Re: Howdy, and Inquiry About EMF Detox Symptoms

August 28, 2006

Welcome to , Vinny!

I've tried a lot of EMF protection devices over the years, and

have a variety of reactions to them. In some cases, I'm never

sure if they are really " detox " reactions or simply " bad reactions " .

Generally, if it only lasts a few days/weeks and then goes away, I'd

classify it as a detox reaction. If it continues and gets worse, then

I tend to classify that as a " bad reaction " , although it certainly

could be a detox symptom that my elimination systems cannot deal

with.

The items from Quantum Products certainly caused me some initial

fatigue, nausea, etc. I initially noticed this with two of their

power strips plugged into outlets in my house. Later when I got

the stronger items such as the Quantum Pro, I found that the

detox symptoms never fully went away (not even now, 5 years later),

but I certainly find it beneficial in short bursts at the

lower settings.

Springlife Polarizers also caused me an initial detox. After

about 15 minutes exposure to the OM pendant, I was feeling

bad and had to get it away from me. Over the next few weeks

I was able to build up my tolerance to it, but again, even

now, several years later, I only use the smaller items from them,

as the larger ones will make me feel bad within an hour.

I had a similar initial reaction to the Electromagnetic Pollution

Rectifier pendants from BeWisePolarize.com. This reaction

did eventually go away.

The pendants sold at Earthcalm.com cause me to get all sweaty

and I get a headache after a short while. I've never been

able to build up much of a tolerance to these, but I'm

pretty sure this a detox reaction.

Some of the devices I've tried cause a completely different

reaction -- chest pains and panic attacks. I think this

may also be a detox reaction, as I've had this same

reaction from certain detoxifying supplements (e.g, Modifilan,

Natural Cellular Defense). Examples of these are the " Safe

Space II " , " Environmental Protection Card " , and " Personal

Rejuvenizer Pendant " .

Certainly there have been products that have provoked no

initial detox reaction. However, these products seem to

have produced no noticeable EMF protection effect either

(e.g Clarus Q-Link, Bioelectric Shield, Teslar watch).

Since I haven't kept good notes, I can't really even

say at this point how many devices I've tried (I'm sure

that it's well over 30). I'd say that less than half

have caused a detox or bad reaction, while more than

half appeared to do little to nothing.

As for the " longest period " of detox, I can't really

say on that, as I usually back off or discontinue anything

that is causing a long-term detox reaction. I don't

really think that's a healthy thing to do, as the

rest of your body probably can't handle all those

toxins and you're probably causing redistribution

of toxins. I'd even say that EMF protection devices

are a poor way to detoxify, as there is no physical

substance to bind to the toxins and escort them

out of the system. Although using them in moderation

and combining them with increased use of water,

fiber, and antioxidants seems to work well.

> Have you ever experienced detox effects such as

> blurred vision or heaviness, or diffulty in drawing a

> deep breath, coupled with intense fatigue?

I've certainly had difficulty in getting enough

oxygen, although an oxygen supplement like Cellfood

gets me through that problem. I can't recall

blurred vision, although that sounds like a symptom

of mobilized toxins.

My advice is to simply not overdo it. I choose to

keep myself at " just the edge " , where I still

feel good, but I know that if I do just a little bit

more, then I'll start feeling bad from the detox.

This keeps me functional, but the downside is

that it seems to be never-ending... I've been

doing this " low level detox " for 6 years and

counting...

Marc

August 28, 2006

....oh, and on the subject of EMF protection device vendors

being upfront about possible detox symptoms, I'd say that

this varies. In some cases, I'll phone the manufacturer

and they'll say that they've never heard of such a reaction.

In other cases, vendors will affirm that it can cause an

initial detox reaction, but won't put that in their marketing

materials or their user instructions.

Off the top of my head, Earthcalm and Dimensional Design

deserve credit for warning their users that they may

experience initial detox effects from their products.

And indeed, these are two lines of products that I don't

use on a regular basis because of my strong reaction to

them.

Marc

August 28, 2006

> as I get a bit tired of non-stop detox symptoms...

Of course, when detox symptoms become " non-stop " , one

must question whether they are detox symptoms at all.

I'm sure that there are people on this list (me included)

who wonder if whatever these devices do are even *good*

for you! I mean, sure, we see reports of people feeling

better and having better energy, but I think someone

who is addicted to caffeine would report the same

benefits from a cup of coffee! What I would like to

see is some evidence of someone becoming much healthier

as a result of using these devices. I guess that

I could consider myself as being one of those people,

but you should note that I use these devices as little

as I can get away with, and do not subscribe to the

belief that " more is better " .

Also Vinny, if you're producing coherent devices, I

hope you've taken a look at what's already available

from Quantum Products, Green 8, RA*D*AR cards, etc.

Some of these items are pretty cheap, and some

have been around for a long time. Also, as someone

who is sensitive to having too much of this type

of energy, I can say that it's really nice that

some of the items from Quantum Products have an

adjustable strength setting, and most importantly,

the ability to turn them *off* (something that you

cannot do with many devices)

Marc

August 28, 2006

Hi Marc:

Thanks for your note. Comments below!

At 12:20 PM 8/28/2006, you wrote:

>Welcome to , Vinny!

>

>I've tried a lot of EMF protection devices over the years, and

>have a variety of reactions to them. In some cases, I'm never

>sure if they are really " detox " reactions or simply " bad reactions " .

>Generally, if it only lasts a few days/weeks and then goes away, I'd

>classify it as a detox reaction. If it continues and gets worse, then

>I tend to classify that as a " bad reaction " , although it certainly

>could be a detox symptom that my elimination systems cannot deal

>with.

Yes, ove the years I think that I have gotten a pretty good sense of

what is a detox reaction and what is simply distasteful or toxic, and

more and more, I find that the intuitive sense can also tell me.

