Re: LP Stereotypes and LPA

[Guest guest]

First, Bill, let me start off as saying I'm not here to stir the excriment,

I'm merely observing and adding my opinion where I feel its prudent.

Additionally, it should be noted I am NOT a member of the LPA for a list of

reasons I'll keep private until someone chooses to question why that may be.

As a fellow LP I don't think its beyond my place to raise these issues.

Furthermore, apparently I've become a man of innaction recently because of a

few of my less than positive posts to this group. It should be noted that I

have past involvment with the BSA, United way, and am currently an advisor

to the local Red Cross' board of directors as well as having a seat on the

marketing committee. I am not a person without a heart, sense of

phillanthropy, or who does not follow through on my convictions and

decisions.

I think it's time for a dose of reality.

Make no bones about it sir; my feet are planted firmly here on terra firma

with the rest of the population.

[Matt Thalken]

Matt T. writes:

>>There are LP's willing to partake in any degenerative activity for some

green, irregardless of the social impact participating in these roles has

for the rest of 'us'. And the LPA feels obligated to support them for

whatever reason.<<

Please provide a specific example of when LPA, as an organization, supported

any LP engaged in a degenerative activity? I need times, dates, people,

places.

Silence, as far as I'm concerned constitutes condolence. As a catholic, for

example, I am horrified, aghast, and deeply regretful that the catholic

church stood by idly during the second world war when they had full

knowledge of the German administrations policies towards minorities... to

put it politely. Inaction helps no one.

[Matt Thalken]

In the same post, you said the more people talk about these issues, the less

LPA seems to do. Then you equate inaction with implicit support. If LPA is

not for you, then they must be against you? It's not all black and white.

Normally I'd say you're putting words into my mouth here but since you got

the essence of it and have restated how I feel I wont object :-)

[Matt Thalken]

The MOST LPA can be accused of is taking a hands-off role, neither

supporting nor discouraging some choices within the entertainment field. In

the recent " Littlest Groom " debate, Matt Roloff neither supported nor

discouraged FOX from producing the show. And the opinions he expressed,

even as the president of LPA, are but ONE member's opinion. And even if he

did express the consensus opinion of the organization, it was probably the

RIGHT point of view.

I never stated that Mr. Roloff had supported or endorsed the littlest groom

during that debate, if you'll recall I had stated if he had, I would be very

disappointed, and I stand by that position. The fact of the matter is, if

this organization is not an organization of action but rather a group to

hold hands, it solves almost no problems and in the end supports no ones

overall interests.

[Matt Thalken]

Seriously, what else can LPA do, but remain neutral? We are a diverse

group, with diverse occupations, educations, beliefs and opinions. LPA is

here to SUPPORT dwarves, and their families, and not JUDGE them. Should we

start kicking people out of LPA who don't tow the politically correct line?

Sounds a little like fascism to me. LPA is an inclusive group. The only

requirement to join is being short, or being related to a short person.

In my estimation, to be blunt, yes. Fascism is a bad for government, it's a

poor way to rule over people's lives. However, when things need to get done

you don't see corporations taking votes on a management level to sort things

out. A dictatorship is not what I am advocating, achievement is. Policies

are developed and carried out come hell or high water, without motive what

the hell are we here for? Holding hands serves no one in the end. Sure we

all endure together, then what? Woopdeedoo someone else understands me, I

would venture to say that 99.5% of the members in the LPA don't need

sympathy. We need to accomplish something to better our lives and ourselves

in the long run.

[Matt Thalken]

LPA has publicly protested events like dwarf tossing, and the use of the

M-word. But until our membership swells to the ranks of the NAACP, and our

budget starts to equal that of the United Way, we are not going to be

mounting any " million-man marches " or sponsoring constitutional amendments.

Why don't we have the ranks of the NAACP? Why is the budget poor? Why aren't

we marching? With a 1/20,000 likelihood (or so I've read) of a child being

born an LP I'm sure there is an exponential number of prospective members

next to those that exist. Additionally, I have never and will never advocate

constitutional amendments. The constitution is not a toy to serve you or I,

it is the rights and laws we have set up for us, the people, to govern the

government. Once more, I fail to see how an organization such as the LPA

would suffer from a proactive position rather than a hand holding

reactionary group crying session.

