Re: [MedicaidforHDOT] inflatable chambers

[Guest guest]

,

You may wish to inquire from the military procurement agencies what their

research has told them about the inflatable Gamow) bags which were procured for

the Afghanistan War.InternationalHyperbaric Association (IMA) in their

newsletter Pressure Point stated first item August 2002 that about 30 portables

were sent to Afghanistan and in the same paragraph talked about their possible

use for AMS, air mountain sickness as a number of the Afghan mountains

wereabove 8,000 feet.. It was not specifically stated they were to be used in

case of

AMS, but the was the implication in the newsletter.

Then we hear from three different sources that 60 portables together with 10

litre oxygenators were sent to Iraq, but I have not been able to confirm.

Still trying, however. This would be great news for the entire hyperbaric

world,

if the general public could know what was foreseen as the use of the

hyperbaric chambers. And what borough on the military procurement and research

behind

it. But this gets into medical, political and economic conflicts with each

special interest supporting its position, never mind the hundreds of thousands

of brain-damaged people who need help; and want peace among the conflicting

interests. For humanity' sake the Congress should hold open hearings.

Now if there is a confidential reason that miliray procurement cannot be

revealed then it should be so stated, because the cat is out of the bag on the

60

chambers which were flown to Iraq.

My first thoughts was they would be used in wound care and presurgical and

post surgical. Then I was told by an informed source but wishing the source to

remain confidential that they were to be used in case weapons of mass

destruction came into the conflict. And that made sense/. Then our friend in

Argentina suggested theymight have been purchased in anticipation of oil fields

once

again being set o;n fire and that too would make sense. You may be able to

research this. And then Dr. Neubauer's upcoming conference is going to spend

time in open discussion of the effectivenesss of the milder pressures. This

should prove most helpful. If there is anything pressurized oxygen needs it is

full and open discussion. Manso;n

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/13/03 2:07:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, FAMANSON@...

writes:

> medicaid-unsubscribe .

>

>

Please delete me from the list. There are just too many of these. Thanks!

Dr. Cheryl Bruce

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/29/2003 12:57:09 AM Central Daylight Time,

rhartsoe@... writes:

> This is for those who have the inflatable chambers. Would you mind

> answering a private questionaire for me? These questions could be very

important to

> a lot of people in the future. If you would answer the following questions

> and email them to me at

> rhartsoe@...

>

> 1.) Did you do regular hbot before using the inflatable chamber? How

> many?

>

> 2.) How would you compare the improvements of the first 40 or more sessi

> ons in a regular chamber to the following treatments in the inflatable?

>

> 3.) What protocol do you use at home with the inflatable, i.e.: how often,

> how long, etc.

>

> 4.) Do you introduce oxygen and if so what method do you use, please give

> details.

>

> 5.) If you use oxygen, do you use an oxygen monitor for the levels inside

> the chamber?

>

> 6.) How many sessions have you done in the portable so far? Over how

> long?

>

> 7.) Did you recieve any type training to begin? Have you taken any type

> training in hyperbarics?

>

> 8.) Would you be willing to contribute information to a study?

>

> 9.) What are your most positive feelings on the inflatable chamber that

> you have?

>

> 10.) What are your most negative feelings on the inflatable chamber that

> you have?

>

> Please give as many details as possible. Also, what would you like to see

> different? Would you be willing to answer additional questions?

>

> NOTE: All replies are confidential. Identities of anyone sharing

> information will be protected.

>

> The symposium in FL may be even more interesting than we thought. There may

> soon be some good news for those with brain injury. Please help by sharing

> your info with us.

>

> Hartsoe

> rhartsoe@...

> www.miraclemountain.org

>

>

>

Untill this was explained in more detailed form I would sugest everyone not

to anwser and of these questions. No offense but some of the questions

you have asked are a little concerning. You at one time were very against these

types of chambers. Now you are asking questions of this nature which causes a

little concern. Why you would be so interested now. I answered some of

your questions before but when this email came out the wording and questions

caused great concern.

