small correction

[Guest guest]

Sorry about that. The actual new address is:

sabrenar00@...

Sorry about the inconvenience.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/22/2005 3:15:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,

rdill@... writes:

Inclusion is a good thing, but it isn't education. Most of our kids

need both and I take offense at people telling me that Jan wasn't and

isn't included in life. I get upset with parents who think that

inclusion is perhaps more important than education. Both are important

and there are a variety of delivery methods for both.

--

I beg to differ that " Inclusion " is not " education " - it all depends on how

the services are delivered in the Inclusion setting and on the teacher.

We've had (and still have) some Inclusion classes that are more along the

" socialization and role modelling " model because the teacher doesn't buy into

the fact is HER student. In those situations I push hard for getting the

curriculum so that I can adapt materials and can learn and

contribute. For example her Social Studies teacher this year - I'm up early

this AM

because the class is studying the Western states of the US so I'm making flash

cards that can use to practice recognizing the shapes of the states and

memorizing facts.

The teacher is Science class " gets it " - The class is studying life

sciences. is also learning parts of the body and systems - not in the

same

depth as the rest of the class but she is learning those things too. She is

learning to read related vocabulary. She brings in materials and books to share

(DK has the wonderful Eyewitness series - the pictures and illustrations are

great for and the text is great for her 7th grade classmates).

participates in group activities (they did an exercise, for example, on how

diseases are passed). was part of a team for the frog dissection lab and

LOVED it (much to the teacher's astonishment since there are many squeamish

kids in the class who opted for the virtual dissection on the computer). Her

favorite part is when they found eggs inside the frog they were dissecting.

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/22/2005 3:15:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

rdill@... writes:

Inclusion is a good thing, but it isn't education.

I would argue that point. Inclusion in school is also about curriculum

access and teaching strategies, it is not just social benefits of being with non

disabled peers. It is about non-segregation in school. You are right that

various forms of inclusion can take place in environments other than the

classroom.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Inclusion is a good thing, but it isn't education.

Sorry, I am getting into this debate - but I really do feel that statement

is very incorrect.

We are all being educated by the mere fact of being included.

A prime example being - as I am included in this forum I have been educated

in many ways in regards

to people with DS and in someway the American school system (although I

still find it very confusing!).

The fact is - Cheryl kindly shared a story about a young person with DS who

is attending college and is achieving very good results in a couple of

subjects. Did the article say he was a high achiever in all areas - I don't

think so. No doubt as his parents are academics through genetics this has

helped him along with the fact that they have spent many hours working with

him in these areas.

I know a few older kids with DS, who give the appearance that they are

functioning at 'normal' levels - but every now and then you see the younger

and much younger side of them. Balance out the high functioning areas of

this persons ability with the low areas and it is very possible they would

not test anywhere near what we would call 'normal' abilities, thus giving

the necessary labels to get the required assistance. (Your testing and

labels is another very foreign area for me)

Personally I love hearing of such positive stories, for me Trent will never

be amongst the high educational achievers, he has to see the point behind

the learning. 1 + 1 = 2 so what - now 10cents + 10 cents = 20 cents which

will buy xyz, is the reason behind his learning, along with achieving

independence. He can be very stubborn, determine, moody, friendly, an

attention seeker, helpful when he wants, shows great understanding and

knowledge of things that interest him. All these words could describe any

other member of my family - he has not achieved greatly academically then

again he hasn't always been motivated to do so - give up on this kid work

harder on another who shows greater ability making the teacher look better!

Just keep in mind, our kids with DS as with their average peers all learn at

different levels - some will be good academically, some will be good at

sport, others will not be able to cope with the education system but will

have success in other areas. Life isn't about being the best and have the

most - it should be about being happy and content.

Keep smiling

Jan, mother of Trent 20yo with DS from the LandDownUnder

[Guest guest]

Ya' know I have to agree with Rick on this one. I really feel that

inclusion should be encompassed into the society as a whole not just school.

My daughter, Emma goes to a special day class and is not included in any

typical classrooms because that would not meet any of herneeds right now.

She is however given time to interact with her typical developing peers on

the playground and at lunch time in the school setting. Just this week as

Emma's IEP it was mentioned that Emma would be transitioning soon to the

next level at a school that my husband and I do not care for. We objected

and asked if there were any other schools that contained the classroom she

needed and the IEP team respended with a yes but they are further away, I

then let them know I did not care aboutt he distance BUT rather than the

quality of the education instead. I really feel that inclusion happens over

a lifetime in all situations and not just at school.

JMHO

Colleen

_____

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf

Of Rick Dill

Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 12:13 AM

KathyEverett@...;

Subject: Small correction

Kathy wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>

Society viewed people with a disability different when Rick had Jan. Years

ago anyone who was labeled as MR, they were put " away " and forgotten about.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

The big change the world for our kids came from a single newspaper

reporter who reported on the situation in one institution ..

Willowbrook. That and subsequent lawsuits (not particularly by parents)

changed things.

There were others before Jan and Willowbrook who got educations but they

are few and I applaud their parents.. The education Jan got was

excellent in that for 15 years of public education it challenged her to

her limits. The teachers never gave up and Jan responded by learning

and being rewarding to teach.. Jan's peers like Kingsley, Mitch

Levitz, and many others got equivalent educations and it was in this era

that parent activiism really got started.

Yes, there was bad education all around when Jan went to school. We

networked with other parents and our IEP committees to find the best

teachers and environments for our particular children. We didn't accept

the third grade teacher because she was where all third graders went.

We went across school district lines to find the best at educating kids

with special needs. Yes, in our era, those inspired teachers were in

SPED environments, not surprisingly since our child had special needs.

Inclusion today is not about education, but rather about the classroom

and social environment in which it is delivered. Inclusion for Jan was

always in the neighborhood, in the community, and in life where there

are a whole lot more hours at school. For Jan .. and I won't talk about

it .. inclusion included some dark side of abuse as well as benefit.

Inclusion is a good thing, but it isn't education. Most of our kids

need both and I take offense at people telling me that Jan wasn't and

isn't included in life. I get upset with parents who think that

inclusion is perhaps more important than education. Both are important

and there are a variety of delivery methods for both.

You may well have different opinions.

Rick

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messages to go to the sender of the message.

_____