Re: (unknown)

[Guest guest]

all this doesnt help me now, i already opened it.

Melinda

Re: (unknown)

At 10:32 PM 11/27/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>ATTENTION....

>I WOULD SERIOUSLY NOT OPEN THIS ATTACHMENT!! I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE IT

>HOLDS SOME KIND OF

>VIRUS...

>

>love,

>

,

You're right.....it set my virus program off. Everyone should delete

the file.

E-Mail: mailto:tabco@...

Web Page: http://www.bee.net/tabco/

Net Pager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/3106983

ICQ # 3106983

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“Hold on to what is good, even if it's a handful of earth. Hold on to what

you believe, even if it's a tree that stands by itself. Hold on to what you

must do even, if it's a long way from here. Hold on to your life, even if

it's easier to let go. " - Pueblo Prayer

[Guest guest]

Francois, Please tell us what this retroviral therapy is?

Carol in LI

[Guest guest]

Margaret...my husband owns Indoor Enviromental Technologies, Inc., which is

a heating, air conditioning and duct cleaning company. We both are very

concerned with natural healing, and being truly healthy. I spoke with him

about your concerns with your home, and he recommended a good duct cleaning

(after renovations are complete so as not to recontaminate the duct system),

and an air cleaner/purifier called " Sanuvox, Next Generation Natural Air

Purifier " . Their web is www.sanuvox.com. He does NOT recommend ozone

purifiers, as they have had unfavorable reviews due to the ozone they use

(see consumer reports, January or before 2000). The sanuvox cleans the air

with ultra-violet light, like the sun uses. For more information on duct

cleaning (and getting a thorough job) see www.nadca.com.

As for macrobiotic cooking, Pirello's book, Cooking the Whole

Foods Way, is very good. She offers alot of different menus, techniques, and

tips that are very helpful, and the book has a glossary of different

macrobiotic foods, and what they are. The book costs about $18. Hope this

helps...Sharon

(unknown)

> Hello friends. Thank you for all your help with the dark circles under my

> daughters eyes. I did see a doctor in Royal Oak that was suggested to me.

> He was excellent. My daughter is in fact allergic to mold. She is also

> allergic to yeast. We are treating her.

>

> I have a very old home that we are renovating. I am considering a machine

> that uses Ozone to clean the air. Wondering if anyone knew of these

> machines and if they are good. They are suppose to clean the mold from

the

> air. I understand that Ozone is not good for you so is this machine

really

> helping me?

>

> Also, does anyone know about Macrobiotics. We have made a major lifestyle

> change. So far it has been an adventure learning how to eat and prepare

> the different foods. Any advice would be helpful.

>

> I am so grateful for this group.

>

> Margaret White

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you SO MUCH for your help. I will look on the web site for a

reputable duct cleaning place. We are going to do this but I fear since we

are on a crawl space and have blown air ... mold would still be in the air.

I will definitely look into the Sanuvox. I am trying to look at all the

products and find the best one within our means. Also the cook book will

be great! I've been experimenting to my family's dismay. I am having fun.

Thanks Again.

Blessings Be

Margaret White

" DeVan "

<ietinc@erols <Vaccinationsegroups>

.com> cc:

Subject: Re:

(unknown)

12/01/2000

11:31 PM

Please

respond to

Vaccinations

Margaret...my husband owns Indoor Enviromental Technologies, Inc., which is

a heating, air conditioning and duct cleaning company. We both are very

concerned with natural healing, and being truly healthy. I spoke with him

about your concerns with your home, and he recommended a good duct cleaning

(after renovations are complete so as not to recontaminate the duct

system),

and an air cleaner/purifier called " Sanuvox, Next Generation Natural Air

Purifier " . Their web is www.sanuvox.com. He does NOT recommend ozone

purifiers, as they have had unfavorable reviews due to the ozone they use

(see consumer reports, January or before 2000). The sanuvox cleans the air

with ultra-violet light, like the sun uses. For more information on duct

cleaning (and getting a thorough job) see www.nadca.com.

As for macrobiotic cooking, Pirello's book, Cooking the Whole

Foods Way, is very good. She offers alot of different menus, techniques,

and

tips that are very helpful, and the book has a glossary of different

macrobiotic foods, and what they are. The book costs about $18. Hope this

helps...Sharon

(unknown)

> Hello friends. Thank you for all your help with the dark circles under

my

> daughters eyes. I did see a doctor in Royal Oak that was suggested to

me.

> He was excellent. My daughter is in fact allergic to mold. She is also

> allergic to yeast. We are treating her.

>

> I have a very old home that we are renovating. I am considering a

machine

> that uses Ozone to clean the air. Wondering if anyone knew of these

> machines and if they are good. They are suppose to clean the mold from

the

> air. I understand that Ozone is not good for you so is this machine

really

> helping me?

>

> Also, does anyone know about Macrobiotics. We have made a major

lifestyle

> change. So far it has been an adventure learning how to eat and prepare

> the different foods. Any advice would be helpful.

>

> I am so grateful for this group.

>

> Margaret White

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sir,

Sorry, as a viral protection policy,

we do not open attachments from unknown sourse.

Please send info as open email please.

Vitally yours,

Dr. H. Maher, A.B.A.A.H.P.

Editor, " Longevity News "

subscribe@...

http://www.RxforWellness.com

" Your FREE Anti-Aging Home Study Course On-Line! "

(unknown)

[Guest guest]

Margaret...glad I could be of some help. I wanted to respond to your

concerns about being on a crawl space and having duct cleaning done. As long

as your duct work is properly sealed, and cleaned (and sanitized), you

should not have to worry about any mold in your ducts. However, if there is

mold elsewhere in your home, your ductwork can get recontaminated from the

circulating air. NADCA recommends duct cleaning every 3-5 years, depending

upon your circumstances. We tell our customers that they are their own best

judge...some have their ducts cleaned every year (due to allergies, asthma,

etc.), others can go as long as 6-7 years. Also, if you have fiberglass

ductwork, you can't have it sanitized, as you would be introducing moisture

( hence, the potential for mold growth) into the ducts. If you have steel

ductwork, the sanitizing works well. If you DO have fiberglass ductwork, you

can have it " encapsulated " , which means they fog in a sealer that prevents

the mold, mildew or bacteria from being in contact with the air moving

through the system. A proper duct cleaning and a good filter/purifier are

NOT inexpensive, but they are worth the expense. Duct cleaners are not

allowed, by law, to make any medical claims, but my personal experience,

through talking with customers, has been that many people are helped with

allergies and upper respiratory problems through duct cleaning, and proper

care and maintenance of quality filters/purifiers...hope all goes

well...Sharon

(unknown)

>

>

> > Hello friends. Thank you for all your help with the dark circles under

> my

> > daughters eyes. I did see a doctor in Royal Oak that was suggested to

> me.

