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I don't know if I have Lyme. I suspect that I do and I have an apt April 3 to

get my test results. The thing is, I have a lot of joint pain, I have for 5

years. This pain is different. I don't want to be one of those people who

attributes every pain to my already existing illness and ignores something new.

I am not sure if that makes sense. I guess I am just wanting to make sure that

I don't just ignore this and say " Oh, it's my fibromyalgia (caused by Lyme or

whatever the tests show) " , when it could be something else that maybe I should

go see my doctor for. Does that make sense?

Thank you for the help,

Dawn

> Do you have Lymes? Knee pain, especially on one side is a symptom.

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Hi Gail,

Is this something that I would need to go to the doctor for, or is it just a

rest it type of a thing? What do you do when it flares up? How did you

determine that dairy was a trigger?

Thanks,

Dawn

Sounds like bursitis to me. I have the same thing. Whenever my > inflammation

level is high I get terrible knee pain. For instance dairy > products cause

inflammation for me and makes my knee ache. Also when on > antibiotic therapy my

knees one shoulder and my hands ache.> Gail

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Dawn Munn wrote:

Dawn,,

Yes, I would go see a Dr. for sure. There are several things that should

be ruled out. There is not a lot I can do for my pain as I am allergic

to aspirin and NSAIDS which are the usual treatment. I take supplements

that are supposed to detox my system from the endotoxins from infection

and antibiotic related die off. Charcoal helps. Ice packs help. I know

because if I eat diary, especially cheese, my knees ache within a few

hours. If I avoid dairy not so much. Add back the dairy and the aching

comes back. Dairy is considered an inflammatory food as is wheat. I am

not bothered as much by wheat but would probably do well to avoid it too.

Gail

> Hi Gail,

>

> Is this something that I would need to go to the doctor for, or is it just a

rest it type of a thing? What do you do when it flares up? How did you

determine that dairy was a trigger?

>

> Thanks,

> Dawn

>

>

> Sounds like bursitis to me. I have the same thing. Whenever my > inflammation

level is high I get terrible knee pain. For instance dairy > products cause

inflammation for me and makes my knee ache. Also when on > antibiotic therapy my

knees one shoulder and my hands ache.> Gail

>

>

>

> It’s the future of Hotmail: Try Windows Live Mail beta

> http://www2.imagine-msn.com/minisites/mail/Default.aspx?locale=en-us

>

>

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Dawn, regarding " going to the doctor, " it all depends on how much

pain you are in, how debilitating it is and how it affects your life,

how much you want to invest (time, money, risk) in other routes, how

long it's been going on, and other things that all have to be weighed

in your thinking.

Bursitis is inflammation of the bursa sacs that surround the joints.

Direct experience I have is pretty painful bursitis of both hips. It

went on for such a long time, I unknowingly " compensated " when

walking to shift my weight and avoid the stress on the joints, but I

thereby threw my balance off and put weight on other joints and bones

that were not in the original walking equation in the same way. I

ended up with more pain, but this time in the shins, that crippled me

from walking even more.

So I had cortisone injections of both hips. Two in the right and one

in the left, I think, if I remember correctly (this was in the late

80s.) At that time, I was told to sit in a chair (like an easy chair

or recliner) with ice packed around the site of injection, I think

for 24 hours afterward.

I do know that when it was over, I was able to start walking properly

and then I realized the real origin of the pain that had been causing

me trouble in the first place. The dead giveaway for dxing me was

when the doctor placed a finger on the bursa sac of the right hip and

I immediately let out a YOW and involuntarily jumped. I'm not one

usually prone to loud verbal explosions, but that simple touch of the

bursa just did me in and my response was not " controllable. "

Some of this stuff is hereditary. Did your mother or grandmother

have bursitis? Maybe they did, but no one ever talked about it. You

should ask. It wasn't till after I found myself with some of these

things (bursitis, gallbladder, fibroids, arthritis or what they used

to call " arthritis " ) that I bothered to ask, and then I found out

that I seem to be mirroring the body that my grandmother lived her

life in.

