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I would like to know where I can find peer-reveiwed science dealing with

Dr. Goldberg's theories. If there is peer review

information available I would like to know where it is published.

Donnaaron wrote:

>Hi,

>

>Dr. Goldberg is adamant about not giving your child any suppliments or other

therapies not on the protocol, the reasoning being that they are not backed

up by peer-reveiwed science and can interfere or have adverse interactions with

the meds he prescribes. He also says that megadosing of suppliments are

stressful to the immune system and what we are trying to do with the

regimen is *calm* it.

>

>You don't say how old your child is, but three months is a very, very short

time. Some children take longer to respond, especially if they are over five

years old, but even younger ones can be tricky. Sometimes it's a matter of

finding the right medications to use, and the right dosages, which is a gradual

process. Also, with some children there are no dramatic " breakthroughs " , but

steady, gradual improvement.

>

>Donna

> (unknown)

>

> Our son is on Paxil (0.25) for over a month and

> antiviral/antifungals for the last 3 months. No breakthroughs yet.

> We wanted to know if we can also pursue other protocols (FGF,

> TTFD+glutathione+B12, amino supplementation) while following Dr G 's

> protocol (antifungal,antiviral, SSRI). Since other children are

> showing clinical benefits with other protocols, it is tempting not

> to ignore other therapies. Any thoughts will be appreciated.

>

> AJ

>________________________________

>````````````````````````````````

>Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

>the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

>opinion of the Research Institute.

>``````````````````````````````````````

>

>

>

>

>Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

>the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

>opinion of the Research Institute.

>

>

>

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Go to www.nids.net where I believe there is a long listing of peer-reviewed

articles that apply to the hypothesis.

Re: (unknown)

I would like to know where I can find peer-reveiwed science dealing with

Dr. Goldberg's theories. If there is peer review

information available I would like to know where it is published.

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

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I went to the site and I do not find a long list in fact I only

found articles that discuss some of the things

Dr. Goldberg thinks are to his liking but no articles published by

Dr. Goldberg much less no peer review of any of his work.

Any more suggestions?

Donnaaron wrote:

Go to www.nids.net where I believe there is a long listing of

peer-reviewed articles that apply to the hypothesis.

Re: (unknown)

I would like to know where I can find peer-reveiwed science dealing

with Dr. Goldberg's theories. If there is peer review information available I

would like to know where it is published.

______________________________

``````````````````````````````

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

``````````````````````````````

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There is no one suppliment that I know that will heal your lung.

Although, I am sure that there are things that will help.

Perhaps it is interesting and helpful to know that in Chinese Medicine the

emotion of the lungs is sadness............and dealing with ones sadness helps

heal the lungs.

Mark

http://200.165.133.53/sircus/

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There is no one suppliment that I know that will heal your lung.

Although, I am sure that there are things that will help.

Perhaps it is interesting and helpful to know that in Chinese Medicine the

emotion of the lungs is sadness............and dealing with ones sadness helps

heal the lungs.

Mark

http://200.165.133.53/sircus/

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In a message dated 4/28/03 5:27:18 PM Central Daylight Time, yanglou@...

writes:

> There is also a reason for your body to be low on

> something, such as stove off a virus as Dr. G have told us on one

>

I'm curious to know which amino acid it is that could be low as your body's

defense against a virus? I have read quite a bit on B vitamins feeding yeast

and iron often promoting bacteria infestation.

Gaylen

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To and Virginia;

Regarding the lung cancer, Cliff Beckwith has told us of some very good

tesimonials on help for lung cancer with Dr.Budwig's regimen of flax oil and

cottage cheese.

(unknown)

> HI karen,

> The cottage cheese and flax seed oil was developed by Dr. Johanna

> Budwig. Two of her books are available in English. Amazon has them.

> They explain how it works. The combination of essential fatty acids

> in the oil with sulphur proteins in the cottage cheese provide

> exactly what the body needs to heal. I felt remarkably better the

> first week of eating it.

>

> There is no one suppliment that I know that will heal your lung.

> Although, I am sure that there are things that will help. Maybe you

> should consult with a naturopath. see

> http://www.centrehealing.com/home.html

>

> have you looked into parasite cleanses? Dr. Hulda 's book " The

> Cure for All Cancer " outlines a good one. Her instructions on

> getting chemicals out of your house are very good as well.

