Re: Completed Godzilla, Safety Tests. Safe?

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the sailor " Darwin " story, it really shows a hard lesson.

Everyone should read it!

I'm certainly not going to assure anyone that what they build is

safe, because it assumes I know exactly what they built, and that

I'm an infallible electronics major, none of which is true.

The godzilla devices that use over 9 volts all have resistors

specified in their circuits. These resistors should exceed 10k ohms

in all cases. Even 36 volts, when divided by 10k gives you only

3.6mA. The right resistors must be used with anything above 9volts

on the body. 6 volts should not hurt a person, assuming you do not

pierce the skin. The skin resistance is part of the total

resistance, therefore don't use any battery or other device on open

wounds directly without some sort of limiting resistor, even with 6

volts, as I've shown and written in the plans for these things.

It's used transdermally, not sub-cutaneously (under the skin).

If you build the godzilla device with the meter and the limiting

resistor and potentiometer, you should be able to adjust the current

down to around .3mA or so while connected to it. That's what we

have been doing. More data than that isn't necessary on the

current. 240k will vary over time as your skin is exposed to the

electricity, and usually it will drop.

The main thing I notice here is too much working out theory and not

enough checking over your device to ensure it is per plan. You will

gain understanding faster by double and triple checking the device,

applying it first to only one wrist, then learning it's operations.

You have a long way to go since starting and are moving very slowly

for someone whose life depends on this, IMHO, not a criticism, just

wondering why it is that everyone gets going in one day and you're a

month or longer.

bG

>

>

> Hi,

>

> I've finally finished building my " Godzilla " .

>

> I tested my body's resistance on wet skin. I tested two different

> ways; both sides of the wrist and front/back of lower torso.

Average

> resistance is 240 kOhm.

>

> I then connected a set of wires from the " Godzilla " to a set of

> resistors wired in series with a total resistance of 240 kOhm.

>

> Then, I turned on the " Godzilla " and turned the potentiometer

while

> recording voltage/amps in the full range of the potentiometer.

>

> The voltage range on the meter is 12.7 - 37.3 volts. The amp range

> on the meter is 0.05-0.15 mA.

>

> Now, I read that over 6 volts and 60 mA of DC will cause

difficulty

> breathing. I also read that over 50 volts and 500 mA will cause

> cardiac fibrillation. Finally over 4.1 vols at 41 mA will cause

> pain.

>

> Therefore, my question is this... Is 12.7-37.3 volts & 0.05-0.15mA

> DC safe? Please provide a reference that I could look up and

verify

> for this safety info as my life depends on it.

>

> Also, how do I regulate output to less than 4.1 volts & 0.1-0.05

mA?

>

> It doesn't seem to be possible. For example;

> E = IR

> volts = amps x ohms

> 3 volts = 0.0003 amps x R

> R = 10,000 ohm

>

> 10,000 ohm is not possible since my body's resistance with wet

skin

> is 240,000 Ohm.

>

> It seems impossible to have 0.1 mA - 0.3 mA at less than 4 volts

> unless you can reduce your resistance by puncturing the skin

> (dangerous see following story:

> http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html ). If you

> don't do so, then you'd either have to use higher voltages or

lower

> amps.

>

> The only other solution that I can think of is using higher

> voltages, but upgrading to an AC device that can cycle at higher

> than 10,000 Hz for added safety. Also, this AC device will have to

> run from batteries with a transformer? Any such devices that you

can

> buy? Or plans you can use to make one? Thank you for your help.

>

> Much appreciation,

> LM.

> P.S. If my questions seem dumb it is because I am not an

> electrician. Again, I really appreciate your help :0)

[Guest guest]

From your reply, you're implying that the voltage doesn't matter.

It's the amps that are dangerous. Therefore, 12.7 - 37.3 V and 0.05-

0.15 mA is fine because the amps are so small (even though the volts

are big). Is this correct?

Yes, I have a 10 kOhm resistor built into my four 9 volt battery

Godzilla device. The total circuit, including my body, has 250 kOhm.

However, I haven't hooked myself up to the machine yet because I

don't know if it is safe. This is because I don't know if 12.7 -

37.3 volts at 0.05 - 0.15 mA is safe. I am not an electrician, so I

don't know if I built the machine correctly. Maybe it was supposed

to give (hypothetically) 1-3 volts at 0.1 - 0.3 mA but I botched the

construction so the voltage is higher. This is why I haven't hooked

myself up to the machine yet. I work in a hospital, so for safety, I

will do the 1st hookup in the presence of another nurse (who knows

CPR). Again, please let me know if it is safe to use the machine. In

other words, is 12.7-37.3 volts at 0.05-0.15mA safe? Thank you ;0)

Much appreciation,

LM.