> > He was excellent. My daughter is in fact allergic to mold. She is also

> > allergic to yeast. We are treating her.

> >

> > I have a very old home that we are renovating. I am considering a

> machine

> > that uses Ozone to clean the air. Wondering if anyone knew of these

> > machines and if they are good. They are suppose to clean the mold from

> the

> > air. I understand that Ozone is not good for you so is this machine

> really

> > helping me?

> >

> > Also, does anyone know about Macrobiotics. We have made a major

> lifestyle

> > change. So far it has been an adventure learning how to eat and prepare

> > the different foods. Any advice would be helpful.

> >

> > I am so grateful for this group.

> >

> > Margaret White

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I just wanted to let you know that this file contains a virus.

Thank you,

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Sorry, about that message, it sounds a little confusing. There was a

message that was sent out to cures for cancer that contained a file with a

bill_gates_jpg.pic extension, and I scanned it and it came up with a virus

found, so please scan your hard drive and ensure that you don't have a virus

on your computer.

thanks,

michelle

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

this was so funny! i loved it...

Mikki

>From: " susanne Sullivan " <ninjagrandma@...>

>Reply-egroups

>egroups

>Subject: (unknown)

>Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 08:37:42 -0500

>

>This is for all the chocoholics!!! ne

>

>

>

>

>

>From: Geegee7188@...

>Subject: A CHOCOLATE CHRISTMAS

>

>

>A CHOCOLATE CHRISTMAS

>

>Twas the night before Christmas and all round my hips

>Were Fannie May candies that sneaked past my lips.

>Fudge brownies were stored in the freezer with care,

>In hopes that my thighs would forget they were there.

>

>While Mama in her girdle and I in chin straps

>Had just settled down to sugar-borne naps.

>When out in the pantry there arose such a clatter,

>I sprang from my bed to see what was the matter.

>

>Away to the kitchen I flew like a flash,

>Tore open the icebox then threw up the sash.

>The marshmallow look of the new-fallen snow

>Sent thoughts of a binge to my body below.

>

>When what to my wandering eyes should appear:

>A marzipan Santa with eight chocolate reindeer!

>That huge chunk of candy so luscious and slick

>I knew in a second that I'd wind up sick.

>

>The sweet-coated Santa, those sugared reindeer,

>I closed my eyes tightly but still I could hear;

>On Pritzker, on Stillman, on weak one, on TOPS

>A Weight Watcher dropout from sugar detox.

>

>From the top of the scales to the top of the hall

>Now dash away pounds; now dash away all.

>Dressed up in Lane from my head to nightdress

>My clothes were all bulging from too much excess.

>

>My droll little mouth and my round little belly

>They shook when I laughed like a bowl full of jelly.

>I spoke not a word but went straight to my work

>Ate all of the candy then turned with a jerk.

>

>And laying a finger beside my heartburn

>Gave a quick nod toward the bedroom I turned.

>I eased into bed, to the heavens I cry

>If temptation's removed I'll get thin by and by.

>

>And I mumbled again as I turned for the night

> " In the morning I'll starve...

>'til I take that first bite! "

>

>

>_______________________________________________________________________________\

______

>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :

>http://explorer.msn.com

>

>

>The Being Sick Community

>

>Visual problems with colors?

>Click the link below and select the modify link to your right. Then select

>the **Send Plain Text Email** option. This will stop you receiving emails

>with colored or enlarged fonts.

>

>

>Members Lounge:-

>Photo Album, memorial page, members profiles, birthdays, locations, medical

>resources, counselling via email, and a whole bunch of free things.

>http://www.elderwyn.com/members

>

>Message Archives and Digest Attachment Pictures:-

>messages/

>

>Chat:-

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>/chat.htm

>

>Sharing our resources:-

>Add a website URL you have found useful.

>

>

>Personal Complaints or problems:-

>Please contact a moderator should you require assistance with anything

>technical or if you are upset by another. The email address for the

>moderators is <-owneregroups>

>

>Subscription Details:-

>1) Individual email - means that every email sent to the list you receive.

>2) Daily Digest - sends you 25 messages in one single email for you to

>browse. This is an excellent option if you receive alot of email.

>3) Web only/No mail - means that you can pop into eGroups at your

>convenience and receive no email.

>To modify your subscription settings please visit

>mygroups

>

>To subscribe or unsubscribe

>subscribe/

>

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

>“Hold on to what is good, even if it's a handful of earth. Hold on to what

>you believe, even if it's a tree that stands by itself. Hold on to what you

>must do even, if it's a long way from here. Hold on to your life, even if

>it's easier to let go. " - Pueblo Prayer

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/11/00 6:48:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,

TKraemer1@... writes:

> How much fragrance oil do I add to a 4 oz container of unscented lotion

>

Terry, I use 1/2 tsp per 8 oz and 1/4 tsp per 4 oz in my lotions, a tad bit

more in my liquid soap. It is a bit on the strong side but when I put less

in then everybody complained, they liked it strong. HTH,

D. King

Dandies Bath Candies

Lakeland, FL 33813

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/11/00 6:48:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,

TKraemer1@... writes:

> How much fragrance oil do I add to a 4 oz container of unscented lotion

>

Terry, I use 1/2 tsp per 8 oz and 1/4 tsp per 4 oz in my lotions, a tad bit

more in my liquid soap. It is a bit on the strong side but when I put less

in then everybody complained, they liked it strong. HTH,

D. King

Dandies Bath Candies

Lakeland, FL 33813

[Guest guest]

THIS CONTAINS A VIRUS - DON'T OPEN

(unknown)

[Guest guest]

Nothing was in this message, received at 9:51 PST. I'm reading your messages

-- I'm kind of tired, and I don't necessarily respond to things that aren't

questions. Not ignoring you.

[Guest guest]

Lee,

I know of him. He is using a type of Hgh for arthritis and plans on

injecting discs later this year, I called him after reading the article.

He has not started on discs yet. I am staying in touch with him now.