Also, I wouldn't ordinarily advise anyone to succumb to shots of

cortisone, but in this case I'm glad I did it because it made the

difference, for me, in walking or not walking, and keeping walking

meant improvement in other areas for me, too, at the time. It's all

something you have to sort out in your head and then decide on.

in Champaign IL

>

> Hi Gail,

> Is this something that I would need to go to the doctor for, or is

it just a rest it type of a thing? What do you do when it flares

up? How did you determine that dairy was a trigger?

> Thanks,

> Dawn

> Sounds like bursitis to me. I have the same thing. Whenever my >

inflammation level is high I get terrible knee pain. For instance

dairy > products cause inflammation for me and makes my knee ache.

Also when on > antibiotic therapy my knees one shoulder and my hands

ache.> Gail

>

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Re: knee pain

Ditto for any quinolone. They are very dangerous for tendons. Buyer

beware.

a Carnes

>

> Cipro makes ligaments and tendons more pliable. They can actually

become too

> loose and overstretch. Are you taking cipro? That could account for

the pain.

> Your joints, knees, etc , could be moving around. (I'm a personal

trainer. )

> Carol In LI

>

>

>

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Yes, one-sided pains, especially in the knee, are a symptom of Lymes.

> > Cipro makes ligaments and tendons more pliable. They can actually

become too

> > loose and overstretch. Are you taking cipro? That could account

for the pain.

> > Your joints, knees, etc , could be moving around. (I'm a personal

trainer. )

> > Carol In LI

> >

> >

> >

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I would look up Lyme symptoms. When I have an opportunity I'll try to

post a site.

> >

> >> I am hoping that this might sound familiar to someone and that maybe

> >> someone would have some advice for me. Last Thursday, I had some

mild

> >> stomach/intestinal flu symptoms with a low grade fever. This lasted

> >> maybe 4-5 days. About 3 days into it, my muscles started to hurt,

> >> like they were overused or fatigued. Most of that went away, but I

> >> seem to have residual knee pain. It is really severe in my right

knee

> >> (which is unusual because I have had 3 surgeries on my left). It is

> >> definately not fibromyalgia pain, it feels more like it is in the

> >> muscle. It doesn't hurt to stand or walk, just bending it in any

> >> way. I do have some mild swelling. I did not injure it. Does this

> >> sound like anything to anyone? Any advice is welcome.

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >> Dawn

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in

any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> >

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Here are few references about knee pain & Lymes. I have also seen many

references to asymetrical pain in Lymes - pains that tend to appear on

one side of the body only, but cannot find at this moment:

" ...Large joints are most often effected, particularly the knees. "

-cdc site

" ...chronic Lyme arthritis—brief bouts of pain and swelling usually

occurring in one or more of the large joints, especially the knees. "

-American college of physicians

" ...Arthritis develops in about half of the people with late-stage

Lyme disease. Episodes of swelling and pain in a few large joints,

especially the knee, typically recur for several years. The knees are

commonly more swollen than painful, often hot to the touch, and, in

rare instances, red. Cysts may develop and rupture behind the knee,

suddenly increasing the pain. About 10% of people with Lyme arthritis

develop persistent knee problems. " -UMDNJ

.... " Within a few weeks to 2 years after the start of the infection,

about 60% of people develop arthritis, with joint pain and swelling.

The knee is the joint most often affected. " University of Michigan

health system

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Hi Gail,

That is really interesting. Dairy and I have been in a battle for a while now,

but I just can't get myself to give it up (I say as I sit here with a belly ache

from eating dairy). When my son was a tiny infant, he had a severe allergy to

dairy, and since I was nursing him, I had to avoid it completely. I felt so

good! Even knowing that, I really like cheese and yogurt! (I don't eat any

other forms of dairy, because I definitely couldn't handle them). But I never

really made a connection between my joint pains flaring up and eating dairy. I

will have to start to pay attention to that. I already avoid all glutens

strictly (which includes wheat). Are there any other foods that are known to

increase inflammation?