However, in general, if the symptoms last a short time, such as a

couple of days to perhaps three weeks, and if they finally wind down

leaving me feeling better than before, then I feel that it was

usually a detox symptom. Strangely, there are some raw diets out

there where the self-appointed " diet gurus " (usually rigid

fundamentalists) claim that an adherent will undergo seriuos and

painful detox symptoms for the first 30 to 45 years, or longer. One

such guru has recently publicly announced that his own detox, which

he had orignally announced would last for 33 years, will now last for

45 or more years. To me, this is insanity!

>The items from Quantum Products certainly caused me some initial

>fatigue, nausea, etc. I initially noticed this with two of their

>power strips plugged into outlets in my house. Later when I got

>the stronger items such as the Quantum Pro, I found that the

>detox symptoms never fully went away (not even now, 5 years later),

>but I certainly find it beneficial in short bursts at the

>lower settings.

Interesting!

>Springlife Polarizers also caused me an initial detox. After

>about 15 minutes exposure to the OM pendant, I was feeling

>bad and had to get it away from me. Over the next few weeks

>I was able to build up my tolerance to it, but again, even

>now, several years later, I only use the smaller items from them,

>as the larger ones will make me feel bad within an hour.

>

>I had a similar initial reaction to the Electromagnetic Pollution

>Rectifier pendants from BeWisePolarize.com. This reaction

>did eventually go away.

>

>The pendants sold at Earthcalm.com cause me to get all sweaty

>and I get a headache after a short while. I've never been

>able to build up much of a tolerance to these, but I'm

>pretty sure this a detox reaction.

>

>Some of the devices I've tried cause a completely different

>reaction -- chest pains and panic attacks. I think this

>may also be a detox reaction, as I've had this same

>reaction from certain detoxifying supplements (e.g, Modifilan,

>Natural Cellular Defense). Examples of these are the " Safe

>Space II " , " Environmental Protection Card " , and " Personal

>Rejuvenizer Pendant " .

Interesting... thanks!

>Certainly there have been products that have provoked no

>initial detox reaction. However, these products seem to

>have produced no noticeable EMF protection effect either

>(e.g Clarus Q-Link, Bioelectric Shield, Teslar watch).

Well, the Clarus technology is a bit interesting. The vendor admits

that the device is an intent-based radionic-imprinted device, and

they state in their marketing material that the primary purpose of

the pendants is to amplify the paterns of the biofield/aura, to make

it more resistant to any external insults or stresses. This is very

different from the quantum smoothing devices, which largely ignore

the biofield and aura, except to the extent that a person (who will,

of course, " own " and aura/biofield may occupy the space enveloped in

the area treatment.

I have an acquaintance who is a very good clairvoyant, and he reports

that of all the devices he has ever been given to test -- and there

have been many (no, has not yet tested mine) -- he has found, using

his clairvoyant vision, that only the Clarus pendant instantly

improves and strengthens the aura of the wearer, although he concedes

that this does not necessarly mean that the Clarus pendant helps to

protect the wearer against EMF stresses. In fact, he reports that

many of the pendants and larger devices which he has been sent by

other vendors -- including some very high end pendants selling in the

$700 to $2,500 price range, and some area devices selling in the

$1,000 to $5,000 range, have instantly felt so toxic or so harsh that

he literally had to immediately walk them across the house and stash

them somewhere FAR away from him. I have asked him if some of this

could be due to detox (he is very famliar with detox) but he does not

seem very convinced that this is why those devices simply felt " bad "

to him. In fact, he has been given some highly touted and very

expensive devices to test -- again using his clairvoyant sense and

some intuition -- and has felt that they offered no benefit or were

harmful. Now, the funny thing is that he admits that some of the

devices which he has nixed are devices which friends and

acquaintances of his love very much, and feel that they are helping

them very much. And, vice versa, even though he " approves " of the

Clarus pendants, we both know people who feel no beneficial effects from them.

I assume that this dissonance and contrast is due to individual

response across persons to variuos devices, but it may also be due to

some particular " slant " or flavor of his clairvoyant gift and

intuitive gift. In my case, I am a pretty good intuitive, and I have

been presented with many devices over the years by people who were

very enthsuiastic about them, and my inner sense instantly said

either " No, no effect, do not bother " or " No, very little effect, not

worth it " , and yet I had friends or acquaintances who loved the

devices (some of them very pricey.) On the other hand, there have

been devices on the market which I felt were quite solid and

beneficial, and yet some friends and acquaintances found little or no

benefit from them.

And, while on the topic of Clarus pendants, one funny and brief

Clarus Qlink story: I mentioned earlier that I have owned a Clarus

Qlink pendant since 1991 or 1992, and have owned and used (in my home

office) the Clarus clock and power strip since 1991 or 1992, although

I have noticed little effect from them. In 1999 or 2000, I purchase a

new Qlink pendant as I had lost the original pendant. With this new

pendant (a newer technology, according to Clarus), I found that I

could not wear it for more than an hour without feeling what felt

like a " harsh " effect; my intuition told me that this was not a detox

and that the effect was undesirable. Interestingly, after three years

of ingesting lots of EM-fermented (beneficial microbes plus

antioxidants produced by them) products and witnessing some nice

health improvements due to that, I suddenly found a few months ago

that I could not wear the QLink pendant without any of my former

complaints, and that it seemed to help me a bit as well.

>Since I haven't kept good notes, I can't really even

>say at this point how many devices I've tried (I'm sure

>that it's well over 30). I'd say that less than half

>have caused a detox or bad reaction, while more than

>half appeared to do little to nothing.

About the same here, and some felt downright toxic...

>As for the " longest period " of detox, I can't really

>say on that, as I usually back off or discontinue anything

>that is causing a long-term detox reaction.