Steve Boracchia

lee groth wrote:

> Jan/03/2001 16:16 ET

>

> -----Original Message-----

> Dear Gordon and others,

> Does anyone have first hand information as to whether or not growth

> hormone will help regenerate a bad disc that resulted from an injury?

> Steve Boracchia

>

> There was an article (from LEF I think?) about a physician in south

> Florida who has injected directly DHEA into the disk, with good

> results. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

>

> Lee Groth

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lee,

I know of him. He is using a type of Hgh for arthritis and plans on

injecting discs later this year, I called him after reading the article.

He has not started on discs yet. I am staying in touch with him now.

Steve Boracchia

lee groth wrote:

> Jan/03/2001 16:16 ET

>

> -----Original Message-----

> Dear Gordon and others,

> Does anyone have first hand information as to whether or not growth

> hormone will help regenerate a bad disc that resulted from an injury?

> Steve Boracchia

>

> There was an article (from LEF I think?) about a physician in south

> Florida who has injected directly DHEA into the disk, with good

> results. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

>

> Lee Groth

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear

Hello from a fellow South African also from Johannesburg.

Various people said to me that they are OK eating Ostrich meat - so give it a

go, your body soon will tell you if it is an OK for you or not. I am vegan and

therefore don't eat any form of meat.

Good luck

Elize

Johannesburg South Africa

>>> rtrudewig@... 12/13/00 10:33AM >>>

[Guest guest]

Did you read my previous post on getting your child to swallow pills. I

can sen you some info if your interested. This has really helped

to learn to take all the supplements with no trouble. He does great for

a kid who isn't yet 5.

Meyer

On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:22:16 -0600 stephanie nickolson <snickol@...>

writes:

> Does anyone have any good suggestions for getting all of the

> supplements

> in their kids? The only way I can get my son to take them is in

> juice or

> lemonade and it makes him so hyper from all of the sugar! I was

> giving

> The DMSA and other supplements inside peanut butter but he saw me

> putting

> it in and now he refuses to eat it. Any ideas would be appreciated.

>

> ________________________________________________________________

> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:

> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

>

> -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gaia,

Try dgl in capsules--not as nasty to chew and not as smelly to carry around. There's also some with calcium carbonate that aren't as odorous.

Melinda

[Guest guest]

Nothing new under the sun.

The enlightenment science that is given to us from Buddha, Laotze, Zen, etc. is

stating the same thing as Quatum physics is stating: There is no Time and Space,

all is One. The American Indian spriritual leaders say: 'We are Light held

together by Light.'

So everything is interdependend to say at least.

Another thing, the best way to study morphic fields is to use your own body,

mind and spirit as a receiving tool. That means you will have to tune and become

as senstive as possible. That is exactly what enlightened human beings have been

trying to pass on to us down the ages. The techniques for that are Meditation.

You can even open up certain organs for receiving and sending transmission. For

example the heart is a miracoulous organ that can be energized to its full

capacity through heart meditations. Sufi's are very trained in these

techniques. Krishna gave the world 112 techniques. It is said that they consist

of all techniques possible for a human being.

So we are just rediscovering what has been pushed asside by the wave of

technology and logical thinking that came from Aristotoles. He stated there is

just 'Yes " and 'No' nothing in between. The eastern religious science is saying.

There is a third possibility, call it 'Po " . Po is exactly in the middle, no yes

and no No. There in the middle, where nothing moves, if you can remain there,

you will find the door of Oneness, your body and your senses will become so

sensitive that you will become consious of the unlimited amounts of morphic

fields

that exist.

Mike E Cornwall wrote:

> This is a long one dealing with morphic fields. If we can really improve

> our health using the " GeoTrans " approach, which is, apparently the

> manipulation of our morphic fields to our benefit, then I guess it is

> appropriate. Sheldrake coined the term " morphic fields " in the early

> eighties. Apparently, GeoTrans, et al, is taking it further. Has anyone

> determined that GeoTrans is legit?

>

> Corny

>

> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> Rupert Sheldrake: A Theosophical Appraisal

>

> By Pratt

>

> Part 1: Morphic Fields and the Memory of Nature

>

> Most biologists take it for granted that living organisms are

> nothing but complex machines, governed only by the known laws of

> physics and chemistry. I myself used to share this point of view.

> But over a period of several years I came to see that such an

> assumption is difficult to justify. For when so little is

> actually understood, there is an open possibility that at least

> some of the phenomena of life depend on laws or factors as yet

> unrecognized by the physical sciences.

>

> With these words biologist Rupert Sheldrake introduced his first book, A

> New Science of Life: The Hypothesis of Formative Causation, published in

> 1981. It met with a mixed response: while welcomed as " challenging and

> stimulating " by some, the journal Nature dismissed it as an " infuriating

> tract . . . the best candidate for burning there has been for many

> years. "

> Sheldrake developed his ideas further in The Presence of the Past.

> Morphic

> Resonance and the Habits of Nature (1988) and The Rebirth of Nature: The

> Greening of Science and God (1991).

>

> His basic argument is that natural systems, or morphic units, at all

> levels

> of complexity -- atoms, molecules, crystals, cells, tissues, organs,

> organisms, and societies of organisms -- are animated, organized, and

> coordinated by morphic fields, which contain an inherent memory. Natural

> systems inherit this collective memory from all previous things of their

> kind by a process called morphic resonance, with the result that patterns

> of development and behavior become increasingly habitual through

> repetition. Sheldrake suggests that there is a continuous spectrum of

> morphic fields, including morphogenetic fields, behavioral fields, mental

> fields, and social and cultural fields.

>

> Morphogenesis -- literally, the " coming into being " (genesis) of " form "

> (morphe) -- is something of a mystery. How do complex living organisms

> arise from much simpler structures such as seeds or eggs? How does an

> acorn

> manage to grow into an oak tree, or a fertilized human egg into an adult

> human being? A striking characteristic of living organisms is the

> capacity

> to regenerate, ranging from the healing of wounds to the replacement of

> lost limbs or tails. Organisms are clearly more than just complex

> machines:

> no machine has ever been known to grow spontaneously from a machine egg

> or

> to regenerate after damage! Unlike machines, organisms are more than the

> sum of their parts; there is something within them that is holistic and

> purposive, directing their development toward certain goals.

