, somebody knows just how you feel. Before I finish this novel (long enough hey) I put the sub titles on the DVD so that Midget gets to see the word and well as hear it. Has anyone got any other suggestions to help in the reading department. He is so self conscious about the level of reading that he is on. Thanks Deb emotional state of the child... > Hi there, > I first mentioned to this group that my daughter ie was having what > could be described as " emotional difficulties " a couple of years ago. I last > wrote to the group for advice explaining that things had become much worse...so I > apologise to those who already know the story, but here's a little background > stuff for the rest of you. > > ie had her first operation for ctoma aged 4, just before her fifth > birthday. She had always had trouble with her ears and had already had numerous > minor ops for grommets, clean outs, adenoids and general look arounds. She had > a CWD procedure and made a good recovery. The CWU option wasn't really > discussed as the surgeon felt that the CWD was her best bet, in addition much would > depend on the size of the ctoma. Sadly, like so many others here, it was > " much bigger than they thought " , so realistically, the CWD was her only choice. > > Emotionally she did much better than I did. I was angry that I had had to > argue for the doctor concerned to take it seriously. He did an x ray to pacify > me and then before we knew it was all guns a blazing and straight into > theatre! ie was keen to get back into school, and we had to ask them to make > special arrangements to accommodate her early....she was so keen! Her dolls > went with her to hospital and had the same bandages....her own bandage that was > worn in school was decorated. I used to draw and colour in pictures on a strip > of tape and stick over the bandage to look like a headband........in short > all was well! > > She had further small ops here and there, and just before her second surgery > was spending most days at the hospital for cleanings. It was hoped to be able > to treat it conservatively, but we all knew that it was ctoma again. I > thought the docs may have learnt a thing or two from the time before....well...not > quite enough. I was lucky enough to be able, through varies unorthodox > routes, organise a second opinion elsewhere. She had ctoma again....only this time > both sides. > > Post operatively she was given a hearing aid, behind the ear type. A hearing > teacher for the deaf employed by the local authority took the time to come in > to the school and explain it to the other kids. The school weren't as > helpful this time round. She received no recognition of the fact that she had been > in hospital by her class, no cards or well wishes. A short while later a > child was repeatedly running up to her in the playground screaming in her hearing > aid....ie had some confidence then, and finally had enough....she > screamed back in the girl's ear....and got caught. She was told off, told what a > horrible child she was, no thought to what had caused her to do this, she'd had > an exemplary record to date. As a result she point blank refused to wear a > hearing aid ever again. > > She began to be on a bit of a downer....the girl who'd done this continued to > be generally quite mean, but ie no longer had the guts to stick up for > herself...and consequently she spiralled, albeit slowly, further downwards. > > The school provided a hearing box, a soundfield system. Its quite > conspicuous. It worked well for a year, with a diligent teacher, but was not used at > all the following year. The year after that it worked for a couple of weeks, > but then ie was made to take to another child within the school....she was > now not the ONLY hearing impaired kid in the school. ie felt that this > meant that the other kid was considered more worthy of her equipment than her, > and with an already low self esteem, things could only go down. > > In short, things escalated to the point where ie was feeling suicidal. > She didnt quite know what it meant, but she wished she was dead etc. I > approached the school...who again were unhelpful. > I approached the school a second time later, ie was now self harming. > The school appeared to be trying to help now. I wrote to the group and told > them, everyone was very positive, sadly, as things have progressed.....the > school have proved to be liars only interested in saving themselves. They realised > they've made huge mistakes and know we've been advised to take them to a > disability tribunual. We will not go down this route...pointless as she leaves > the school soon, but the way they have behaved is quite disgusting. I have > since discovered that many other " special needs kids " within the school have been > let down to the same degree, so I'm not alone, they seem to prefer the old > label of " problem kids " . > > OK...so you have alittle insight into the history... > I now have a child who hates school, cries a lot, hurts herself deliberately > and wishes she was dead. This then included obnoxious