Allergy Testing

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/20/2004 5:49:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bkholswort@... writes:

My symptoms aren't nearly as severe as some of yours, but they are symptoms that are affecting my life. I'd really like to be able to prove that the mold at my workplace is affecting my health.

If you stay in that workplace, your symptoms will increase and there is a point of no return. Get out while you can, then prove it, in that order.

[Guest guest]

In MD, perhaps the best doctor for mold in America is in your immediate vicinity: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker

http://www.chronicneurotoxins.com/

that is his website.

sure wish he was in CA

[Guest guest]

In MD, perhaps the best doctor for mold in America is in your immediate vicinity: Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker

http://www.chronicneurotoxins.com/

that is his website.

sure wish he was in CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/21/2004 6:12:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Gingersnap1964@... writes:

Does anyone know of doctors of this nmagnitude near Maine? I have been on antigen shots of mold and have started to react violently to them. My body heats up, and I shake and get my mold symptoms back. This causes me to be nervous about my new doctor.Thanks

personally, I would never take shots that made me feel like that

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/21/2004 6:12:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Gingersnap1964@... writes:

Does anyone know of doctors of this nmagnitude near Maine? I have been on antigen shots of mold and have started to react violently to them. My body heats up, and I shake and get my mold symptoms back. This causes me to be nervous about my new doctor.Thanks

personally, I would never take shots that made me feel like that

[Guest guest]

Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker is in land:

www.chronicneurotoxins.com

I know of no one in Maine for treatment and upon extensive research there are only 4 toxicologist in the US that treat and litigate on these issues and Maine is not one of them.

[Guest guest]

Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker is in land:

www.chronicneurotoxins.com

I know of no one in Maine for treatment and upon extensive research there are only 4 toxicologist in the US that treat and litigate on these issues and Maine is not one of them.

[Guest guest]

Suze:

>Does anyone know if food allergy tests are useful? I mean, do they only tell

>you if you have IgG reactions or IgE? Or do they cover IgA?

It seems that if you get an ELISA test, and have an IgA allergy to a thing, you

will

*also* have an IgG allergy to that thing (the IgG is used as a backup for gluten

testing, when a person has low IgA). BUT ... the reverse isn't true, you can

have an IgG allergy but no IgA allergy. IgE's seem to be unrelated for the

most part. With the caveat that I don't think any of this is well studied.

However, the ELISA test is cheap and you can get tested for a hundred

or so foods at once. They used it in a double-blind study to test the

concept for IBS ... when the folks avoided the foods they were IgG intolerant

to, their symptoms got better (the " double blind " part is that another group

got a fake list of foods to avoid).

The main risk I see is that the IgG allergies can go away, but the IgA ones

do not ... so if a person thinks they are all IgG allergies, they may well

start eating the food again and the symptoms may take a long time

to surface.

> Are they only

>partially useful if they don't test the exact same source of food you (or

>your pet) consumes? Like GMO-fed chicken compared with organic, pasture-fed?

If you are allergic to a protein, then you are allergic to it ... the test is

for antibodies to

a given protein. I kind of think folks who are ok with organic chicken but not

factory

chicken are reacting to something other than the chicken protein itself. There

are a lot

of issues NOT covered in this kind of testing, like sensitivies to oxalates,

inability to

metabolize protein or sugars, problems with sulfur.

>I'm thinking of getting my dog tested if it's useful info. It's kind of

>expensive, but the alternative is 6 weeks on a single food, and right now

>her immune system ain't in great shape, her disk aren't either and she

>generally requires digestive enzymes or having her food fermented for good

>digestion, so all this would make it impossible to do a proper elimination

>diet.

You can read some of the literature on the York testing site, or Alpha

Nutrition. Generally

I think you are right, the testing is a LOT easier. I was considering doing it

myself, in

case some of things things I eat a lot of (like tomatoes) really are

problematic.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Heidi wrote:

" The main risk I see is that the IgG allergies can go away, but the IgA ones

do not "

Is this absolutely true? Not like I'm really questioning you, just having a

hard time grasping it. My 2 year old tested positive (at scores of 11 & 12) for

gluten, casein, eggs, and yeast with enterolab. Does that mean that for his

whole life he can never eat any of those? That's a hard life.

I know that he's allergic to more than that as well - I'll get him tested for

more soon, hopefully. His only symptoms are that he's hungry ALL the time - he

never gets full - and he has bowel problems --> he's always got a red tushy.

Poor little guy.

