fluoride

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/4/03 12:14:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kristenchavez@... writes:

> Was anyone else forced to participate in the " swish and spit "

> program at school in the late 70's, early 80's? I despised it, but

> my mother wouldn't sign a waiver to get me out of it. We had little

> dixie cups full of fluoride rinse brought into the classroom and

> we had to... you guessed it... swish it in our mouths and then spit

> it out! It was absolutely vile!

Has that stopped? I participated until second or third grade, which was late

80s, until my mom signed a waiver because I was complaining it bothered my

cheek muscles.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/4/03 11:34:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kristenchavez@... writes:

> ------ you young thing you!

I'm actually 30 right now, but I stayed back in third grade a lot.

> Do I remember correctly that you

> live in Massachusetts? Did you grow up there too?

Yep, yep.

> I grew up in

> Hanover, on the South Shore... maybe " Swish and Spit " is just a Mass.

> thing? I certainly hope they don't do it anymore. Imagine having

> school children put a poisonous substance in their mouths! Do they

> think none will ever swallow? Don't they know some kids eat paste?

> Nothing gets to me like government enforced " nutritional " programs

> for " our own good " ! Most parents assume the schools wouldn't

> sanction something if it wasn't good... (yet another thing to add to

> my list of possible reasons for ill health...)

I think they look at the cups to make sure you spit. Yeah, I know, they

really should make a gluten-free paste.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/4/03 11:51:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,

itchyink@... writes:

> And now there's mandatory tv watching in schools too!

> elaine

Oh yes, the infamous " channel one " ! I had a fair dose of that in high school.

That didn't bother me too much. What bothered me was the mandatory " agenda "

where they gave us this planner booklet and forced us to use it, to make us

more " responsible. " When they first implemented it, they could randomly stop

you and ask for your " agenda " and if you didn't have it you could get a

detention. Then they made it so you needed your " agenda " to sign in to go to

the

bathroom, and if you left it at home, I guess you went in the corner or

something.

The mandatory tv was kind of cool, because it gave us something to do during

study hall. Or else I'd have had to sit there for the full block and do

nothing but play with the gum on the chair in front of me.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 11/4/03 12:14:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> kristenchavez@y... writes:

>

> > Was anyone else forced to participate in the " swish and spit "

> > program at school in the late 70's, early 80's>

> Has that stopped? I participated until second or third grade,

which was late

> 80s, until my mom signed a waiver because I was complaining it

bothered my

> cheek muscles.

>

> Chris

------ you young thing you! Do I remember correctly that you

live in Massachusetts? Did you grow up there too? I grew up in

Hanover, on the South Shore... maybe " Swish and Spit " is just a Mass.

thing? I certainly hope they don't do it anymore. Imagine having

school children put a poisonous substance in their mouths! Do they

think none will ever swallow? Don't they know some kids eat paste?

Nothing gets to me like government enforced " nutritional " programs

for " our own good " ! Most parents assume the schools wouldn't

sanction something if it wasn't good... (yet another thing to add to

my list of possible reasons for ill health...)

[Guest guest]

And now there's mandatory tv watching in schools too!

elaine

Most parents assume the schools wouldn't

> sanction something if it wasn't good... (yet another thing to add to

> my list of possible reasons for ill health...)

[Guest guest]

> > kristenchavez@y... writes:

> >

> > > Was anyone else forced to participate in the " swish and spit "

> > > program at school in the late 70's, early 80's>

>

.... maybe " Swish and Spit " is just a Mass.

> thing? I certainly hope they don't do it anymore. Imagine having

> school children put a poisonous substance in their mouths! Do they

> think none will ever swallow? Don't they know some kids eat

paste?

Hello, I lived in the bay area of California while growing up, and I

had to do the swish and spit thing too. I wonder too if it

contributed to some of my thyroid and fluoride sensitivity issues.

Rebekah

[Guest guest]

> Fluoride is a toxin; the theory was that aluminum producers

> needed a place

> to dump their extracted fluoride, I think, and they bamboozled

> municipalities into buying it from them.

Wow! When you look at chemical elements in isolation without

considering the compounds that they form and their biological role,

you can end up with ridiculous concepts like the quote above. I feel

pretty certain that there are no published scientific references for

what you said.

Putting hype aside, fluorine combines with calcium phosphate to form

fluorapatite which is a harder mineral than hydroxyapatite, the main

constituent of tooth enamel. This is why fluoridation strengthens

teeth. Of course, if you use too much, specially during tooth growth,

you can end up with tooth discoloration and mottled teeth.

