Drug, Effexor, Anxiety returning after 3 yrs. of Effexor XR, Now Lexapro, Xanax-symptoms worse than ever

[Guest guest]

RE: " I

explained that a lot of my

anxiety had returned to what it was prior to the start of Effexor. "

Dear S.,

I am a Doctor of Chiropractic. However I am not writing in any professional

capacity at all. I was not fortunate enough to find this group before my

Mother committed suicide after 6 years of antidepressants that did not

improve her quality of life and may have contributed to her cancer, heart

disease & diabetes. Therefore, my comments are just from the general public

like yourself.

1. Ask yourself about your doctor: Why are you still going to a doctor that

you don't feel like you can get any answers to your questions and have to

turn to the internet asking questions from people that are not licensed to

prescribe. I'm not critisizing you because I lost faith in my Mother's

doctors but I never could find anyone to help me with the side effects &

withdrawal symptoms that I observed in her and the many, many different

doctors I went to for help.

2. You've been on a drug for 3 years. Now it's not working. Do your doctors

have any plan for you to never be off psychiatric drugs or are you expected

to be on them for the rest of your life?

3. How much had been paid for the Effexor for 3 years by your insurance

company and yourself and after 3 years you have not been " cured " of the

problem that you went to the doctor in the first place, the original drug

isn't working and now you are worse than before you first went to get teh

Effexor in the first place, right?

4. Have you ever read the Physician's Desk Reference page that comes in the

box with the bottle pills-not just the computer printout that the pharmacist

gives you? Have you read to see if the new drugs, Lexapor & Xanax have the

side effects tha you are experiencing?

5. There are no objective tests before or after treatment to ascertain the

efffectiveness of the drugs, correct?

You don't know if you are going through withdrawal symptoms from the Effexor

or side effects from the Lexapro & /or Xanax, correct? Your doctor has no way

of knowing the answer to this question since there are no objective tests to

ascertain the necessity of the drugs or if the drugs have been effective,

correct? All the treatment is based on the paridym of giving the drug to the

patient, watching to see what the experimental results are and if the

effects are not what the patient wants trying another experimental

combination of the drug(s), correct?

6. Whatever your age, does your doctor ever forsee a time when you will feel

like you think you should feel without coming into their or another

psychiatrists office to recieve another combination or single drug

experimenting to see if it will make you feel the way you want to feel?

7. Does your doctor provide any other form treatment for anxiety or any of

the other new worsening symptoms that you are now experiencing after 3 years

of treatment now that you still have the same symptoms and more, different

and worse symptoms after 3 year of treatment costing $_______ in visits to

the doctor, $_______ in drugs and $________ in lost time from your life

going to the doctor and the drug store to pick up the meds and ________

minutes out of your life remembering to take and keep up with the drugs?

8. If you had diabetes, heart disease or cancer and you went to a particular

type of doctor for 3 years and after 3 years your original chief complaint

was worse than when you started, you had new and worse symptoms and you has

so little confidence in those doctors that you no longer felt you could ask

ask questions of the doctor about the effects of the drugs or what you

should do to get better on them, would you continue to seek that form of

treatment when you knew that diabetes, heart disease and cancer would all

shorten your lifespan and reduce your quality of life until you died earlier

than if you were finding treatment that actually cured the problem rather

than addressed the symptoms?

9. Take the total cost of the doctor's visits and prescription drugs for 3

years, divide by 3, multiply that number by the number of years you have as

your goal to live, what is that total? Is that cost for a health care

treatment worth it for a treatment that makes you feel worse after 3 years

than before you commenced treatment? Could you take a trip to the Bahamas or

purchase a small real estate investment with that amount of money?

10. What other forms of lifestyle changes (diet, supplements, exercise,

meditation, prayer, reading positive mental attitude books, associating with

people that don't cause you anxiety, whatever) can you make to address your

anxiety?

11. Could you find some of this information at www.alternativemedicine.com

or www.garynull.com?

12. If the Effexor that was working for 3 years is now no longer working,

does this mean that the SSRI's are designed to require more and more for the

same original patient satisfying results at initial treatment with the

manufacturers knowing that the patient will not be " cured " of their problem,

that the drug's effectiveness will lessen with the passage of time and that

more of that drug or an endless experimental combination of SSRI's will be

required after that passage of time to achieve the original satisfactory

results?

13. When you review the PDR for the studies that were done before the drug

was approved by the FDA for distribution to the public, was Effexor tested

for 3 years? 3 Months? Were any of the other drugs you have been prescribed

tested for more than a year before being approved for distribution to the

general public? Were any of the drugs tested in the combinations that you

are now being prescribed?

14. Have you considered calling the manufacturers to ask questions about the

drugs you are taking and documenting the time, date and the person you are

speaking to informing them that you are recording the conversation so that

your family will have it if you commit suicide on the drug?

15. Are any of the drugs you are being prescribed included in the list that

the FDA now requires a warning label for suicide on the " black box " ?

16. Would you feel like you are taking something healthy if it arrives in a

black box warning you that it might make you kill yourself?

17. Do you have a Last Will and Testament or have you updated your Last

Will and Testament, do you have a list of your assets and debts on file with

it so that your loved ones know where it is?

18. Did you know that no one on this list is licensed to give you any

medical advice but will share their personal experiences with these SSRI's

so that you can make your own informed health care decisions about how you

will control your own brain chemistry to improve the quality of your life?

These concerned Americans take time out of their lives to help their fellow

humans because of the pain and suffering SSRI's have caused in their lives

and the lives of their loved ones when they could not find help from the

doctors prescribing the medications or may be able to help you find the rare

psychiatrist that was still allowed to practice if they dared question the

paridym of keeping patients on psychotrophic medications and started trying

to find effective forms of treatment besides prescribing drugs that do not

have as their goal ever freeing the patient from their costs and may cause a

lack of effectiveness after a period of time and more symptoms than the

patient started out with after the initial hooking period to the addictive

drug?

