Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Looks like progress is slow and political. jprior@... wrote:From: jprior@... jprior@... Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Antidepressants Restudied for Relation to Child Suicide Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 04:11:17 -0400 (EDT) The article below from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by jprior@.... This should be interesting to watch as the drug companies squirm to avoid the truth. jprior@... Antidepressants Restudied for Relation to Child Suicide June 20, 2004 By GARDINER HARRIS A child stabs himself in the neck with a pencil. Another slaps herself in the face. Is either suicidal? It is a question that has divided psychiatrists and drug regulators the world over and goes to the heart of a fierce controversy over whether antidepressants lead some children to become suicidal. Now four researchers at Columbia University hope to provide an answer. By reclassifying reports of suspect or self-destructive behavior that occurred during tests of antidepressants in youngsters, the research team hopes to clarify whether antidepressants lead children and teenagers to become suicidal. Officials at the Food and Drug Administration say they will use results of the study to help them decide, later this summer, whether the agency should discourage doctors from prescribing the pills to youngsters. The study was commissioned by top F.D.A. officials after they rejected an analysis by one of the agency's top experts that concluded that antidepressants could be dangerous when given to teenagers and younger children. With such a controversial beginning, the study is being met by fierce criticism. Senator E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa, issued a statement questioning whether the study was part of an effort by the Food and Drug Administration to suppress the truth about the risks of antidepressants. Mr. Grassley said he was investigating the study as part of a larger inquiry into the agency's handling of the controversy involving antidepressants and suicide. Some prominent mental-health research has questioned the study's methodology. " You've asked the Columbia group to take data that's suboptimal and try to come up with a conclusion, and I really doubt that they will be able to do that,'' said Dr. R. Insel, director of the National Institute for Mental Health. The Columbia team plans to apply a consistent definition of ''suicidal'' to a disparate collection of more than 400 reports of adverse behavior that occurred in 25 clinical tests of nine antidepressants. The tests, undertaken by drug companies, involved Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Luvox, Celexa, Wellbutrin, Remeron, Serzone and Effexor. One of the problems with the drug-company trials is that they tend to confuse self-destructiveness with suicidal attempts, team members said in an interview. " Suicide research has come up with a specific definition of suicide attempts: a self-injurious behavior where there is some intent to die,'' said Barbara Stanley, one of the researchers. The team will give nine independent reviewers the descriptions that drug-company researchers used in reporting the cases involving adverse behavior. . The reviewers will label each event as suicidal, nonsuicidal or indeterminate, and then give the data to federal drug regulators for statistical analysis. Discovering intent from the brief notes provided by the drug companies could be difficult. In a speech before an advisory panel in February, Dr. Laughren, leader of the F.D.A.'s psychiatric drug products group, noted that the drug companies' descriptions were often poor. " We did not have the level of detail in these cases that one would have liked to do a rational classification,'' Dr. Laughren said. Magno Zito, an associate professor of pharmacy and psychiatry at University of land, Baltimore, predicted the Columbia team would not be able to overcome this problem. " If a kid pierces his neck with a pencil, that could be a violent act of self-destruction or it could have been nothing,'' Dr. Zito said. " If the notes don't make the intent clear, how do you interpret that?'' Dr. Zito called the Columbia study " a fundamentally bad idea.'' Dr. Alan Gelenberg, head of the department of psychiatry at the University of Arizona, said the study would provide a needed perspective. But even those who support the study agree that it is unlikely to change many minds on the question of whether antidepressants should be prescribed to children. " This question will never be settled,'' said Dr. McGough, a professor of clinical psychiatry at the University of California, Los Angeles. " Still, I'm eager to see what their answer is.'' In tackling the issue, the researchers say they understand that they are being thrust into a maelstrom rarely seen in psychiatry. " For all of us, our anxiety levels are higher because we know that there are people invested in this one way or the other,'' said Dr. Madelyn Gould, professor of clinical public health in psychiatry. " Anything that has to do with drug treatment in kids is so emotionally charged.'' The study had its beginnings early last year when GlaxoKline submitted to federal drug regulators the results of three trials of its Paxil antidepressant in teenagers and other children. The company had undertaken the studies to take advantage of a federal law that delays by six months the introduction of cheaper, generic versions of drugs when branded makers test medicines in children. In GlaxoKline's trials, depressed young people given Paxil fared no better than those given placebos. It was a disappointing result for GlaxoKline but had no effect on its application for the six-month extension. Still, a reviewer at the Food and Drug Administration noticed something strange about the trials: teenagers given Paxil suffered more problems of ''emotional lability,'' or instability, than those given a placebo. The reviewer, Dr. Mosholder, thought ''emotional lability'' was overly broad. He asked the company to resubmit its data, this time using a separate category for suicide. That report, given in May to both American and British health authorities, was alarming. Teenagers and younger children given Paxil were much more likely to become suicidal than those given placebos. In June, both the British and American authorities warned doctors against prescribing Paxil to youngsters. Worried that the problem could extend far beyond Paxil, the F.D.A. in July asked the makers of eight other antidepressants