Darin

[Guest guest]

As a parent of a son with CP who has done 125 HBO treatments. I would love

to hear these answers. I have always wonder how these inflatable chambers

could help my son. I was told at several conference that I have went to that

had

the chambers on display that they do not use medical oxygen. So I have to ask

how can they help our kids by using the air that is floating around us? I

have been to the 2 HBO conferences and have heard from lots of people. So I

really would like to hear from you all that have these chambers at home. I

think

the questions are great and thanks for asking them.

Thank

Rita

[Guest guest]

Rita , and the group I did not mean to sound rude by saying I think

that he needed to explain why he was asking these questions and we needed

further explanation but you have to understand there are people in this feild

that

would use this information in a negative way. It needs to be left up to the

experts in the feild that is working on reasearch. The experts in the feild can

answer you questions if you ahave questions pertaining to the portable

Chambers.

Darin

[Guest guest]

The inflatable chambers work by increasing the partial pressure of oxygen

by concentrating room air. Remember the infamous McGill study that showed

that the children receiveing 1.3 ata of room air had significant

improvements. THe question remains...what would have been the level of

improvement if they had been at 1.3 ata or 1.5 ata with 100% oxygen.

I have my bias that 1.3 to 1.5 ata with 100% oxygen is better than room

air, but that bias is not just prejudice. THe above is not something that

can be achieved in an inflatable chamber; however, until we can offer CP

and other brain injured individuals adequate access to chambers that can

provide 1.3 to 1.5 and 100% oxygen then inflatable chambers have an

important role to play.

KP Stoller, MD, FAAP

Assistant Clinical Prof, UNM HSC Dept Pediatrics

Simply Hyperbarics

www.simplyhyperbarics.com

> As a parent of a son with CP who has done 125 HBO treatments. I would

> love to hear these answers. I have always wonder how these inflatable

> chambers could help my son. I was told at several conference that I

> have went to that had the chambers on display that they do not use

> medical oxygen. So I have to ask how can they help our kids by using

> the air that is floating around us? I have been to the 2 HBO

> conferences and have heard from lots of people. So I really would like

> to hear from you all that have these chambers at home. I think the

> questions are great and thanks for asking them.

>

> Thank

> Rita

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rita,

The inflatable chamber helps our kids because at 1.3 ATA using air, it

increases the total level of blood oxygen by 50% (all of this increase

essentially occurring in the blood serum- red bloods cells go from 97% to

100% of capacity, thus cannot handle much more increase).

This, of course is the exact physiological change (but, at a different

dosage) that occurs when we give our kids 100% O2 at 1.5 ATA. (O2 in blood

serum)

The serum bound O2 seems to be the initiator of a number of different

physiological changes, including signalling DNA to activity. Growth

hormones are released, molecular O2 is diffused past blockages, capillaries

begin to grow more aggressively, etc.

While I know of no studies conducted using the inflatable chambers, I

believe a good assessment is that it is approx. 50% as effective for our

kids in observable clinical changes / results. (But, I think someone could

make the argument that with brain injuries slower recovery is better; but,

I would not agree with that in this specific case.)

Thus, if HBOT works, air MUST work - only it is a less effective dose.

I hope this helps!

Ed Nemeth

At 07:43 AM 6/29/2003, you wrote:

>As a parent of a son with CP who has done 125 HBO treatments. I would love

>to hear these answers. I have always wonder how these inflatable chambers

>could help my son. I was told at several conference that I have went to

>that had

>the chambers on display that they do not use medical oxygen. So I have to

>ask

>how can they help our kids by using the air that is floating around us? I

>have been to the 2 HBO conferences and have heard from lots of people. So I

>really would like to hear from you all that have these chambers at

>home. I think

>the questions are great and thanks for asking them.

>

>Thank

>Rita

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

For about 3 weeks I have been trying to find ;out which branch o;f the

military has determined that it could make use of the inflatable chambers in

Iraq.