19. " My Doc gave me some Xanax which I've been afraid to use but might

take .5 tonight to

help me cope. " How is taking something that you are afraid of going to

help you cope with anxiety?

20. Why are you " afraid " to take Xanax a drug prescribed by a licensed

health care practioner and approved by the FDA after _____ weeks of trial

studies? Is your subconscious trying to tell you something?

21. Before the development of SSRI's by the medical/pharmaceutical

industrial complex, how did people cope with anxiety without drugs that

didn't work after 3 years and $_______ and made them feel worse than when

the started and made them afraid to take the 3rd drug prescribed after the

2nd drug prescribed didn't work after the 1st drug prescribed didn't work?

22. " I have

anxiety like never before. " If you asked your doctor if he would continue

taking a drug and going to a doctor where the treatment resulted in more and

worse symptoms than after 3 years and $______ in treatment, would that be

" rational " ?

23. Have you developed any new health problems that are listed in the PRD as

side effects of Effexor in the last 3 years?

24. " It's hard to function. I don't even want to

leave the house. I

missed work on Friday. Did nothing but sleep and lay around on

Saturday and Sunday. " Would you recommend a friend to take 3 years of

Effexor?

25. Can your doctor refer you to a patient that has had positive results and

has " cured " their anxiety after 3 years of

Effexor, Xanax, or Lexapro?

26. What other drugs does your doctor anticipate prescribing to you if the

Effexor, Xanax, or Lexapro doesn't work?

27. Will your doctor admit that you are worse and haven't been helped in

the long run with whatever environmental or

biochemical etilogy that was causing your anxiety 3 years ago and that some

of your symptoms might be side effects or withdrawal symptoms or will you be

advised that you are the cause of your problems because it's the " progress

of your disease " that they have not corrected or try to brainwash you into

believing that you are not really having any side effects or withdrawal

symptoms and that perhaps you are delusional and need to be hospitalzed or

institutinalized at the cost of $______ per day?

28. How many of this doctors patients require assisted living, nursing

homes, psychiatric hospitalization and/or institutionalization after _____

years of treatment?

29. Do you have a power of attorney and medical power of attorney?

Can a Probate Judge appoint anyone to be the conservator of your assets if

you do not have a power of attorney? If you do not have medical power of

attorney and your conditions worsens, can the psychiatrist decide that it's

not good for your " mental health " to read your medical records, bar your

family from visiting you in the hospital and deny you the right to

communicate with the outside world denying phone privileges while you are

medicated enought to lay in the bed most of the day except for going to

group therapy so that maximum profit can be obtained by the counselor and

the hospital for insurance billing purposes with one counselor for many

patients?

30.Is there anyone in your family that would like to be able to access your

assets before the reading of the Last Will and Testament that could be

convinced by an attorney that is paid to prepare commitment papers that

would rather see you in an institution and have control over your assets

through the appointment of a guardian ad litem or conservator?

31. How many involuntary psychiatric commitments has the Probate Judge in

your county signed in the last year?

32. How many of these Americans that were committed involuntarily to a

psychiatric commitment were on psychiatric medications for years that

obviously did not result in the patient being " cured " of their original

problem?

33. How much income is generated for the psychiatric institutions by your

State Government by Americans committed to psychiatric institutions where

their assets are depleted while institutionalized so that upon their release

they are no longer able to profitably work ( " It's hard to function. I

don't even want to

leave the house. I

missed work on Friday. Did nothing but sleep and lay around on

Saturday and Sunday.

And now, Monday, I still can't function. " ) and the Mental Health Center in

your county that is funded by state and federal funds is appointed the payor

of the monthly pittance social security disablity check and the " mentally

ill " person has to fill out ao form to get permission from the mental health

center if their expenditure is approved and the Mental Health Center retains

control over the money that they will " help " you not spend because years of

psychiatric medications have now rendered their patient incapable of

rational financial management?

34. Did you know that 25% of all Americans on disablity are on disabilty for

" mental illness " and, to my knowledge, all are being prescribed psychiatric

medications and expected to be prescribed psychiatric medications until the

end of their lives?

35 Did you know that Depakote requires the testing of the blood every 3

months anticipating the liver failure that it can cause but it can still

kill the patient in 3 days without notice?

I don't know the answers to these questions for you, do you?

Thank you,

Dr. Lance, D.C.

- Original Message -----

From: " gr8seabass " <scottboyarsky@...>

<SSRI medications >

Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 9:18 PM

Subject: New member with a question

Hello All,

It is comforting to know that there are others going through what I

am experiencing. I

was on 150mg of EffexorXR for the past 3 years. About 4 weeks ago my

new doc

suggested I make the change from EffexorXR to Lexapro after I

explained that a lot of my

anxiety had returned to what it was prior to the start of Effexor.

No one explained to me

what reducing the Effexor would be like. The first week I went from

150mg of Effexor to

112mg and added 5mg of Lexapro. It was an easy week and adjusting

was fine. Fast

forward to this week. I'm now on my second week at 75mg of Effexor

and 10mg of

Lexapro. I feel horrible! I have chills, I can't focus, I have

anxiety like never before. I

don't know what to do. It's hard to function. I don't even want to

leave the house. I

missed work on Friday. Did nothing but sleep and lay around on

Saturday and Sunday.

And now, Monday, I still can't function.

My Doc gave me some Xanax which I've been afraid to use but might

take .5 tonight to

help me cope. Does anyone have any idea how long this will last?