P.S. Why did it take me so long to build the device? Well, it took

me a whole weekend to learn how to use a power drill so that I could

drill holes in the project box. It took me another weekend to learn

how to use a solder. The guys at Sears and Radio Shack were nice

enough to teach me. Then, it took some reading to understand the

difference between volts, Ohms, and amps. I also wanted to build the

full Godzilla (rather than just the four AA batteries hooked up to a

resistor) so that I'd have more control over the voltage/current

since the full Godzilla has a potentiometer. It seems safer also due

to its off switch and attached multimeter, too. I also made some

improvements. I am using medical electrodes instead of

flannel/aluminum wrapped wire. I also added an extra banana jack so

that I could test voltage as well as amps. I also added a solderless

multiple terminal so that I could test different size resistors. I

am also using a velcro battery holder in a battery compartment. The

potentiometer is a 500k unit that was unavailable from Radio Shack

so I had to special order from Allied Electronics. It is a really

neat little device. I wish I could upload the pics and show you

guys. Not bad for a chick who just learned how to solder & use a

drill :0)

> >

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I've finally finished building my " Godzilla " .

> >

> > I tested my body's resistance on wet skin. I tested two

different

> > ways; both sides of the wrist and front/back of lower torso.

> Average

> > resistance is 240 kOhm.

> >

> > I then connected a set of wires from the " Godzilla " to a set of

> > resistors wired in series with a total resistance of 240 kOhm.

> >

> > Then, I turned on the " Godzilla " and turned the potentiometer

> while

> > recording voltage/amps in the full range of the potentiometer.

> >

> > The voltage range on the meter is 12.7 - 37.3 volts. The amp

range

> > on the meter is 0.05-0.15 mA.

> >

> > Now, I read that over 6 volts and 60 mA of DC will cause

> difficulty

> > breathing. I also read that over 50 volts and 500 mA will cause

> > cardiac fibrillation. Finally over 4.1 vols at 41 mA will cause

> > pain.

> >

> > Therefore, my question is this... Is 12.7-37.3 volts & 0.05-

0.15mA

> > DC safe? Please provide a reference that I could look up and

> verify

> > for this safety info as my life depends on it.

> >

> > Also, how do I regulate output to less than 4.1 volts & 0.1-0.05

> mA?

> >

> > It doesn't seem to be possible. For example;

> > E = IR

> > volts = amps x ohms

> > 3 volts = 0.0003 amps x R

> > R = 10,000 ohm

> >

> > 10,000 ohm is not possible since my body's resistance with wet

> skin

> > is 240,000 Ohm.

> >

> > It seems impossible to have 0.1 mA - 0.3 mA at less than 4 volts

> > unless you can reduce your resistance by puncturing the skin

> > (dangerous see following story:

> > http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html ). If you

> > don't do so, then you'd either have to use higher voltages or

> lower

> > amps.

> >

> > The only other solution that I can think of is using higher

> > voltages, but upgrading to an AC device that can cycle at higher

> > than 10,000 Hz for added safety. Also, this AC device will have

to

> > run from batteries with a transformer? Any such devices that you

> can

> > buy? Or plans you can use to make one? Thank you for your help.

> >

> > Much appreciation,

> > LM.

> > P.S. If my questions seem dumb it is because I am not an

> > electrician. Again, I really appreciate your help :0)

[Guest guest]

good going on picking up those skills, I see now what's going on.

no the volts are almost irrelevant, you can assume with the godzilla

device the volts will drop way down as the body is connected to

it. .15mA is current, amps. That's too low, you need about .2-.5mA

when connected to have an effect in a reasonable time. The

godzilla's range will be around .1-2.5mA or so. It's not that

critical. Remember the limiting resistor value (10k) adds to

whatever the body provides, plus the potentiometer's setting. All

that adds up to a lot of resistance, and it's unlikely to cause

trouble. I can't use the S word or the G word, remember the FDA?

I test this way: check the thing is built right, the meter's in

place, and wet the cloth electrodes. Touch the electrodes together,

and read the meter value. Adjust the pot to minimize the milliamps

reading on the meter. Then I put the eledtrodes between the fingers

of one hand. Adjust the pot and see that the current changes. That

gives me an idea of how it's working.

bG

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > I've finally finished building my " Godzilla " .

> > >

> > > I tested my body's resistance on wet skin. I tested two

> different

> > > ways; both sides of the wrist and front/back of lower torso.

> > Average

> > > resistance is 240 kOhm.