I was told in a phone conversation with one of our group that 60 portable

chambers were transported to Iraq by the U.S. Air Force. USAF would be the

logical transport. I have not been able to find which branch of the military

saw

potential benefit and bought up the 60 chambers as well as the 10 litter

oxygenators, one if presume for each portable. A Navy official told me it was

not

the Navy, that The Navy however Navy does have quite a number aboard some

larger ships at sea. But no portables such; ;as the Gamow bags. I ; am still

in telephone discussions with Army officials who are trying to help me in this

research. Various members of our group have speculated on the purpose of the

Gamow bags and 10 litter oxygenators.

I downloaded an August IHA (International Hyperbaric Association Newsletter,

August 2002 which; had as its first item sending 30 Gamow bags to Afghanistan

to help deal with AMS Air Mountain Sickness for troops fighting at some of the

high altitudes in that country. I had heard of these being used by sportsmen

in the high; altitudes. But this does add up for Iraw which is fairly flat

terrain. except perhaps in some of the northern areas.

A number of people have speculated in what the 60 portables may needed for in

Iraw. Possible defense in the event of biochemical warfare and for the

obvious possible requirements in wound care, burns amputations, and any of many

battlefield wounds.

It would be ever so helpful to the entire Hyperbaric field if open

discussions could be held, and the potential needs in Iraq or elsewhere.

Supporters of

pressurized oxygen, regardless of the type of chamber still have amounting to

climb. There needs to be absolute candor on the potential uses of pressurized

oxygen and the ingenuity of so many American capable ;of building the

chambers to help people who can benefit fro;m the use of oxygen.

Let all of us hope and prey that Dr. Neubauer's upcoming conference will

provide us the answers, A considerable portion of the conference is focused on

portable chambers. Manson

[Guest guest]

Darin,

First of all, when you make a statement you need to know what you are

talking about. That includes saying that I was against inflatable chambers.

I have never been against inflatable chambers and have never said I was

against them. I have questioned their effectiveness because someone needs

to. I have been concerned about you and other parents being sold a bill of

goods because someone needs to be concerned. I did not get into hyperbarics

for fortune or fame. I got into it because of a grandson who was born

without a heartbeat or without breathing. I knelt on the floor in the

hospital hallway with my wife and prayed for life for my grandson and God

granted it. He got his first heartbeat after our first prayer. He recieved

his first breath of life after our second prayer. Not the medical

profession, they are the ones who almost took it, but God restored it. We

were left with a brain injured grandson. I watched my daughter get up all

hours of the night and almost drop from exhaustion from caring for a son who

cried almost constantly, who rarely slept for over an hour, and finally at

one year old began sleeping for 2 hours until he was 2 years old. He

recieved his first HBOT treatment. My wife had a retracted eardrum from

pressurizing too fast and we saw many shortcomings but my grandson slept all

night for the first time in his life, and he held his head up by himself for

the first time, and he began smiling regularly for the first time, and he

lifted his arm to wave at his " Poppa " (that's me) for the first time. He

had even more improvements after the second round of therapy. My daughter

becan smiling again, the black lines and puffy bags left her eyes and she

became a beautiful vibrant mother again.

You know what it took to get HBOT for Garrett? First, heard about it

and had to convince me to investigate it more. I was convinced it was

something else to get parents to part with their money because it was so

expensive. And it was not recognized. And insurance or Medicaid would not

pay for it. And all the usual crap everyone puts up with. After talking

with parents and hearing the results, the fundraising began. Why did it

have to be so expensive? We raised the money. I was getting ready to sell

my 57 Chevy Belaire to pay for them if I had to but we raised it. Nothing

could have taken my 57 except my Grandson. Judy and had to stay in a

crowded Mc House but it got done. Next, a generous individual

from CA helped us get a second round of treatments at Monterey Hyperbarics.

, we still thank you for your generosity and help. If wasn't

there, had offered to help. offered to send us a free

hood but we had one from the first round. even provided us with a

place to stay. We had to raise money for other living expenses and plane

tickets, etc. but we saw more improvements. This all had a big influence

on how we decide to run Miracle Mountain.

