B12 (was: vegetarianism and libido)

[Guest guest]

> Suze, I don't know why you have to keep disagreeing with this research.

> Lancaster Labs is an independent lab and does not manufacture AFA.

Even better then! (Although I didn't say they *were* the manufacturer - I

said they were the lab the manufacturer uses.) Assuming the lab has no

vested interest in whether or not AFA contains B12, Celltech, the AFA

manufacturer, says that the lancaster lab assays are are

not considered to be reliable in determining the content of true b12,

therefore without other more accurate testing methods, this method

alone should not be relied upon to assess the vit. b12 content of AFA.

And

> the answer is still is the same - AFA is a reliable source of

> bioavailable B12. You can argue with me all you want, but that is a

> fact, and your arguments will not change fact.

Well, I still find it curious that you consider this to be a fact when the

manufacturer itself disputes your claim in one of their statements. I will

again paste the quote direct from Celltech:

" Please note that, *******although SBGA has demonstrable B12 activity, it

should not be relied upon as the sole source of the vitamin********. "

I'm not sure what you find unclear about that?

> " Scientific studies (Lancet, Jan. 30, 1988; JAMA, Dec. 17, 1982) using

> different brands of spirulina demonstrated that nearly 80% of

> spirulina's vitamin B12 content is not bioavailable, meaning that your

> body is unable to utilize it. The conclusion of these reports included a

> warning against over-consumption of spirulina because it induced

> pernicious anemia in a number of people. However, an unpublished

> preliminary study conducted at the University of Connecticut confirmed

> the bioavailability of the vitamin B12 found in Super Blue Green Algae.

> The SBGA strain, Aphanizomenon flos-aquae, has also been tested by

> independent labs for B12 analog levels using microbiological testing

> methods that are comparable to methods of the Association of Official

> Analytical Chemists. Vitamin B12, which is in the corrinoid family,

> contains four main analogs (cyanocobalamin, hydroxycobalamin,

> aquacobalamin and methylcobalamin) that show significant bioactivity.

> The testing results on SBGA, while not discerning exactly which

> corrinoids are present, indicate significant B12 activity. Therefore,

> unlike other plant foods that contain corrinoids with virtually no

> vitamin B12 activity, SBGA is shown to be a reliable source for

> vegetarians seeking to supplement their diets with a bioactive form of

> this important nutrient. "

Don't you find it curious that Celltech is on the one hand saying " Please

note that, although SBGA has demonstrable B12 activity, it should not be

relied upon as the sole source of the vitamin " and on the other hand saying

" SBGA is shown to be a reliable source for vegetarians seeking to supplement

their diets with a bioactive form of this important nutrient " ? (Note -

there's nothing in this statement about it being safe to use as the *sole*

source of B12). Aside from that, has anyone bothered to follow up on this

" unpublished scientific study " to see if it actually has any merit? Or are

vegan consumers basing their health on this one unconfirmed study? You know,

I could trot out a study proving that Chris' mom is beyond a doubt a 2000

year-old alien from the planet Zorg and his dad is in fact a reincarnation

of the apostle , albeit with 3 heads. That doesn't make it " fact " .

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Good Grief!!!

This is not the case - it no longer says that on the website. It has

been proven to be a reliable source of B12, just like their website

says. I'm sure you will do further research, and there is really no

reason to clog up this list with your rantings, so please take it off

list from now on.

Carol

-----Original Message-----

From: Suze Fisher [mailto:s.fisher22@...]

" Please note that, *******although SBGA has demonstrable B12 activity,

[Guest guest]

>

> > I could trot out a study proving that Chris' mom is beyond a doubt a

2000

> > year-old alien from the planet Zorg and his dad is in fact a

reincarnation

> > of the apostle , albeit with 3 heads. That doesn't make it " fact " .

>

> Suze, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you insinuating that the

> studies showing these heretofore undisputed facts are actually *not*

correct? Or

> are you merely suggesting that we can't accept them as " proof? "

I'm only saying we can't accept them as " proof " . Especially since the

Zorgians sponsored the " preliminary unpublished study " on your mom's roots

(which is the entire basis of her Zorgian ancestry claims) and had their

usual Zorgian agenda, and the usual cast of rent-a-Zorgian-scientists

conduct the study.

>

> I don't appreciate you questioning the identity of my parents, upon which

I

> base my self-knowledge, my understanding of my very being, and my place in

the

> world, for the sake of making an unrelated point.

You are right - I apologize. I should've used a different study as an

anology - such as the one done proving that Bush is actually your

mom's former Zorgian lover. (I don't mean to make you further question your

identity, but you do have dubyah's beady eyes...)

If I can't know the

> self-evident truisms that my mom is Zorgian and my dad is a

thrice-cephalated

> Apostle, then what do I even know about myself?

>

> I suddenly feel so lost.

>

> --chris, perhaps, or otherwise

Again, sorry to bring up those particular studies, Otherwise. :-/

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

> Good Grief!!!

>

> This is not the case - it no longer says that on the website. It has

> been proven to be a reliable source of B12, just like their website

> says. I'm sure you will do further research, and there is really no

> reason to clog up this list with your rantings, so please take it off

> list from now on.

>

> Carol

No need to get upset. OK, so Celltech now claims, based on a single

preliminary unpublished study, that their product is a reliable source of

B12? Or do they have more than that to offer as " proof " ? It could possibly

have adequate B12, but I think Celltech should certainly offer more than a

single_unpublished_preliminary_study as their " proof " since, if this study's

findings cannot be verified, it could have serious health consequences for

those believing the Celltech marketing materials and relying on AFA as their

sole B12 source.

Additionally, there is still the sticky problem of the presence of analogs.

If AFA contains analogs, that may negate the B12 content since they

interfere with absorption.

I imagine if Celltech really wanted to know the truth they might invest in a

study on this themselves - have an independent lab do it using a protocol

and assay method that is beyond reproach. Then do it again.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------