Yes, my own limit is about 3 to 3.5 weeks, and afte that I tend to

back off, even if my intuition continues to assure me that it is only detox.

>I don't

>really think that's a healthy thing to do, as the

>rest of your body probably can't handle all those

>toxins and you're probably causing redistribution

>of toxins. I'd even say that EMF protection devices

>are a poor way to detoxify, as there is no physical

>substance to bind to the toxins and escort them

>out of the system. Although using them in moderation

>and combining them with increased use of water,

>fiber, and antioxidants seems to work well.

For me, water and lots of antioxidants, particularly in the form of

EM microbial liquids, seem to help a lot. Sleep also helps!

> > Have you ever experienced detox effects such as

> > blurred vision or heaviness, or diffulty in drawing a

> > deep breath, coupled with intense fatigue?

>

>I've certainly had difficulty in getting enough

>oxygen, although an oxygen supplement like Cellfood

>gets me through that problem. I can't recall

>blurred vision, although that sounds like a symptom

>of mobilized toxins.

Yes, this is one is starting to surface among some users of my

devices -- myself included -- who had lots of mercury in their bodies

at one tie.

>My advice is to simply not overdo it.

Exactly!

>I choose to

>keep myself at " just the edge " , where I still

>feel good, but I know that if I do just a little bit

>more, then I'll start feeling bad from the detox.

>This keeps me functional, but the downside is

>that it seems to be never-ending... I've been

>doing this " low level detox " for 6 years and

>counting...

Ouch! I have been far luckier -- my detoxes have ben infrequent and

never last more than a few days to a few weeks at most. If I were in

your shoes, noticing those same symptoms, I might wish to play with

ingesting some EM antioxidative microbial products, perhaps a

food-grade EM culture such as SCD's Efficient Microbes(EM) (

www.scdworld.com ; feel free to use my discount code of VP2004 to get

a 7% discount on product price), perhaps starting with one tablespoon

three times per day, and, if I had a history of health problems, I

would likely also take, for the first two months, another

EM-fermented liquid from SCD called Xtra(EM) (unsterilized version)

as well, as this contains some powerful electron shuttle nutrients

which can potentize the antioxidants in the EM and in the diet. And,

if I had a major problem with health and energy, I would likely

ingest a fulvic acid product for about four to six months, along, of

course, with some EM.

with care,

--Vinny

Vinny Pinto

vinny@...

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:

http://www.vinnypinto.us

August 28, 2006

Hi Marc:

Yes, some ignore it, some engage in outright denial, and others point

out that it may pop up in the early stages.

I wonder if your ongoing reaction to the Earthcalm and DD devices is

true detox or just that your body does not like the effects?

with care,

--Vinny

At 12:37 PM 8/28/2006, you wrote:

>...oh, and on the subject of EMF protection device vendors

>being upfront about possible detox symptoms, I'd say that

>this varies. In some cases, I'll phone the manufacturer

>and they'll say that they've never heard of such a reaction.

>In other cases, vendors will affirm that it can cause an

>initial detox reaction, but won't put that in their marketing

>materials or their user instructions.

>

>Off the top of my head, Earthcalm and Dimensional Design

>deserve credit for warning their users that they may

>experience initial detox effects from their products.

>And indeed, these are two lines of products that I don't

>use on a regular basis because of my strong reaction to

>them.

>

>Marc

>

Vinny Pinto

vinny@...

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:

http://www.vinnypinto.us

August 28, 2006

> I might wish to play with

> ingesting some EM antioxidative microbial products, perhaps a

> food-grade EM culture such as SCD's Efficient Microbes(EM) (

> www.scdworld.com

Thanks! I'll look into that -- I've certainly had good (although

temporary) results from some of the stronger antioxidants on

the market -- Microhydrin, Mega-H, Amrit, etc. (no effect

at all from ascorbic acid), but haven't tried any EM products.

Marc

August 28, 2006

> I wonder if your ongoing reaction to the Earthcalm and DD devices is

> true detox or just that your body does not like the effects?

I had the Earthcalm pendant once sent to Townsend, who

used to run Bioharmonics.com and sold Springlife Polarizers.

Her testing indicated that the pendant was " mostly beneficial " ,

but could stress a few body systems because it was not perfectly

in balance (she claimed that the Springlife Polarizers were

in perfect balance).

I also took the pendant to my nutritionist, who is also intuitive,

and she felt that it was " too grounding " , whatever that means...

I got the impression that she thought a person's energy should

flow a bit more freely than this pendant was allowing.

I did find the pendant to be beneficial in short bursts (e.g.,

an hour at a time), but ultimately I lost it and never replaced

it.

Marc

August 28, 2006

Hi Marc:

Thanks for your note. A few brief comments inserted interlined below,

and then I must get back to my lab; it is 4 PM and I have not yet

gotten started today in the lab, and I can hear all the lonely

electrons and protons and subspace quantum fields calling to me!

More below!

At 01:16 PM 8/28/2006, you wrote:

> > as I get a bit tired of non-stop detox symptoms...

>

>Of course, when detox symptoms become " non-stop " , one

>must question whether they are detox symptoms at all.

Yes, I always assume it is a toxic effect if it lasts more than 3.5

weeks. This new Violet Light of Peace device of mine resulted in a

very strong detox effect that lasted for a bit over 3 weeks, and I

eventually moved it out of the house a few times to get a break even

though my intution (and also advice from other intuitives) warned me

that this was necessary, and that the detox would soon pass. It did

finally pass, and I have found a new level of energy and clarity (and

calm) then before, and I find too that I can go deeper more easily in

my meditaitions and intuitive work, but that 3 week cleansing was

about my limit, in terms of my patience!

>I'm sure that there are people on this list (me included)

>who wonder if whatever these devices do are even *good*

>for you! I mean, sure, we see reports of people feeling

>better and having better energy, but I think someone

>who is addicted to caffeine would report the same

>benefits from a cup of coffee!