> > >

> > > I then connected a set of wires from the " Godzilla " to a set

of

> > > resistors wired in series with a total resistance of 240 kOhm.

> > >

> > > Then, I turned on the " Godzilla " and turned the potentiometer

> > while

> > > recording voltage/amps in the full range of the potentiometer.

> > >

> > > The voltage range on the meter is 12.7 - 37.3 volts. The amp

> range

> > > on the meter is 0.05-0.15 mA.

> > >

> > > Now, I read that over 6 volts and 60 mA of DC will cause

> > difficulty

> > > breathing. I also read that over 50 volts and 500 mA will

cause

> > > cardiac fibrillation. Finally over 4.1 vols at 41 mA will

cause

> > > pain.

> > >

> > > Therefore, my question is this... Is 12.7-37.3 volts & 0.05-

> 0.15mA

> > > DC safe? Please provide a reference that I could look up and

> > verify

> > > for this safety info as my life depends on it.

> > >

> > > Also, how do I regulate output to less than 4.1 volts & 0.1-

0.05

> > mA?

> > >

> > > It doesn't seem to be possible. For example;

> > > E = IR

> > > volts = amps x ohms

> > > 3 volts = 0.0003 amps x R

> > > R = 10,000 ohm

> > >

> > > 10,000 ohm is not possible since my body's resistance with wet

> > skin

> > > is 240,000 Ohm.

> > >

> > > It seems impossible to have 0.1 mA - 0.3 mA at less than 4

volts

> > > unless you can reduce your resistance by puncturing the skin

> > > (dangerous see following story:

> > > http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html ). If

you

> > > don't do so, then you'd either have to use higher voltages or

> > lower

> > > amps.

> > >

> > > The only other solution that I can think of is using higher

> > > voltages, but upgrading to an AC device that can cycle at

higher

> > > than 10,000 Hz for added safety. Also, this AC device will

have

> to

> > > run from batteries with a transformer? Any such devices that

you

> > can

> > > buy? Or plans you can use to make one? Thank you for your help.

> > >

> > > Much appreciation,

> > > LM.

> > > P.S. If my questions seem dumb it is because I am not an

> > > electrician. Again, I really appreciate your help :0)

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > I've finally finished building my " Godzilla " .

> > >

> > > I tested my body's resistance on wet skin. I tested two

> different

> > > ways; both sides of the wrist and front/back of lower torso.

> > Average

> > > resistance is 240 kOhm.

> > >

> > > I then connected a set of wires from the " Godzilla " to a set of

> > > resistors wired in series with a total resistance of 240 kOhm.

> > >

> > > Then, I turned on the " Godzilla " and turned the potentiometer

> > while

> > > recording voltage/amps in the full range of the potentiometer.

> > >

> > > The voltage range on the meter is 12.7 - 37.3 volts. The amp

> range

> > > on the meter is 0.05-0.15 mA.

> > >

> > > Now, I read that over 6 volts and 60 mA of DC will cause

> > difficulty

> > > breathing. I also read that over 50 volts and 500 mA will cause

> > > cardiac fibrillation. Finally over 4.1 vols at 41 mA will cause

> > > pain.

> > >

> > > Therefore, my question is this... Is 12.7-37.3 volts & 0.05-

> 0.15mA

> > > DC safe? Please provide a reference that I could look up and

> > verify

> > > for this safety info as my life depends on it.

> > >

> > > Also, how do I regulate output to less than 4.1 volts & 0.1-

0.05

> > mA?

> > >

> > > It doesn't seem to be possible. For example;

> > > E = IR

> > > volts = amps x ohms

> > > 3 volts = 0.0003 amps x R

> > > R = 10,000 ohm

> > >

> > > 10,000 ohm is not possible since my body's resistance with wet

> > skin

> > > is 240,000 Ohm.

> > >

> > > It seems impossible to have 0.1 mA - 0.3 mA at less than 4

volts

> > > unless you can reduce your resistance by puncturing the skin

> > > (dangerous see following story:

> > > http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html ). If you

> > > don't do so, then you'd either have to use higher voltages or

> > lower

> > > amps.

> > >

> > > The only other solution that I can think of is using higher

> > > voltages, but upgrading to an AC device that can cycle at

higher

> > > than 10,000 Hz for added safety. Also, this AC device will have

> to

> > > run from batteries with a transformer? Any such devices that

you

> > can

> > > buy? Or plans you can use to make one? Thank you for your help.

> > >

> > > Much appreciation,

> > > LM.

> > > P.S. If my questions seem dumb it is because I am not an

> > > electrician. Again, I really appreciate your help :0)