Then, Miracle Mountain came to me one night in a dream. Before the dream,

I had thought about opening a center to make money. I could not find a

chamber I could afford and nothing worked out. But then came the dream,

clear as day. I woke up and I knew what I had to do. I had a long talk

with God. That was in Jan. of 2000. We were open and operating in April

of 2000. Those who are familiar with what it takes to open a chamber from

scratch know what an amazing feat this was. It was done throught the power

of God and Prayer. Do not even begin to give me credit, it belongs to God.

Since opening, we have gone through many trials. Accusations.

Inspections. Regulations. News reporters. A jealous medical

profession. The list goes on. But we have done over 8000 treatments.

We have a 1/8 scale railroad for the kids to ride on as well as specially

trained ponies provided by PPL. We offer several different therapies to go

with hbot. And I am proud to say, we have NEVER SAID NO TO A CHILD BECAUSE

THE PARENTS WERE UNABLE TO PAY. NEVER!!!!!

We have looked at every possible way to see children and adults with brain

injury recieve hbot regardless of ability to pay. We will continue looking.

The inflatable is a possibility. There are many questions to be answered.

We are looking at those questions. We have been in constant discussions

with the manufacturers. They have been very cooperative and I truly believe

they want to do it right and without misrepresentation. Before, I had my

doubts. I have come to one conclusion. I see some very real possibilities

but I am very concerned about whether a victim of brain injury will recieve

the same chance using the inflatable as a regular chamber. What is the best

way? Which is the best direction? Simply put, I do not want to see them

shortchanged, which is something a parent would not knowingly do. So

parents need answers, don't they.

There is something you should know about me by now. I do not pull my

punches. I don't care what you or anyone else thinks about me if it is

going to help get the task accomplished. I am not into the political games

I see played all the time on these lists. I am not into popularity

contests, being a hero, being an expert, etc. I tell it the way I see it.

Sometimes that is good, sometimes not so good. Sometimes, I come across a

little brash or harsh as many of us do. I know we would all think different

about each other if we met in person. You cannot see a personality on a

list such as this. Maybe I will get to meet many of you personally in

Florida.

All I want are answers to questions. Bonnie is 8, she took her first steps

last year at Miracle Mountain when she was 7. She ran her first steps this

year at MM at age 8. What would have happened if I could have sent her

home with an inflatable to use during the year? is 7, this is

his 4th trip to MM. He is very severe. The only improvements that has

been seen with was when he came to MM for HBOT. What would have

happened if he would have had an inflatable chamber to use between trips?

Or, how much improvement would have been seen with just an inflatable?

Darin, you emailed me with some questions at 9:14 AM this morning. Without

waiting for answers, you then sent this statement to the list at 9:22 AM.

In the first place it is not your place to cast doubt on anyone asking

questions. In the second place, it is not your place to question my

integrity and I have never done anything to have it questioned.

If anyone does not want to answer the questions that is their right. But

until such crap as this comes to a stop, we will not get answers. Why do

we keep stabbing ourselves in the feet?

Sorry, folks. This is just one of my little temper tantrums which I

occassionally throw because of frustration, aggravation, etc. You know, all

the things that try to get in the way when you try to accomplish something.

We all need to throw them once in a while to keep the fight in us going.

I do hope as many of you as possible will answer the questions and tell me

everything you can, both positive and negative. Information is vital to

fact finding. Fact finding is vital to helping anyone in need.

By the way, the inflatable chamber on Ebay was originally sold to the owners

for $30,000 (I think that was Canadian) and they never recieved the

mattress. Oxyhealth would not have wanted this to happen. We should be

organized enough for it not to happen. The gentleman has MS and gets so

upset when trying to use the chamber because of being taken, he refuses to

use it. With proper knowledge and organization this will not happen. I am

hoping there will be further investigation into this matter.

Hartsoe

www.miraclemountain.org

Re: [MedicaidforHDOT] inflatable chambers

> In a message dated 6/29/2003 12:57:09 AM Central Daylight Time,

> rhartsoe@... writes:

>

> > This is for those who have the inflatable chambers. Would you mind

> > answering a private questionaire for me? These questions could be very

important to

> > a lot of people in the future. If you would answer the following

questions

> > and email them to me at

> > rhartsoe@...

> >

> > 1.) Did you do regular hbot before using the inflatable chamber? How

> > many?