>

> Blessings, Virginia

>

>

>

> > I've been reading cures for cancer mail for quite some time and have

> accumulated some really good information. Thanks to all that have

> contributed.

> >

> > I myself have been fighting non-small cell lung cancer for 18

> months...have been through three kinds of chemo and radiation, only

> to have the tumor come back in full force and even mestastisize to

> my spine and one of my ribs. By this time, I had a lot of time to

> get online and get a lot of info on alternative treatments. When my

> doctor gave me a list of all the different chemos to choose from, I

> told him that I would have to think about the chemo again, but I

> really didn't think I would go through with it to " buy me some more

> time " . I was lucky enough to have a doctor to refer me to a

> clinical study for Irissa. It stopped the cancer from progressing

> in its tracks. My cancer has even started regressing. Yeah!

> >

> > My question is this...I have lost a lot of capacity in my lung.

> Is there any supplement that I can take to possibly heal my lung?

> >

> > Also, a very close friend of ours was just diagnosed with rectal

> cancer (the doctor thinks in very early stages). I would welcome

> any recommendations, references, etc. on this.

> >

> > I have one more question. I've seen the documentation on how well

> cottage cheese and flaxseed oil heal cancer. Can anyone explain in

> laymen's terms HOW it works?

> >

> >

> >

> >

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To and Virginia;

Regarding the lung cancer, Cliff Beckwith has told us of some very good

tesimonials on help for lung cancer with Dr.Budwig's regimen of flax oil and

cottage cheese.

(unknown)

> HI karen,

> The cottage cheese and flax seed oil was developed by Dr. Johanna

> Budwig. Two of her books are available in English. Amazon has them.

> They explain how it works. The combination of essential fatty acids

> in the oil with sulphur proteins in the cottage cheese provide

> exactly what the body needs to heal. I felt remarkably better the

> first week of eating it.

>

> There is no one suppliment that I know that will heal your lung.

> Although, I am sure that there are things that will help. Maybe you

> should consult with a naturopath. see

> http://www.centrehealing.com/home.html

>

> have you looked into parasite cleanses? Dr. Hulda 's book " The

> Cure for All Cancer " outlines a good one. Her instructions on

> getting chemicals out of your house are very good as well.

>

> Blessings, Virginia

>

>

>

> > I've been reading cures for cancer mail for quite some time and have

> accumulated some really good information. Thanks to all that have

> contributed.

> >

> > I myself have been fighting non-small cell lung cancer for 18

> months...have been through three kinds of chemo and radiation, only

> to have the tumor come back in full force and even mestastisize to

> my spine and one of my ribs. By this time, I had a lot of time to

> get online and get a lot of info on alternative treatments. When my

> doctor gave me a list of all the different chemos to choose from, I

> told him that I would have to think about the chemo again, but I

> really didn't think I would go through with it to " buy me some more

> time " . I was lucky enough to have a doctor to refer me to a

> clinical study for Irissa. It stopped the cancer from progressing

> in its tracks. My cancer has even started regressing. Yeah!

> >

> > My question is this...I have lost a lot of capacity in my lung.

> Is there any supplement that I can take to possibly heal my lung?

> >

> > Also, a very close friend of ours was just diagnosed with rectal

> cancer (the doctor thinks in very early stages). I would welcome

> any recommendations, references, etc. on this.

> >

> > I have one more question. I've seen the documentation on how well

> cottage cheese and flaxseed oil heal cancer. Can anyone explain in

> laymen's terms HOW it works?

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Gaylen,

I need to go back to the audiotape of the consultation If I did turn

the tape recorder on at the time. I am not good at memorize medical

terms.

When I get it out I will email it to you.

Jin

> In a message dated 4/28/03 5:27:18 PM Central Daylight Time,

yanglou@a...

> writes:

>

>

> > There is also a reason for your body to be low on

> > something, such as stove off a virus as Dr. G have told us on one

> >

>

> I'm curious to know which amino acid it is that could be low as

your body's

> defense against a virus? I have read quite a bit on B vitamins

feeding yeast

> and iron often promoting bacteria infestation.