>

> Although modern mechanistic biology grew up in opposition to vitalism --

> the doctrine that living organisms are organized by nonmaterial vital

> factors -- it has introduced purposive organizing principles of its own,

> in

> the form of genetic programs. Genetic programs are sometimes likened to

> computer programs but, whereas computer programs are designed by

> intelligent beings, genetic programs are supposed to have been thrown

> together by chance! In recent years a number of leading developmental

> biologists have suggested that the misleading concept of genetic programs

> be abandoned in favor of terms such as internal representation or

> internal

> description. Exactly what these representations and descriptions are

> supposed to be has still to be explained.

>

> The role of genes is vastly overrated by mechanistic biologists. The

> genetic code in the DNA molecules determines the sequence of amino acids

> in

> proteins; it does not specify the way the proteins are arranged in cells,

> cells in tissues, tissues in organs, and organs in organisms. As

> Sheldrake

> remarks:

>

> Given the right genes and hence the right proteins, and the right

> systems by which protein synthesis is controlled, the organism is

> somehow supposed to assemble itself automatically. This is rather

> like delivering the right materials to a building site at the

> right times and expecting a house to grow spontaneously. -- The

> Rebirth of Nature, p. 107

>

> The fact that all the cells of an organism have the same genetic code yet

> somehow behave differently and form tissues and organs of different

> structures clearly indicates that some formative influence other than DNA

> must be shaping the developing organs and limbs. Developmental biologists

> acknowledge this, but their mechanistic explanations peter out into vague

> statements about " complex spatio-temporal patterns of physico-chemical

> interaction not yet fully understood. "

>

> According to Sheldrake, the development and maintenance of the bodies of

> organisms are guided by morphogenetic fields. The concept of

> morphogenetic

> fields has been widely adopted in developmental biology, but the nature

> of

> these fields has remained obscure, and they are often conceived of in

> conventional physical and chemical terms. According to Sheldrake, they

> are

> a new kind of field so far unknown to physics. They are localized within

> and around the systems they organize, and contain a kind of collective

> memory on which each member of the species draws and to which it in turn

> contributes. The fields themselves therefore evolve.

>

> Each morphic unit has its own characteristic morphogenetic field, nested

> in

> that of a higher-level morphic unit which helps to coordinate the

> arrangement of its parts. For example, the fields of cells contain those

> of

> molecules, which contain those of atoms, etc. The inherent memory of

> these

> fields explains, for example, why newly synthesized chemical compounds

> crystallize more readily all over the world the more often they are made.

>

> Before considering other types of morphic fields, it is worth examining

> exactly what a morphic field is supposed to be. Sheldrake describes them

> as

> " fields of information, " saying that they are neither a type of matter

> nor

> of energy and are detectable only by their effects on material systems.

> However, if morphic fields were completely nonmaterial, that would imply

> that they were pure nothingness, and it is hard to see how fields of

> nothingness could possibly have any effect on the material world!

> (Sheldrake's " formative causation " refers to his hypothesis of the

> causation of form by morphic fields to distinguish it from " energetic

> causation, " the kind of causation brought about by known physical fields

> such as gravity and electromagnetism. Formative causation is said to

> impose

> a spatial order on changes brought about by energetic causation.) In a

> discussion with Bohm, Sheldrake does in fact concede that morphic

> fields may have a subtle energy, but not in any " normal " (physical) sense

> of the term, since morphic fields can propagate across space and time and

> do not fade out noticeably over distance (A New Science of Life, p. 245).

> In this sense morphic fields would be a subtler form of energy-substance,

> too ethereal to be detectable by scientific instruments. Sheldrake also

> suggests that morphic fields may be very closely connected with quantum

> matter fields (The Presence of the Past, p. 120). According to science,

> the

> universal quantum field forms the substratum of the physical world and is

> pulsating with energy and vitality; it amounts to the resurrection of the

> concept of an ether, a medium of subtle matter pervading all of space.

>

> Instinctive behavior, learning, and memory also defy explanation in

> mechanistic terms. As Sheldrake remarks, " An enormous gulf of ignorance

> lies between all these phenomena and the established facts of molecular

> biology, biochemistry, genetics and neurophysiology " (A New Science of

> Life, p. 27). How could purposive instinctive behavior such as the

> building

> of webs by spiders or the migrations of swallows ever be explained in

> terms

> of DNA and protein synthesis?

>

> According to Sheldrake, habitual and instinctive behavior is organized by

> behavioral fields, while mental activity, conscious and unconscious,

> takes

> place within and through mental fields. Instincts are the behavioral

> habits

> of the species and depend on the inheritance of behavioral fields, and

> with

> them a collective memory, from previous members of the species by morphic

> resonance. The building up of an animal's own habits also depends on

> morphic resonance. It is possible for habits acquired by some animals to

> facilitate the acquisition of the same habits by other similar animals,

> even in the absence of any known means of connection or communication.

> This

> explains how after rats have learned a new trick in one place, other rats

> elsewhere seem to be able to learn it more easily.

>

> Memory poses a thorny problem for materialists. Attempts to locate

> memory-traces within the brain have so far proved unsuccessful.

> Experiments

> have shown that memory is both everywhere and nowhere in particular.

> Sheldrake suggests that the reason for the recurrent failure to find

> memory-traces in brains is very simple: they do not exist there. He goes

> on: " A search inside your TV set for traces of the programs you watched

> last week would be doomed to failure for the same reason: The set tunes

> in

> to TV transmissions but does not store them " (The Rebirth of Nature, p.

> 116). It is true that damage to specific areas of the brain can impair

> memory in certain ways, but this does not prove that the relevant

> memories

> were stored in the damaged tissues. Likewise, damage to parts of a TV

> circuitry can lead to loss or distortion of the picture but this does not

> prove that the pictures were stored inside the damaged components.

>

> Sheldrake suggests that memories are associated with morphic fields and

> that remembering depends on morphic resonance with these fields. He says

> that individual memory is due to the fact that organisms resonate most

> strongly with their own past, but that organisms are also influenced by

> morphic resonance from others of their kind through a sort of pooled

> memory, similar to the concept of the collective unconscious put forward

> by

> Jung and other depth psychologists.

>

> According to Sheldrake, morphic resonance involves the transfer of

> information but not of energy. But it is difficult to see how the one can

> take place without the other, though the type of energy involved may well

> be supraphysical. In theosophical terms, the physical world is

> interpenetrated by a series of increasingly ethereal worlds or planes,

> composed of energy-substances beyond our range of perception, sometimes

> called the akasa. Its lower levels are referred to as the astral light.