I can almost certainly say that some of the devices being marketed

are likely not beneficial for most people, and that some may be

downright harmful for many people. I am starting to rely more and

more on inner intuitive guidance in picking and choosing among such

devices, and even whether to use them at all.

>What I would like to

>see is some evidence of someone becoming much healthier

>as a result of using these devices. I guess that

>I could consider myself as being one of those people,

>but you should note that I use these devices as little

>as I can get away with, and do not subscribe to the

>belief that " more is better " .

Yes, I am a minimalist too. Drinking water is a good example: We live

in the mountains of Western land in a wilderness area, and we use

moutain well water, and a good number of visitors to our home are

always SHOCKED to discover that I employ absolutely ZERO (zilch,

none) water filtration or water treatment, and that my tap water

comes directly from the well via the cold water storage tank, even

replete with a bit of clay on some days.

In fact, until I came up with the latest generation of my devices, I

never even regularly used my earlier generation(s) of my own

protective devices regularly, although my one concession has been to

keep the two Clarus devices (clock, power strip) running at all times

in my home office area. Of coure, with what Bill Tiller (aka Dr.

Tiller) is now saying about " effect fade " over time in the

intent-based radionic-type devices such as the Clarus devices, some

of my friends are teasingly telling me that the effects of my two

Clarus devices -- both purchased in 1991 or 1992 -- may have faded to

nothingness long ago!

>Also Vinny, if you're producing coherent devices, I

>hope you've taken a look at what's already available

>from Quantum Products, Green 8, RA*D*AR cards, etc.

I am very aware of the devices which are often available on the

market in this field. In fact, I have worked as a consultant over the

years for some of the companies producing such devices, and currently

work as a consultant for two companies which market very high-end

devices, one for humans, and the other for electronic equipment and

computer centers. Obviously, for proprieary and confidentialty

reasons, I cannot reveal anything more about those clients!

>Some of these items are pretty cheap, and some

>have been around for a long time. Also, as someone

>who is sensitive to having too much of this type

>of energy, I can say that it's really nice that

>some of the items from Quantum Products have an

>adjustable strength setting, and most importantly,

>the ability to turn them *off* (something that you

>cannot do with many devices)

Yes, I agree!

with care,

--Vinny

Vinny Pinto

vinny@...

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:

http://www.vinnypinto.us

August 28, 2006

Hi Marc:

I like MegaH- (aka MegaHydrin) a lot (and happens to be a

good friend of mine), but find that my body seems to want only one

capsule per day, perhaps because I get a lot of antioxidants from

other sources. Now as for EM, well, somehow, it seems to help to make

many people more robust; I find it to be a powerful nutritional supplement.

with care,

--Vinny

At 04:17 PM 8/28/2006, you wrote:

> > I might wish to play with

> > ingesting some EM antioxidative microbial products, perhaps a

> > food-grade EM culture such as SCD's Efficient Microbes(EM) (

> > www.scdworld.com

>

>Thanks! I'll look into that -- I've certainly had good (although

>temporary) results from some of the stronger antioxidants on

>the market -- Microhydrin, Mega-H, Amrit, etc. (no effect

>at all from ascorbic acid), but haven't tried any EM products.

>

>Marc

>

Vinny Pinto

vinny@...

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:

http://www.vinnypinto.us

August 28, 2006

Hi Vinny and All

I have tried both the Clarus QLink and the EarthCalm plug in units.

The Clarus was the first one I tried. When I put it on, yes, I had

a reaction to it. I felt terrible. The reaction was the same sort

of thing I would have from an allergy attack if I ate a food or took

a supplement I was allergic to. I had frequent trips the bathroom

to pass very large amounts of water and I also had an increase in my

blood pressure. In the case of the food or supplements I would call

it Detox as my body was trying to get rid of the offensive item.

With the QLink the only way to remove the energy frequency from my

body was for me to remove it, and I did. With the foods I reacted

to I would do a clearing to stop the allergic response of my body.

After the clearing the food item would not cause me a problem the

next time I would eat it. I tried this with the QLink and could

never get it to clear, even after a multiple number of tries over

about 5 months. I decided I did not need it and I returned it for a

refund.

I also tried the EarthCalm plug in units. There were four in

total. The same thing happened. When I tried the first module of

the four, I had the same type reaction as I did with the QLink. I

did a clearing for the reaction and the reaction stopped. I did it

with each unit with the net result of being able to plug them in.

Did I feel better or see any benefit from having them in use—NO

I did not. I returned them for a refund.

I also tried the " pocket size " Tunable " EarthSafe " from Less EMF. I

saw some benefit while using it –I felt a little better. It was

because I could adjust the output by doing Muscle Testing. I would

muscle test throughout the day to see if I still needed to use it

and when the answer was NO I would turn it off. I still have it but

have not used it for months because I have gotten my reaction

problems under control. You can read my posts starting at #6363.

Hope this helps,

Bill E

> > > I might wish to play with

> > > ingesting some EM antioxidative microbial products, perhaps a

> > > food-grade EM culture such as SCD's Efficient Microbes(EM) (

> > > www.scdworld.com

> >

> >Thanks! I'll look into that -- I've certainly had good (although

> >temporary) results from some of the stronger antioxidants on

> >the market -- Microhydrin, Mega-H, Amrit, etc. (no effect

> >at all from ascorbic acid), but haven't tried any EM products.

> >

> >Marc

> >

>

> Vinny Pinto

> vinny@...

>

> phone 301-694-1249

>

> To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go

to:

> http://www.vinnypinto.us

>

August 30, 2006

Hi, Vinny,

I am a non techno ESer here. lol I actually have not tried any of the many

devices for ESers. I intend to look into the rife machines, ozone generators,

and fir saunas in the near future (I am right now selling my home and haven't

the time to do the proper research I would need to do into these at the moment.