Thanks again,

Dawn

Dawn,,> Yes, I would go see a Dr. for sure. There are several things that should

> be ruled out. There is not a lot I can do for my pain as I am allergic > to

aspirin and NSAIDS which are the usual treatment. I take supplements > that are

supposed to detox my system from the endotoxins from infection > and antibiotic

related die off. Charcoal helps. Ice packs help. I know > because if I eat

diary, especially cheese, my knees ache within a few > hours. If I avoid dairy

not so much. Add back the dairy and the aching > comes back. Dairy is considered

an inflammatory food as is wheat. I am > not bothered as much by wheat but would

probably do well to avoid it too.> Gail

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Hi Ballady,

I am curious, when you talk about assymetrical pain, are you referring to all of

the joint pain being on one side of the body? Or more of only one of two joints

being affected (ie right knee, not left; left shoulder, not right)?

-Dawn

Here are few references about knee pain & Lymes. I have also seen many>

references to asymetrical pain in Lymes - pains that tend to appear on> one side

of the body only, but cannot find at this moment:

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Hi Carol,

I really appreciate the heads up, but no, I am not taking cipro. In fact, I

haven't taken any antibiotics since my son was born 16 months ago. I have

always been told that I have loose joints, though. In fact, you hold my foot in

one hand, and grip right above my ankle with the other and pull, and my ankle

will slide in and out of joint. I have been told that aging would tighten them

up, but I am 28, I'm not sure when it's supposed to happen.

So, in your opinion, you think I may have just overstretched a tendon or

ligament? I think that is a good possibility. Can you give me any advice on

how to treat it (of course I am asking unofficially)?

Thanks again,

Dawn

Cipro makes ligaments and tendons more pliable. They can actually become too >

loose and overstretch. Are you taking cipro? That could account for the pain. >

Your joints, knees, etc , could be moving around. (I'm a personal trainer. )>

Carol In LI

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Dawn, I am not sure I understood your post, so excuse me if my reply

is meaningless. Quinolones are antibiotics often used to treat Lyme

disease and other infections. The include Cipro, Levaquin, Avalox,

Tequin and others. Samento and cat's claw are natural quinolones and

will cause problems in patients who cannot take quinolones. Also, many

animal meats contain antibiotics, so those of us who cannot take

quinolones probably need to try to get antibiotic free meats if

possible.

Quinolones also can cause central nervous system damage. This is very

insidious in Lyme and cfs patients as the damage will look just like

the brain fog and anxiety caused by the disease.

Personally, I would try any other antibiotic my doctor would prescribe

rather than take any quinolones. The damage from quinolones can

manifest in as short a time as 3 days and doctors are notoriously

unaware of side effects for the drugs they prescribe, so may not warn

you at all. This is not fun when you realize that tendon pain and CNS

damage do look just like Lyme and fibro.

a Carnes

>

> What is quinolone? What is it used for?Ditto for any quinolone.

They are very dangerous for tendons. Buyer > beware.

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Dawn,

Here is another quote (below) that is similar to information I have

come across many times:

" Approximately ten percent of Lyme patients suffer from chronic

arthritis. Joint swelling and pain will last for months at a time,

often for a year or more. About sixty percent may experience at least

one episode of arthritis with symptoms that are significantly

one-sided with pain and discomfort as with one knee rather than both.

The larger joints, like the knees, seem to be more commonly

afflicted. Compared with symptoms commonly experienced with

Rheumatoid arthritis, one generally finds pain and discomfort in

joints on both sides of the body. "

B.

>

> Hi Ballady,

>

> I am curious, when you talk about assymetrical pain, are you

referring to all of the joint pain being on one side of the body? Or

more of only one of two joints being affected (ie right knee, not

left; left shoulder, not right)?