[Matt Thalken]

Put your money where you mouth is. Instead of griping about what LPA should

or should not be doing, volunteer your time, money and/or effort to the

organization. Get involved. Become a chapter president. Run for office.

Host a meeting. Print a newsletter. Write letters to you newspapers and

congressman. Work to make the changes within the organization you'd like to

see, instead of flaming those who are doing the lion's share of the work.

From the LPA website, what I would assume equates to a charter or mission

statement

" Little People of America, Inc. (LPA), will assist dwarfs with their

physical and developmental concerns resulting from short stature. By

providing medical, environmental, educational, vocational, and parental

guidance, short-statured individuals and their families may enhance their

lives and lifestyles with minimal limitations. Through peer support and

personal example, our members will be supportive of all those who reach out

to LPA. Lastly, by networking with national and international growth-related

and genetic-support groups, LPA will enhance knowledge and support of

short-statured individuals "

That says nothing about activism to advance Little People's role or standing

in society at large. Furthermore it makes no connotations about any activism

whatsoever. Were the charter/mission adjusted to reflect what I feel SHOULD

be the goals of the LPA I might be more inclined to 'get involved' as you

put it.

[Matt Thalken]

In closing, I'd like to remind everyone that these are MY opinions as a

member of LPA, and not as the List Moderator. This list is NOT affiliated

with LPA.

Bill Bradford

I don't mean to sounds like a smartass, but if my views have become too

extreme for this group at least let me hear what others might have to say

before removal or asking me to part from this list. Like I said at the

beginning, I have not come to stir the pot, I'm merely making observations

as 1 little person. [Matt Thalken]

[Guest guest]

Hello all,

I was reading both posts with this topic name and wanted to

reply. This is loosly based on the posts but in a way related. I

think in general it is not fair to base LPA on this listserve. This

is a place were we can discuss anything and everything dwarf related

which, sometimes can get heated. I disagree with some of what

people say but I have respect for them. Second, I don't appreciate

people attacking or assuming what LPA does if they have never been

in it or do not know their policies. LPA has never said anything to

me with what I can or can't do with my life. If I chose to be the

naked dwarf girl on tv I am sure I would not be kicked out.

Honestly for me I wish lpa would take a stand on some issues but as

Bill said on some things its best to remain neutral. Third if you

don't like something then try to change it, be proactive instead of

reactive, take initiative and change things. I am currently doing

so but sitting here bad mouthing or being negative is not going to

change anything, it will just make you look disgruntled.

Lastly think of the overall picture of LPA and the good it has

done. It has supported so many new families who needed help when

their babies were born with dwarfism. The scholarships it has

provided as well as resources, the confidence it has given some of

its members of all ages. To me that is the heart of LPA and what a

wonderful thing it is!

-

[Guest guest]

Well said, ! You've captured my thoughts perfectly.

Personally, I'm all for dwarf advocacy, and proactive measures to raise public

awareness about dwarfism. I wish dwarves didn't have to take on humiliating

roles that perpetuate derogatory stereotypes. Actually, let me rephrase that:

I wish society were enlightened enough to realize that a dwarf playing an Oompa

Loompa, or Mini-Me, was not representative of dwarf culture, and was an

individual choice as an actor. I wish we were all free to make fools of

ourselves, and no one bats an eye.

But attacking LPA for not taking the lead on this is like attacking the Girl

Scouts for not protesting the war on Iraq. IT'S NOT THEIR JOB. Perhaps there

does need to be an advocacy group that does this. But given the limited

resources of LPA, I would rather see them continue to do what they do best:

supporting parents of newborn LPs; providing expert medical information; and

promoting networking and socialization among dwarves. Trust me folks, life

before LPA was a hell of lot worse than it is now. I thank our LPA forefathers,

and our parents, who laid the foundation for what we have now. And I am

thankful for people like Matt Roloff, who are trying take LPA to the next level,

despite the bitter, angry, naysayers.

Matt T.'s attacks on LPA is like those people who bitch about the government,

yet refuse to vote. There's a term for those people: blowhards.