> >

> > 2.) How would you compare the improvements of the first 40 or more

sessi

> > ons in a regular chamber to the following treatments in the inflatable?

> >

> > 3.) What protocol do you use at home with the inflatable, i.e.: how

often,

> > how long, etc.

> >

> > 4.) Do you introduce oxygen and if so what method do you use, please

give

> > details.

> >

> > 5.) If you use oxygen, do you use an oxygen monitor for the levels

inside

> > the chamber?

> >

> > 6.) How many sessions have you done in the portable so far? Over how

> > long?

> >

> > 7.) Did you recieve any type training to begin? Have you taken any

type

> > training in hyperbarics?

> >

> > 8.) Would you be willing to contribute information to a study?

> >

> > 9.) What are your most positive feelings on the inflatable chamber

that

> > you have?

> >

> > 10.) What are your most negative feelings on the inflatable chamber

that

> > you have?

> >

> > Please give as many details as possible. Also, what would you like to

see

> > different? Would you be willing to answer additional questions?

> >

> > NOTE: All replies are confidential. Identities of anyone sharing

> > information will be protected.

> >

> > The symposium in FL may be even more interesting than we thought. There

may

> > soon be some good news for those with brain injury. Please help by

sharing

> > your info with us.

> >

> > Hartsoe

> > rhartsoe@...

> > www.miraclemountain.org

> >

> >

> >

>

> Untill this was explained in more detailed form I would sugest everyone

not

> to anwser and of these questions. No offense but some of the

questions

> you have asked are a little concerning. You at one time were very against

these

> types of chambers. Now you are asking questions of this nature which

causes a

> little concern. Why you would be so interested now. I answered some

of

> your questions before but when this email came out the wording and

questions

> caused great concern.

>

> Darin

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Darin,

who do you consider the experts that can answer these questions? I have

been unable to find the answers. So you think I would use the information

in a negative way? And how would that be? As a matter of information, this

is research. Now, what did you say it took to be considered an expert in a

science that is so new with so few answers? Is there an inflatable

hyperbaric college that I don't know about?

Re: [MedicaidforHDOT] inflatable chambers

> Rita , and the group I did not mean to sound rude by saying I think

> that he needed to explain why he was asking these questions and we needed

> further explanation but you have to understand there are people in this

feild that

> would use this information in a negative way. It needs to be left up to

the

> experts in the feild that is working on reasearch. The experts in the

feild can

> answer you questions if you ahave questions pertaining to the portable

> Chambers.

> Darin

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Greetings Mr. Manson,

After our experience with the commander of the USAF School of

Hyperbaric Medicine 3 years ago, I have to think that they are

committed to keeping any HBOT study or usage a secret. They don't

want it known, or I would think it would be easy for you, with your

connections and abilities, to find out. I'll bet someone in the UHMS

knows, but has been sworn to secrecy.

With Much Respect,

Marlena Orndorff

> ,

>

> For about 3 weeks I have been trying to find ;out which branch o;f

the

> military has determined that it could make use of the inflatable

chambers in Iraq.

> I was told in a phone conversation with one of our group that 60

portable

> chambers were transported to Iraq by the U.S. Air Force. USAF

would be the

> logical transport. I have not been able to find which branch of

the military saw

> potential benefit and bought up the 60 chambers as well as the 10

litter

> oxygenators, one if presume for each portable. A Navy official

told me it was not

> the Navy, that The Navy however Navy does have quite a number

aboard some

> larger ships at sea. But no portables such; ;as the Gamow bags.

I ; am still

> in telephone discussions with Army officials who are trying to help

me in this

> research. Various members of our group have speculated on the

purpose of the

> Gamow bags and 10 litter oxygenators.

>

> I downloaded an August IHA (International Hyperbaric Association

Newsletter,

> August 2002 which; had as its first item sending 30 Gamow bags to

Afghanistan

> to help deal with AMS Air Mountain Sickness for troops fighting at

some of the

> high altitudes in that country. I had heard of these being used by

sportsmen

> in the high; altitudes. But this does add up for Iraw which is

fairly flat

> terrain. except perhaps in some of the northern areas.