>

> -Dawn

>

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A day after I took cipro I ended up in hospital I was in so much pain. The

tendons in my groin area became so unbearably painful I couldn't even bear a

short trip in the car. Fortunately for me the pain subsided a bit after a

month or so but it took 2 full years for it to go completely. I consider

myself lucky that the pain has gone

Re: knee pain

> Dawn, I am not sure I understood your post, so excuse me if my reply

> is meaningless. Quinolones are antibiotics often used to treat Lyme

> disease and other infections. The include Cipro, Levaquin, Avalox,

> Tequin and others. Samento and cat's claw are natural quinolones and

> will cause problems in patients who cannot take quinolones. Also, many

> animal meats contain antibiotics, so those of us who cannot take

> quinolones probably need to try to get antibiotic free meats if

> possible.

>

> Quinolones also can cause central nervous system damage. This is very

> insidious in Lyme and cfs patients as the damage will look just like

> the brain fog and anxiety caused by the disease.

>

> Personally, I would try any other antibiotic my doctor would prescribe

> rather than take any quinolones. The damage from quinolones can

> manifest in as short a time as 3 days and doctors are notoriously

> unaware of side effects for the drugs they prescribe, so may not warn

> you at all. This is not fun when you realize that tendon pain and CNS

> damage do look just like Lyme and fibro.

>

> a Carnes

>

>

>>

>> What is quinolone? What is it used for?Ditto for any quinolone.

> They are very dangerous for tendons. Buyer > beware.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

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Hi a,

Sorry that my post was confusing. I just got a new email program and I am still

learning how it works. You answered my questions very well. Thank you very

much for the information.

-Dawn

Dawn, I am not sure I understood your post, so excuse me if my reply > is

meaningless. Quinolones are antibiotics often used to treat Lyme > disease and

other infections. The include Cipro, Levaquin, Avalox, > Tequin and others.

Samento and cat's claw are natural quinolones and > will cause problems in

patients who cannot take quinolones. Also, many > animal meats contain

antibiotics, so those of us who cannot take > quinolones probably need to try to

get antibiotic free meats if > possible. > > Quinolones also can cause central

nervous system damage. This is very > insidious in Lyme and cfs patients as the

damage will look just like > the brain fog and anxiety caused by the disease.> >

Personally, I would try any other antibiotic my doctor would prescribe > rather

than take any quinolones. The damage from quinolones can > manifest in as short

a time as 3 days and doctors are notoriously > unaware of side effects for the

drugs they prescribe, so may not warn > you at all. This is not fun when you

realize that tendon pain and CNS > damage do look just like Lyme and fibro.> >

a Carnes

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We're overlooking one thing. Is this a CLL/SLL related thing? Are we just growing older? Would be interesting to contemplate on that -

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Hi Jeannie,

It's nice to know that there are some problems that can be fixed.

The knees seem to be a lot simpler than the spine. If only spine

technology would catch up with us, we'd be a much happier lot.

Rochelle

-- In neck pain , Abbott

<jeannieboo1@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Rochelle,

> I've had both knees replaced, I'm only 52, but they went out

before my back and neck did. Before i had one of my knees replaced,

I had injections of Synvisc. It really helped for a long period of

time. I was in a job that was physically demanding, so after the

Synvisc came an Arthroscopy, which gave me some added pain-free time-

about a year if I remember correctly. Then it was time for a

replacement. I had them replaced about 4 years apart, and in that

time frame, tecnology really changed. Healing time was less, it was

less invasive, and if you go to PT right away after surgery, it's

remarkable how soon you'll feel better. I just wanted to let you

know about options before replacements. I was also very heavy at the

time, my dr. kept telling me I would feel better if i lost weight.