Steph

[Guest guest]

>Is this absolutely true? Not like I'm really questioning you, just having a

hard time grasping it. My 2 year old tested positive (at scores of 11 & 12) for

gluten, casein, eggs, and yeast with enterolab. Does that mean that for his

whole life he can never eat any of those? That's a hard life.

I don't think anyone can say for certain with casein, eggs, and yeast. What I

can say for gluten is that in the past, celiacs were told they would " get over

it " when they got older. And in fact, the babies diagnosed with celiac seemed to

grow out of it after they were 5 or so, sometimes long before that. Then they

went back on a regular diet. Someone in Italy got it into their head to do

biopsies on these " cured " kids when they were in their teens ... and all of them

had active celiac, although without symptoms.

Given that celiac without symptoms still causes a higher death rate (cancer) and

autoimmune diseases, it's a big risk to take. Now celiac is an IgA allergy to

gluten. So the same might apply to the other IgA allergies as well ... or not.

Personally I don't think the reaction to casein, eggs, and yeast is nearly as

devastating as the one to gluten, but that's just a guess on my part. Life

without gluten or casein hasn't been as hard as I would have expected ... your

average Asian might have lived their whole life without either one.

>I know that he's allergic to more than that as well - I'll get him tested for

more soon, hopefully. His only symptoms are that he's hungry ALL the time - he

never gets full - and he has bowel problems --> he's always got a red tushy.

Poor little guy.

It can take awhile to heal, even if he does have a good diet. Pepto Bismol helps

in that regard, as does Pascalite clay, and probiotics. The " always hungry " part

I can really relate to! One issue in his healing is how much of those foods are

around your house ... gluten especially gets in EVERYTHING ... I can't eat at

someone's house where bread is baked in the oven, for instance.

The IgG testing seems to be worthwhile for kids and the York test tests for a

LOT of foods all in one test. I do know one kid who got tested and his Mom

avoided all those foods ... sheesh, it was a lot of foods he had to avoid!

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Is this absolutely true? Not like I'm really questioning you, just having a

hard time grasping it. My 2 year old tested positive (at scores of 11 & 12) for

gluten, casein, eggs, and yeast with enterolab. Does that mean that for his

whole life he can never eat any of those? That's a hard life.<

~~~I missed the beginning of this thread, so am not sure which kind of allergies

you're talking about, but I was allergic to eggs and cow's milk and got over

both of them, as well as some other foods. (IGG allergy.) It took years of not

eating the eggs and milk, but I can eat both now and no longer test allergic to

either. (I may have overcome them more quickly, if I was more successful at

TOTALLY eliminating them faster.) Eggs and dairy allergies seem to be the most

difficult to overcome and take a lot longer than other food allergies. With

other foods, it's common to overcome the allergy in as little as three months,

simply by not eating the food. As you can see by this article, you can become

allergic to foods, eliminate them and then reintroduce them again, which is what

I did:

http://www.gsdl.com/assessments/allergy/

Here's another article with more information on food allergies in general:

http://yorkallergyusa.com/dfa.html

Carol

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Steph "

> Heidi wrote:

> " The main risk I see is that the IgG allergies can go away, but the IgA

ones

> do not "

>

> Is this absolutely true?

My research supports what Heidi is saying. My experience also supports it.

There are several IgG's that have been successfully added back into my

children's diets. There are some that haven't been successful when

challenged. I suspect that these are IgA's for them.

> I know that he's allergic to more than that as well - I'll get him tested

for more soon, hopefully. His only symptoms are that he's hungry ALL the

time - he never gets full - and he has bowel problems --> he's always got a

red tushy. Poor little guy.

>

> Steph

This sounds like a malabsorption problem. I found York Nutritional Labs to

be very helpful in nailing down all of the reactive foods that I wouldn't

have been able to trace down on my own. Once we got on a clean slate and

they started taking a full complement of vitamin supplements and digestive

enzymes, each of them put on about 6 lbs in a couple of weeks.

HTH!

--s

[Guest guest]

>~~~I missed the beginning of this thread, so am not sure which kind of

allergies you're talking about, but I was allergic to eggs and cow's milk and

got over both of them, as well as some other foods. (IGG allergy.) It took

years of not eating the eggs and milk, but I can eat both now and no longer test

allergic to either.

Right, the IgG allergies CAN go away (and by doing the testing you can figure

out if they have). The IgA ones are more problematic ... they usually have no

overt symptoms and the testing is iffy. Also the IgG ones don't seem to be so

toxic to the body.

>

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer "

>

>

> Right, the IgG allergies CAN go away (and by doing the testing you can

figure out if they have).

A sister in struggle shared with me a conversation her dh had with some

geek-heads who had advanced degrees in immunology. In their

opinions/experiences, once the body begins creating antibodies, it will

continue to do so for a *very* long time. They concurred that even when the

offending food was removed, the body would continue to register as positive

for as long as 5-10 years after the fact. It looks like this could render

further testing unhelpful. Their opinion was that further testing would

only be valuable in measuring for *new* reactions rather than measuring

reactivity to old allergens. Just some food for thought.

The IgA ones are more problematic ... they usually have no overt symptoms

and the testing is iffy. Also the IgG ones don't seem to be so toxic to the

body.

>

That's the impression that I've gotten from the stuff I've read.

--s

[Guest guest]

>>>A sister in struggle shared with me a conversation her dh had with some

geek-heads who had advanced degrees in immunology. In their

opinions/experiences, once the body begins creating antibodies, it will

continue to do so for a *very* long time. They concurred that even when the

offending food was removed, the body would continue to register as positive

for as long as 5-10 years after the fact.

It looks like this could render

further testing unhelpful.<<<<

