Guest guest Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 the diagrams are basically right, but they predate our slower frequency of 1/30 hertz (30 seconds or so). Yes, the current has to be reversed. yes, it's AC but so slow it might as well be considered DC. If you run pure dc over 10 minutes on a wrist, the joints in fingers get sore. If you reverse at least every 5 min, the soreness goes away. So, we are being VERY conservative using 30 seconds, so that it's unlikely anyone will experience soreness. In the gut, etc, I dont' think this will happen. No, meter goes into either lead. To change the frequency you use capacitor of different values. One shot I think shows using a larger capacitor for a longer timing. The negative side of the capacitor goes to the bottom, or ground. Thanks for feedback, good questions. bG > I'm having a little trouble with the schematics and would appreciate > some clarification.....they all pretty much note the 4 Hz square > wave. I refer specifically to the one titled: > " Auto-godzilla Derived from Beck's schematic, Used in our Auto- > electrifier Assembly Photos " > > Is the OP AMP in this used to generate this freq (was under the > impression that we want only DC current) *OR* is the OP AMP used to > reverse the polarity to the electrodes? Hopefully it's the > latter....just don't understand why the schematic would mention a > freq when it shouldn't be in a true DC output Godzilla. See what I > mean? > > Also, would including a bi-color LED to indicate polarity consume > much, if any, power that would get delivered to the electrodes? Any > impact on battery life? Might this LED be a substitute for the 15k > output resistor? As you can see, I subscribe to the " no stupid > questions " school LOL! Thanks > > > PS Almost forgot, does it matter on which electrode the meter is > installed? Am I correct in assuming that if one were to install it on > the side with the output resistor that it would have to be between > that and the electrode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Hi , The op amp reverses the polarity. The difference bethween the frequency at 4 hz polarity reversal and DC is jsut a matter of terminology. they are the same thing in practical effect. Its all DC coming out of a battery and wether you flip it wmechanically with a switch or flip it electroniclly with a IC doesnt make any difference in what comes out the other end. Frequency is only telling how often somethnig switches. The beck switches at 4 hz and teh godzilla switches at whatever hz you flip the switch at they both ar reversing the current comnig from a battery at an interval. Tho Bi coler LED can consume quite a bit it depends on the value of the resistor. I put a push button on mine so it is only indication when you push the button. It can also pull off most of the current to the electrodes, so you dont want it runnnig all the time. the LED cant be a subsitute for the 15k resistor, I think it has a much lower resistance if any at all. Take care, V mailto:vman@... Thursday, August 19, 2004, 8:11:50 PM, you wrote: > I'm having a little trouble with the schematics and would appreciate > some clarification.....they all pretty much note the 4 Hz square > wave. I refer specifically to the one titled: > " Auto-godzilla Derived from Beck's schematic, Used in our Auto- > electrifier Assembly Photos " > Is the OP AMP in this used to generate this freq (was under the > impression that we want only DC current) *OR* is the OP AMP used to > reverse the polarity to the electrodes? Hopefully it's the > latter....just don't understand why the schematic would mention a > freq when it shouldn't be in a true DC output Godzilla. See what I > mean? > Also, would including a bi-color LED to indicate polarity consume > much, if any, power that would get delivered to the electrodes? Any > impact on battery life? Might this LED be a substitute for the 15k > output resistor? As you can see, I subscribe to the " no stupid > questions " school LOL! Thanks > > PS Almost forgot, does it matter on which electrode the meter is > installed? Am I correct in assuming that if one were to install it on > the side with the output resistor that it would have to be between > that and the electrode? > The group's main page has a menu to the left, with photos of > Godzilla devices and other things useful in research. These are > free to members. Membership is free, but you agree to be on your > own, not take our freedom of speech as medical advice. We are not > doctors! Repeat, we are ordinary lay people, not experts, not > healthy officials, or geniuses of any kind. The information on this > group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT > doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical > advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There > are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical > advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to > the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might > inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein > Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot > say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical > benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. > --bG > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 You don't want an LED in there it will drain the battery, as V says. The meter is there to avoid such problems. With a meter you really see what's going on. The only thing you need to remember is check the battery inside the meter. If that goes, it can act strangely. bG > > > > I'm having a little trouble with the schematics and would appreciate > > some clarification.....they all pretty much note the 4 Hz square > > wave. I refer specifically to the one titled: > > " Auto-godzilla Derived from Beck's schematic, Used in our Auto- > > electrifier Assembly Photos " > > > Is the OP AMP in this used to generate this freq (was under the > > impression that we want only DC current) *OR* is the OP AMP used to > > reverse the polarity to the electrodes? Hopefully it's the > > latter....just don't understand why the schematic would mention a > > freq when it shouldn't be in a