Bill Bradford

Re: LP Stereotypes and LPA

Hello all,

I was reading both posts with this topic name and wanted to

reply. This is loosly based on the posts but in a way related. I

think in general it is not fair to base LPA on this listserve. This

is a place were we can discuss anything and everything dwarf related

which, sometimes can get heated. I disagree with some of what

people say but I have respect for them. Second, I don't appreciate

people attacking or assuming what LPA does if they have never been

in it or do not know their policies. LPA has never said anything to

me with what I can or can't do with my life. If I chose to be the

naked dwarf girl on tv I am sure I would not be kicked out.

Honestly for me I wish lpa would take a stand on some issues but as

Bill said on some things its best to remain neutral. Third if you

don't like something then try to change it, be proactive instead of

reactive, take initiative and change things. I am currently doing

so but sitting here bad mouthing or being negative is not going to

change anything, it will just make you look disgruntled.

Lastly think of the overall picture of LPA and the good it has

done. It has supported so many new families who needed help when

their babies were born with dwarfism. The scholarships it has

provided as well as resources, the confidence it has given some of

its members of all ages. To me that is the heart of LPA and what a

wonderful thing it is!

-

===

[Guest guest]

Matt, you wrote:

I don't mean to sounds like a smartass, but if my views have become too extreme

for this group at least let me hear what others might have to say before removal

or asking me to part from this list. Like I said at the beginning, I have not

come to stir the pot, I'm merely making observations as 1 little person. [Matt

Thalken]

Where in my post did I say I would ban you or censor you for expressing your

opinion? Or even consider doing so? As long as you don't violate the

established listserve guidelines, you are free to express yourself as you see

fit. Pot stirring is fine. Fire away at LPA, it's a free country. Just don't

be surprised if someone fires back.

Bill Bradford

RE: LP Stereotypes and LPA

First, Bill, let me start off as saying I'm not here to stir the excriment,

I'm merely observing and adding my opinion where I feel its prudent.

Additionally, it should be noted I am NOT a member of the LPA for a list of

reasons I'll keep private until someone chooses to question why that may be. As

a fellow LP I don't think its beyond my place to raise these issues.

Furthermore, apparently I've become a man of innaction recently because of a

few of my less than positive posts to this group. It should be noted that I have

past involvment with the BSA, United way, and am currently an advisor to the

local Red Cross' board of directors as well as having a seat on the marketing

committee. I am not a person without a heart, sense of phillanthropy, or who

does not follow through on my convictions and decisions.

I think it's time for a dose of reality.

Make no bones about it sir; my feet are planted firmly here on terra firma

with the rest of the population.

[Matt Thalken]

Matt T. writes:

>>There are LP's willing to partake in any degenerative activity for some

green, irregardless of the social impact participating in these roles has

for the rest of 'us'. And the LPA feels obligated to support them for

whatever reason.<<

Please provide a specific example of when LPA, as an organization, supported

any LP engaged in a degenerative activity? I need times, dates, people, places.

Silence, as far as I'm concerned constitutes condolence. As a catholic, for

example, I am horrified, aghast, and deeply regretful that the catholic church

stood by idly during the second world war when they had full knowledge of the

German administrations policies towards minorities... to put it politely.

Inaction helps no one.

[Matt Thalken]

In the same post, you said the more people talk about these issues, the less

LPA seems to do. Then you equate inaction with implicit support. If LPA is not

for you, then they must be against you? It's not all black and white.

Normally I'd say you're putting words into my mouth here but since you got the

essence of it and have restated how I feel I wont object J

[Matt Thalken]

The MOST LPA can be accused of is taking a hands-off role, neither supporting

nor discouraging some choices within the entertainment field. In the recent

" Littlest Groom " debate, Matt Roloff neither supported nor discouraged FOX from

producing the show. And the opinions he expressed, even as the president of

LPA, are but ONE member's opinion. And even if he did express the consensus

opinion of the organization, it was probably the RIGHT point of view.

I never stated that Mr. Roloff had supported or endorsed the littlest groom

during that debate, if you'll recall I had stated if he had, I would be very

disappointed, and I stand by that position. The fact of the matter is, if this

organization is not an organization of action but rather a group to hold hands,

it solves almost no problems and in the end supports no ones overall interests.

[Matt Thalken]

Seriously, what else can LPA do, but remain neutral? We are a diverse group,

with diverse occupations, educations, beliefs and opinions. LPA is here to

SUPPORT dwarves, and their families, and not JUDGE them. Should we start

kicking people out of LPA who don't tow the politically correct line? Sounds a

little like fascism to me. LPA is an inclusive group. The only requirement to

join is being short, or being related to a short person.