Will the lexapro take

over and help reduce the Effexor withdrawal? Any ideas for getting

thru this?

Thanks,

-S

[Guest guest]

RE: " I

explained that a lot of my

anxiety had returned to what it was prior to the start of Effexor. "

Dear S.,

I am a Doctor of Chiropractic. However I am not writing in any professional

capacity at all. I was not fortunate enough to find this group before my

Mother committed suicide after 6 years of antidepressants that did not

improve her quality of life and may have contributed to her cancer, heart

disease & diabetes. Therefore, my comments are just from the general public

like yourself.

1. Ask yourself about your doctor: Why are you still going to a doctor that

you don't feel like you can get any answers to your questions and have to

turn to the internet asking questions from people that are not licensed to

prescribe. I'm not critisizing you because I lost faith in my Mother's

doctors but I never could find anyone to help me with the side effects &

withdrawal symptoms that I observed in her and the many, many different

doctors I went to for help.

2. You've been on a drug for 3 years. Now it's not working. Do your doctors

have any plan for you to never be off psychiatric drugs or are you expected

to be on them for the rest of your life?

3. How much had been paid for the Effexor for 3 years by your insurance

company and yourself and after 3 years you have not been " cured " of the

problem that you went to the doctor in the first place, the original drug

isn't working and now you are worse than before you first went to get teh

Effexor in the first place, right?

4. Have you ever read the Physician's Desk Reference page that comes in the

box with the bottle pills-not just the computer printout that the pharmacist

gives you? Have you read to see if the new drugs, Lexapor & Xanax have the

side effects tha you are experiencing?

5. There are no objective tests before or after treatment to ascertain the

efffectiveness of the drugs, correct?

You don't know if you are going through withdrawal symptoms from the Effexor

or side effects from the Lexapro & /or Xanax, correct? Your doctor has no way

of knowing the answer to this question since there are no objective tests to

ascertain the necessity of the drugs or if the drugs have been effective,

correct? All the treatment is based on the paridym of giving the drug to the

patient, watching to see what the experimental results are and if the

effects are not what the patient wants trying another experimental

combination of the drug(s), correct?

6. Whatever your age, does your doctor ever forsee a time when you will feel

like you think you should feel without coming into their or another

psychiatrists office to recieve another combination or single drug

experimenting to see if it will make you feel the way you want to feel?

7. Does your doctor provide any other form treatment for anxiety or any of

the other new worsening symptoms that you are now experiencing after 3 years

of treatment now that you still have the same symptoms and more, different

and worse symptoms after 3 year of treatment costing $_______ in visits to

the doctor, $_______ in drugs and $________ in lost time from your life

going to the doctor and the drug store to pick up the meds and ________

minutes out of your life remembering to take and keep up with the drugs?

8. If you had diabetes, heart disease or cancer and you went to a particular

type of doctor for 3 years and after 3 years your original chief complaint

was worse than when you started, you had new and worse symptoms and you has

so little confidence in those doctors that you no longer felt you could ask

ask questions of the doctor about the effects of the drugs or what you

should do to get better on them, would you continue to seek that form of

treatment when you knew that diabetes, heart disease and cancer would all

shorten your lifespan and reduce your quality of life until you died earlier

than if you were finding treatment that actually cured the problem rather

than addressed the symptoms?

9. Take the total cost of the doctor's visits and prescription drugs for 3

years, divide by 3, multiply that number by the number of years you have as

your goal to live, what is that total? Is that cost for a health care

treatment worth it for a treatment that makes you feel worse after 3 years

than before you commenced treatment? Could you take a trip to the Bahamas or

purchase a small real estate investment with that amount of money?

10. What other forms of lifestyle changes (diet, supplements, exercise,

meditation, prayer, reading positive mental attitude books, associating with

people that don't cause you anxiety, whatever) can you make to address your

anxiety?

11. Could you find some of this information at www.alternativemedicine.com

or www.garynull.com?

12. If the Effexor that was working for 3 years is now no longer working,

does this mean that the SSRI's are designed to require more and more for the

same original patient satisfying results at initial treatment with the

manufacturers knowing that the patient will not be " cured " of their problem,

that the drug's effectiveness will lessen with the passage of time and that

more of that drug or an endless experimental combination of SSRI's will be

required after that passage of time to achieve the original satisfactory

results?

13. When you review the PDR for the studies that were done before the drug

was approved by the FDA for distribution to the public, was Effexor tested

for 3 years? 3 Months? Were any of the other drugs you have been prescribed

tested for more than a year before being approved for distribution to the

general public? Were any of the drugs tested in the combinations that you

are now being prescribed?

14. Have you considered calling the manufacturers to ask questions about the

drugs you are taking and documenting the time, date and the person you are

speaking to informing them that you are recording the conversation so that

your family will have it if you commit suicide on the drug?

15. Are any of the drugs you are being prescribed included in the list that

the FDA now requires a warning label for suicide on the " black box " ?

16. Would you feel like you are taking something healthy if it arrives in a

black box warning you that it might make you kill yourself?

17. Do you have a Last Will and Testament or have you updated your Last

Will and Testament, do you have a list of your assets and debts on file with

it so that your loved ones know where it is?

18. Did you know that no one on this list is licensed to give you any

medical advice but will share their personal experiences with these SSRI's

so that you can make your own informed health care decisions about how you

will control your own brain chemistry to improve the quality of your life?

These concerned Americans take time out of their lives to help their fellow

humans because of the pain and suffering SSRI's have caused in their lives

and the lives of their loved ones when they could not find help from the

doctors prescribing the medications or may be able to help you find the rare

psychiatrist that was still allowed to practice if they dared question the

paridym of keeping patients on psychotrophic medications and started trying

to find effective forms of treatment besides prescribing drugs that do not

have as their goal ever freeing the patient from their costs and may cause a

lack of effectiveness after a period of time and more symptoms than the

patient started out with after the initial hooking period to the addictive

drug?