true DC output Godzilla. See what I > > mean? > > > Also, would including a bi-color LED to indicate polarity consume > > much, if any, power that would get delivered to the electrodes? Any > > impact on battery life? Might this LED be a substitute for the 15k > > output resistor? As you can see, I subscribe to the " no stupid > > questions " school LOL! Thanks > > > > > PS Almost forgot, does it matter on which electrode the meter is > > installed? Am I correct in assuming that if one were to install it on > > the side with the output resistor that it would have to be between > > that and the electrode? > > > > > > > The group's main page has a menu to the left, with photos of > > Godzilla devices and other things useful in research. These are > > free to members. Membership is free, but you agree to be on your > > own, not take our freedom of speech as medical advice. We are not > > doctors! Repeat, we are ordinary lay people, not experts, not > > healthy officials, or geniuses of any kind. The information on this > > group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT > > doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical > > advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There > > are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical > > advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to > > the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might > > inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein > > Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot > > say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical > > benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. > > --bG > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Hi bobluhrs, Right the capacitor tha gives 30 seconds for that circuit is a 22uf cap just subsitute the .1uf with a 22uf and it will reverse in 30 seconds instead of 4 hz. Take care, V mailto:vman@... Thursday, August 19, 2004, 9:54:29 PM, you wrote: > the diagrams are basically right, but they predate our slower > frequency of 1/30 hertz (30 seconds or so). Yes, the current has to > be reversed. yes, it's AC but so slow it might as well be > considered DC. If you run pure dc over 10 minutes on a wrist, the > joints in fingers get sore. If you reverse at least every 5 min, > the soreness goes away. So, we are being VERY conservative using 30 > seconds, so that it's unlikely anyone will experience soreness. In > the gut, etc, I dont' think this will happen. > No, meter goes into either lead. > To change the frequency you use capacitor of different values. One > shot I think shows using a larger capacitor for a longer timing. > The negative side of the capacitor goes to the bottom, or ground. > Thanks for feedback, good questions. > bG > >> I'm having a little trouble with the schematics and would > appreciate >> some clarification.....they all pretty much note the 4 Hz square >> wave. I refer specifically to the one titled: >> " Auto-godzilla Derived from Beck's schematic, Used in our Auto- >> electrifier Assembly Photos " >> >> Is the OP AMP in this used to generate this freq (was under the >> impression that we want only DC current) *OR* is the OP AMP used > to >> reverse the polarity to the electrodes? Hopefully it's the >> latter....just don't understand why the schematic would mention a >> freq when it shouldn't be in a true DC output Godzilla. See what I >> mean? >> >> Also, would including a bi-color LED to indicate polarity consume >> much, if any, power that would get delivered to the electrodes? > Any >> impact on battery life? Might this LED be a substitute for the 15k >> output resistor? As you can see, I subscribe to the " no stupid >> questions " school LOL! Thanks >> >> >> PS Almost forgot, does it matter on which electrode the meter is >> installed? Am I correct in assuming that if one were to install it > on >> the side with the output resistor that it would have to be between >> that and the electrode? > The group's main page has a menu to the left, with photos of > Godzilla devices and other things useful in research. These are > free to members. Membership is free, but you agree to be on your > own, not take our freedom of speech as medical advice. We are not > doctors! Repeat, we are ordinary lay people, not experts, not > healthy officials, or geniuses of any kind. The information on this > group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT > doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical > advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There > are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical > advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to > the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might > inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein > Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot > say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical > benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. > --bG > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 In message <698046811.20040819215850@...>, V <vman@...> writes >Tho Bi coler LED can consume quite a bit it depends on the value of the >resistor. I put a push button on mine so it is only indication when you >push the button. It can also pull off most of the current to the >electrodes, so you dont want it runnnig all the time. > >the LED cant be a subsitute for the 15k resistor, I think it has a much >lower resistance if any at all. An LED exhibits a voltage drop of about two volts but will pass as much current as it can when that voltage has been reached. Theoretically the LED could be included in line with the output resistor, but the low currents used would make it very dim if visible at all. To use the LED as a polarity reversion indicator it would be the two lead red/green type with it's own 3300 or 4700 ohm in-line resistor wired across the op-amp outputs. The LED running at about 5mA would probably consume about 10-20 times the treatment current which would have a significant impact on battery life. -- Clive http://www.bigclive.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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