> Gaylen

>

>

>

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,

Congratulations on beating the beast! Hope all works out for you and you

regain all your health!

Hanida

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Hi,

My husband did a search at library of Northwestern University this

weekend while was in a class, He did find this article:

http://www.jorsm.com/~binstock/chronic1.htm by Binstock, a

Researcher in Developmental and Behavioral Neuroanatomy. Her home web

site is http://www.jorsm.com/~binstock/.

I did not have time read them yet, so I have no opinion on it or her.

It is good to be skeptical; you need feel comfortable about the idea

first. But also remember that he has worked on this for 20 years, and

many parents(not all) has report good results (big or small). He is a

clinician with a lot of patients, he may not have a lot of papers,

but he is practice what he believe and many people believe he is very

good at it. Everybody here is trying to help each other. Please don't

get upset that you may not get exact info you asked at times.

Jin

>

> Go to www.nids.net where I believe there is a long listing of

> peer-reviewed articles that apply to the hypothesis.

>

> Re: (unknown)

>

> I would like to know where I can find peer-reveiwed science dealing

> with Dr. Goldberg's theories. If there is peer review

information available I would like to know where it is published.

>

> ______________________________

> ``````````````````````````````

> Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

> the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

> opinion of the Research Institute.

> ``````````````````````````````

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> I went to the site and I do not find a long list in fact I only

> found articles that discuss some of the things

> Dr. Goldberg thinks are to his liking but no articles published

by

> Dr. Goldberg much less no peer review of any of his work.

> Any more suggestions?

>

Hi Don,

I'm not sure what it is that you want, but below is the link to Dr.

Goldbergs publications and research that I've posted over the last several

months. There's about three or four years of research in the list

archives....