to submit data from their studies in youngsters. In August, Wyeth issued a warning that doctors should avoid prescribing Effexor to youngsters because it, too, seemed to cause them to become more suicidal. By September, the agency had received the other companies' studies. Looking at them all, Dr. Mosholder concluded that children given antidepressants were almost twice as likely as those given placebos to become suicidal. He suggested the agency discourage the drugs' use in children. It would have been a monumental step. Antidepressants are among the biggest-selling drugs in the world and have long been viewed by doctors as relatively safe. Their use in children has been soaring. Dr. Mosholder's bosses at the Food and Drug Administration, however, said the drug company data was inconsistent and that some events termed ''possibly suicidal'' seemed innocent. Top agency officials hired the Columbia researchers to review the data, and they forbade Dr. Mosholder to speak about his conclusions to an advisory panel reviewing the matter. The silencing of Dr. Mosholder prompted outrage among critics of antidepressants and the ongoing investigation by Senator Grassley. It also has fostered skepticism about the Columbia study. Already, Internet postings are questioning the backgrounds of the Columbia researchers. One asks whether Posner, the lead investigator, has participated in trials financed by the drug industry. In a group interview in a conference room in the New York State Psychiatric Institute, the researchers said they were unbiased. Dr. Posner said that she had participated in some trials sponsored by drug makers but never as a principal investigator. All of the trials involved attention deficit disorder, not depression or suicide, she said. Her three colleagues said that they had never taken part in a drug-company trial. And they said that their study, while hugely controversial, was relatively simple: figuring out the appropriate labels to place on the behaviors in the individual cases. " We're just dealing with a lot of pieces of paper,'' Dr. Gould said. " We're not dealing with people at all. And all the interesting questions happen once we give the data over to the F.D.A.,'' where the statistical analysis will occur. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/20/national/20depress.html?ex=1088719077 & ei=1 & en=\ 345f93c4741f0718 --------------------------------- Get Home Delivery of The New York Times Newspaper. Imagine reading The New York Times any time & anywhere you like! Leisurely catch up on events & expand your horizons. Enjoy now for 50% off Home Delivery! 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Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 I don't think this is progress. I truly believe that the goal of the medical industry in the US, with the help of the FDA, is to focus on the suicidal ideation issue ONLY and then to use smoke and mirrors to make it go away, once again " proving " that SSRIs are " safe and effective " . The implication here is that stabbing oneself in the neck is an ok side effect as long as the child isn't REALLY trying to kill herself. Say what??? I don't want my kid stabbing himself in the neck -- or cutting his arms with anything he can find (as he did) -- because of an adverse reaction to a medication being given to treat " depression " . MAYBE that's a short term acceptable side effect to a drug that is curing cancer for him, but not one given to treat " depression " . I am much more impressed with the British drug regulatory agency and media who have focused on ALL the " psychiatric " adverse reactions to these medications, not just the suicidal one. In fact, the Brits seem to bring out " hostility " as much, if not more, than suicidality. EVERYONE in the US needs to stop focusing on just the suicidality and starting focusing on all psychiatric adverse reactions. The drug companies are winning as long as they can keep suicidality as the only issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 I don't think this is progress. I truly believe that the goal of the medical industry in the US, with the help of the FDA, is to focus on the suicidal ideation issue ONLY and then to use smoke and mirrors to make it go away, once again " proving " that SSRIs are " safe and effective " . The implication here is that stabbing oneself in the neck is an ok side effect as long as the child isn't REALLY trying to kill herself. Say what??? I don't want my kid stabbing himself in the neck -- or cutting his arms with anything he can find (as he did) -- because of an adverse reaction to a medication being given to treat " depression " . MAYBE that's a short term acceptable side effect to a drug that is curing cancer for him, but not one given to treat " depression " . I am much more impressed with the British drug regulatory agency and media who have focused on ALL the " psychiatric " adverse reactions to these medications, not just the suicidal one. In fact, the Brits seem to bring out " hostility " as much, if not more, than suicidality. EVERYONE in the US needs to stop focusing on just the suicidality and starting focusing on all psychiatric adverse reactions. The drug companies are winning as long as they can keep suicidality as the only issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Dear Sara You are so incredibly right there. I can see this alarming trend clearly developing here. Especially this phrase in the NYT article caught my interest: " The Columbia team plans to apply a consistent definition of " suicidal " to a disparate collection of more than 400 reports of adverse behaviour that occurred in 25 clinical tests of nine antidepressants. " Now, something very interesting occurred in The Netherlands. A Member of Parliament, A. Kant from the Socialistic Party, asked our Minister of Health, H. Hoogervorst, some questions with regards to the use of antidepressants in children. One of the questions was [translated from Dutch]: " Must you not conclude in hindsight that British regulatory authorities were right when they already last summer prohibition to prescribe the newer antidepressants to children? If the answer is yes, would it not have been better if the Dutch regulatory authorities at least had taken a stronger stand and more active approach, because the decision of the British regulatory authorities were based on established facts, information where the Netherlands could have access to as well? Could not unnecessary suffering have been prevented with that? " The Dutch Minister of Health, H. Hoogervorst, answered