> An

> impression of every thought, deed, and event is imprinted on the akasa,

> which therefore forms a sort of memory of nature. Likewise, within and

> around the physical body there is a series of subtler " bodies " composed

> of

> these more ethereal states of matter.

>

> Memories, then, are impressed on the etheric substance of supraphysical

> planes, and we gain access to these records by vibrational synchrony,

> these

> vibrations being transmitted through the astral light. Sheldrake,

> however,

> rejects the idea of morphic resonance being transmitted through a

> " morphogenetic aether, " saying that " a more satisfactory approach may be

> to

> think of the past as pressed up, as it were, against the present, and as

> potentially present everywhere " (The Presence of the Past, p. 112). But

> it

> is hard to see why such a hazy notion is more satisfactory than that of

> nonphysical energies being transmitted through an etheric medium.

>

> Social organization is also impossible to understand in reductionist and

> mechanistic terms. Societies of termites, ants, wasps, and bees can

> contain

> thousands or even millions of individual insects. They can build large

> elaborate nests, exhibit a complex division of labor, and reproduce

> themselves. Such societies have often been compared to organisms at a

> higher level of organization, or superorganisms. Studies have shown that

> termites, for example, can speedily repair damage to their mounds,

> rebuilding tunnels and arches, working from both sides of the breach that

> has been made, and meeting up perfectly in the middle, even though the

> insects are blind.

>

> Sheldrake suggests that such colonies are organized by social fields,

> embracing all the individuals within them. This would also help to

> explain

> the behavior of shoals of fish, flocks of birds, and herds or packs of

> animals, whose coordination has so far also defied explanation. Social

> morphic fields can be thought of as coordinating all patterns of social

> behavior, including human societies. This would throw light on such

> things

> as crowd behavior, panics, fashions, crazes, and cults. Social fields are

> closely allied with cultural fields, which govern the inheritance and

> transmission of cultural traditions.

>

> Sheldrake's hypothesis of morphic fields and morphic resonance is of

> course

> anathema to mechanistic biologists. It also goes further than many forms

> of

> systems theory, whose advocates recognize the holistic properties of

> living

> organisms and the need for some sort of organizing principles, but

> generally avoid proposing that there are new kinds of causal entities in

> nature, such as fields unknown to physics. Instead they use vague terms

> such as complex self-organizing systems, self-regulatory properties,

> emergent organizing principles, and self-organizing patterns of

> information

> -- expressions which are descriptive but have little explanatory power.

>

> According to Sheldrake, then, human beings consist of a physical body,

> whose shape and structure are organized by a hierarchy of morphogenetic

> fields, one for every atom, molecule, cell, and organ up to the body as a

> whole. Our habitual activities are organized by behavioral fields, one

> for

> each pattern of behavior, and our mental activity by mental fields, one

> for

> each thought or idea. Sheldrake also suggests that our conscious self may

> be regarded either as the subjective aspect of the morphic fields that

> organize the brain, or as a higher level of our being which interacts

> with

> the lower fields and serves as the creative ground through which new

> fields

> arise (Presence of the Past, p. 213).

>

> This is reminiscent of the theosophical idea that humans are composed of

> several interpenetrating and interacting bodies, souls or vehicles of

> consciousness, which consist of energies and substances of different

> grades, and live and function on the inner planes. The lowest body, and

> the

> only one normally visible to us, is the physical body. It is built up

> around an astral model body. Every living entity has a model body, which

> is

> relatively permanent and therefore explains how physical shapes preserve

> their identities and characteristic forms despite the constant turnover

> of

> their physical constituents.

>

> As we move up the ladder of life from the mineral kingdom through the

> plant

> and animal kingdoms to the human kingdom, the degree of individualization

> increases, as the higher vehicles become more able to express themselves

> through the more sophisticated physical forms. The process appears to

> have

> reached its climax thus far in the human kingdom where a self-conscious

> mind develops, giving us a greater degree of free will. Working through

> the

> human physical and model bodies are two closely related vehicles of

> consciousness composed of still finer substances, which may be called the

> animal soul and the lower human soul. These four lower bodies are

> associated with the human personality -- with the desires, emotions,

> thoughts, and habits of the lower mind. After death they disintegrate

> into

> their constituent physical or astral atoms at different rates on their

> different planes. There are also three higher souls, composed of more

> refined akasic substances: the higher human soul or reincarnating ego,

> the

> spiritual soul, and the divine soul. These higher vehicles are the source

> of our nobler feelings, aspirations, and intuitions, and endure for a

> time

> period immeasurably longer than do the lower vehicles.

>

> After death, the reincarnating ego is said to enter a dreamlike state of

> rest until the time comes for it to return to earth. As it reawakens and

> redescends towards the material realms, it draws back to itself the same

> life-atoms which had formerly composed its lower vehicles and which

> therefore bear the karmic impress of previous lives. Life after life we

> therefore build habits of thought, feeling, and behavior into the

> different

> levels of our constitution. The formation of habits can be understood in

> terms of nature's fundamental tendency to follow the line of least

> resistance and to repeat itself. The vital and electric impulses and

> energies moving within and between the different levels of our

> constitution

> are more likely to repeat past pathways and vibrational forms, associated

> with particular patterns of thought and behavior, than they are to follow

> or assume new ones -- unless forced to do so by our will.

>

> According to Sheldrake we are also influenced by social and cultural

> fields

> contained within the overall field of the earth. In theosophy we are said

> to contribute thoughts and ideas to the pooled memory of the astral light

> and attract from it those ideas and thoughts with which we resonate most

> strongly. The astral light may be considered to be the astral body of the

> earth, and plays a role similar to what Sheldrake calls the morphic field

> of Gaia.

>

> Sheldrake admits that his terminology of morphic fields could be replaced

> by occult terms such as akasa and subtle bodies (The Presence of the

> Past,

> p. 307). However, occult philosophy goes much further than anything

> Sheldrake would care to admit to, especially as regards such teachings as

> reimbodiment. Instead of a physical world organized by a nebulous

> nonmaterial realm of fields, theosophy proposes the existence of bodies

> within bodies and worlds within worlds, comprising a whole spectrum of

> energy-substances, the higher helping to animate and coordinate the

> lower.

> These ideas account for the regularity and harmony of nature, the powers

> of

> mind and consciousness, and paranormal phenomena.