>

> A number of people have speculated in what the 60 portables may

needed for in

> Iraw. Possible defense in the event of biochemical warfare and for

the

> obvious possible requirements in wound care, burns amputations, and

any of many

> battlefield wounds.

>

> It would be ever so helpful to the entire Hyperbaric field if open

> discussions could be held, and the potential needs in Iraq or

elsewhere. Supporters of

> pressurized oxygen, regardless of the type of chamber still have

amounting to

> climb. There needs to be absolute candor on the potential uses of

pressurized

> oxygen and the ingenuity of so many American capable ;of building

the

> chambers to help people who can benefit fro;m the use of oxygen.

>

> Let all of us hope and prey that Dr. Neubauer's upcoming conference

will

> provide us the answers, A considerable portion of the conference

is focused on

> portable chambers. Manson

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

-perhaps you have been looking in the wrong places.

- clinical hyperbarics is not a new field.

It started in Holland, some forty years ago.

There is a lot of literature out there both in English and in other exotic

languages,

like German, Russian, Italian, Spanish, and then some.

Most practitioners have been keeping the practical knowledge for themselves, for

disparate reasons.

Others have been constrained by peer pressure, slanted associations and groups,

and

inane regulations, for a diverse set of reasons.

-There is this Maimonides University, in Buenos Aires, Argentina, an officially

recognized institution,

and quite reputable. We are affiliated with several universities in the U.S.

and Europe,

and our faculty boasts outstanding professors and advisors from all over the

world.

We have two hyperbaric inflatables, among the other hyper and hypo barochambers,

perused for clinical and ambulatory treatments, both for diseased and healthy

patients,

for prevention and pre-conditioning in certain situations.

The CIMDept. of the Maimonides Medical School, through its Hyperbaric Medicine

Unit,

-jointly with military hyper and hypobaric facilities-

provides training in Spanish or in English

for civilian -or military- health personnel and caregivers,

and also does research in these matters.

-The important answers are there, since long, in my opinion and experience.

It is only a matter of willing to take the pain to gather it from diverse

sources, and then,

of choosing to listen, understand, and apply.

All of us see this all the time, isn't it?

The Symposium will be a great opportunity to share info, and to reach to

agreements.

-An heterogeneous array of separated factors is being unacceptably mixed

in these purportedly scientific discussions:

pressure, concentration, and their different units (PSI, mmHg, mBar), pO2, FiO2,

duration and frequency of sessions, air, oxygen, balloons, concentrators,

inflatables, OxyHealth, Gamow, monos, multiplaces, different treatments,

remedies,

business practices, slander and libel, and last but by no means least,

the Name...

-Chamber makers should know all about the technicalities of building them,

safety and effectiveness foremostly included.

Weren't you in contact with one or more of them?

, friend: this medium is not the best one to convey inflexions and

intentions.

You have been picking on the portables since a while, perhaps with the intention

of eliciting responses.

Your apparent attitude towards the foremost domestic makers of inflatable

chambers is less than friendly, though.

People cannot help but imagine that you had a hidden agenda,

or that you have/had a major problem with them.

What did you do, or think you are doing to them, that they almost found out?

Is it a crime to plan to build chambers?

In a competitive economy, there should be no conflict in honorable

competition...

Go ahead: do your math, risk your money, and have your portables made.

It will only benefit the field, the patients, parents, and hopefully, your

mission will be greatly expanded.

Nobody can produce enough chambers as to cover the immense lack of them,

worldwide,.

and a new one will be welcome by all.

The Chinese have already started producing them, too, as far as I have heard,

and there are portable models in England and in the Continent.

Why the continuing misunderstanding?

Best regards.

Ignacio

Ignacio Fojgel, M.D.

Maimonides University

Buenos Aires, Argentina

rhartsoe wrote:

> Darin,

> who do you consider the experts that can answer these questions? I have

> been unable to find the answers. So you think I would use the information

> in a negative way? And how would that be? As a matter of information, this

> is research. Now, what did you say it took to be considered an expert in a

> science that is so new with so few answers? Is there an inflatable

> hyperbaric college that I don't know about?