Although we all promote our points of view in our postings, let us

strive to base our notes on science rather than faulty logic.

Otherwise, we may end up with syllogisms of the type:

Chlorine is a poisonous gas that killed many people in World War I.

Table salt, which is sodium chloride (NaCl), contains chlorine.

Therefore, salt can kill you.

Of course, we all know that this is not true because our bodies

require salt in gram amounts daily.

Here is list of logical fallacies frequently encountered in debate:

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/

Tony

>

> >Hi Francesca ~

> >

> >Since childhood, I have had bad teeth and gums. I grew up in the

> >pre-fluoridated water era (does anyone else remember that fluoride

in the

> >water is some sort of communist plot? does anyone know how/why this

might be?)

>

> Fluoride is a toxin; the theory was that aluminum producers needed a

place

> to dump their extracted fluoride, I think, and they bamboozled

> municipalities into buying it from them. The idea is that although it's

> good for teeth, it ain't necessarily that good for the rest of the bod.

>

> >and have had many cavities, bad gums, and orthodontics. Yucki!

>

> Have faith in the Backman Treatment that I elucidated (named after my

> mother, who steered me toward the routine), and go forth an prosper.

Or, in

> our CRON context, Live Long and Prosper.

> ;-)

>

> >Most recently, I have begun a course of treatment with the dental

hygenist

> >for " Perio scaling and root planing. " What this means is that she

pushes

> >sharp probes under my gums to scrape off any bacteria that has

adhered to

> >the roots. The dentist assures me that the result will be healthy gums

> >adhering to the roots of my teeth. All I have to do is endure the

pain of

> >having my gums probed with sharp metal implements and the resulting

> >bleeding. Yuck!!

>

> I was offered that, too, but no longer need it. What _is_ useful, in my

> experience, is the treatment for quite-deep pockets wherein a local

> antibiotic is inserted into the pocket; that seems to help a good

deal, too.

>

> Maco

>

[Guest guest]

At 09:01 AM 1/9/2007, you wrote:

> > Fluoride is a toxin; the theory was that aluminum producers

> > needed a place

> > to dump their extracted fluoride, I think, and they bamboozled

> > municipalities into buying it from them.

>

>Wow! When you look at chemical elements in isolation without

>considering the compounds that they form and their biological role,

>you can end up with ridiculous concepts like the quote above. I feel

>pretty certain that there are no published scientific references for

>what you said.

Hey, I was just reporting why people opposed fluoridation, as was queried

here. I have no dog in this fight, and I used fluoride toothpaste. Maybe I

have to be excruciatingly clear in the future when I post something that's

not my position rather than say " the theory was. "

THESE ARE NOT MY PERSPECTIVES, I WAS RESPONDING TO THE QUERY,

Other examples of the antifluoride hysteria in a contemporary vein may be

found at

http://www.holisticmed.com/fluoride/toxic.html

and

http://www.apfn.org/THEWINDS/archive/medical/fluoride01-98.html

THESE ARE NOT MY PERSPECTIVES, I WAS RESPONDING TO THE QUERY,

Unsubtle enough, I hope, the above. Don't want anybody else to get confused.

Maco

[Guest guest]

>

[...snip...]

> Putting hype aside, fluorine combines with calcium phosphate to form

> fluorapatite which is a harder mineral than hydroxyapatite, the main

> constituent of tooth enamel. This is why fluoridation strengthens

> teeth. Of course, if you use too much, specially during tooth growth,

> you can end up with tooth discoloration and mottled teeth.

[...snip...]

I thought most flouride today is mixed with sodium rather than

calcium. In fact, this is one of the conspiracy theorists'

arguments, that only the calcium flouride was ever shown to be

of benefit to teeth, but the waste products of industry are of

a sodium nature, and so money interests won out and that is now

how flouride is formulated. <shrug>

-

[Guest guest]

On Mar 5, 2007, at 3:18 AM, wrote:

Most of us don't want too much exposure to fluoride anyway, since it

competes with iodine and may have other bad effects when levels are

too high. A little bit of fluoride is unavoidable and may actually be

necessary in the bones and teeth from what I have read. If there are

better ways to prevent tooth decay, why bother using an approach that

could have bad side effects?>>

A friend once pointed out that flouride reduces cavities by making the

teeth harder. If you take this a step further, it can also make our

bones harder and eventually brittle. He suspects flouride to be the

cause of osteoporosis ... I'm wondering if anyone knows of any studies

done on this?