>

> Whatever the limitations of his ideas, however, Sheldrake has dealt a

> significant blow to materialistic science with his forceful arguments

> exposing the inadequacy of physical factors alone to account for the

> phenomena of life, mind, and evolution, and in support of the idea that

> memory is intrinsic in nature.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Part 2: Creativity and the Habits of Nature

>

> The operations of nature are characterized by order and harmony. For

> instance, the planets move in regular orbits around the sun; water always

> boils at 100°C at sea level; apple seeds always grow into apple trees

> rather than some other kind of tree; and electrons always carry the same

> electric charge. In a world where regularity and order did not prevail,

> everything would be completely unpredictable and life as we know it could

> not exist.

>

> These regularities are generally attributed to laws of nature, which are

> considered to be eternal and transcendent, and to have existed in some

> sense before the birth of the physical universe. According to Christian

> theology, these laws were designed by God and exist in His mind. Although

> materialist science rejects the idea of God, it still accepts the

> existence

> of immutable laws. How these laws can exist independent of the evolving

> universe and at the same time act upon it is something of a mystery. As

> Rupert Sheldrake says:

>

> They govern matter and motion, but they are not themselves

> material nor do they move.... Indeed, even in the absence of God,

> they still share many of his traditional attributes. They are

> omnipresent, immutable, universal, and self-subsistent. Nothing

> can be hidden from them, nor lie beyond their power. -- The

> Presence of the Past, p. 12

>

> A variation on the theme of nonmaterial laws is that rather than being

> eternal, new laws come into being as nature evolves and thereafter apply

> universally. In other words, the creation of the first atom, sun,

> crystal,

> protein, etc., involved the spontaneous appearance of the relevant laws

> and

> rules.

>

> A very different point of view is that the regularities of nature are

> more

> like universal habits which have grown up within the evolving universe

> and

> that a kind of memory is inherent in nature. According to Sheldrake's

> hypothesis of formative causation, the physical world is organized and

> coordinated by morphic fields, which contain a built-in memory, and past

> patterns of activity influence those in the present by morphic resonance.

>

> Sheldrake states that morphic fields are neither a form of matter nor of

> energy. But it is strange that he rejects the idea that nonmaterial laws

> could act upon the material world, but then proposes that nonmaterial

> morphic fields in some way can. If morphic fields are anything, they must

> surely be a nonphysical, more ethereal form of energy-substance, a

> possibility which Sheldrake does not altogether rule out.

>

> >From a theosophical viewpoint, nonmaterial, free-floating laws, beyond

> time

> and space, matter and energy, could not have any influence on the

> physical

> world, the laws of nature being habits, but the habits of living

> entities.

> As G. de Purucker says: " This word law is simply an abstraction, an

> expression for the action of entities in nature " (G. de Purucker,

> Fundamentals of the Esoteric Philosophy, p. 173). Within and behind the

> material world there are worlds or planes composed of finer grades of

> matter, all inhabited by appropriate entities at varying stages of

> evolutionary development. The higher entities collectively make up the

> " mind " of nature, which works through elemental nature forces.

>

> Strictly speaking, there are no mechanically acting laws of nature, for

> there are no lawgivers. The spiritual entities on higher planes do not

> govern the lower worlds -- this is a relic of the theological idea of

> divine intervention. Just as bodily processes such as digestion, the

> beating of the heart, respiration, and growth are normally regulated by

> our

> automatic will, so the physical world is the body of higher worlds and

> the

> regularities of nature are the instinctual effects on this plane of the

> wills and energies of the entities dwelling on inner planes.

>

> Sheldrake writes:

>

> The habits of most kinds of physical, chemical, and biological

> systems have been established for millions, even billions of

> years. Hence most of the systems that physicists, chemists, and

> biologists study are running in such deep grooves of habit that

> they are effectively changeless. The systems behave as if they

> were governed by eternal laws because the habits are so well

> established. -- The Rebirth of Nature, pp. 128-9

>

> This could also apply to the effectively invariable mathematical

> principles

> governing the structure of the hierarchies of worlds and planes, visible

> and invisible, composing universal nature. Ten, for instance, was

> regarded

> as the " perfect number " underlying the structure of the universe by many

> ancient philosophers, including Pythagoras. A hierarchy of worlds may be

> said to consist of ten planes or spheres, each divisible into ten

> subplanes. All these planes interpenetrate, but because they are composed

> of energy-substances vibrating at different rates, only the lowest,

> physical plane can be perceived by our physical senses.

>

> How have galaxies, stars, planets, and the incredible diversity of

> life-forms that we find on earth managed to evolve? Sheldrake suggests

> three different ways of viewing the creativity of nature. It could be

> ascribed (a) to blind and purposeless chance, ( to a creative agency

> pervading and transcending nature, or © to a creative impetus immanent

> in

> nature. He says that a decision between these alternatives can be made

> only

> on metaphysical grounds and on the basis of intuition.

>

> >From a theosophical viewpoint, the first hypothesis is unacceptable since

> chance does not play any role in nature; chance is merely a word that

> conceals our ignorance. As physicist D. Bohm and science writer F. D.

> Peat

> remark: " What is randomness in one context may reveal itself as simple

> orders of necessity in another broader context. " (Science, Order &

> Creativity, p. 133.)

>

> According to the second hypothesis, creativity descends into the physical

> world of space and time from a higher, transcendent level that is

> mindlike.

> While theosophy accepts that there are superior, causal, mindlike planes

> behind the physical world, it questions Sheldrake's assumption that such

> realms would have to be completely changeless and " beyond time

> altogether "

> (The Rebirth of Nature, p. 194). All the planes interact and evolve,

> though

> the higher planes are relatively more enduring than the lower.

>

> The third hypothesis states that creativity

>

> depends on chance, conflict, and necessity, . . . It is rooted in

> the ongoing processes of nature. But at the same time it occurs

> within the framework of higher systems of order. For example, new

> species arise within ecosystems; new ecosystems within Gaia; Gaia

> within the solar system; the solar system within the galaxy; the

> galaxy within the growing cosmos. -- The Rebirth of Nature, p.

> 194

>

> Again, while blind chance has no part to play in the theosophic scheme,

> creativity is rooted in the processes of nature, and is closely

> associated

> with " higher systems of order, " which would include higher planes and

> subplanes. In fact, the creative agency -- or rather agencies -- referred

> to in hypothesis ( dwell in these higher spheres and are the source of

> the creative impetus referred to in hypothesis ©.