19. " My Doc gave me some Xanax which I've been afraid to use but might

take .5 tonight to

help me cope. " How is taking something that you are afraid of going to

help you cope with anxiety?

20. Why are you " afraid " to take Xanax a drug prescribed by a licensed

health care practioner and approved by the FDA after _____ weeks of trial

studies? Is your subconscious trying to tell you something?

21. Before the development of SSRI's by the medical/pharmaceutical

industrial complex, how did people cope with anxiety without drugs that

didn't work after 3 years and $_______ and made them feel worse than when

the started and made them afraid to take the 3rd drug prescribed after the

2nd drug prescribed didn't work after the 1st drug prescribed didn't work?

22. " I have

anxiety like never before. " If you asked your doctor if he would continue

taking a drug and going to a doctor where the treatment resulted in more and

worse symptoms than after 3 years and $______ in treatment, would that be

" rational " ?

23. Have you developed any new health problems that are listed in the PRD as

side effects of Effexor in the last 3 years?

24. " It's hard to function. I don't even want to

leave the house. I

missed work on Friday. Did nothing but sleep and lay around on

Saturday and Sunday. " Would you recommend a friend to take 3 years of

Effexor?

25. Can your doctor refer you to a patient that has had positive results and

has " cured " their anxiety after 3 years of

Effexor, Xanax, or Lexapro?

26. What other drugs does your doctor anticipate prescribing to you if the

Effexor, Xanax, or Lexapro doesn't work?

27. Will your doctor admit that you are worse and haven't been helped in

the long run with whatever environmental or

biochemical etilogy that was causing your anxiety 3 years ago and that some

of your symptoms might be side effects or withdrawal symptoms or will you be

advised that you are the cause of your problems because it's the " progress

of your disease " that they have not corrected or try to brainwash you into

believing that you are not really having any side effects or withdrawal

symptoms and that perhaps you are delusional and need to be hospitalzed or

institutinalized at the cost of $______ per day?

28. How many of this doctors patients require assisted living, nursing

homes, psychiatric hospitalization and/or institutionalization after _____

years of treatment?

29. Do you have a power of attorney and medical power of attorney?

Can a Probate Judge appoint anyone to be the conservator of your assets if

you do not have a power of attorney? If you do not have medical power of

attorney and your conditions worsens, can the psychiatrist decide that it's

not good for your " mental health " to read your medical records, bar your

family from visiting you in the hospital and deny you the right to

communicate with the outside world denying phone privileges while you are

medicated enought to lay in the bed most of the day except for going to

group therapy so that maximum profit can be obtained by the counselor and

the hospital for insurance billing purposes with one counselor for many

patients?

30.Is there anyone in your family that would like to be able to access your

assets before the reading of the Last Will and Testament that could be

convinced by an attorney that is paid to prepare commitment papers that

would rather see you in an institution and have control over your assets

through the appointment of a guardian ad litem or conservator?

31. How many involuntary psychiatric commitments has the Probate Judge in

your county signed in the last year?

32. How many of these Americans that were committed involuntarily to a

psychiatric commitment were on psychiatric medications for years that

obviously did not result in the patient being " cured " of their original

problem?

33. How much income is generated for the psychiatric institutions by your

State Government by Americans committed to psychiatric institutions where

their assets are depleted while institutionalized so that upon their release

they are no longer able to profitably work ( " It's hard to function. I

don't even want to

leave the house. I

missed work on Friday. Did nothing but sleep and lay around on

Saturday and Sunday.

And now, Monday, I still can't function. " ) and the Mental Health Center in

your county that is funded by state and federal funds is appointed the payor

of the monthly pittance social security disablity check and the " mentally

ill " person has to fill out ao form to get permission from the mental health

center if their expenditure is approved and the Mental Health Center retains

control over the money that they will " help " you not spend because years of

psychiatric medications have now rendered their patient incapable of

rational financial management?

34. Did you know that 25% of all Americans on disablity are on disabilty for

" mental illness " and, to my knowledge, all are being prescribed psychiatric

medications and expected to be prescribed psychiatric medications until the

end of their lives?

35 Did you know that Depakote requires the testing of the blood every 3

months anticipating the liver failure that it can cause but it can still

kill the patient in 3 days without notice?

I don't know the answers to these questions for you, do you?

Thank you,

Dr. Lance, D.C.

- Original Message -----

From: " gr8seabass " <scottboyarsky@...>

<SSRI medications >

Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 9:18 PM

Subject: New member with a question

Hello All,

It is comforting to know that there are others going through what I

am experiencing. I

was on 150mg of EffexorXR for the past 3 years. About 4 weeks ago my

new doc

suggested I make the change from EffexorXR to Lexapro after I

explained that a lot of my

anxiety had returned to what it was prior to the start of Effexor.

No one explained to me

what reducing the Effexor would be like. The first week I went from

150mg of Effexor to

112mg and added 5mg of Lexapro. It was an easy week and adjusting

was fine. Fast

forward to this week. I'm now on my second week at 75mg of Effexor

and 10mg of

Lexapro. I feel horrible! I have chills, I can't focus, I have

anxiety like never before. I

don't know what to do. It's hard to function. I don't even want to

leave the house. I

missed work on Friday. Did nothing but sleep and lay around on

Saturday and Sunday.

And now, Monday, I still can't function.

My Doc gave me some Xanax which I've been afraid to use but might

take .5 tonight to

help me cope. Does anyone have any idea how long this will last?

Will the lexapro take

over and help reduce the Effexor withdrawal? Any ideas for getting

thru this?