I am particularly interested in the sauna, tho I think I will be trying all

three at some point.) Instead, I have thus far targeted my treatment toward

supplements, negative hydrogen ion water, EFT, chiropractics, etc. I have done

very well with this approach and these do effectively detox and treat ES,

however, they are quite pricey (ongoing speaking) and I am in the future looking

for more cost effective ways to continue detoxing.

As for your questions, the only one I can answer is the third:

" Have you ever experienced brain fog, blurred vision, or heaviness, difficulty

breathing, coupled with extreme fatigue " ....

Yes, I have had those problems for many years, undxed, and finally a

nutritionist who I know dxed it for me. I had a very bad case of lymphatic

overload from detoxing and just plain crap in my system (too long a story to

deal with here; years of foods, fungi, bacteria, etc, etc, etc, spilling into my

blood stream due to celiac disease). The nutrients needed in order to keep my

lymphatic system running (such as it was--not running well), were being diverted

from my adrenal system. My adrenal system was being starved and was

dysfunctioning. This is what caused all but the brain fog and blurred vision

(those are lymphatic congestion symptoms; in your case, probably caused by

severe detoxing).

For me (and you should check this out for yourself), I ALSO had severely low

blood pressure along with all these other symptoms. The nutritionist told me I

needed to feed my adrenals and I followed his direction and advise. This has

changed my life! I was as close to bedbound as one could get and still be able

to hobble 10 feet to the bathroom for over 13 years from these problems. Even

once I began to treat celiac disease and was no longer bedbound, I could still

not walk across a room on most days after being up for more than 3 hours/day,

the fatigue was so bad. I finally realized that when my fatigue began to get

bad and the shortness of breath and heaviness began, that my bp was plummetting

to around 60s or 70s over 40s or 50s.

My nutrtionist put me on a combo of CoQ10, pantethine, and calcium AEP daily.

When I had the bp plummetting, I was to take pantethine and calcium AEP (one

each with large glass of water) every 15 to 20 mins until my bp began to respond

and rise. I can send exact amounts if this interests you.

I am just a little suspicious that serotonin is somehow involved in this

process, as well. Serotonin is involved in the autonomic nervous system and in

my case has been involved also with my lack of energy and I know it to be

important also in the adrenal functioning. I have serotonin dumping in my

urine. Serotonin is also involved in ES problems, which one can read in some of

the research (but sorry to say, I lost my links--someone here posted a huge long

list of links around November or December of last year that contained them.)

Also, using negative hydrogen ion water positively affects this serotonin

problem for me. I have read that acidic metabolism (also a problem with ongoing

gut toxin problems) can cause too much serotonin for the autonomic nervous

system and that causes similar symptoms. The negative hydrogen water addresses

that by making the metabolism more alkaline.

So, in essence, try the supplements. If you are still having problems, try

using alkaline water in addition to the supplements.

My best to you and your wife; and welcome to the forum, btw!

Diane

Vinny Pinto <vinny@...> wrote:

Hi folks:

I just joined this list group yesterday, but I have been browsing and

searching the the past posts in the archives for about the past five

days. I am writing today to say hello, and to note that I am rather

impressed at the quality of most of the posts on this list group. I

offer my congratulations to the list group owner -- I run many list

groups myself, some of them quite large, and it is amazing to me the

number of trolls and flamers (and spammers) who regularly try to send

bizarre or inappropriate messages to list groups; in fact, I am

converting more and more of my groups to private, application-only

membership for that reason. . .

First, a brief introduction: I am a research scientist with a

graduate degree (Masters level plus some doctoral work, degree earned

in 1992) in the health sciences and also appreciable training at the

graduate level in several systems of acupuncture and Asian medicine,

and I am also a spiritual healer and intuitive. In fact, much of my

scientific research work in the realms of beneficial microbes and

antioxidants is actually guided by intuition, rather than by the

intellectual logical " mind " . I also run a number of informational

websites and list groups on beneficial microbes (particularly EM),

raw food diets which include raw animal foods, sungazing and some

other fun topics. If you wish to know more about me (and I note that

a few members here already belong to some of my list groups) feel

free to check out my " home page " website at www.vinnypinto.us, which

kinda organizes the rest of my work and sites.

I am writing today to ask a bit about your experiences with EMF detox

symptoms, and I have already searched the current archives on the

group home page and read many of the past posts on this topic. Here

is what I am asking and why I am asking:

I have been doing occasional R & D in the field of EMF protective

devices since 1974, and have also occasionally used EMF protective

devices since that time, and, in fact, I was one of the first owners

of the Earth Resonance Generator (aka ERG, which used a tiny signal

generator (a UJT oscillator) running at near the fundemental f of the

Schumann resonance, at about 8 Hz) which Flanagan introduced

in the late 1970s. I have also owned three of the Clarus devices

since the very early 1990s, namely, the Clarus power strip, the

Clarus Clear Wave clock (one of the early models from 1991, using a

re-labeled Radio Shack digital clock), and the Clarus QLink pendant

(which I replaced with a newer model in 1999 when I lost the first

one...) I have never noticed any cleansing or detox effects with any

of these devices, nor with any of a half-dozen or more other brands

and types of protective devices (including the various Aulterra and

Etherium rock dusts) with which I have played since the early 1980s.

I have also NEVER noticed any significant detox effects with any of

the earlier generations of my own EMF protective devices which I

built and used in the years between 1975 and 2005.