>

>

>

> Re: [MedicaidforHDOT] inflatable chambers

>

> > Rita , and the group I did not mean to sound rude by saying I think

> > that he needed to explain why he was asking these questions and we needed

> > further explanation but you have to understand there are people in this

> feild that

> > would use this information in a negative way. It needs to be left up to

> the

> > experts in the feild that is working on reasearch. The experts in the

> feild can

> > answer you questions if you ahave questions pertaining to the portable

> > Chambers.

> > Darin

> >>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Fojgel,

So, it seems you think I have the intention of building chambers? Or am I

reading your post wrong? In fact, I could read a lot of accusations into

your post but I will choose not to. Basically, I think you may mean that I

started out with a biased opinion and that would be absolutely correct.

However, I have looked at many factors and have come to the conclusion that

the inflatable chamber is beneficial and has its place. The question is,

where? In what capacity?

Since you are associated with a University with all the expert knowledge on

hyperbarics and inflatables, why not put up a web site in English so

everyone, including myself can truly see the studies and facts that you say

are available on the effectiveness of the inflatable compared to the

standard chamber using ambient air compared to 100% oxygen. They would be a

welcome site, indeed. Especially the studies and the info on the means used

to measure the differences in results. Why were these facts not readily

available when the Canadian study was done and why are they not the basis of

discussion and marketing of the inflatable chambers rather than the Canadian

study?

I apologize for my ignorance, but I am not associated with any university.

I do, however, have a desire to learn. So do many other parents who have

been considering different options for their brain injured children. I know

these facts could be a very helpful factor in decision making so why not put

them up in a format which is easy to read and understand?

As far as my contacts with inflatable manufacturers, to my knowledge there

are only 2 in the USA. I have been in contact with both of them and we have

been discussing my concerns along with the concerns of many parents who have

been providing me with comments and questions they would like answered. It

seems we are all on a quest to learn the facts.

The problem seems to be that every time someone questions anything they are

automatically out to get someone or do harm. I think it is time we all grow

up. All I am asking for is facts. I have tried to research using all the

search methods I know how to use. So you say the answers are there to

anyone who is willing to " to take the pain to gather it from diverse

sources, and then, of choosing to listen, understand, and apply. " I guess

some of us are just too dumb to know where to look at these diverse sources.

Maybe you can just do everyone a favor and take the time to reprint these

studies and save all of us a lot of time. We really appreciate your

willingness to help and know you will not mind doing this. These studies

that are available should be made public and thank you for bringing them to

our attention. We are anxious to see them.

Hartsoe

Re: [MedicaidforHDOT] inflatable chambers

> >

> > > Rita , and the group I did not mean to sound rude by saying I

think

> > > that he needed to explain why he was asking these questions and we

needed

> > > further explanation but you have to understand there are people in

this

> > feild that

> > > would use this information in a negative way. It needs to be left up

to

> > the

> > > experts in the feild that is working on reasearch. The experts in the

> > feild can

> > > answer you questions if you ahave questions pertaining to the portable

> > > Chambers.

> > > Darin

> > >>

>

>

>

> _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.

> Join the International Hyperbaric Medical Association

http://www.hyperbaricmedicalassociation.org/forms/Friends_of_IHMA_Join.pdf

>

> Unrestricted downloads of 50+ pdf files on HBOT efficacy

medicaid/files/ ,

HDO-documentation/files/ and

http://www.drneubauerhbo.com/papers.htm

>

> Download your state EPSDT program

http://www.hcfa.gov/medicaid/stateplan/Map.asp by doing a search on the word

" ameliorate " . State Medicaid websites

http://www.medi-cal.ca.gov/RelSites_Oth_States.asp . Medicaid waiver

programs: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/1029/medicaid.html

>

> Find a hyperbaric clinic http://www.netnet.net/mums/hbolist.htm

>

> HBOT can save billions of dollars and millions of heartaches. Subscribe to

by sending a blank email to

mailto:medicaid-subscribe

>

> Unsubscribe? Click here mailto:medicaid-unsubscribe

..