Thanks,

-S

[Guest guest]

RE: " I

explained that a lot of my

anxiety had returned to what it was prior to the start of Effexor. "

Dear S.,

I am a Doctor of Chiropractic. However I am not writing in any professional

capacity at all. I was not fortunate enough to find this group before my

Mother committed suicide after 6 years of antidepressants that did not

improve her quality of life and may have contributed to her cancer, heart

disease & diabetes. Therefore, my comments are just from the general public

like yourself.

1. Ask yourself about your doctor: Why are you still going to a doctor that

you don't feel like you can get any answers to your questions and have to

turn to the internet asking questions from people that are not licensed to

prescribe. I'm not critisizing you because I lost faith in my Mother's

doctors but I never could find anyone to help me with the side effects &

withdrawal symptoms that I observed in her and the many, many different

doctors I went to for help.

2. You've been on a drug for 3 years. Now it's not working. Do your doctors

have any plan for you to never be off psychiatric drugs or are you expected

to be on them for the rest of your life?

3. How much had been paid for the Effexor for 3 years by your insurance

company and yourself and after 3 years you have not been " cured " of the

problem that you went to the doctor in the first place, the original drug

isn't working and now you are worse than before you first went to get teh

Effexor in the first place, right?

4. Have you ever read the Physician's Desk Reference page that comes in the

box with the bottle pills-not just the computer printout that the pharmacist

gives you? Have you read to see if the new drugs, Lexapor & Xanax have the

side effects tha you are experiencing?

5. There are no objective tests before or after treatment to ascertain the

efffectiveness of the drugs, correct?

You don't know if you are going through withdrawal symptoms from the Effexor

or side effects from the Lexapro & /or Xanax, correct? Your doctor has no way

of knowing the answer to this question since there are no objective tests to

ascertain the necessity of the drugs or if the drugs have been effective,

correct? All the treatment is based on the paridym of giving the drug to the

patient, watching to see what the experimental results are and if the

effects are not what the patient wants trying another experimental

combination of the drug(s), correct?

6. Whatever your age, does your doctor ever forsee a time when you will feel

like you think you should feel without coming into their or another

psychiatrists office to recieve another combination or single drug

experimenting to see if it will make you feel the way you want to feel?

7. Does your doctor provide any other form treatment for anxiety or any of

the other new worsening symptoms that you are now experiencing after 3 years

of treatment now that you still have the same symptoms and more, different

and worse symptoms after 3 year of treatment costing $_______ in visits to

the doctor, $_______ in drugs and $________ in lost time from your life

going to the doctor and the drug store to pick up the meds and ________

minutes out of your life remembering to take and keep up with the drugs?

8. If you had diabetes, heart disease or cancer and you went to a particular

type of doctor for 3 years and after 3 years your original chief complaint

was worse than when you started, you had new and worse symptoms and you has

so little confidence in those doctors that you no longer felt you could ask

ask questions of the doctor about the effects of the drugs or what you

should do to get better on them, would you continue to seek that form of

treatment when you knew that diabetes, heart disease and cancer would all

shorten your lifespan and reduce your quality of life until you died earlier

than if you were finding treatment that actually cured the problem rather

than addressed the symptoms?

9. Take the total cost of the doctor's visits and prescription drugs for 3

years, divide by 3, multiply that number by the number of years you have as

your goal to live, what is that total? Is that cost for a health care

treatment worth it for a treatment that makes you feel worse after 3 years

than before you commenced treatment? Could you take a trip to the Bahamas or

purchase a small real estate investment with that amount of money?

10. What other forms of lifestyle changes (diet, supplements, exercise,

meditation, prayer, reading positive mental attitude books, associating with

people that don't cause you anxiety, whatever) can you make to address your

anxiety?

11. Could you find some of this information at www.alternativemedicine.com

or www.garynull.com?

12. If the Effexor that was working for 3 years is now no longer working,

does this mean that the SSRI's are designed to require more and more for the

same original patient satisfying results at initial treatment with the

manufacturers knowing that the patient will not be " cured " of their problem,

that the drug's effectiveness will lessen with the passage of time and that

more of that drug or an endless experimental combination of SSRI's will be

required after that passage of time to achieve the original satisfactory

results?

13. When you review the PDR for the studies that were done before the drug

was approved by the FDA for distribution to the public, was Effexor tested

for 3 years? 3 Months? Were any of the other drugs you have been prescribed

tested for more than a year before being approved for distribution to the

general public? Were any of the drugs tested in the combinations that you

are now being prescribed?

14. Have you considered calling the manufacturers to ask questions about the

drugs you are taking and documenting the time, date and the person you are

speaking to informing them that you are recording the conversation so that

your family will have it if you commit suicide on the drug?

15. Are any of the drugs you are being prescribed included in the list that

the FDA now requires a warning label for suicide on the " black box " ?

16. Would you feel like you are taking something healthy if it arrives in a

black box warning you that it might make you kill yourself?

17. Do you have a Last Will and Testament or have you updated your Last

Will and Testament, do you have a list of your assets and debts on file with

it so that your loved ones know where it is?

18. Did you know that no one on this list is licensed to give you any

medical advice but will share their personal experiences with these SSRI's

so that you can make your own informed health care decisions about how you

will control your own brain chemistry to improve the quality of your life?

These concerned Americans take time out of their lives to help their fellow

humans because of the pain and suffering SSRI's have caused in their lives

and the lives of their loved ones when they could not find help from the

doctors prescribing the medications or may be able to help you find the rare

psychiatrist that was still allowed to practice if they dared question the

paridym of keeping patients on psychotrophic medications and started trying

to find effective forms of treatment besides prescribing drugs that do not

have as their goal ever freeing the patient from their costs and may cause a

lack of effectiveness after a period of time and more symptoms than the

patient started out with after the initial hooking period to the addictive

drug?