However... When I designed and built the latest generation of what I

call my Coherent Space Quantum Coherence devices earlier this year, I

was rather amazed at the fact that in addition to some obvious

benefits which I noticed for myself such as having more energy and

focus each day (and this is something which I had never particularly

noticed with the three Clarus devices; the power strip and clock are

still running today in my home office area. . .), my wife Sue and I

shortly started to develop classic and temporary detox symptoms, such

as periodic fatigue, need for more naps, headaches, noticeable

increase in body odor, and even brief cold and flu symptoms. I have

had my share of detox and cleansing symptoms in the past, largely due

to early stages of acupuncture, complex homeopathy (Apex Energetics),

raw food diets or starting to ingest EM microbial/antioxidant

products (as I have discussed elsewhere on the web, I had some heavy

mercury exposures earlier in life, so detox symptoms were not

unexpected), but I was a bit stunned, as I had never considered

myself at all electrosensitive, and I had never experienced EMF detox

with ANY other devices.

For each of us (Sue and me), the detox symptoms -- which started on

about the third day of exposure -- passed within a couple of weeks,

leaving just the energy, calmness and clarity, and then we hit

another wave of even stronger -- but similar -- temporary detox

symptoms when I started running one of my negentropic (i.e.,

anti-entropic) field effect devices alongside the quantucm coherence

device. This latter wave also passed within two to three weeks from start.

Now, here is where it gets strange: I have since been guided on an

inner level to create one more type of device (much like the

negentropic field effect device, this is not primarily a quantum

coherence device, but rather a more specialized device which seems to

emit a beneficial bioenergy field), and amazingly (to me, as this was

totally unexpected), once I set up this device (it is called the

Violet Light of Peace) and it had been running nonstop for a few

days, Sue and I ended up enduring several weeks of very intense detox

symptoms, which started largely as brain fog and blurred vision, and

a feeling of not being able to take a deep breath, and then shifted

largely to fatigue and heaviness and increased sleep need, and the

symptoms are only now winding down after about three very intense

weeks. In fact, at three times during the past weeks, I grew so tired

of the intense detox symptoms that I briefly moved the device (which

has a radius of strongest effect of about 50 feet) for about 24 hours

at a time to a storage buildng on our property which is located about

90 feet from the house, just to get a break from detox! (I did this

despite constant reassurance on an inner level that the detox

symptoms were temporary and would pass, as I get a bit tired of

non-stop detox symptoms...!)

Since I have been marketing prototypes of some of my Quantum

Coherence devices to a small and select audience of experimenters and

researchers, I notice that I have been receiving reports from a

minority (perhaps 25% at most ) of the users of my quantum coherence

devices, reporting similar temporary bouts of detox symptoms.

However, even more telling, since I talk quite freely (in contrast to

most other sites) about EMF detox symptoms on my Coherent Space

website ( www.coherentspace.info ), I am starting to receive emails

and phone calls from users of other brands and types of EMF

protective devices who report that they seemed to notice detox

effects when first using their devices (i.e., those other brands) and

asking me if I believe that it is possible that those symptoms are

truly detox effects; many seem to have been particularly confused

because most vendors downplay or outright ignore such possible

temporary detox effects, and thus they were unable to receive any

answers or reassurance from their vendor. So far, the reports of

temporary detox seem to be coming from a few users of the Quantum

Products devices, the Clarus QLink pendants, and the SpringLife

Polarizers, although I have heard one or two reports of possible

detox effects from exposure to the Aulterra material (a mined rock

dust) also. And, interestingly, this morning I noticed that someone

(from Great Britain) who stumbled upon my Coherent Space web site had

gotten there by typing the term [Clarus QLink detox effect] in Google

search engine!

Anyway, after that painstaking history, here are a question or two

for you, if you will; I am not looking for formal survey-type

replies, but rather just hoping to start a bit of discussion and sharing:

1) What percentage of EMF protective devices which you have tried

have seemed to produce detox effects?

2) How long did the longest periods of detox effects seem to last?

3) Have you ever experienced detox effects such as blurred vision or

heaviness, or diffulty in drawing a deep breath, coupled with intense fatigue?

Thanks much in advance for sharing!

with care,

--Vinny

Vinny Pinto

vinny@...

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:

http://www.vinnypinto.us

---------------------------------

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

August 30, 2006

Hi Diane:

Thanks for your note. Briefly, just at address a major and consistent

underyling theme which seems to be implicit in your post below,

largely about the possibility of severe detox coupled with lymphtic

overload and adrenal exhaustion, which you seem to posit in a number

of cases and have presumed was happening for me and for the several

other people who had noticed temporary and transient odd detox

symptoms such as blurry vision or " heaviness " :

For me, and for the other users of the devices who experienced those

symptoms, those symptoms were very much temporary (as stated in my

original post) and transient, and only presented during the first few

days or weeks of using the device. They all passed after a brief

period of time, and in their lieu was simply a higher level of

energy, functioning and clarity.

What you have recounted in much of your letter -- i.e., in terms of

your own experience -- is not at all what I would call temporary

detox, but rather what I would term as ongoing overload and toxicity,

coupled with deficiency and/or imbalance. To me, this is very much

different from temporary detox symptoms which pass after a brief time

and then yield a greater sense of well-being, which is my own

experience and that of most folks whom I know, regardless of whether

the temporary and brief detox was triggered by acupuncture treatment,

use of EMF protection devices, complex homeopathic treatment, or a

UFO encounter of the second or third kind.

with care,

--Vinny

At 02:59 AM 8/30/2006, you wrote:

>Hi, Vinny,

>

> I am a non techno ESer here. lol I actually have not tried any

> of the many devices for ESers. I intend to look into the rife

> machines, ozone generators, and fir saunas in the near future (I am

> right now selling my home and haven't the time to do the proper

> research I would need to do into these at the moment. I am

> particularly interested in the sauna, tho I think I will be trying

> all three at some point.) Instead, I have thus far targeted my

> treatment toward supplements, negative hydrogen ion water, EFT,

> chiropractics, etc. I have done very well with this approach and

> these do effectively detox and treat ES, however, they are quite

> pricey (ongoing speaking) and I am in the future looking for more

> cost effective ways to continue detoxing.