behaviour, she started > to become sullen and withdrawn, worry about everyone dying....it was getting > out of hand. > > So what did I do?? > > Reluctantly I sought advice from the GP, to see a Psychologist/Psychiatrist. > She was referred and our first session/assessment was a disaster. The > second session we had a different guy. He basically said that the school had let > her down tremendously, but that he had much influence of the systems in place > and whatever it took to ensure her welfare within the education system from now > onwards he would make sure she got it. She liked him and chatting with him > not only helped her, but helped us as parents to know that had been doing all > the right things in a bad situation. > > I also approached the GP to get access to the specialist British Deaf Assos. > counselling service. We were referred......ages ago....last year sometime, > but I've never heard anything from them??? I am disappointed on this front. > > The school have been unhelpful, 100%, however ie has a teacher this year > that she had three years ago. The woman is approachable, accommodating and > quite lovely and has made it her business to take ie under her wing and > help us all. > > The school she attends is denominational....as a result I managed to get > access to a essentially christian based counsellor. Not strictly counselling, > more pastoral care and a lady goes in most weeks to offer a listening ear to > ie. This has worked the best of all for ie, because it's on site at > school and she has bonded well with her. Its also regular, it helps to break up > the school week, and the school day for frankie. > > So I would suggest....fully involving the school...trying to make sure the > teachers are aware of the difficulties youre experiencing. It may be that > something is happening at school that simply hasnt been noticed yet. That way it > can be nipped in the bud before it becomes a problem. > > See the GP, you may get access to a counsellor/pyschologist. you only go if > you feel its of benefit, but do give it a chance. It may give you access to > more for your child within the school setting, it may give you some coping > stratagies, or simply some moral support. > > The mere fact that the BDA have specialist counsellors tells me that there > are many people that struggle emotionally with hearing impairment....so it's no > great surprise if kids, who have less understanding of things, might need a > bit of extra support. > > The education authority should have a eduactional psychologist, who again may > help within the school setting. > > Any local groups or charities that deal with hearing impariment, may have > clubs for families and kids, or services that are available to you. > > A small piece from the psychiatrist : children who have had much medical > intervention, often go through a phase of feeling depressed and morbid. This is > apparently quite common. As a result, it becomes quite common for agressive > behaviour to develop within the family setting, as the child feels comfortable. > It feels able to express itself in this negative fashion, a kind of off > loading of stress. In this situation it is important to make boundaries clear, to > maintain some discipline rather than give in at all times, but to remain calm, > and not display such aggression in return...physically or verbally. positive > reinforcement can be used in the form of reward charts etc....to praise good > behaviour and improvements. > > We were told to make it clear that self harming, for example, was never > acceptable behaviour, but to offer alternative outlets, such as pillow fights, > breaking crockery or playing loud music. We were told to make sure we noticed > even the slightest of positive behaviour and to pass comment accordingly. > > Make sure friends and family are filled in on the difficulties you are > having, so that there arent constant comments like " what's wrong with him then? " or > " arent they being naughty " ...etc... > Let them know it's a phase, perhaps explain how you're dealing with it, but > keep it all low key. > > An anxiety tin is a good idea. Younger kids can write a letter telling their > anxieties to " get lost " , " leave them alone " " go away " , and it's often helpful > if they name it. > Older kids can post their troubles into a tin/box which is private and > locked. When they feel ready, they can dispose of them, by burning or placing in > the bin, thus off loading. > > As a parent its impotrant to share your stress......it keeps you sane and > able to deal with things. > Dont be too scared of " therapies " , as you always have the option to op out if > you feel they arent working...and where one doesnt work another might! > > Hope this helps a bit...when I have more time and if I think of anything else > I'll let you know. Also....talk to the ENT doc...let them know how he > is....it may make a difference in their approach. ie is curently awaiting > another surgery for recurrence in CWD ear (No.3) and this is bound to make her > more anxious. > > will keep you all in my thoughts > > x > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 I also approached the GP to get access to the specialist British Deaf Assos. counselling service. We were referred......ages ago....last year sometime, but I've never heard anything from them??? I am disappointed on this front. The only point I have is that the BDA is a fairly political group focussed on the capital 'D' Deaf culture and the promotion and recognition of sign language. They don't have a great deal of interest in the mainstream 'oral' hearing impaired. The BDA is run by the same person who run the FDP (Federation of Deaf People) which may tell you something. I don't know whether you've had any contact with the RNID but they are a much bigger charity which does claim to help all deaf and HOH people. I don't know what kind of advcie or support they actually offer, but they give give the impression of being much better organized. http://www.rnid.org.uk/index.htm Tel: 0808 808 0123 (freephone)Textphone: 0808 808 9000 (freephone)Fax: 020 7296 8199 E-mail: informationline@... 19-23 Featherstone Street, London EC1Y 8SL There's also a group called The National Deaf Children's Society who may be worth looking at, though I know nothing about them. http://www.ndcs.org.uk/index.html The NDCS runs a Freephone helpline. The Freephone helpline number is 0808 800 8880 (voice and text).The Freephone helpline team is available from 10am to 5pm, Monday to Friday. please email our helpline - helpline@... I recently saw this doctor's description of how hearing impairment may affect people - and that's primarily adults who aren't also having to deal with a disease that neve seems to stop. "The list of problems which have been associated with hearing loss is extensive. It includes: fatigue, irritability, embarrassment, tension, stress, anxiety, depression, negativism, avoidance of social activities, withdrawal from personal relationships, rejection, danger to personal safety, general health, loneliness, dissatisfaction with life and unhappiness at work." http://hohadvocates.org/emotional_factors.htm Best wishes to you and ie ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.638 / Virus Database: 409 - Release Date: 21/03/04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Hi , when I read this I got mad as I'm sure you have run the guantlet of emotions yourself. Well done for fighting every step of the way and I hope you get round to compiling an MP's report as certainly the LEA should have been a tad more helpful over the years. Give ie a big hug and tell her she's unique for me. Much posher than special Surely if we are going to teach our kids another language then sign is a much better alternative and yes I've run into the bigotry myself. I have started to learn sign at a local college and found that a much more comfortable approach than the local Deaf school which I found subliminally hostile. When I tried to find anyone in social services to help me get my life back on course I was told that since I'm not totally deaf there isn't anything. That's taken a year, full of tears and tantrums trying to find something that simply does not exist. I also ended up compiling my own medical report for the DHSS as they refused to contact my consultant because of the cost, and my GP's being unqualified or confident to do so. My consultant is quite happy to talk to them once I gave written permission authorising him to do so however they would have to contact him directly. All that because I tried getting onto a back to work scheme at the local job centre only to be told I was disabled and as such not their problem. I circumnavigated all this by getting my GP to sign me as depressed which means I'm no longer able to go back into youth work either since clinical depression makes you unfit for that type of work. Shame as a once troublesome kid I'm able to get through to alot that others give up on. I got thro school by being loud and aggresive so the other kids would give me a wide berth and the last 2 years it's been hard just being myself and feeling so vulnerable, and not hiding behind a false front to keep the world at bay. " Not wanted in one world or the other " sums it up quite well, as an adult I've found this tough to deal with so I am angry that a child has been treated in the same shoddy way. It surprised me and shocked me but then I am very niave over how things are instead of how they could be. Joining RNID has proved a useful source of information so it is one I recommend. Sorry I can't be more help but to be honest this group has stopped me from hurting myself when things seemed at there bleakest, and it's helped alot to know I'm not alone and yeah it is tough sometimes. I'm now pushing my mum to get seen by ENT as she's been deaf for quite awhile but as she has a hare lip and cleft palate she's used to people just treating her like a neurotic idiot so doesn't push things much. Same when I was a kid she really had to remain persistent to get me seen at all, now it's my turn to do the same for her. Anyway big hugs and when the system doesn't want to swallow