19. " My Doc gave me some Xanax which I've been afraid to use but might

take .5 tonight to

help me cope. " How is taking something that you are afraid of going to

help you cope with anxiety?

20. Why are you " afraid " to take Xanax a drug prescribed by a licensed

health care practioner and approved by the FDA after _____ weeks of trial

studies? Is your subconscious trying to tell you something?

21. Before the development of SSRI's by the medical/pharmaceutical

industrial complex, how did people cope with anxiety without drugs that

didn't work after 3 years and $_______ and made them feel worse than when

the started and made them afraid to take the 3rd drug prescribed after the

2nd drug prescribed didn't work after the 1st drug prescribed didn't work?

22. " I have

anxiety like never before. " If you asked your doctor if he would continue

taking a drug and going to a doctor where the treatment resulted in more and

worse symptoms than after 3 years and $______ in treatment, would that be

" rational " ?

23. Have you developed any new health problems that are listed in the PRD as

side effects of Effexor in the last 3 years?

24. " It's hard to function. I don't even want to

leave the house. I

missed work on Friday. Did nothing but sleep and lay around on

Saturday and Sunday. " Would you recommend a friend to take 3 years of

Effexor?

25. Can your doctor refer you to a patient that has had positive results and

has " cured " their anxiety after 3 years of

Effexor, Xanax, or Lexapro?

26. What other drugs does your doctor anticipate prescribing to you if the

Effexor, Xanax, or Lexapro doesn't work?

27. Will your doctor admit that you are worse and haven't been helped in

the long run with whatever environmental or

biochemical etilogy that was causing your anxiety 3 years ago and that some

of your symptoms might be side effects or withdrawal symptoms or will you be

advised that you are the cause of your problems because it's the " progress

of your disease " that they have not corrected or try to brainwash you into

believing that you are not really having any side effects or withdrawal

symptoms and that perhaps you are delusional and need to be hospitalzed or

institutinalized at the cost of $______ per day?

28. How many of this doctors patients require assisted living, nursing

homes, psychiatric hospitalization and/or institutionalization after _____

years of treatment?

29. Do you have a power of attorney and medical power of attorney?

Can a Probate Judge appoint anyone to be the conservator of your assets if

you do not have a power of attorney? If you do not have medical power of

attorney and your conditions worsens, can the psychiatrist decide that it's

not good for your " mental health " to read your medical records, bar your

family from visiting you in the hospital and deny you the right to

communicate with the outside world denying phone privileges while you are

medicated enought to lay in the bed most of the day except for going to

group therapy so that maximum profit can be obtained by the counselor and

the hospital for insurance billing purposes with one counselor for many

patients?

30.Is there anyone in your family that would like to be able to access your

assets before the reading of the Last Will and Testament that could be

convinced by an attorney that is paid to prepare commitment papers that

would rather see you in an institution and have control over your assets

through the appointment of a guardian ad litem or conservator?

31. How many involuntary psychiatric commitments has the Probate Judge in

your county signed in the last year?

32. How many of these Americans that were committed involuntarily to a

psychiatric commitment were on psychiatric medications for years that

obviously did not result in the patient being " cured " of their original

problem?

33. How much income is generated for the psychiatric institutions by your

State Government by Americans committed to psychiatric institutions where

their assets are depleted while institutionalized so that upon their release

they are no longer able to profitably work ( " It's hard to function. I

don't even want to

leave the house. I

missed work on Friday. Did nothing but sleep and lay around on

Saturday and Sunday.

And now, Monday, I still can't function. " ) and the Mental Health Center in

your county that is funded by state and federal funds is appointed the payor

of the monthly pittance social security disablity check and the " mentally

ill " person has to fill out ao form to get permission from the mental health

center if their expenditure is approved and the Mental Health Center retains

control over the money that they will " help " you not spend because years of

psychiatric medications have now rendered their patient incapable of

rational financial management?

34. Did you know that 25% of all Americans on disablity are on disabilty for

" mental illness " and, to my knowledge, all are being prescribed psychiatric

medications and expected to be prescribed psychiatric medications until the

end of their lives?

35 Did you know that Depakote requires the testing of the blood every 3

months anticipating the liver failure that it can cause but it can still

kill the patient in 3 days without notice?

I don't know the answers to these questions for you, do you?

Thank you,

Dr. Lance, D.C.

- Original Message -----

From: " gr8seabass " <scottboyarsky@...>

<SSRI medications >

Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 9:18 PM

Subject: New member with a question

Hello All,

It is comforting to know that there are others going through what I

am experiencing. I

was on 150mg of EffexorXR for the past 3 years. About 4 weeks ago my

new doc

suggested I make the change from EffexorXR to Lexapro after I

explained that a lot of my

anxiety had returned to what it was prior to the start of Effexor.

No one explained to me

what reducing the Effexor would be like. The first week I went from

150mg of Effexor to

112mg and added 5mg of Lexapro. It was an easy week and adjusting

was fine. Fast

forward to this week. I'm now on my second week at 75mg of Effexor

and 10mg of

Lexapro. I feel horrible! I have chills, I can't focus, I have

anxiety like never before. I

don't know what to do. It's hard to function. I don't even want to

leave the house. I

missed work on Friday. Did nothing but sleep and lay around on

Saturday and Sunday.

And now, Monday, I still can't function.

My Doc gave me some Xanax which I've been afraid to use but might

take .5 tonight to

help me cope. Does anyone have any idea how long this will last?

Will the lexapro take

over and help reduce the Effexor withdrawal? Any ideas for getting

thru this?