In my estimation, to be blunt, yes. Fascism is a bad for government, it's a

poor way to rule over people's lives. However, when things need to get done you

don't see corporations taking votes on a management level to sort things out. A

dictatorship is not what I am advocating, achievement is. Policies are developed

and carried out come hell or high water, without motive what the hell are we

here for? Holding hands serves no one in the end. Sure we all endure together,

then what? Woopdeedoo someone else understands me, I would venture to say that

99.5% of the members in the LPA don't need sympathy. We need to accomplish

something to better our lives and ourselves in the long run.

[Matt Thalken]

LPA has publicly protested events like dwarf tossing, and the use of the

M-word. But until our membership swells to the ranks of the NAACP, and our

budget starts to equal that of the United Way, we are not going to be mounting

any " million-man marches " or sponsoring constitutional amendments.

Why don't we have the ranks of the NAACP? Why is the budget poor? Why aren't

we marching? With a 1/20,000 likelihood (or so I've read) of a child being born

an LP I'm sure there is an exponential number of prospective members next to

those that exist. Additionally, I have never and will never advocate

constitutional amendments. The constitution is not a toy to serve you or I, it

is the rights and laws we have set up for us, the people, to govern the

government. Once more, I fail to see how an organization such as the LPA would

suffer from a proactive position rather than a hand holding reactionary group

crying session.

[Matt Thalken]

Put your money where you mouth is. Instead of griping about what LPA should

or should not be doing, volunteer your time, money and/or effort to the

organization. Get involved. Become a chapter president. Run for office. Host

a meeting. Print a newsletter. Write letters to you newspapers and

congressman. Work to make the changes within the organization you'd like to

see, instead of flaming those who are doing the lion's share of the work.

From the LPA website, what I would assume equates to a charter or mission

statement

" Little People of America, Inc. (LPA), will assist dwarfs with their physical

and developmental concerns resulting from short stature. By providing medical,

environmental, educational, vocational, and parental guidance, short-statured

individuals and their families may enhance their lives and lifestyles with

minimal limitations. Through peer support and personal example, our members will

be supportive of all those who reach out to LPA. Lastly, by networking with

national and international growth-related and genetic-support groups, LPA will

enhance knowledge and support of short-statured individuals "

That says nothing about activism to advance Little People's role or standing

in society at large. Furthermore it makes no connotations about any activism

whatsoever. Were the charter/mission adjusted to reflect what I feel SHOULD be

the goals of the LPA I might be more inclined to 'get involved' as you put it.

[Matt Thalken]

In closing, I'd like to remind everyone that these are MY opinions as a member

of LPA, and not as the List Moderator. This list is NOT affiliated with LPA.

Bill Bradford

I don't mean to sounds like a smartass, but if my views have become too

extreme for this group at least let me hear what others might have to say before

removal or asking me to part from this list. Like I said at the beginning, I

have not come to stir the pot, I'm merely making observations as 1 little

person. [Matt Thalken]

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Matt Thalken wrote:

> The fact of the matter is, if this organization is not an organization

> of action but rather a group to hold hands, it solves almost no problems

> and in the end supports no ones overall interests.

Matt, I agree. And the good news is, LPA is an organization of action.

However, one of the unfortunate expections that people have in this day

and age is one of instant gratification. There seems to be an attitude of

" if I'm not seeing anything that's helping ME today, then nothing is

happening. "

The truth is, a lot is happening in LPA right now. In the past year I've

personally donated over 1,000 hours of my time to LPA to make some of them

happen. If you want some evidence, see http://www.lpa-medical.org. See the

new newsletter. See how much the money LPA's new Development Office has

raised since September.

Change takes more than just words -- it takes money, hard work, time,

patience, and risk. In LPA, despite recent success, all of these remain in

extremely short supply.

You say that if LPA's Mission more closely reflected your own views, then

you would become involved. Well, my friend, that is the chicken and the

egg.

You may have more power than you think. If you were to become involved, I

am telling you that you could effect significant influence on LPA's

Mission and direction. If you want a new chicken, be the egg.

The people who actually accomplish things in this world are those who are

brave enough to go out on a limb, and brave enough to stay out there while

everyone else is trying to shake them off.

Be the egg.

-Dave