Hope that helps

Cheryl

Dr. Goldbergs pulications are available in the list files section

/files/

Dr Goldberg

A listing of publications by Dr Goldberg

http://f4.grp.fs.com/v1/QEqvPoW1dJbqlZRWp4F2hQwugBKWOUUyx_-DxI3ExeE26bwizuE\

S0ZY3-yoBnQ5MS_oDy9JRs19Q1pUU/Dr%20%20Goldberg

15909 abstracts- neuroimmune 1raptor @ cheryl1b 7:27 pm

15896 Immune system and the central nervous system 1raptor @

15746 DNA methylation 1raptor @ cheryl1b Sun 4/20/2003

15745 Virus Genes 1raptor @ cheryl1b Sun 4/20/2003

15530 neuropsychiatric diseases-immune, autoimmune, viral 1raptor @

15407 More research backing 1raptor @ cheryl1b Wed 3/26/2003

15114 Human herpesviruses 6 and 7 1raptor @ cheryl1b Wed 3/12/2003

15065 Brain, cytokines, autoimmunity 1raptor @ cheryl1b Sun 3/9/2003

14973 Current Neuroimmune Abstracts 1raptor @ cheryl1b Sun 3/2/2003

14957 CDC-gene expression and biomarker discovery in Chronic Fatigue Syndr

1raptor @ cheryl1b Sun 3/2/2003

14838 McGill Researcher First To Discover That Normal Nerve Cells Can Mimic

Viruses 1raptor @ cheryl1b Sat 2/22/2003

14773 Opioid peptides and dipeptidyl peptidase in autism 1raptor @

cheryl1b Tue 2/18/2003

14772 Immune system gene linked to sleepwalking 1raptor @ cheryl1b Tue

2/18/2003

14771 Enterovirus infections may initiate the autoimmune process 1raptor @

cheryl1b Tue 2/18/2003

14578 Immune Modulation 1raptor @ cheryl1b Sun 2/9/2003

14577 Methylation-Mediated Proviral Silencing Is Associated with MeCP2

14520 Serotonin, some antidepressants can fight fungus 1raptor @

14187 Abstracts on the brain and immune dysfunction- AKA 1raptor

14186 MORE 1raptor @ cheryl1b Sun 1/26/2003

14079 Scientists Discover How To Grow Cells That Suppress Immune Responses

1raptor @ cheryl1b Thu 1/23/2003

14013 metallothionein in inflammatory bowel disease. Correlation with HLA-

1raptor @ cheryl1b Tue 1/21/2003

14011 Sick Kids Researchers-Link Between Diabetes And Nervous System

Autoimmunity 1raptor @ cheryl1b Tue 1/21/2003

13945 Cytokine mediated regulation of iron transport in human monocytic ce

1raptor @ cheryl1b Sun 1/19/2003

13851 Maternal-Fetal Incompatibility,Rh, HLA, microchimerism 1raptor @

cheryl1b Thu 1/16/2003

13850 Viruses-herpes, etc. 1raptor @ cheryl1b Thu 1/16/2003

13798 OUR EMOTIONAL BRAINS 1raptor @ cheryl1b Mon 1/13/2003

13749 Mayo Clinic Research In Mice Finds New Role For Interleukin-6

1raptor @ cheryl1b Sun 1/12/2003

13651 Immunity and schizophrenia: autoimmunity, cytokines, and immune resp

1raptor @ cheryl1b Thu 1/9/2003

13650 Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis/ potential role of retroviral infectio

1raptor @ cheryl1b Thu 1/9/2003

13649 fibromyalgia-cerebral blood flow/cytokines and other related ab

1raptor @ cheryl1b Thu 1/9/2003

13579 MHC CLASS II HLA DRB1 DR4 susceptibility to autism, autoimmunity, in

1raptor @ cheryl1b Tue 1/7/2003

13022 Milk, wheat, IBS, etc.CYTOKINES 1raptor @ cheryl1b Thu12/2002

12964 Retrovirus, mycotoxins, immunosuppression and neurodegeneration

1raptor @ cheryl1b Tue 12/10/2002

12963 Study suggests autoimmune link to eating disorders 1raptor @

12954 Maternal antibody-mediated dyslexia?1raptor @ cheryl1b12/9/2002

12915 Abstracts- CNS and viruses, etc. 1raptor @ cheryl1b 12/7/2002

12911 abstracts- cytokines, chemokines, and neuroimmune 1raptor @ cheryl1b

Sat 12/7/2002

_________________________________________________________________

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, what exactly was the treatment the colon hydrotherapist put you on

while you were seeing him/her?

> From: " Riddle " <riddlen71@...>

> Reply-candidiasis

> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:25:59 -0500

> candidiasis

> Subject: (unknown)

>

>

>

>

> Hi, All.

>

> I haven't actively participated in about a month, so I don't know if this

> has been discussed, but:

>

> How many know they have an underactive digestive system?

>

> I wrote about this awhile ago, inquiring more info, but I really believe

> this is the cause, or a major contributor, of my candidiasis. And if you

> think about it, it makes sense: food is eaten too quickly and the enzymes in

> my mouth don't have time to break the food apart when I gobble something

> down (because I'm always in a rush - but I'm working on this). Once it hits

> the stomach, there aren't enough enzymes and as my colon therapist so kindly

> pointed out, my food in my stool is not broken down. It's sort of like,

> which came first, the candida or the underactive digestive system? Anyway,

> my acupuncturist is the one that first diagnosed my digestive problems - not

> the doctors! And she's been treating me for about three months (and my

> tongue is less puffy, grey, and there are less fissures; but it's still a

> little puffy).

>

> And it also turns out that my alternative medicine doctor thinks part of my

> problem has been with my adrenal glands all along because of my few

> remaining symptoms which I thought were from candida: fatigue, very low

> blood pressure (90/60), really, really bad PMS, acne (around the jaw line,

> indicative of hormone problems).

>

> What I want to share with you all is what I read in one of the many pieces

> of literature (that you probably already know, but this was a light bulb for

> me): candida is a symptom for something else going on in your body. So, like

> for me, it is the underactive digestive system. I thought I had ALL my

> symptoms because I ate lots of sugar, was on the pill for a long time, took

> many antibiotics as a kid, etc. These were all contributing factors, yes.

> But again, I don't know which came first because of these contributing

> factors: the candida or the digestive problems - it could just be one bad

> domino effect - first the candida, then the digestive? or vice versa? I

> don't know - it's just something for ya'll to chew on (no pun intended); my

> last few symptoms mentioned just weren't going away regardless of what I

> tried (with the diet, supplements, etc.).