Thanks,

-S

[Guest guest]

RE: " I

explained that a lot of my

anxiety had returned to what it was prior to the start of Effexor. "

Dear S.,

I am a Doctor of Chiropractic. However I am not writing in any professional

capacity at all. I was not fortunate enough to find this group before my

Mother committed suicide after 6 years of antidepressants that did not

improve her quality of life and may have contributed to her cancer, heart

disease & diabetes. Therefore, my comments are just from the general public

like yourself.

1. Ask yourself about your doctor: Why are you still going to a doctor that

you don't feel like you can get any answers to your questions and have to

turn to the internet asking questions from people that are not licensed to

prescribe. I'm not critisizing you because I lost faith in my Mother's

doctors but I never could find anyone to help me with the side effects &

withdrawal symptoms that I observed in her and the many, many different

doctors I went to for help.

2. You've been on a drug for 3 years. Now it's not working. Do your doctors

have any plan for you to never be off psychiatric drugs or are you expected

to be on them for the rest of your life?

3. How much had been paid for the Effexor for 3 years by your insurance

company and yourself and after 3 years you have not been " cured " of the

problem that you went to the doctor in the first place, the original drug

isn't working and now you are worse than before you first went to get teh

Effexor in the first place, right?

4. Have you ever read the Physician's Desk Reference page that comes in the

box with the bottle pills-not just the computer printout that the pharmacist

gives you? Have you read to see if the new drugs, Lexapor & Xanax have the

side effects tha you are experiencing?

5. There are no objective tests before or after treatment to ascertain the

efffectiveness of the drugs, correct?

You don't know if you are going through withdrawal symptoms from the Effexor

or side effects from the Lexapro & /or Xanax, correct? Your doctor has no way

of knowing the answer to this question since there are no objective tests to

ascertain the necessity of the drugs or if the drugs have been effective,

correct? All the treatment is based on the paridym of giving the drug to the

patient, watching to see what the experimental results are and if the

effects are not what the patient wants trying another experimental

combination of the drug(s), correct?

6. Whatever your age, does your doctor ever forsee a time when you will feel

like you think you should feel without coming into their or another

psychiatrists office to recieve another combination or single drug

experimenting to see if it will make you feel the way you want to feel?

7. Does your doctor provide any other form treatment for anxiety or any of

the other new worsening symptoms that you are now experiencing after 3 years

of treatment now that you still have the same symptoms and more, different

and worse symptoms after 3 year of treatment costing $_______ in visits to

the doctor, $_______ in drugs and $________ in lost time from your life

going to the doctor and the drug store to pick up the meds and ________

minutes out of your life remembering to take and keep up with the drugs?

8. If you had diabetes, heart disease or cancer and you went to a particular

type of doctor for 3 years and after 3 years your original chief complaint

was worse than when you started, you had new and worse symptoms and you has

so little confidence in those doctors that you no longer felt you could ask

ask questions of the doctor about the effects of the drugs or what you

should do to get better on them, would you continue to seek that form of

treatment when you knew that diabetes, heart disease and cancer would all

shorten your lifespan and reduce your quality of life until you died earlier

than if you were finding treatment that actually cured the problem rather

than addressed the symptoms?

9. Take the total cost of the doctor's visits and prescription drugs for 3

years, divide by 3, multiply that number by the number of years you have as

your goal to live, what is that total? Is that cost for a health care

treatment worth it for a treatment that makes you feel worse after 3 years

than before you commenced treatment? Could you take a trip to the Bahamas or

purchase a small real estate investment with that amount of money?

10. What other forms of lifestyle changes (diet, supplements, exercise,

meditation, prayer, reading positive mental attitude books, associating with

people that don't cause you anxiety, whatever) can you make to address your

anxiety?

11. Could you find some of this information at www.alternativemedicine.com

or www.garynull.com?

12. If the Effexor that was working for 3 years is now no longer working,

does this mean that the SSRI's are designed to require more and more for the

same original patient satisfying results at initial treatment with the

manufacturers knowing that the patient will not be " cured " of their problem,

that the drug's effectiveness will lessen with the passage of time and that

more of that drug or an endless experimental combination of SSRI's will be

required after that passage of time to achieve the original satisfactory

results?

13. When you review the PDR for the studies that were done before the drug

was approved by the FDA for distribution to the public, was Effexor tested

for 3 years? 3 Months? Were any of the other drugs you have been prescribed

tested for more than a year before being approved for distribution to the

general public? Were any of the drugs tested in the combinations that you

are now being prescribed?

14. Have you considered calling the manufacturers to ask questions about the

drugs you are taking and documenting the time, date and the person you are

speaking to informing them that you are recording the conversation so that

your family will have it if you commit suicide on the drug?

15. Are any of the drugs you are being prescribed included in the list that

the FDA now requires a warning label for suicide on the " black box " ?

16. Would you feel like you are taking something healthy if it arrives in a

black box warning you that it might make you kill yourself?

17. Do you have a Last Will and Testament or have you updated your Last

Will and Testament, do you have a list of your assets and debts on file with

it so that your loved ones know where it is?

18. Did you know that no one on this list is licensed to give you any

medical advice but will share their personal experiences with these SSRI's

so that you can make your own informed health care decisions about how you

will control your own brain chemistry to improve the quality of your life?

These concerned Americans take time out of their lives to help their fellow

humans because of the pain and suffering SSRI's have caused in their lives

and the lives of their loved ones when they could not find help from the

doctors prescribing the medications or may be able to help you find the rare

psychiatrist that was still allowed to practice if they dared question the

paridym of keeping patients on psychotrophic medications and started trying

to find effective forms of treatment besides prescribing drugs that do not

have as their goal ever freeing the patient from their costs and may cause a

lack of effectiveness after a period of time and more symptoms than the

patient started out with after the initial hooking period to the addictive

drug?