>

> As for your questions, the only one I can answer is the third:

> " Have you ever experienced brain fog, blurred vision, or

> heaviness, difficulty breathing, coupled with extreme fatigue " ....

>

> Yes, I have had those problems for many years, undxed, and

> finally a nutritionist who I know dxed it for me. I had a very bad

> case of lymphatic overload from detoxing and just plain crap in my

> system (too long a story to deal with here; years of foods, fungi,

> bacteria, etc, etc, etc, spilling into my blood stream due to

> celiac disease). The nutrients needed in order to keep my

> lymphatic system running (such as it was--not running well), were

> being diverted from my adrenal system. My adrenal system was being

> starved and was dysfunctioning. This is what caused all but the

> brain fog and blurred vision (those are lymphatic congestion

> symptoms; in your case, probably caused by severe detoxing).

>

> For me (and you should check this out for yourself), I ALSO had

> severely low blood pressure along with all these other

> symptoms. The nutritionist told me I needed to feed my adrenals

> and I followed his direction and advise. This has changed my

> life! I was as close to bedbound as one could get and still be

> able to hobble 10 feet to the bathroom for over 13 years from these

> problems. Even once I began to treat celiac disease and was no

> longer bedbound, I could still not walk across a room on most days

> after being up for more than 3 hours/day, the fatigue was so

> bad. I finally realized that when my fatigue began to get bad and

> the shortness of breath and heaviness began, that my bp was

> plummetting to around 60s or 70s over 40s or 50s.

>

> My nutrtionist put me on a combo of CoQ10, pantethine, and

> calcium AEP daily. When I had the bp plummetting, I was to take

> pantethine and calcium AEP (one each with large glass of water)

> every 15 to 20 mins until my bp began to respond and rise. I can

> send exact amounts if this interests you.

>

> I am just a little suspicious that serotonin is somehow involved

> in this process, as well. Serotonin is involved in the autonomic

> nervous system and in my case has been involved also with my lack

> of energy and I know it to be important also in the adrenal

> functioning. I have serotonin dumping in my urine. Serotonin is

> also involved in ES problems, which one can read in some of the

> research (but sorry to say, I lost my links--someone here posted a

> huge long list of links around November or December of last year

> that contained them.) Also, using negative hydrogen ion water

> positively affects this serotonin problem for me. I have read that

> acidic metabolism (also a problem with ongoing gut toxin problems)

> can cause too much serotonin for the autonomic nervous system and

> that causes similar symptoms. The negative hydrogen water

> addresses that by making the metabolism more alkaline.

>

> So, in essence, try the supplements. If you are still having

> problems, try using alkaline water in addition to the supplements.

>

> My best to you and your wife; and welcome to the forum, btw!

> Diane

>

>Vinny Pinto <vinny@...> wrote:

> Hi folks:

>

>I just joined this list group yesterday, but I have been browsing and

>searching the the past posts in the archives for about the past five

>days. I am writing today to say hello, and to note that I am rather

>impressed at the quality of most of the posts on this list group. I

>offer my congratulations to the list group owner -- I run many list

>groups myself, some of them quite large, and it is amazing to me the

>number of trolls and flamers (and spammers) who regularly try to send

>bizarre or inappropriate messages to list groups; in fact, I am

>converting more and more of my groups to private, application-only

>membership for that reason. . .

>

>First, a brief introduction: I am a research scientist with a

>graduate degree (Masters level plus some doctoral work, degree earned

>in 1992) in the health sciences and also appreciable training at the

>graduate level in several systems of acupuncture and Asian medicine,

>and I am also a spiritual healer and intuitive. In fact, much of my

>scientific research work in the realms of beneficial microbes and

>antioxidants is actually guided by intuition, rather than by the

>intellectual logical " mind " . I also run a number of informational

>websites and list groups on beneficial microbes (particularly EM),

>raw food diets which include raw animal foods, sungazing and some

>other fun topics. If you wish to know more about me (and I note that

>a few members here already belong to some of my list groups) feel

>free to check out my " home page " website at www.vinnypinto.us, which

>kinda organizes the rest of my work and sites.

>

>I am writing today to ask a bit about your experiences with EMF detox

>symptoms, and I have already searched the current archives on the

>group home page and read many of the past posts on this topic. Here

>is what I am asking and why I am asking:

>

>I have been doing occasional R & D in the field of EMF protective

>devices since 1974, and have also occasionally used EMF protective

>devices since that time, and, in fact, I was one of the first owners

>of the Earth Resonance Generator (aka ERG, which used a tiny signal

>generator (a UJT oscillator) running at near the fundemental f of the

>Schumann resonance, at about 8 Hz) which Flanagan introduced

>in the late 1970s. I have also owned three of the Clarus devices

>since the very early 1990s, namely, the Clarus power strip, the

>Clarus Clear Wave clock (one of the early models from 1991, using a

>re-labeled Radio Shack digital clock), and the Clarus QLink pendant

>(which I replaced with a newer model in 1999 when I lost the first

>one...) I have never noticed any cleansing or detox effects with any

>of these devices, nor with any of a half-dozen or more other brands

>and types of protective devices (including the various Aulterra and

>Etherium rock dusts) with which I have played since the early 1980s.

>I have also NEVER noticed any significant detox effects with any of

>the earlier generations of my own EMF protective devices which I

>built and used in the years between 1975 and 2005.