Shireen, fairly new member who doesn't have much time to post but is

absorbing a lot and appreciating all the info here

[Guest guest]

Oh yes! There is much research on fluoride causing brittle bones,

especially hip fractures. Also when the teeth have too much

fluoride, so that they become mottled with white or brown patches,

they will often chip and break. There are very sad stories of

villages in India where they have a real fluoride problem where

people are absolutely crippled from fluorosis. Some of them don't

have much more fluoride than we get if you add the sources - water,

tea, and sulfuryl fluoride residues on food from fumigation; the

difference is we have better nutrition.

Vitamin C, D and iodine have been shown to have a protective effect

against fluoride, at least in children.

If you search back a few months here, there was some very good

research that iodine is actually very protective of the teeth -

providing some times 6 months of cavity protection from one

application. Iodine kills the bacteria that eat the enamel.

>

> Most of us don't want too much exposure to fluoride anyway, since

it

> competes with iodine and may have other bad effects when levels

are

> too high. A little bit of fluoride is unavoidable and may

actually be

> necessary in the bones and teeth from what I have read. If there

are

> better ways to prevent tooth decay, why bother using an approach

that

> could have bad side effects?>>

>

> A friend once pointed out that flouride reduces cavities by making

the

> teeth harder. If you take this a step further, it can also make our

> bones harder and eventually brittle. He suspects flouride to be the

> cause of osteoporosis ... I'm wondering if anyone knows of any

studies

> done on this?

>

> Shireen, fairly new member who doesn't have much time to post but

is

> absorbing a lot and appreciating all the info here

>

>

[Guest guest]

YES, and the ADA has just recently announced that small children and babies

should not be drinking anything with Fluoride because of the brittle bone

situation.

My mother has a deteriorating spine and I wonder how much is attributed to

Fluoride as she is a fluoride lover!! She always argues with me about it

and I have been telling her for 30 years how bad it is. She has gone from

5'8 " to 5'2 " and can barely walk any more.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of haecklers

Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 10:08 AM

Subject: Re: fluoride

Oh yes! There is much research on fluoride causing brittle bones,

especially hip fractures. Also when the teeth have too much

fluoride, so that they become mottled with white or brown patches,

they will often chip and break. There are very sad stories of

villages in India where they have a real fluoride problem where

people are absolutely crippled from fluorosis. Some of them don't

have much more fluoride than we get if you add the sources - water,

tea, and sulfuryl fluoride residues on food from fumigation; the

difference is we have better nutrition.

Vitamin C, D and iodine have been shown to have a protective effect

against fluoride, at least in children.

If you search back a few months here, there was some very good

research that iodine is actually very protective of the teeth -

providing some times 6 months of cavity protection from one

application. Iodine kills the bacteria that eat the enamel.

>

> Most of us don't want too much exposure to fluoride anyway, since

it

> competes with iodine and may have other bad effects when levels

are

> too high. A little bit of fluoride is unavoidable and may

actually be

> necessary in the bones and teeth from what I have read. If there

are

> better ways to prevent tooth decay, why bother using an approach

that

> could have bad side effects?>>

>

> A friend once pointed out that flouride reduces cavities by making

the

> teeth harder. If you take this a step further, it can also make our

> bones harder and eventually brittle. He suspects flouride to be the

> cause of osteoporosis ... I'm wondering if anyone knows of any

studies

> done on this?

>

> Shireen, fairly new member who doesn't have much time to post but

is

> absorbing a lot and appreciating all the info here

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have young children....what is an alternative to flouride? What should

they be brushing their teeth with???

Thanks in advance,

Leah

On 3/6/07, ALLYN FERRIS <aferris7272@...> wrote:

>

> YES, and the ADA has just recently announced that small children and

> babies

> should not be drinking anything with Fluoride because of the brittle bone

> situation.

>

> My mother has a deteriorating spine and I wonder how much is attributed to

> Fluoride as she is a fluoride lover!! She always argues with me about it

> and I have been telling her for 30 years how bad it is. She has gone from

> 5'8 " to 5'2 " and can barely walk any more.