19. " My Doc gave me some Xanax which I've been afraid to use but might

take .5 tonight to

help me cope. " How is taking something that you are afraid of going to

help you cope with anxiety?

20. Why are you " afraid " to take Xanax a drug prescribed by a licensed

health care practioner and approved by the FDA after _____ weeks of trial

studies? Is your subconscious trying to tell you something?

21. Before the development of SSRI's by the medical/pharmaceutical

industrial complex, how did people cope with anxiety without drugs that

didn't work after 3 years and $_______ and made them feel worse than when

the started and made them afraid to take the 3rd drug prescribed after the

2nd drug prescribed didn't work after the 1st drug prescribed didn't work?

22. " I have

anxiety like never before. " If you asked your doctor if he would continue

taking a drug and going to a doctor where the treatment resulted in more and

worse symptoms than after 3 years and $______ in treatment, would that be

" rational " ?

23. Have you developed any new health problems that are listed in the PRD as

side effects of Effexor in the last 3 years?

24. " It's hard to function. I don't even want to

leave the house. I

missed work on Friday. Did nothing but sleep and lay around on

Saturday and Sunday. " Would you recommend a friend to take 3 years of

Effexor?

25. Can your doctor refer you to a patient that has had positive results and

has " cured " their anxiety after 3 years of

Effexor, Xanax, or Lexapro?

26. What other drugs does your doctor anticipate prescribing to you if the

Effexor, Xanax, or Lexapro doesn't work?

27. Will your doctor admit that you are worse and haven't been helped in

the long run with whatever environmental or

biochemical etilogy that was causing your anxiety 3 years ago and that some

of your symptoms might be side effects or withdrawal symptoms or will you be

advised that you are the cause of your problems because it's the " progress

of your disease " that they have not corrected or try to brainwash you into

believing that you are not really having any side effects or withdrawal

symptoms and that perhaps you are delusional and need to be hospitalzed or

institutinalized at the cost of $______ per day?

28. How many of this doctors patients require assisted living, nursing

homes, psychiatric hospitalization and/or institutionalization after _____

years of treatment?

29. Do you have a power of attorney and medical power of attorney?

Can a Probate Judge appoint anyone to be the conservator of your assets if

you do not have a power of attorney? If you do not have medical power of

attorney and your conditions worsens, can the psychiatrist decide that it's

not good for your " mental health " to read your medical records, bar your

family from visiting you in the hospital and deny you the right to

communicate with the outside world denying phone privileges while you are

medicated enought to lay in the bed most of the day except for going to

group therapy so that maximum profit can be obtained by the counselor and

the hospital for insurance billing purposes with one counselor for many

patients?

30.Is there anyone in your family that would like to be able to access your

assets before the reading of the Last Will and Testament that could be

convinced by an attorney that is paid to prepare commitment papers that

would rather see you in an institution and have control over your assets

through the appointment of a guardian ad litem or conservator?

31. How many involuntary psychiatric commitments has the Probate Judge in

your county signed in the last year?

32. How many of these Americans that were committed involuntarily to a

psychiatric commitment were on psychiatric medications for years that

obviously did not result in the patient being " cured " of their original

problem?

33. How much income is generated for the psychiatric institutions by your

State Government by Americans committed to psychiatric institutions where

their assets are depleted while institutionalized so that upon their release

they are no longer able to profitably work ( " It's hard to function. I

don't even want to

leave the house. I

missed work on Friday. Did nothing but sleep and lay around on

Saturday and Sunday.

And now, Monday, I still can't function. " ) and the Mental Health Center in

your county that is funded by state and federal funds is appointed the payor

of the monthly pittance social security disablity check and the " mentally

ill " person has to fill out ao form to get permission from the mental health

center if their expenditure is approved and the Mental Health Center retains

control over the money that they will " help " you not spend because years of

psychiatric medications have now rendered their patient incapable of

rational financial management?

34. Did you know that 25% of all Americans on disablity are on disabilty for

" mental illness " and, to my knowledge, all are being prescribed psychiatric

medications and expected to be prescribed psychiatric medications until the

end of their lives?

35 Did you know that Depakote requires the testing of the blood every 3

months anticipating the liver failure that it can cause but it can still

kill the patient in 3 days without notice?

I don't know the answers to these questions for you, do you?

Thank you,

Dr. Lance, D.C.

- Original Message -----

From: " gr8seabass " <scottboyarsky@...>

<SSRI medications >

Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 9:18 PM

Subject: New member with a question

Hello All,

It is comforting to know that there are others going through what I

am experiencing. I

was on 150mg of EffexorXR for the past 3 years. About 4 weeks ago my

new doc

suggested I make the change from EffexorXR to Lexapro after I

explained that a lot of my

anxiety had returned to what it was prior to the start of Effexor.

No one explained to me

what reducing the Effexor would be like. The first week I went from

150mg of Effexor to

112mg and added 5mg of Lexapro. It was an easy week and adjusting

was fine. Fast

forward to this week. I'm now on my second week at 75mg of Effexor

and 10mg of

Lexapro. I feel horrible! I have chills, I can't focus, I have

anxiety like never before. I

don't know what to do. It's hard to function. I don't even want to

leave the house. I

missed work on Friday. Did nothing but sleep and lay around on

Saturday and Sunday.

And now, Monday, I still can't function.

My Doc gave me some Xanax which I've been afraid to use but might

take .5 tonight to

help me cope. Does anyone have any idea how long this will last?

Will the lexapro take

over and help reduce the Effexor withdrawal? Any ideas for getting

thru this?

Thanks,

-S