>

> The colon therapist and my doctors all think I don't have candida anymore,

> just the other problems that need to be fixed. So, I hope this post gives

> some of you a new angle to look at things - I know I am very optimistic at

> this point and the worst is now over for me. I went to New Orleans this

> weekend for Jazz Fest and cheated on our horrific candida diet (badly -

> half a bottle of champagne, dessert, bread, fried foods, some carbs) and I

> am totally fine (unlike eight months ago when I accidentally had a beer and

> woke up with a yeast infection the next day; all my symptoms of candida have

> since then subsided). I am, however, sticking with the candida diet for the

> rest of my life: it's so healthy and I feel so much better. Am I completely

> well? No, not yet. So, I'll be keeping you posted on the progress. As an

> fyi: I've been on the candida diet since September of '02; I used the Body

> Ecology book by Donna Gates, which I swear by, and tried every potion,

> lotion, tincture, prescription, and prayer. And, not to mention, the advice

> of many of you, so thank you! :)

>

> To help with the pms - I've been " prescribed " two tablespoons flax oil per

> day. I'm also on " Premensulator " (which is basically B6); ginseng for

> energy; digestive enzymes I take with meals, and some Chinese herbs for PMS

> and my digestive system. I take one vitamin c tablet for good measure each

> day, and continue to see the acupuncturist every two weeks; I have a

> follow-up with my alternative medicine doctor in two months. He's asked that

> I take my basal temperature every day so he can see the chart (basal

> temperature will be an indicator of adrenal problems as well; not sure if

> it's that it will read high or low in the morning?). The colon therapist

> said I didn't have candida and no longer needed to see me.

>

> I'm now 13 pounds lighter, I'm happier, and much healthier. So stick with

> the diet, but continue to sleuth out problems and solutions - this listserv

> really helped put the pieces together for me. Thank you!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*

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>

>

>

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Pierce wrote:

>

> hi Chuck, can you tell me more about diurnal clocks. thanks :)

Just search on " circadian rhythms. " They first noticed problems with

shift work and jet lag decades ago, but now there is a ton of

information on how to avoid or minimize the adverse effects. We now know

that rather than a singe biochemical " clock " in our brains, we have

many, some of which interact with each other. One of the major

chronometers is mediated by melatonin, which is why taking that at the

right time can help with certain cycle related problems. You might want

to look for that word, as well.

Seasonal Affective Disorder is somewhat related, since it involves

keeping internal clocks entrained. There is also a total light issue,

but it seems that light early in the morning is much more important than

light later in the day. In frequently cloudy areas, such as New England

and Oregon, about 10% of the population is bothered by winter or

Christmas " blues, " basically the same symptoms as hypothyroidism. That

means that we might be even more susceptible or might have more severe

symptoms if the two combine. That's just my speculation; I have seen no

data on that.

BTW, in Australia, Christmas holiday blues are rare, but watch out for

June!

Chuck

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,

I feel you should get the ctoma removed and not wait too long. If you can find an otologist in your area, a doctor who specializes in diseases of the ear, you should get a second opinion. You want the best doctor and an otologist will have more experience dealing with ctoma. As far as hearing before and after surgery, every situation is different. Sometimes removing improves the hearing and sometimes it doesn't. I depend upon how extensive the tumor is and if any reconstruction can be done in the first surgery.

Two weeks is plenty of time to recover. IF you can give yourself two weeks, do it. Good luck to you, keep us posted.

Gus (mom of Dan, 10 y.o.)

(unknown)

Hi, Everyone,I am a female and 30 years old. I am a new member and really need your help, support and experience. I got a lot of informaiton from this great group. My ENT said that I have c-tom on right ear and suggested me to have an surgery in a couple of monthes. Because my current symptom is only hearing loss, but no other symptoms. So under this sitation, when is better for operation, now or I can have it after a couple of years? Anyone know how fast c-tom grow? And because my right ear has a little hearing, is it possible that I do not have any hearing at right ear after the 1st surgery?If I have surgery, how long it will take for recovery after surgery? Can I go back to work/normal life after 2 weeks as I am a software engineer?Any imformation is appreciated!