you become undigestable, they count on you giving in and going away if you can't fit in their neat little pigeon holes. Thanks to everyone here I've regained some of my confidence to not go away and get them to do their jobs. Take care June > Hi there, > I first mentioned to this group that my daughter ie was having what > could be described as " emotional difficulties " a couple of years ago. I last > wrote to the group for advice explaining that things had become much worse...so I > apologise to those who already know the story, but here's a little background > stuff for the rest of you. > > ie had her first operation for ctoma aged 4, just before her fifth > birthday. She had always had trouble with her ears and had already had numerous > minor ops for grommets, clean outs, adenoids and general look arounds. She had > a CWD procedure and made a good recovery. The CWU option wasn't really > discussed as the surgeon felt that the CWD was her best bet, in addition much would > depend on the size of the ctoma. Sadly, like so many others here, it was > " much bigger than they thought " , so realistically, the CWD was her only choice. > > Emotionally she did much better than I did. I was angry that I had had to > argue for the doctor concerned to take it seriously. He did an x ray to pacify > me and then before we knew it was all guns a blazing and straight into > theatre! ie was keen to get back into school, and we had to ask them to make > special arrangements to accommodate her early....she was so keen! Her dolls > went with her to hospital and had the same bandages....her own bandage that was > worn in school was decorated. I used to draw and colour in pictures on a strip > of tape and stick over the bandage to look like a headband........in short > all was well! > > She had further small ops here and there, and just before her second surgery > was spending most days at the hospital for cleanings. It was hoped to be able > to treat it conservatively, but we all knew that it was ctoma again. I > thought the docs may have learnt a thing or two from the time before....well...not > quite enough. I was lucky enough to be able, through varies unorthodox > routes, organise a second opinion elsewhere. She had ctoma again....only this time > both sides. > > Post operatively she was given a hearing aid, behind the ear type. A hearing > teacher for the deaf employed by the local authority took the time to come in > to the school and explain it to the other kids. The school weren't as > helpful this time round. She received no recognition of the fact that she had been > in hospital by her class, no cards or well wishes. A short while later a > child was repeatedly running up to her in the playground screaming in her hearing > aid....ie had some confidence then, and finally had enough....she > screamed back in the girl's ear....and got caught. She was told off, told what a > horrible child she was, no thought to what had caused her to do this, she'd had > an exemplary record to date. As a result she point blank refused to wear a > hearing aid ever again. > > She began to be on a bit of a downer....the girl who'd done this continued to > be generally quite mean, but ie no longer had the guts to stick up for > herself...and consequently she spiralled, albeit slowly, further downwards. > > The school provided a hearing box, a soundfield system. Its quite > conspicuous. It worked well for a year, with a diligent teacher, but was not used at > all the following year. The year after that it worked for a couple of weeks, > but then ie was made to take to another child within the school....she was > now not the ONLY hearing impaired kid in the school. ie felt that this > meant that the other kid was considered more worthy of her equipment than her, > and with an already low self esteem, things could only go down. > > In short, things escalated to the point where ie was feeling suicidal. > She didnt quite know what it meant, but she wished she was dead etc. I > approached the school...who again were unhelpful. > I approached the school a second time later, ie was now self harming. > The school appeared to be trying to help now. I wrote to the group and told > them, everyone was very positive, sadly, as things have progressed.....the > school have proved to be liars only interested in saving themselves. They realised > they've made huge mistakes and know we've been advised to take them to a > disability tribunual. We will not go down this route...pointless as she leaves > the school soon, but the way they have behaved is quite disgusting. I have > since discovered that many other " special needs kids " within the school have been > let down to the same degree, so I'm not alone, they seem to prefer the old > label of " problem kids " . > > OK...so you have alittle insight into the history... > I now have a child who hates school, cries a lot, hurts herself deliberately > and wishes she was dead. This then included obnoxious behaviour, she started > to become sullen and withdrawn, worry about everyone dying....it was getting > out of