Guest guest Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 , I think this is the one you were asking about. Also, when you have time sign in to the Crusader's home page. Pull up the files section. Find the folder that says Research & Clinical Studies or something like that. Then find the file that says Clin Chem or The CYP 2D6 factor. There is a wealth of informtion, clinical studies to back up what I'm saying. Let me know if you have any difficulty accessing this information. ________________________________________________________ Hi Kim, Yep - you're right. You see, these drugs are extensively metabolized in the liver. It is necessary to have an adequate supply of a particular enzyme in order for them to be metabolized. In the case of Prozac, one of the known necessary enzymes is from the CYP family, more specifically the CYP 2D6 enzyme. It is known that approximately 7-10% of the caucasion population does not have adequate supply of this enzyme, or lacks this enzyme entirely. For other ethnic populations, the percent who don't have enough of a particular enzyme may be much higher. There are specific testing procedures that can determine if a person is a poor metabolizer, extensive metabolizer or ultra-extensive metabolizer. Those that are either lacking this enzyme entirely due to some genetic defect or have insufficient supply are called "poor metabolizers". So, if they can't metabolize the drug, or if it takes a lot more time to metabolize the drug.. and the drug just keeps getting fed into their system, what do you suppose happens? My thinking is that the drug will either build up to a toxic level very quickly, or will build to a toxic level over time. If a non-diabetic person were to be given insulin, what do you think the effects would be? OK.. maybe the first time, his body would suffer a bit of a shock, but being healthy, would absorb the shock, send in little messengers to take care of the problem... and be done with it... But, if this non-diabetic person kept taking insulin every day.. his body would get worn down pretty quick trying to take care of this problem... Do you see what I'm getting at? There are other studies that indicate that "too much" serotonin is what is found in the brains of those who were considered manic or psychotic based on the results of autopsys that were done... The testing procedures that can determine if someone has enough of this enzyme are called "phenotyping" and "genotyping". Do you belong to SSRI medications? There is a more extensive explanation of this in a file that is found under the title: Clinical Research. The CYP 2D6 enzyme is the particular enzyme responsible for metabolizing Prozac and several other drugs... Other enzymes act upon the other SSRIs.. but many of them fall within the CYP class of enzymes. I've already read arguments about this theory. If you read all of the information on the Prozac drug insert, you will notice that this factor is embedded within the body of information on the drug. From the information that is given, you would be led to believe that although the drug manufacturer acknowledges that different people have different capacities for metabolizing the drug, this particular bit of evidence is no cause for alarm... but, I believe otherwise... The fellow who wrote to Suzy - This Dr. Rossby- doesn't believe that Prozac can be toxic, because the action of Prozac does nothing to increase serotonin levels... only keeps what natural serotinin that's already in the brain from being re-uptaken back into the neuron. The general belief is that the serotonin that's already in the brain cavities just remains there longer... But, you see.. it's all based on theory.. or "belief"... So, I say - where's the science??? Dr. Rossby doesn't believe Prozac can be toxic. I believe it can be. One day I will help this "learned" man open his eyes.... Until he can prove to me that it can't be toxic, I will continue to believe that for some people, Prozac (and all other psychiatric drugs), can not only be toxic to their systems, but deadly as well... And coupled with this finding - I believe that the action of Prozac is not confined to just inhibiting serotonin from being reuptaken into the neurons... I believe that Prozac creates a dominoe effect in the brain... because when the natural serotonin activity is impeded or "messed with", I believe a series of other events start to take place to try and compensate for this "upset". And, since they (scientists), can't disprove my own logic (because the most highly trained scientist when asked point blank - "just what is it that Prozac does?" - if he's honest, he'll tell you "I really doesn't know"... But we think it does this...) then I'll just go with what I've discovered, and keep building on it... So, there you have it.. My two cents worth of information. Hey, anybody from Eli Lilly on the boards tonight? I'd sure love it if you could prove my theory wrong!!! The Avenging Angel Equiskr@... wrote: In a message dated 2/4/2002 5:10:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, israelswarrior@... writes: We even know why some people seem to do OK on them for awhile, while others experience negative responses immediately. Dawn I know your busy, however if you have time to explain this to me, I am interested. At you leisure, if there is such a thing with you. I know people who are on it for 15 years without any problems a go off to have children with minimum problems and then back on again...Is it our liver? Kim >From: "stinky72001" >Reply-SSRI medications >SSRI medications >Subject: Re: >Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 19:57:47 -0000 > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here Dear Dawn, Thanks for the advice - you are so right, I would have just made an ass out of myself if I had reacted at the time. as far as HRT goes, believe me I already know. I was on them for 5 years, shortly after going on the zoloft. I stopped taking them in October, the same time I joined these groups and started my zoloft taper. I have a t-shirt from 'big dogs' that says 'we don't need no stinkin leishes' well, I don't need their stiiiiiinken drugs. hugs, p.s. you posted something you wrote a couple of days ago explaining how you understood how ssri's affect different people - some people have terrible reactions and then some people are ok for awhile, but all the while these drugs sneak around in their bodies silently destroying stuff in there. either way, you are destroyed from the inside out. It is just a matter of how long it will take. (sheesh-am I getting that right?) but I can't find it and want to print it out and read it so that I can remember it because it was the most logical wonderful explanation that I have read. You truly have a gift of getting your point across without being offensive and in an understandable way for all levels of intelligence. I just remember that I really want to keep that article but can't find it again. would you point me to the 'subject' so I can find it easier or repost it? Thanks..... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 , I think this is the one you were asking about. Also, when you have time sign in to the Crusader's home page. Pull up the files section. Find the folder that says Research & Clinical Studies or something like that. Then find the file that says Clin Chem or The CYP 2D6 factor. There is a wealth of informtion, clinical studies to back up what I'm saying. Let me know if you have any difficulty accessing this information. ________________________________________________________ Hi Kim, Yep - you're right. You see, these drugs are extensively metabolized in the liver. It is necessary to have an adequate supply of a particular enzyme in order for them to be metabolized. In the case of Prozac, one of the known necessary enzymes is from the CYP family, more specifically the CYP 2D6 enzyme. It is known that approximately 7-10% of the caucasion population does not have adequate supply of this enzyme, or lacks this enzyme entirely. For other ethnic populations, the percent who don't have enough of a particular enzyme may be much higher. There are specific testing procedures that can determine if a person is a poor metabolizer, extensive metabolizer or ultra-extensive metabolizer. Those that are either lacking this enzyme entirely due to some genetic defect or have insufficient supply are called "poor metabolizers". So, if they can't metabolize the drug, or if it takes a lot more time to metabolize the drug.. and the drug just keeps getting fed into their system, what do you suppose happens? My thinking is that the drug will either build up to a toxic level very quickly, or will build to a toxic level over time. If a non-diabetic person were to be given insulin, what do you think the effects would be? OK.. maybe the first time, his body would suffer a bit of a shock, but being healthy, would absorb the shock, send in little messengers to take care of the problem... and be done with it... But, if this non-diabetic person kept taking insulin every day.. his body would get worn down pretty quick trying to take care of this problem... Do you see what I'm getting at? There are other studies that indicate that "too much" serotonin is what is found in the brains of those who were considered manic or psychotic based on the results of autopsys that were done... The testing procedures that can determine if someone has enough of this enzyme are called "phenotyping" and "genotyping". Do you belong to SSRI medications? There is a more extensive explanation of this in a file that is found under the title: Clinical Research. The CYP 2D6 enzyme is the particular enzyme responsible for metabolizing Prozac and several other drugs... Other enzymes act upon the other SSRIs.. but many of them fall within the CYP class of enzymes. I've already read arguments about this theory. If you read all of the information on the Prozac drug insert, you will notice that this factor is embedded within the body of information on the drug. From the information that is given, you would be led to believe that although the drug manufacturer acknowledges that different people have different capacities for metabolizing the drug, this particular bit of evidence is no cause for alarm... but, I believe otherwise... The fellow who wrote to Suzy - This Dr. Rossby- doesn't believe that Prozac can be toxic, because the action of Prozac does nothing to increase serotonin levels... only keeps what natural serotinin that's already in the brain from being re-uptaken back into the neuron. The general belief is that the serotonin that's already in the brain cavities just remains there longer... But, you see.. it's all based on theory.. or "belief"... So, I say - where's the science??? Dr. Rossby doesn't believe Prozac can be toxic. I believe it can be. One day I will help this "learned" man open his eyes.... Until he can prove to me that it can't be toxic, I will continue to believe that for some people, Prozac (and all other psychiatric drugs), can not only be toxic to their systems, but deadly as well... And coupled with this finding - I believe that the action of Prozac is not confined to just inhibiting serotonin from being reuptaken into the neurons... I believe that Prozac creates a dominoe effect in the brain... because when the natural serotonin activity is impeded or "messed with", I believe a series of other events start to take place to try and compensate for this "upset". And, since they (scientists), can't disprove my own logic (because the most highly trained scientist when asked point blank - "just what is it that Prozac does?" - if he's honest, he'll tell you "I really doesn't know"... But we think it does this...) then I'll just go with what I've discovered, and keep building on it... So, there you have it.. My two cents worth of information. Hey, anybody from Eli Lilly on the boards tonight? I'd sure love it if you could prove my theory wrong!!! The Avenging Angel Equiskr@... wrote: In a message dated 2/4/2002 5:10:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, israelswarrior@... writes: We even know why some people seem to do OK on them for awhile, while others experience negative responses immediately. Dawn I know your busy, however if you have time to explain this to me, I am interested. At you leisure, if there is such a thing with you. I know people who are on it for 15 years without any problems a go off to have children with minimum problems and then back on again...Is it our liver? Kim >From: "stinky72001" >Reply-SSRI medications >SSRI medications >Subject: Re: >Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 19:57:47 -0000 > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here Dear Dawn, Thanks for the advice - you are so right, I would have just made an ass out of myself if I had reacted at the time. as far as HRT goes, believe me I already know. I was on them for 5 years, shortly after going on the zoloft. I stopped taking them in October, the same time I joined these groups and started my zoloft taper. I have a t-shirt from 'big dogs' that says 'we don't need no stinkin leishes' well, I don't need their stiiiiiinken drugs. hugs, p.s. you posted something you wrote a couple of days ago explaining how you understood how ssri's affect different people - some people have terrible reactions and then some people are ok for awhile, but all the while these drugs sneak around in their bodies silently destroying stuff in there. either way, you are destroyed from the inside out. It is just a matter of how long it will take. (sheesh-am I getting that right?) but I can't find it and want to print it out and read it so that I can remember it because it was the most logical wonderful explanation that I have read. You truly have a gift of getting your point across without being offensive and in an understandable way for all levels of intelligence. I just remember that I really want to keep that article but can't find it again. would you point me to the 'subject' so I can find it easier or repost it? Thanks..... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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