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Thanks Cheryl for all of the research that you are continuously doing. You

save me an enormous amount of time by pulling articles and bringing them to

the list. I pass them on to other Health care providers. thanks again. Kathy

-NNY

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Hi Angelic....welcome!

Re: diet... basically you can eat about anything ..however make sure it

is well rounded with sufficient amounts of protiens, carbs,and fats.

(vitamins and minerals) We all know junk food is just that so be

prudent.. and it is desirable to restrict your salt intake. Be careful

with raw shellfish, also. Prenisone increases your appetite so remember

that if you feel the need for cake...maybe jello or fruit instead.

love jerry

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No just take your films from the doctor that has it. You have the right to take the films of the CTSCAN no one can say NO.heidi6142000 <hjock@...> wrote:

How would i go about getting a second opinion ? Wouldn't i have to go through the ct scan again ?

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Mark

Ask for the Journals from Budapest, good background

many of the same articles are contained in your Master 2 Disk

These are a set of 5 or more official scientific publications of Professor

about topics within the scope of the work QX practitioners are familiar

Blackman DC

Oosterbeek NL

(unknown)

> Does anyone know of any documented scientific research on the qxci's

effectiveness in any reputable medical journals? So far all I've seen sounds

like a lot of hype.

> Mark Broder

>

>

>

>

>

> ............................................

>

>

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Way to go ! Enjoy your workout! :)

Tink :)

tiffinyshantelle wrote:

> Good morning everyone! It's the new me :). Energized, motivated,

> and happy to start week five! I can't wait to hit the gym after

> church! Woo Hoo! I am pumped! I took my measurements after my bad

> week and I still lost size in my chest, poochy tummy and hips :).

> Infact, here are my 4 week stats:

>

> Chest-35 to 34.25

> Waist- 26.5 to 26

> Pooch-32 to 30.75

> Butt-37.5 to 37

> Hips-37.25 to 36.75

> Right hip- 23 to 22.75

> Weight- 131 to 129

> Body Fat- 27.5% to 25.9%

>

> Hope everyone has a great day!

> -The new improved Tiffiny

>

>

>

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That is GREAT TIFFANY!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOHOOO!!!! Keep it up!

Sunshine

(unknown)

Good morning everyone! It's the new me :). Energized, motivated,

and happy to start week five! I can't wait to hit the gym after

church! Woo Hoo! I am pumped! I took my measurements after my bad

week and I still lost size in my chest, poochy tummy and hips :).

Infact, here are my 4 week stats:

Chest-35 to 34.25

Waist- 26.5 to 26

Pooch-32 to 30.75

Butt-37.5 to 37

Hips-37.25 to 36.75

Right hip- 23 to 22.75

Weight- 131 to 129

Body Fat- 27.5% to 25.9%

Hope everyone has a great day!

-The new improved Tiffiny

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,

Thats awesome! especially after a lousy week. You lost everywhere and the scale

is still down, you must be doing something right. ;) You're doing great, keep it

up!

Chris

(unknown)

Good morning everyone! It's the new me :). Energized, motivated,

and happy to start week five! I can't wait to hit the gym after

church! Woo Hoo! I am pumped! I took my measurements after my bad

week and I still lost size in my chest, poochy tummy and hips :).

Infact, here are my 4 week stats:

Chest-35 to 34.25

Waist- 26.5 to 26

Pooch-32 to 30.75

Butt-37.5 to 37

Hips-37.25 to 36.75

Right hip- 23 to 22.75

Weight- 131 to 129

Body Fat- 27.5% to 25.9%

Hope everyone has a great day!

-The new improved Tiffiny

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I have been on Remicade for four months and do not take MTX. I have had

great results with Remicade. My P is almost completely cleared up. I

seldom have to take pain pills (other than my regular dose of Bextra daily).

My swelling is all but non-existent. Do you suppose it's all in my head

or can Remicade work without MTX?

Sue

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In a message dated 5/14/2003 4:15:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

suembrown861@... writes:

> My swelling is all but non-existent. Do you suppose it's all in my head

> or can Remicade work without MTX?

>

Glad to hear you are having such good results. I'm sure remicade can work

just by itself for some where for others they need the mtx as well. Is

there a reason why you are on remicade rather then enbrel?

Janet

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