~~~~That may be true of some allergies, but not IgG......at least not in all

cases. If further testing comes back negative, you know you've overcome the

allergy. I know that, because I've tested after only eliminating foods for 3-6

months and there were no longer any antibodies. It also depends on the food.

Dairy and eggs took much longer for me.

Carol

[Guest guest]

>They concurred that even when the

>offending food was removed, the body would continue to register as positive

>for as long as 5-10 years after the fact.

Which is pretty much how vaccinations work ... if the immune system " decides "

something is bad (like a cold virus) it remembers!

The IgA system is odd though, it seems like the " recognition system " is

actually hard-coded onto the HLA gene. So you are born " knowing "

some microbes are bad, apparently? And one of those microbes happens

to look like part of a gliadin or casein protein?

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Thanks Heidi and Suzanne!

I think I've gotten most of the gluten out of the house. I've been going

through the cabinets trying to find it all. I replaced my toaster with a handy

dandy toaster oven. :-)

Suzanne, what vitamin supplements do you give your kids? He's pretty solid, but

he should probably be obese with the amount he eats! Although, it's not junk,

it's good stuff. So, he probably does have a malabsorption problem. My main

thing right now is that I've lost a lot of the good fats - butter, cream,

cheese, now egg yolk. We're eating a LOT of coconut oil!

On my shopping list: Pepto, enzymes, probiotics, vitamins....

Steph

" From: Suzanne

This sounds like a malabsorption problem. I found York Nutritional Labs to

be very helpful in nailing down all of the reactive foods that I wouldn't

have been able to trace down on my own. Once we got on a clean slate and

they started taking a full complement of vitamin supplements and digestive

enzymes, each of them put on about 6 lbs in a couple of weeks.

HTH! "

" From Heidi

It can take awhile to heal, even if he does have a good diet. Pepto Bismol helps

in that regard, as does Pascalite clay, and probiotics. The " always hungry " part

I can really relate to! One issue in his healing is how much of those foods are

around your house ... gluten especially gets in EVERYTHING ... I can't eat at

someone's house where bread is baked in the oven, for instance. "

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer "

> The IgA system is odd though, it seems like the " recognition system " is

> actually hard-coded onto the HLA gene. So you are born " knowing "

> some microbes are bad, apparently? And one of those microbes happens

> to look like part of a gliadin or casein protein?

>

And I think you've put your finger on the distinction between the two

antibodies, Heidi. IgG is an adventitiously acquired allergen, due to

issues like leaky gut syndrome. (Does anyone know of other conditions that

initiate IgG's? I haven't been able to find any.) IgA is something that is

genetically encoded and you're stuck with it. IgE's tend to swing both ways

and I believe can be genetic in origin. IgE's are the milk, wheat,

whathaveyou allergens that kids " outgrow, " but can also be the nut and fish

allergens that are with people for life and can be so dangerous.

--s

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Steph "

> Thanks Heidi and Suzanne!

>

> I think I've gotten most of the gluten out of the house. I've been going

through the cabinets trying to find it all. I replaced my toaster with a

handy dandy toaster oven. :-)

>

This is a very handy appliance in my house and gets more use than I would

have credited.

> Suzanne, what vitamin supplements do you give your kids?