>

> Sheldrake does not recognize the existence of superior, causal worlds,

> though he does recognize the existence of a nonmaterial realm of morphic

> fields of various types. But what exactly is the relationship between

> this

> realm and the physical world? A new morphic field is said to come into

> being with the first appearance of a new system, whether it be a

> molecule,

> galaxy, crystal, or plant. These new patterns of organization arise

> through

> a spontaneous, creative jump and thereafter guide the development of

> subsequent similar systems and become increasingly habitual through

> repetition. However,

>

> at every level of organization, new morphic fields may arise

> within and from higher-level fields. Creativity occurs not just

> upward from the bottom, with new forms arising from less complex

> systems by spontaneous jumps; it also proceeds downward from the

> top, through the creative activity of higher-level fields. -- The

> Rebirth of Nature, p. 195

>

> Sheldrake suggests that all morphic fields may ultimately be derived from

> the primal field of the universe, and considers the possibility that this

> universal field could be connected with previous universes.

>

> Fields play a fundamental role in modern science: matter is said to

> consist

> of energy organized by fields. " Fields, " says Sheldrake, " have replaced

> souls as invisible organizing principles " (The Rebirth of Nature, p. 83).

> He even goes so far as to liken the universal field of gravity to the

> Neoplatonic conception of the world soul. Although clearly an

> exaggeration,

> since the world soul is something far higher and more spiritual than the

> fields known to physics, the behavioral and mental morphic fields

> postulated by Sheldrake may be regarded as higher-level fields and bear

> some resemblance to what in theosophic thought are called the animal soul

> and human soul. Virtually all religious and mystical traditions teach

> that

> our physical body is merely the lowest level of our constitution, and

> that

> there is a higher part of us that survives physical death. Although

> Sheldrake does not explicitly consider the possibility of survival and

> reincarnation, there is nothing in his theory that rules them out.

>

> Interestingly, he argues that morphic fields never completely vanish when

> the species or entity they organize dies:

>

> When any particular organized system ceases to exist, as when an

> atom splits, a snowflake melts, an animal dies, its organizing

> field disappears from that place. But in another sense, morphic

> fields do not disappear: they are potential organizing patterns

> of influence, and can appear again physically in other times and

> places, wherever and whenever the physical conditions are

> appropriate. When they do so they contain within themselves a

> memory of their previous physical existences. -- The Presence of

> the Past, pp. xviii-xix

>

> This would explain how the characteristics of ancestral species, even

> those

> extinct for millions of years, can suddenly reappear, a phenomenon known

> as

> reversion, atavism, or throwing back. There are also many examples from

> the

> fossil record that suggest that particular evolutionary pathways are

> repeated: organisms with features almost identical to previous species

> appear again and again. Taking this idea a step further, is it not

> conceivable that the same individualized higher-level " fields " could

> manifest repeatedly in physical form and provide a thread of continuity

> between one life or embodiment and the next?

>

> Theosophy proposes that all entities -- atoms, animals, humans, planets,

> suns, and universes -- reimbody, i.e., pass through cyclic periods of

> activity and rest, manifestation and dissolution. They are all informed

> by

> spiritual monads which use the different forms offered by the various

> kingdoms of nature to gain evolutionary experience. Evolution is without

> conceivable beginning and without conceivable end. Everything exists

> because it has existed before, and no development or achievement is ever

> lost but remains imprinted on the astral light or akasa, which acts as a

> sort of memory of nature. As H. P. Blavatsky puts it: " the spiritual

> prototypes of all things exist in the immaterial world before those

> things

> become materialised on Earth. "

>

> Everything that is, was, and will be, eternally is, even the

> countless forms, which are finite and perishable only in their

> objective, not in their ideal Form. They existed as Ideas, in the

> Eternity, and, when they pass away, will exist as reflections.

> Neither the form of man, nor that of any animal, plant or stone

> has ever been created, and it is only on this plane of ours that

> it commenced " becoming, " i.e., objectivising into its present

> materiality, or expanding from within outwards, from the most

> sublimated and supersensuous essence into its grossest

> appearance. Therefore our human forms have existed in the

> Eternity as astral or ethereal prototypes; . . . -- The Secret

> Doctrine 1:58, 282

>

> In other words, when the cycle of evolution on a particular planet comes

> to

> an end, all evolutionary forms and pathways remain imprinted as

> " reflections " on the higher planes. When the next period of activity

> dawns,

> these memories or seeds of life will be reawakened and reactivated, and

> provide the prototypes and blueprint for the new cycle of evolution. All

> things are therefore constantly building on the achievements of the past;

> we follow in the footsteps of what has gone before.

>

> There was never a time when nothing was. Our Occidental brain-minds tend

> to

> find this idea rather daunting and prefer to impose at least an absolute

> beginning before which nothing existed and at which moment the universe

> came into being out of nothing. But the idea of something being created

> out

> of literal nothingness is an illogical fantasy: " the Occult teaching

> says,

> 'Nothing is created, but is only transformed. Nothing can manifest itself

> in this universe -- from a globe down to a vague, rapid thought -- that

> was

> not in the universe already; . . .' " (The Secret Doctrine 1:570).

> However,

> the existence of evolutionary plans and prototypes by no means implies

> that

> everything is rigidly predetermined, for although the higher levels of

> reality help to coordinate the lower, the lower levels retain a degree of

> autonomy and creative freedom, and the plan itself is modified by each

> cycle of evolution.

>

> On the subject of God, Sheldrake writes:

>

> a view of nature without God must include a creative unitary

> principle that includes the entire cosmos and unites the

> polarities and dualities found throughout the natural realm. But

> this is not far removed from views of nature with God. -- The

> Rebirth of Nature, p. 196

>

> He points out that instead of the theistic notion that God is remote and

> separate from nature, God could also be considered as immanent in nature,

> and yet at the same time as the unity that transcends nature. He quotes

> fifteenth-century mystic of Cusa: " Divinity is the enfolding and

> unfolding of everything that is. Divinity is in all things in such a way

> that all things are in divinity " (quoted ibid., 198). St. put

> forward

> a similar pantheistic idea, saying that Deity is that in which " we live,

> and move, and have our being " (Acts 17:28).

>

> Certainly the divine cannot be anything less than our grandest

> conception,

> and must therefore be infinitude itself. But if divinity is infinite, it

> cannot be outside nature, for otherwise there would be no room left for

> the

> universe! Divinity is the universe -- not just the physical universe but

> all the endless hierarchies of worlds and planes which infill and in fact

> compose the boundless All. Divinity, then, is immanent, omnipresent, and

> the root of all things. Since it is greater than any of its individual

> expressions, it may also be regarded as transcendent. This pantheism

> recognizes a universal life infilling and inspiriting everything without

> exception, containing everything, contained in all. Sheldrake calls this

> panentheism, since he defines pantheism as the view that divinity is

> immanent in all things, but not transcendent. But this is a rather

> arbitrary definition.