By the time i did, my knees were already blown. Even though I had a

very physical job, my dr. insisted I get regular exercise, even just

walking. My pain basically started with arthritis, even

> with the knee replacements, I'm not pain-free in my knees because

of the arthritis. I don't know if any of this info helps- just

thought I would tell you my side of the knee problems. It is fixable.

> Jeannie

>

> Rochelle <rccoc1977@...> wrote:

> Hi Matt,

> You've come to the same conclusion I have. I need to get into

> better shape also. I'm weak all over. Who knows what the next part

> of me will start hurting. Although I'm predicting my knees since

> they've been taking over for my back. This is why I'm going into

PT

> early. If my knees go out on me. I'm a goner.

>

> Rochelle

>

> PS. Sounds like you are on the road to recovery, but the road is

> always a long one. I believe it may take the rest of our lives.

>

> - In neck pain , " Hickman "

> <matthewhickman1@> wrote:

> >

> > Hey Rochelle,

> >

> > Ice always helps me on my lower back. I have been doing PT

> for about

> > 3-4 weeks. Yesturday I had the enntire afternood symptom free!

> The pain

> > came back after that. I haven't felt that good since November

> 05'! I have

> > a good boss and he is letting me take it easy at work. PT wants

> me to do

> > the excercises every hour but I am only able to get down on the

> floor and

> > stretch about 5 times a day. I'm going to hang in there with the

> excersises

> > for a while longer. After I get a little stronger I'm going to

> have to get

> > in better shape. The PT I go to has an after care wellness

> program for $35

> > a month, I can go in and work with an assistant to focus on

generl

> health

> > excersises. I think I will do it. I don't think my back has

> another

> > recovery in it.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Matt

> > back pain

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi everyone,

> > > I am going to physical therapy for neck pain. But more and more

> > my

> > > low back pain is getting worse. Sitting anywhere especially on

> > the

> > > couch in front of TV is a chore because of the pain. I'm

> > thinking of

> > > chiropractic and will ask the spine surgeon on Friday. However,

> > I'm

> > > wondering about the group's experience has been. Does physical

> > therapy

> > > give more long range improvement than chiropractic? I know I

> > have disc

> > > degeneration in my low back (it's extreme in my neck) but I've

> > never

> > > hurt my back like I did my neck and I thought my back was

> pretty

> > > strong, but I guess not.

> > >

> > > Rochelle

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Stuparyk wrote:

>I'm disappointed to be out at the beginning of a rotation,

> but I want this to heal completely.

hi lisa, hey i dont blame ya! and you can still do the rotation

without doing any cardio.... the point of the rotation is to do the

ripped workouts. so, yes, do the upper body stuff in ripped and

skip the squats and lunges. and if you can keep up with your ab

work and stretching too, then that is fabulous! also, when your

knee is all better and you want to get back into doing cardio, then

look into getting a brace for your knee (you can get them at

shoppers, zehrs, zellers, etc)

im very glad that you feel the injury is not serious. i have a

knee (and lower back) that gives me twinges at times and i know that

it is not a nice feeling! hang in there,

:*carolyn.

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Hi ,

I'm way behind in mails - I hope you're feeling

better. I had something like this back when I used to

run (years and years ago). It did take awhile - a few

weeks - to resolve. ALthough I think I was only off

exercising for a short time - maybe a week or so....it

was a long time ago.

Hope you feel better,

Donna

--- Stuparyk wrote:

> Hi gang. I've done some research, and I think I

> have knee tendonitis. All

> the symptoms fit, including the sharp, burning pain

> to the outside of my

> knee (where another tendon attaches). Not a serious

> problem, although I

> should have been treating it sooner, and resting

> more! Usually caused by

> overuse - and often called jumper's knee -

> basketball players, or too much

> uphill work, and runners often get it. I'm going to

> need to take some rest

> days, and use pain relievers and ice to calm down

> the inflammation. So I'm

> going to modify the Jari rotation - I won't be doing

> any cardio today, but

> will do the abs and yoga (without any kneeling

> poses!). Yesterday's little

> walk on the tmill really seemed to make it worse, so

> I'm going to have to

> really back off. I'm disappointed to be out at the

> beginning of a rotation,

> but I want this to heal completely. Tomorrow I

> should be able to do the

> upper body work in Ripped, but squats are another

> no-no. I'm going to

> invest in a thicker yoga mat - I just have the thin

> sticky type, and I'll

> bet it wasn't enough padding on our hardwood floor

> for the yoga and mat work

> I was doing. I don't remember a specific incident

> that set it off, so I

> doubt it was a traumatic injury; just overuse. I do

> have a doctors appt in

> two weeks, and if it's not better by then, I will

> certainly bring it up!

>

> in Ontario

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/983 -

> Release Date: 9/1/2007

> 4:20 PM

>

>

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Thanks, everyone. Glad to know it should go away. It tends to flare up in

mid-day. I'm off to sit down in front of the tv (or with a book) with ice

again. I really wanted to walk even just 10 minutes on the tmill today, but

I held back. Feels funny not to be doing any cardio.

in Ontario

-----Original Message-----

From:

Hi ,

I'm way behind in mails - I hope you're feeling

better. I had something like this back when I used to

run (years and years ago). It did take awhile - a few

weeks - to resolve. ALthough I think I was only off

exercising for a short time - maybe a week or so....it

was a long time ago.

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date: 9/3/2007

9:31 AM

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I just wanted to ask if anyone has a pulling feeling in their knee? I am 4 weeks post surgery for TRKR and my pain was pretty much gone until yesterday. When I gbend the knee it feels like my incision is pulling. I had an infection from steri strips that were put on but have been off for a week. Also, how long did you have to wear the stockings?

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Yes, Keim, I had a pulling feeling in my knee, numbness, extremely sensitive incision and all-around general discomfort for about 8 weeks after TKR. I had my left knee replaced 4-25-07 and the right one 9-5-07. I got through the first one with very little pain and no problems but the right one was completely different. I had a lot of pain and it didn't want to bend for the first 4 weeks---I thought I was stuck with a straight leg for the rest of my life, but little by little it became easier to bend and now I have equal bend in both knees. I asked my doctor about the strange feelings in my knee and she said it was caused by the nerves that were cut during surgery and/or the tourniquet applied during surgery. She said it could take 6 months for the nerves to reconnect and heal. About 2 months after surgery, I started to notice that the discomfort wasn't as bad and now it's minimal but still there. Hang in there----it gets better.

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>

> I just wanted to ask if anyone has a pulling feeling in their

knee? I am 4

> weeks post surgery for TRKR and my pain was pretty much gone until

yesterday.

> When I gbend the knee it feels like my incision is pulling. I had

an infection

> from steri strips that were put on but have been off for a week.

Also, how

> long did you have to wear the stockings?

> Keim

>

>

>

> ************************************** See what's new at

http://www.aol.com

>

Hey Keim,

Yep I feel the same thing especially on the upper part of the scar

just starting at the upper edge of the knee cap (patella). Weird

feeling isn't it. My PT says we have to mobilize the scar tissue

with exercise and massage. I saw the PT aid massage it, certainly

someone I can do while watching TV with the aid of some creme.

how's your pain level these days? Are you still taking pain meds?

I am but it is much better.

How's your range of motion? Flexion? Extension?

Sorry for the twenty questions!

Roland

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Hi Roland. My pain level was good until a few days ago and now its worse again. Nothing like right after surgery but still not fun. I was walking without walker part of the time and then Dr told me not to for 2 more weeks. My range of motion is pretty good I guess. I can ride a stationary bike which my pt thought was amazing. I have trouble with my leg getting stiff and straight when I am on it too much. I was only taking advil for the pain as the Hydrocodone was doing nothing. I also found that Advil pm works pretty well. I don't mind the questions at all. I get more from this list than from my Dr.

Thanks, KeimSee what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

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