>

>

>

> Allyn

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

trays.family@... writes:

>

> I have been told that floride will evaporate out of the water if you let it

> sit for a little while. I have a counter-top filter. So, the water sits and

> slowly filters to the bottom section. I assume the floride is out thru

> evaporation. ct >>

>

> Increasing temperature and/or pressure tends to remove dissolved gases. But

> compounds of fluoride or chlorine or phosphites etc are in solution and will

>

[Guest guest]

Let's be candid. The average voter is none too bright. I don't mean

" educated " but just no common sense. If a group put forward a ballot initiative

called

" Hug The Little Children Initiative " , the voters would rush to confirm it...no

matter what it really amounted to. That is how Fluoride gets put in water to

bring its poison and cancer.

[Guest guest]

My kids use the Weleda kids' toothpaste, I think it's sweetened with

xylitol, which has been shown to prevent tooth decay and it's

fluoride-free. Burt's Bees has some fluoride-free toothpaste as

well. I was shaken up when my son had 7 cavities at his first check-

up but the next one, 6 months later the dentist said the teeth look

great, no new cavities at all. I upped his iodine dose and started

him on vitamin C - an adult taking 2 grams a day and brushing once a

day is the equivalent of brushing 3 times a day for tooth

cleanliness. They don't really know why it keeps the teeth cleaner,

but there are published studies that it works. He likes powdered

(buffered) vitamin C added to gatorade and juice, and also drinks

Emergen-C.

The carbon filters don't get fluoride out of your drinking/cooking

water, either, only reverse-osmosis and distillers do.

> >

> > YES, and the ADA has just recently announced that small children

and

> > babies

> > should not be drinking anything with Fluoride because of the

brittle bone

> > situation.

> >

> > My mother has a deteriorating spine and I wonder how much is

attributed to

> > Fluoride as she is a fluoride lover!! She always argues with me

about it

> > and I have been telling her for 30 years how bad it is. She has

gone from

> > 5'8 " to 5'2 " and can barely walk any more.

> >

> >

> >

> > Allyn

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> The carbon filters don't get fluoride out of your drinking/cooking

> water, either, only reverse-osmosis and distillers do.

I have been told that floride will evaporate out of the water if you let it

sit for a little while. I have a counter-top filter. So, the water sits and

slowly filters to the bottom section. I assume the floride is out thru

evaporation. ct

[Guest guest]

No, that is actually chlorine but now they use chloramine and it will not

evaporate. That depends on where you live too. If they put chlorine in

your water you can let it sit and it will evaporate.

Not fluoride though.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Chaelcon@...

Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 8:33 PM

Subject: Re: Re: fluoride

trays.family@ <mailto:trays.family%40coolaccess.net> coolaccess.net writes:

>

> I have been told that floride will evaporate out of the water if you let

it

> sit for a little while. I have a counter-top filter. So, the water sits

and

> slowly filters to the bottom section. I assume the floride is out thru

> evaporation. ct >>

>

> Increasing temperature and/or pressure tends to remove dissolved gases.

But

> compounds of fluoride or chlorine or phosphites etc are in solution and

will

>

[Guest guest]

See this: http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=422807

A top Canadian dentist moves from pushing fluoride to apologizing and

reversing his opinions on the need and safety of putting fluoride in

the water.

I've corresponded with him and he's a really neat guy.

>

> No, that is actually chlorine but now they use chloramine and it

will not

> evaporate. That depends on where you live too. If they put

chlorine in

> your water you can let it sit and it will evaporate.

>

> Not fluoride though.

>

> Allyn

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

> Chaelcon@...

> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 8:33 PM

>

> Subject: Re: Re: fluoride

>

>

>

> trays.family@ <mailto:trays.family%40coolaccess.net> coolaccess.net

writes:

> >

> > I have been told that floride will evaporate out of the water if

you let

> it

> > sit for a little while. I have a counter-top filter. So, the

water sits

> and

> > slowly filters to the bottom section. I assume the floride is out

thru

> > evaporation. ct >>

> >

> > Increasing temperature and/or pressure tends to remove dissolved

gases.

> But

> > compounds of fluoride or chlorine or phosphites etc are in

solution and

> will

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- Renate <haecklers@...> wrote:

> Vitamin C, D and iodine have been shown to have a protective effect

> against fluoride, at least in children.

Renate,

Maybe someone should add a little sea kelp to toothpaste

The xylitol you mentioned in another post does sound like a good

additive for toothpaste. Certainly better than aspartame or saccharin!

I'm also curious how well sea kelp iodine is absorbed through digestion?