hand. > > So what did I do?? > > Reluctantly I sought advice from the GP, to see a Psychologist/Psychiatrist. > She was referred and our first session/assessment was a disaster. The > second session we had a different guy. He basically said that the school had let > her down tremendously, but that he had much influence of the systems in place > and whatever it took to ensure her welfare within the education system from now > onwards he would make sure she got it. She liked him and chatting with him > not only helped her, but helped us as parents to know that had been doing all > the right things in a bad situation. > > I also approached the GP to get access to the specialist British Deaf Assos. > counselling service. We were referred......ages ago....last year sometime, > but I've never heard anything from them??? I am disappointed on this front. > > The school have been unhelpful, 100%, however ie has a teacher this year > that she had three years ago. The woman is approachable, accommodating and > quite lovely and has made it her business to take ie under her wing and > help us all. > > The school she attends is denominational....as a result I managed to get > access to a essentially christian based counsellor. Not strictly counselling, > more pastoral care and a lady goes in most weeks to offer a listening ear to > ie. This has worked the best of all for ie, because it's on site at > school and she has bonded well with her. Its also regular, it helps to break up > the school week, and the school day for frankie. > > So I would suggest....fully involving the school...trying to make sure the > teachers are aware of the difficulties youre experiencing. It may be that > something is happening at school that simply hasnt been noticed yet. That way it > can be nipped in the bud before it becomes a problem. > > See the GP, you may get access to a counsellor/pyschologist. you only go if > you feel its of benefit, but do give it a chance. It may give you access to > more for your child within the school setting, it may give you some coping > stratagies, or simply some moral support. > > The mere fact that the BDA have specialist counsellors tells me that there > are many people that struggle emotionally with hearing impairment....so it's no > great surprise if kids, who have less understanding of things, might need a > bit of extra support. > > The education authority should have a eduactional psychologist, who again may > help within the school setting. > > Any local groups or charities that deal with hearing impariment, may have > clubs for families and kids, or services that are available to you. > > A small piece from the psychiatrist : children who have had much medical > intervention, often go through a phase of feeling depressed and morbid. This is > apparently quite common. As a result, it becomes quite common for agressive > behaviour to develop within the family setting, as the child feels comfortable. > It feels able to express itself in this negative fashion, a kind of off > loading of stress. In this situation it is important to make boundaries clear, to > maintain some discipline rather than give in at all times, but to remain calm, > and not display such aggression in return...physically or verbally. positive > reinforcement can be used in the form of reward charts etc....to praise good > behaviour and improvements. > > We were told to make it clear that self harming, for example, was never > acceptable behaviour, but to offer alternative outlets, such as pillow fights, > breaking crockery or playing loud music. We were told to make sure we noticed > even the slightest of positive behaviour and to pass comment accordingly. > > Make sure friends and family are filled in on the difficulties you are > having, so that there arent constant comments like " what's wrong with him then? " or > " arent they being naughty " ...etc... > Let them know it's a phase, perhaps explain how you're dealing with it, but > keep it all low key. > > An anxiety tin is a good idea. Younger kids can write a letter telling their > anxieties to " get lost " , " leave them alone " " go away " , and it's often helpful > if they name it. > Older kids can post their troubles into a tin/box which is private and > locked. When they feel ready, they can dispose of them, by burning or placing in > the bin, thus off loading. > > As a parent its impotrant to share your stress......it keeps you sane and > able to deal with things. > Dont be too scared of " therapies " , as you always have the option to op out if > you feel they arent working...and where one doesnt work another might! > > Hope this helps a bit...when I have more time and if I think of anything else > I'll let you know. Also....talk to the ENT doc...let them know how he > is....it may make a difference in their approach. ie is curently awaiting > another surgery for recurrence in CWD ear (No.3) and this is bound to make her > more anxious. > > will keep you all in my thoughts > > x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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