this question on may 25, 2004 as follows: " The scientifically committee for pharmaceutical prescription medication (Committee for Proprietary Medicinal Products - CPMP) has reached a conclusion wherein the prescribing of the newer antidepressants to children won't be prohibited. In the prescription leaflet there now will be a clearer definition of the potential dangers which may happen with application to children. Consequently the British regulatory authorities have found no support for their decision to prohibit the use of the newer antidepressants in children and they will TURN BACK THAT DECISION " For those of you who know a bit of Dutch, here's the URL to the answers give by our Dutch Mister of Health: http://www.minvws.nl/images/2482107_tcm10-50627.pdf My concern and question is: what does our Minister of Health know that we don't know of yet? Either he is making a huge mistake or he is in possession of information we haven't been informed with yet, neither have access to. Are the decisions already made behind the scenes and are they probably preparing for an acceptable manner to present these conclusions to the public? How can the Dutch Minister of Health know that the MHRA will come back on it's decision? I smell a huge fish here and it doesn't smell nice. Charly > I don't think this is progress. I truly believe that the goal of the > medical industry in the US, with the help of the FDA, is to focus on > the suicidal ideation issue ONLY and then to use smoke and mirrors to > make it go away, once again " proving " that SSRIs are " safe and > effective " . The implication here is that stabbing oneself in the neck > is an ok side effect as long as the child isn't REALLY trying to kill > herself. Say what??? I don't want my kid stabbing himself in the > neck -- or cutting his arms with anything he can find (as he did) -- > because of an adverse reaction to a medication being given to treat > " depression " . MAYBE that's a short term acceptable side effect to a > drug that is curing cancer for him, but not one given to treat > " depression " . I am much more impressed with the British drug > regulatory agency and media who have focused on ALL the " psychiatric " > adverse reactions to these medications, not just the suicidal one. In > fact, the Brits seem to bring out " hostility " as much, if not more, > than suicidality. EVERYONE in the US needs to stop focusing on just > the suicidality and starting focusing on all psychiatric adverse > reactions. The drug companies are winning as long as they can keep > suicidality as the only issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Dear Sara You are so incredibly right there. I can see this alarming trend clearly developing here. Especially this phrase in the NYT article caught my interest: " The Columbia team plans to apply a consistent definition of " suicidal " to a disparate collection of more than 400 reports of adverse behaviour that occurred in 25 clinical tests of nine antidepressants. " Now, something very interesting occurred in The Netherlands. A Member of Parliament, A. Kant from the Socialistic Party, asked our Minister of Health, H. Hoogervorst, some questions with regards to the use of antidepressants in children. One of the questions was [translated from Dutch]: " Must you not conclude in hindsight that British regulatory authorities were right when they already last summer prohibition to prescribe the newer antidepressants to children? If the answer is yes, would it not have been better if the Dutch regulatory authorities at least had taken a stronger stand and more active approach, because the decision of the British regulatory authorities were based on established facts, information where the Netherlands could have access to as well? Could not unnecessary suffering have been prevented with that? " The Dutch Minister of Health, H. Hoogervorst, answered this question on may 25, 2004 as follows: " The scientifically committee for pharmaceutical prescription medication (Committee for Proprietary Medicinal Products - CPMP) has reached a conclusion wherein the prescribing of the newer antidepressants to children won't be prohibited. In the prescription leaflet there now will be a clearer definition of the potential dangers which may happen with application to children. Consequently the British regulatory authorities have found no support for their decision to prohibit the use of the newer antidepressants in children and they will TURN BACK THAT DECISION " For those of you who know a bit of Dutch, here's the URL to the answers give by our Dutch Mister of Health: http://www.minvws.nl/images/2482107_tcm10-50627.pdf My concern and question is: what does our Minister of Health know that we don't know of yet? Either he is making a huge mistake or he is in possession of information we haven't been informed with yet, neither have access to. Are the decisions already made behind the scenes and are they probably preparing for an acceptable manner to present these conclusions to the public? How can the Dutch Minister of Health know that the MHRA will come back on it's decision? I smell a huge fish here and it doesn't smell nice. Charly > I don't think this is progress. I truly believe that the goal of the > medical industry in the US, with the help of the FDA, is to focus on > the suicidal ideation issue ONLY and then to use smoke and mirrors to > make it go away, once again " proving " that SSRIs are " safe and > effective " . The implication here is that stabbing oneself in the neck > is an ok side effect as long as the child isn't REALLY trying to kill > herself. Say what??? I don't want my kid stabbing himself in the > neck -- or cutting his arms with anything he can find (as he did) -- > because of an adverse reaction to a medication being given to treat > " depression " . MAYBE that's a short term acceptable side effect to a > drug that is curing cancer for him, but not one given to treat > " depression " . I am much more impressed with the British drug > regulatory agency and media who have focused on ALL the " psychiatric " > adverse reactions to these medications, not just the suicidal one. In > fact, the Brits seem to bring out " hostility " as much, if not more, > than suicidality. EVERYONE in the US needs to stop focusing on just > the suicidality and starting focusing on all psychiatric adverse > reactions. The drug companies are winning as long as they can keep > suicidality as the only issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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