>

> Infinitude is composed of an infinite number of world systems, and within

> any particular hierarchy of worlds all the entities that have passed

> beyond

> the human stage may be termed spiritual beings or gods, meaning beings

> who

> are relatively perfected in relation to ourselves. And the aggregate of

> the

> most advanced beings in any system of worlds may be regarded as divinity

> for that hierarchy. But this is not God in the traditional sense, for

> there

> is no god so high that there is none higher.

>

> Everything in our hierarchy of worlds derives from the same divine source

> and is destined in the fullness of time to return to it, to rest for

> untold

> aeons before issuing forth again on an evolutionary pilgrimage as part of

> even higher worlds. Evolution is a fundamental habit of nature and

> proceeds

> in cyclic periods of activity and rest, in a never-ending, ever-ascending

> spiral of progress in which there are always new and vaster fields of

> experience in which to become self-conscious masters of life.

>

> (Reprinted from Sunrise magazine, June/July and

> August/September

> 1992. Copyright © 1992 by Theosophical University Press)

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Science Menu

>

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[Guest guest]

beautifully stated!

> So we are just rediscovering what has been pushed asside by the wave of

> technology and logical thinking that came from Aristotoles. He stated there

> is just 'Yes " and 'No' nothing in between. The eastern religious science is

> saying. There is a third possibility, call it 'Po " . Po is exactly in the

> middle, no yes and no No. There in the middle, where nothing moves, if you

> can remain there, you will find the door of Oneness, your body and your

> senses will become so sensitive that you will become consious of the

> unlimited amounts of morphic fields

> that exist.

=^ )

w/peace

wes bennett

wesbenn@...

<A HREF= " http://www.ascent.net/wesbenn/welcome.htm " >wes bennett photography /

digital imaging</A>

[Guest guest]

Dear Harriett,

That is really a bummer. I'm really sorry to hear

about this. I am a non-responder, but I felt better

too for quite a while after I stopped treatment (I was

on for 53 weeks.) In almost all cases of relapses the

problem is in the sensitivity of the test to detect

the virus. There is no test that will detect down to

0. The very best test available now, which is not

usually used, is a qualitative test that detects down

to <5. In most tests you are considered negative or

undetectable if it is <100, or <200, or <1000. Or

<2000! The sensitivity of the test used to determine

response is really important, but to save money the

best tests are often not used. And if this particular

virus isn't eliminated completely then as soon as

treatment is stopped it will almost always immediately

begin to reproduce rapidly. Another reason given is

that while a person may test negative in blood serum,

there may be residual amounts left in the liver, or

even some other location, that are not detectable in

serum. In other words, you never were completely free

of the virus, you just had levels too low to be

detected by whatever test your doctor ordered. There

have been studies that went back and retested blood

samples of responders, non-responders, and relapsers,

with extremely sensitive tests and the results showed

that in all the cases of responders there was no

detectable virus, but in relapsers who had previously

been said to be undetectable the new, more sensitive

test showed that there was still virus there. I just

read a study on this within the past couple of days.

If I can refind it I'll post it.

I will be very interested to know how your biopsy

comes out. Let us know. Have you even had time yet to

think about 'what next'? I was leaning towards giving

the Roche brand of peg a try, with ribavirin, but

after seeing results of Infergen I am considering

that. It seems to have very good results with

relapsers and non-responders.

Good luck,

Claudine

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dear Harriett,

That is really a bummer. I'm really sorry to hear

about this. I am a non-responder, but I felt better

too for quite a while after I stopped treatment (I was

on for 53 weeks.) In almost all cases of relapses the

problem is in the sensitivity of the test to detect

the virus. There is no test that will detect down to

0. The very best test available now, which is not

usually used, is a qualitative test that detects down

to <5. In most tests you are considered negative or

undetectable if it is <100, or <200, or <1000. Or

<2000! The sensitivity of the test used to determine

response is really important, but to save money the

best tests are often not used. And if this particular

virus isn't eliminated completely then as soon as

treatment is stopped it will almost always immediately

begin to reproduce rapidly. Another reason given is

that while a person may test negative in blood serum,

there may be residual amounts left in the liver, or

even some other location, that are not detectable in

serum. In other words, you never were completely free

of the virus, you just had levels too low to be

detected by whatever test your doctor ordered. There

have been studies that went back and retested blood

samples of responders, non-responders, and relapsers,

with extremely sensitive tests and the results showed

that in all the cases of responders there was no

detectable virus, but in relapsers who had previously

been said to be undetectable the new, more sensitive

test showed that there was still virus there. I just

read a study on this within the past couple of days.

If I can refind it I'll post it.

I will be very interested to know how your biopsy

comes out. Let us know. Have you even had time yet to

think about 'what next'? I was leaning towards giving

the Roche brand of peg a try, with ribavirin, but

after seeing results of Infergen I am considering

that. It seems to have very good results with

relapsers and non-responders.

Good luck,

Claudine

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

good luck Harriett!

alley

[Guest guest]

good luck Harriett!

alley

[Guest guest]

,

I'm no doctor but I don't know why chelating would have to wait while

you tackle dysbiosis. I don't know if dysbiosis can ever be eliminated as

long as a child is heavy metal toxic. My daughter's Great Smokies stool

analysis also indicated no Candida; so I took her off the Nystatin and it

came back big time. The test also indicated dysbiosis. She's been

chelating with DMSA for 3 months now with nothing but improvement; greater

strength and balance, improved facial colouring, improved interactiveness

and connectedness, more verbalizing (though not back to speaking with words,

yet - it's been nearly 6 years since her last word).

Did your doctor say you have to hold off chelating? Sorry, I have not

used Primal Defense; can't help you with that one.

p.s. Happy Holidays!

[ ] (unknown)

> We just got lab results from Great Smokies back (stool analysis) and

> found out Evan has severe bacteria, (4+) so we have to hold off on

> chelating until the problem clears up. We just started him on " Primal

> Defense " (soil based organisms) to help get rid of it. Does anyone know

> if chelation exacerbates bacteria as well as yeast? Yeast came back

> negative. Also, does anyone have experience using P.D. on their kids?

>

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