It's pretty convoluted and I expect that the purists here will probably

cringe. I *do* work very hard to provide nutritional vectors for what the

supplements provide, but I've seen with my own eyes that despite the good

food I give them, they just don't absorb it sufficiently to feed their

bodies what they need. And the amount I spend on supplements is

heart-breaking, so I'd love to be able to ditch them. If you want, I can

put you in touch with the Queen of Supplements, who has researched them from

an orthomolecular standpoint and she can help you weigh which supplements

would be most beneficial for your little.

Because my kids are allergic to even pharmaceutical quality ingredients, I

start with two Twinlabs Allergy Multiple as the " spine " of our regimen and

add to that. They also take a Twinlabs Allergy C, Source Naturals Calcium,

Vitamin K, Now Magnesium Oxide, RxOmega Factor (I give them four of these a

day) Fish Oil, and 1200 IU of Bio-mulsion D. I also have some B-12 and B-5

that I augment when my oldest is not sleeping well. Add to that Garden Of

Life Omegazyme with each meal. Oh, and once a week, I give them a 25,000 IU

Carlson's Vitamin A.

While we were battling candida, I was giving them Primal Defense, but now

I've dropped that in favor of the coconut milk kefir, kombucha tea, and

other fermented veggies that I can ply down their throats.

I get the lion's share of this stuff from http://www.iherb.com, since the

price is so good to start with, shipping above $20 is free, and with bulk

orders they give such yummy discounts.

My main thing right now is that I've lost a lot of the good fats - butter,

cream, cheese, now egg yolk. We're eating a LOT of coconut oil!

>

I noticed a huge difference in my children's performance when I was able to

add eggs back into the diet.....Vitamin A, yk. You definitely want to get a

sufficient amount of A in him. Are there bumps on the backs of his arms

near his elbows? That's a good indicator of vitamin A deficiency. Coconut

products are terrific and I do quite a bit of this. I'm going to be

trialling ghee pretty soon. I keep telling myself this, but they are so

stable right now that I want to enjoy the tranquility before I voluntarily

rock the boat. Is he able to tolerate fish and fish products?

CLO--which would help you address the A & D as well--and/or fish oil are very

important, too.

Now that I think about what you're mentioning here, the hunger might be

related to the loss of fats. Fats are part of what keep us from feeling

hungry and if what he is eating is largely low in fat, then that might

account for the ubiquitous hunger. Can you do animal fats? Things like

bacon? Coconut milk smoothies?

> On my shopping list: Pepto, enzymes, probiotics, vitamins....

> Steph

Check out Iherb.

You may also want to have your son tested for parasites, too, since that can

contribute to malabsorption.

--s, thinking there is more I should be saying, but blanking atm.....

[Guest guest]

>Thanks Heidi and Suzanne!

>

>I think I've gotten most of the gluten out of the house. I've been going

through the cabinets trying to find it all. I replaced my toaster with a handy

dandy toaster oven. :-)

Congratulations!

I try to get calcium/mag/D down my kids, because gluten intolerant kids usually

have poor bone structure. However I don't know a good way to do it ...

pulverized dried fish in kimchi is great, but they won't eat that! Maybe sneak

it into sauces or soups. Or use the pills and mix them into smoothies.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>>>(Does anyone know of other conditions that

initiate IgG's? I haven't been able to find any.)<<<

There is a theory that, if a specific food protein 'looks' like a protein,

(bacterial etc.), that the immune system is fighting, it will cause an immune

reaction to that food as well, creating a positive response to the food in a

blood test.

Also, and this is only my personal belief, but I think eating a lot of a

particular food will engender an IgG reaction, and probably IgE as well. I know

that's happened to me. I've had numerous ELISA tests, both before and after

allergies (IgG and IgE), appearance, over a period of 20 years. I used to have

a lot more allergies than I do now, and I think they were from something like

leaky gut, as you say, because I've been working on gut issues for years. But,

of late, the few foods that sometimes turn up in testing as positive allergens

are those foods that I've been eating a lot in the few weeks prior to a test.

I'm due to go in soon and am trying not to over indulge in any one food, so it

will be interesting to see what happens this time. Although, I have to say

that, there are some foods which don't seem to create a reaction, no matter how

much I eat them. I'm guessing those are genetically 'my foods', so to

speak.....usually the foods that most people find the least allergenic.

Carol

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Carol "

>

> >>>(Does anyone know of other conditions that

> initiate IgG's? I haven't been able to find any.)<<<

>

> There is a theory that, if a specific food protein 'looks' like a protein,

(bacterial etc.), that the immune system is fighting, it will cause an

immune reaction to that food as well, creating a positive response to the

food in a blood test.

>

> Also, and this is only my personal belief, but I think eating a lot of a

particular food will engender an IgG reaction, and probably IgE as well.