>

>

[Guest guest]

in no way did I mean to offend you. I hope you understand that I did

not do this or post that to make you look bad or imply that you were up to

something. These portable chambers are going through the same battle as the mono

place and the multi place chambers and there are a few select few that would

love to see them out of business. IM not saying that you are one of them. I just

felt it would have been better to explain why you were wanting this kind of

information. Maybe IM wrong and I was a little over reacting. I apologize. Some

feel there is no place for the portable. I really didn't know how you felt

and IM sorry if you felt I was judging you. I was not. I just feel these

chambers should get there fare chance to prove themselves as well. Hope you are

no

mad and we can still talk rationally.

Best regards,

Darin

[Guest guest]

Darin,

I am not mad or upset. Just like anyone, I occassionally go overboard from

fighting the battle, the same battle we are all fighting. I have quit

worrying about the enemy. They are weak and they are defeated. I compare

them to the Iraqi's who are still hiding and attacking like cowards and in

the process hurting their own people but will never be in power again. We

are free as long as we work together. If someone wants to take a popshot

at me, it's ok.

I know you along with other parents want what is best for their kids and

that is all that matters.

I believe the day is coming that you will be able to buy an inflatable

chamber, take it out of the box, read the instructions, and begin using it.

However, that day should not come until the t's are crossed and the i's are

dotted. This science is exact but the problem is we have no way of knowing

when it has reached that exact point.

Everytime I have brought up questions is not to cause problems or because I

am against the inflatable chamber but it is because questions need to be

answered. Yet everytime it happens, someone is offended and thinks I am

trying to harm the inf. chamber. If there were to be a potential problem,

we need to route it out through questions and answers. If none show up,

aren't you going to feel a lot safer putting your kid inside an inflatable

chamber? Or would you rather just say the hell with it, I am going to take

my chances and don't care? I don't think anyone feels that way. The more

questions I have asked the better I feel about the inflatable chamber,

especially the safety issues.

The main concern I have is comparing the efficacy of the inflatable to that

of the regular chamber with 100% oxygen. Of the answers I have recieved so

far, most have shown that the results were much better originally using 100%

O2 at 1.5 ATA. But all have continued to see good results using the

inflatable. Not all are totally happy using the bag who have not tried

regular hbot, even though all have seen improvements. This tells me the

inflatable chamber is definitely beneficial. It also tells me that maybe

the best regimen is to begin with regular hbot and continue with an

inflatable.

I still need more input from those of you with inflatable chambers who have

not responded to my questions.

Hartsoe

www.miraclemountain.org

Re: [MedicaidforHDOT] inflatable chambers

> in no way did I mean to offend you. I hope you understand that I

did

> not do this or post that to make you look bad or imply that you were up to

> something. These portable chambers are going through the same battle as

the mono

> place and the multi place chambers and there are a few select few that

would

> love to see them out of business. IM not saying that you are one of them.

I just

> felt it would have been better to explain why you were wanting this kind

of

> information. Maybe IM wrong and I was a little over reacting. I apologize.

Some

> feel there is no place for the portable. I really didn't know how you felt

> and IM sorry if you felt I was judging you. I was not. I just feel these

> chambers should get there fare chance to prove themselves as well. Hope

you are no

> mad and we can still talk rationally.

>

> Best regards,

> Darin

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for understanding . I guess I over reacted as well. I do not

have a portable chamber. But I had questions at first as well. But I have seen

some good benefits from these chambers. I can't deny that. But I know some of

the manufactures of these chambers and I really don't think they are out

there to hurt anyone. IM very hard headed and say things off the top of my head

without thinking sometimes. I know a lot of people are trying to shut them down.

Not everyone is as willing to go the extra mile to research for a better

cause. This field is ruthless and a cut throat field. You don't know who to

trust.

After all should it really be that way we are trying to help in my case

children and in others adults. I do believe that is why so many organizations

look

at Hyperbarics for these types of injures not to seriously. Thank you for

understanding and my apologies to you. IM glad the two of us can have

disagreements and still be friends. Thank you for understanding.

Darin