>

>However... When I designed and built the latest generation of what I

>call my Coherent Space Quantum Coherence devices earlier this year, I

>was rather amazed at the fact that in addition to some obvious

>benefits which I noticed for myself such as having more energy and

>focus each day (and this is something which I had never particularly

>noticed with the three Clarus devices; the power strip and clock are

>still running today in my home office area. . .), my wife Sue and I

>shortly started to develop classic and temporary detox symptoms, such

>as periodic fatigue, need for more naps, headaches, noticeable

>increase in body odor, and even brief cold and flu symptoms. I have

>had my share of detox and cleansing symptoms in the past, largely due

>to early stages of acupuncture, complex homeopathy (Apex Energetics),

>raw food diets or starting to ingest EM microbial/antioxidant

>products (as I have discussed elsewhere on the web, I had some heavy

>mercury exposures earlier in life, so detox symptoms were not

>unexpected), but I was a bit stunned, as I had never considered

>myself at all electrosensitive, and I had never experienced EMF detox

>with ANY other devices.

>

>For each of us (Sue and me), the detox symptoms -- which started on

>about the third day of exposure -- passed within a couple of weeks,

>leaving just the energy, calmness and clarity, and then we hit

>another wave of even stronger -- but similar -- temporary detox

>symptoms when I started running one of my negentropic (i.e.,

>anti-entropic) field effect devices alongside the quantucm coherence

>device. This latter wave also passed within two to three weeks from start.

>

>Now, here is where it gets strange: I have since been guided on an

>inner level to create one more type of device (much like the

>negentropic field effect device, this is not primarily a quantum

>coherence device, but rather a more specialized device which seems to

>emit a beneficial bioenergy field), and amazingly (to me, as this was

>totally unexpected), once I set up this device (it is called the

>Violet Light of Peace) and it had been running nonstop for a few

>days, Sue and I ended up enduring several weeks of very intense detox

>symptoms, which started largely as brain fog and blurred vision, and

>a feeling of not being able to take a deep breath, and then shifted

>largely to fatigue and heaviness and increased sleep need, and the

>symptoms are only now winding down after about three very intense

>weeks. In fact, at three times during the past weeks, I grew so tired

>of the intense detox symptoms that I briefly moved the device (which

>has a radius of strongest effect of about 50 feet) for about 24 hours

>at a time to a storage buildng on our property which is located about

>90 feet from the house, just to get a break from detox! (I did this

>despite constant reassurance on an inner level that the detox

>symptoms were temporary and would pass, as I get a bit tired of

>non-stop detox symptoms...!)

>

>Since I have been marketing prototypes of some of my Quantum

>Coherence devices to a small and select audience of experimenters and

>researchers, I notice that I have been receiving reports from a

>minority (perhaps 25% at most ) of the users of my quantum coherence

>devices, reporting similar temporary bouts of detox symptoms.

>However, even more telling, since I talk quite freely (in contrast to

>most other sites) about EMF detox symptoms on my Coherent Space

>website ( www.coherentspace.info ), I am starting to receive emails

>and phone calls from users of other brands and types of EMF

>protective devices who report that they seemed to notice detox

>effects when first using their devices (i.e., those other brands) and

>asking me if I believe that it is possible that those symptoms are

>truly detox effects; many seem to have been particularly confused

>because most vendors downplay or outright ignore such possible

>temporary detox effects, and thus they were unable to receive any

>answers or reassurance from their vendor. So far, the reports of

>temporary detox seem to be coming from a few users of the Quantum

>Products devices, the Clarus QLink pendants, and the SpringLife

>Polarizers, although I have heard one or two reports of possible

>detox effects from exposure to the Aulterra material (a mined rock

>dust) also. And, interestingly, this morning I noticed that someone

>(from Great Britain) who stumbled upon my Coherent Space web site had

>gotten there by typing the term [Clarus QLink detox effect] in Google

>search engine!

>

>Anyway, after that painstaking history, here are a question or two

>for you, if you will; I am not looking for formal survey-type

>replies, but rather just hoping to start a bit of discussion and sharing:

>

>1) What percentage of EMF protective devices which you have tried

>have seemed to produce detox effects?

>2) How long did the longest periods of detox effects seem to last?

>3) Have you ever experienced detox effects such as blurred vision or

>heaviness, or diffulty in drawing a deep breath, coupled with intense fatigue?

>

>Thanks much in advance for sharing!

>

>with care,

>--Vinny

Vinny Pinto

vinny@...

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:

http://www.vinnypinto.us

August 30, 2006

Hi, Vinny,

What I said in my last email is true for those of us who were/are toxin

overloaded for many years, AS WELL AS those who have transient lymphatic

congestion due to QUICKLY over detoxing ON A TRANSIENT LEVEL. That is my point

(sorry I am not trying to yell at you, just highlighting what I was trying to

point out in my post. When I post about what I have experienced, I am not

trying to make a direct comparison that the other person is experiencing the

exact same scenario I had (tho, lets face it, with celiac disease being present

in 1 in 133 people in the U.S., and only 1/3 of those being dxed, there is

certainly that possibility, especially with people who are dealing with constant

or frequent detoxing. Tho that was NOT a comparison I was trying to make in

your situation.)

I was merely pointing out that one who detoxes heavily, even for a short time,

might possibly encounter a situation in which their lymphatic system is

over-taxed for a transient time, causing adrenal exhaustion (also transient) due

to either a serotonin problem OR lack of nutrients to run the adrenals. I was

merely answering your request for info on the symptoms you asked about. If you

do not have the blood pressure problem, it does not necessarily compute that you

do not need further adrenal nutrition, btw. The bp problem is PERHAPS (tho I

personally do not know) a symptom which might follow only long term nutritional

shortage. My nutritionist was surprised I also had this, which leads me to

think this might be the case.

I do not " presume " anything in anyone's case, Vinny. This may or may not be

your problem, I was only sharing what I knew to be true of those symptoms and my

experience (which is what I assume all here do! At least, I hope when I post a

request for info, that is the info I get. I value all input, no matter where

that takes me. I also know that not all info is going to pertain to me, but

that I will have to do the homework to see if it does.)

I wish you well.