<nodding> I know this to be true. This is what I've gleaned from my

readings, but I could be forming erroneous conclusions: IgG's are a result

of food proteins in the bloodstream that trigger mast cell reactions. The

food proteins in the bloodstream are present because of the leaky nature of

the intestines. When the intestines are healthy and intact, the foods no

longer slip through the previously hyper permeable membrane and present to

the body in the manner that was biologically intended and no longer trigger

mast cell reactions.

What I'm wondering, though, is if leaky gut would be the only vehicle for

triggering the reaction, as is my assumption.

I know that's happened to me. I've had numerous ELISA tests, both before

and after allergies (IgG and IgE), appearance, over a period of 20 years. I

used to have a lot more allergies than I do now, and I think they were from

something like leaky gut, as you say, because I've been working on gut

issues for years. But, of late, the few foods that sometimes turn up in

testing as positive allergens are those foods that I've been eating a lot in

the few weeks prior to a test. >>

This is consistent with the experience of sooooo many people with gut

problems! The favorite foods are the offending ones. But that ties in with

leaky gut and IgG's. The more the food is eaten, the more undigested

molecules float through the bloodstream and the more hysterical the immune

system reaction, yk?

I'm due to go in soon and am trying not to over indulge in any one food, so

it will be interesting to see what happens this time. Although, I have to

say that, there are some foods which don't seem to create a reaction, no

matter how much I eat them. I'm guessing those are genetically 'my foods',

so to speak.....usually the! foods that most people find the least

allergenic.

> Carol

>

Oh, yeah, IKWYM. My guys tested postive for millet, rice, and bananas FCOL!

The " classic " hypoallergenic first foods for babies! OTOH, they blow

through 16 lbs of apples per week and have never demonstrated even the

slightest leanings toward reacting to them. The same with any particular

meat, of which we use primarily only three types. <knocking on forehead>

Certainly hope this doesn't change!

At some point, I'm going to have to sit down and wrap my brain around the

whole lectin issue....

--s

[Guest guest]

>>>At some point, I'm going to have to sit down and wrap my brain around the

whole lectin issue....>>>

The lectin issue is one reason I don't eat grains anymore. (They also give me

muscle cramps.) Have you seen this:

http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

Carol

--s

[Guest guest]

>>>>Also there is the zonulin issue: with a gluten IgA allergy, the intestine

becomes permeable in the presence of zonulin (even if it is intact).

Zonulin gets produced in response to the immune reaction. Maybe it

gets produced in response to other things as well? Or there is some

other hormone like it?<<<<<

~~~Zonulin is just part of the intestinal membrane. It's one of those cases

where some is necessary, but too much causes problems. Here's an article about

how that relates to celiac disease.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2001_June/ai_75178698

Carol

[Guest guest]

><nodding> I know this to be true. This is what I've gleaned from my

>readings, but I could be forming erroneous conclusions: IgG's are a result

>of food proteins in the bloodstream that trigger mast cell reactions. The

>food proteins in the bloodstream are present because of the leaky nature of

>the intestines. When the intestines are healthy and intact, the foods no

>longer slip through the previously hyper permeable membrane and present to

>the body in the manner that was biologically intended and no longer trigger

>mast cell reactions.

I tend to agree here. It is the norm in most of the world that people eat

a LOT of one food. Look at Price's natives. They might eat rice, rice,

and more rice ... or millet and more millet ... or beef and more beef.

Simply " eating a lot of one food " can't, I think, be bad in and of itself,

unless the food is one that really doesn't get along with humans well.

However, there has been work with mice that indicates that their

intestines develop differently as pups if they are in a sterile environment ...

bacterial populations prompt the development of the intestine. So it

could well be that our sterile food as babies (or lack of probiotics) or

antibiotics or some other feature sets our intestines up for a lifetime

of leakiness.

Also there is the zonulin issue: with a gluten IgA allergy, the intestine

becomes permeable in the presence of zonulin (even if it is intact).

Zonulin gets produced in response to the immune reaction. Maybe it

gets produced in response to other things as well? Or there is some

other hormone like it?

And there is the digestion issue: most of us don't digest certain proteins

like we should, which is one reason they reach the gut in the first

place.

And there is the breast feeding issue: breast feeding can 'train' the

body about what foods are ok. In a society that eats a stable

diet, the kid will be 'trained' that rice, say, is ok, by the time he's weaned.

And of course there is the paleo issue ... we just get so many new

foods from all over the world!

>

Heidi Jean