If it's well absorbed, perhaps it could be used by sprinkling into

foods. I've never tried it so I have no idea how well it tastes with

other foods.

[Guest guest]

I am on the iodine group and have read lots of research on there. Iodine,

fluoride, bromide are all halogens. Iodine will displace the other halogens

in large enough proportions. Bromide is in wheat products so if we have

eaten any flour products chances are you have lots of bromide in your

system. It is not good for you either. In the 1920' s and 30's they used

iodine in the flour and then changed to bromide. Dr. Brownstein, who is

well know for his study and use of iodine, says it took him three years of

taking 50 mg. of iodine to finally cleanse his body of fluoride and bromide.

If you want good info on iodine you can visit his website or check out

www.iodine4health.com <http://www.iodine4health.com/> . This website is run

by the same person who owns the iodine group. It is very interesting.

I take 50 mg. a day of iodine.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 8:14 AM

Subject: Re: fluoride

--- Renate <haecklers@...> wrote:

> Vitamin C, D and iodine have been shown to have a protective effect

> against fluoride, at least in children.

Renate,

Maybe someone should add a little sea kelp to toothpaste

The xylitol you mentioned in another post does sound like a good

additive for toothpaste. Certainly better than aspartame or saccharin!

I'm also curious how well sea kelp iodine is absorbed through digestion?

If it's well absorbed, perhaps it could be used by sprinkling into

foods. I've never tried it so I have no idea how well it tastes with

other foods.

[Guest guest]

I haven't found any kelp flakes I like the taste of, and I do

actually like the toasted seaweed in sushi. I use " Sea-Adine " sodium

benzoate and all, because it has almost no flavor.

Perhaps sea vegetables are an acquired taste?

> > Vitamin C, D and iodine have been shown to have a protective

effect

> > against fluoride, at least in children.

>

> Renate,

>

> Maybe someone should add a little sea kelp to toothpaste

>

> The xylitol you mentioned in another post does sound like a good

> additive for toothpaste. Certainly better than aspartame or

saccharin!

>

> I'm also curious how well sea kelp iodine is absorbed through

digestion?

>

> If it's well absorbed, perhaps it could be used by sprinkling into

> foods. I've never tried it so I have no idea how well it tastes

with

> other foods.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Also, from what I have read, it takes a lot of sea veggies to get the iodine

you need.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of haecklers

Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: fluoride

I haven't found any kelp flakes I like the taste of, and I do

actually like the toasted seaweed in sushi. I use " Sea-Adine " sodium

benzoate and all, because it has almost no flavor.

Perhaps sea vegetables are an acquired taste?

> > Vitamin C, D and iodine have been shown to have a protective

effect

> > against fluoride, at least in children.

>

> Renate,

>

> Maybe someone should add a little sea kelp to toothpaste

>

> The xylitol you mentioned in another post does sound like a good

> additive for toothpaste. Certainly better than aspartame or

saccharin!

>

> I'm also curious how well sea kelp iodine is absorbed through

digestion?

>

> If it's well absorbed, perhaps it could be used by sprinkling into

> foods. I've never tried it so I have no idea how well it tastes

with

> other foods.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 3/7/07, ALLYN FERRIS <aferris7272@...> wrote:

> Also, from what I have read, it takes a lot of sea veggies to get the iodine

> you need.

It takes one teaspoon of the kelp flakes to meet the RDA for iodine.

Much less than any other food.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Yes, but like most other levels of RDA, it is way too low. After reading

about iodine and taking it now for almost two years, most people in our

country are deficient. Dr. Brownstein who is a specialist in iodine along

with thyroid problems, says most people need to take 50 mg. a day. If he

gets a woman with breast cancer he immediately puts them on 100 mg. a day.

I have done my own patch tests for several years now and when I first did

one the iodine was gone off my skin in 20 minutes. Now, after two years, it

takes 7to 10 hours. It should last 24 or more hours. So, I am still

deficient. It is also a good idea to do an iodine loading test.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Masterjohn

Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 3:09 PM

Subject: Re: Re: fluoride

On 3/7/07, ALLYN FERRIS <aferris7272@ <mailto:aferris7272%40verizon.net>

verizon.net> wrote:

> Also, from what I have read, it takes a lot of sea veggies to get the

iodine

> you need.

It takes one teaspoon of the kelp flakes to meet the RDA for iodine.

Much less than any other food.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.choleste <http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com>

rol-and-health.com