Guest guest Posted February 28, 1999 Report Share Posted February 28, 1999 and Raven, I have hypoglycemia, my blood sugar can drop down to a low of 49 3-4 hours after a meal and the symptoms are terrible, heart racing, pounding hard in the chest, anxiety, depression, etc. I think this is similar to what you all have been talking about with hyperthyroid symptoms. My blood tests, my thyroid hormones are in the normal range. I have been watching what I eat that contains a high sugar (or high glycemic) content, avoiding all sugar, white flour, sweet fruits and even root vegetables. I am currently eating beef (usually liver) , poultry, fish and low carb meals (whole grains beans, nuts vegetables). Several times, after three days of skimping on meat (and fat), even though IM eating a lot of beans (source of protein, as protein is supposed to slow absorption of carb sugars and avoid sugar plummeting and hypo symptoms), I get hypo symptoms. This has repeated it self several times, so I am sure of the correlation. I had the hair analyses done, said that based on my scores compared to others that I was likely to suffer from problems with: Allergies, Anxiety, Anemia, Insomnia, Fatigue, Thymus(Overactive), Depression, Allergies(Food), Emotional Sensitivity and Glucose Intolerance. It also said I had a low sodium/potassium ratio, high aluminum levels, above normal on my calcium (very high in calcium) and magnesium levels, low in iron, copper, manganese, chromium and selenium, low in nickel, cobalt, molybdenum, and lithium. It also stated I had adrenal exhaustion and to avoid heavy exercise so not to run down my adrenals and rather let them build up (this is hard as I love to go jogging). Well, I know I suffer from all of these except I am unsure of Allergies and I don't believe I have Anemia. The pamphlet said that even though blood test levels show normal ranges I could still have an overactive thyroid. Are there other tests that are more conclusive than just the chem test, was the hair analyses it? Also, It says that when supplementing some minerals that are high, believe it or not, they could be treated with more of the same mineral and that just supplementing some minerals alone because they are low does not come out raising the levels of the that mineral necessarily. Another question, this one for . Can the problem of not enough protein be caused by poor absorption of protein rather than just a deficiency of it in the diet? Raven, I noticed when you were talking about how the uniodized salt gave you a reaction, but you also said that you ate a can of peaches at night. Most cans of peaches contains high fructose corn syrup added and I believe you could have been having a low blood sugar response after eating that sweet. I want to get you guys to open up your minds to any other possibilities so that you don't miss anything in your directness toward every problem stemming from the thyroid. I can be totally wrong but I thought Id at least interject that thought so I could get your brain juices flowing. Let me know what you think. Gian ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 1999 Report Share Posted February 28, 1999 , My major supplement has Iodine in it, so I will wait a little longer before I try salt again. My multi vitamin has 10mcg in it, so I'll take a little more copper for a while and start the PABA and calcium and magnesium and bring all the others up to your totals. I will see what happens and let you know. thanks again Raven ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 1999 Report Share Posted March 1, 1999 Gian, Please tell us anything that might help I'm always open to new thoughts even if it dose'nt look like it. I'v tryed so many things and will try many more untill I've won. I don't like this thyroid problem and would like to see what well feels like again. I will try anything once just to see what helps. This problem has robbed me of my youth and has changed my whole life. I once built log houses for people all over the USA and loved my work very much now things are differant. I will not stop untill this is fixed. Raven GianRubino@... wrote: and Raven, I have hypoglycemia, my blood sugar can drop down to a low of 49 3-4 hours after a meal and the symptoms are terrible, heart racing, pounding hard in the chest, anxiety, depression, etc. I think this is similar to what you all have been talking about with hyperthyroid symptoms. My blood tests, my thyroid hormones are in the normal range. I have been watching what I eat that contains a high sugar (or high glycemic) content, avoiding all sugar, white flour, sweet fruits and even root vegetables. I am currently eating beef (usually liver) , poultry, fish and low carb meals (whole grains beans, nuts vegetables). Several times, after three days of skimping on meat (and fat), even though IM eating a lot of beans (source of protein, as protein is supposed to slow absorption of carb sugars and avoid sugar plummeting and hypo symptoms), I get hypo symptoms. This has repeated it self several times, so I am sure of the correlation. I had the hair analyses done, said that based on my scores compared to others that I was likely to suffer from problems with: Allergies, Anxiety, Anemia, Insomnia, Fatigue, Thymus(Overactive), Depression, Allergies(Food), Emotional Sensitivity and Glucose Intolerance. It also said I had a low sodium/potassium ratio, high aluminum levels, above normal on my calcium (very high in calcium) and magnesium levels, low in iron, copper, manganese, chromium and selenium, low in nickel, cobalt, molybdenum, and lithium. It also stated I had adrenal exhaustion and to avoid heavy exercise so not to run down my adrenals and rather let them build up (this is hard as I love to go jogging). Well, I know I suffer from all of these except I am unsure of Allergies and I don't believe I have Anemia. The pamphlet said that even though blood test levels show normal ranges I could still have an overactive thyroid. Are there other tests that are more conclusive than just the chem test, was the hair analyses it? Also, It says that when supplementing some minerals that are high, believe it or not, they could be treated with more of the same mineral and that just supplementing some minerals alone because they are low does not come out raising the levels of the that mineral necessarily. Another question, this one for . Can the problem of not enough protein be caused by poor absorption of protein rather than just a deficiency of it in the diet? Raven, I noticed when you were talking about how the uniodized salt gave you a reaction, but you also said that you ate a can of peaches at night. Most cans of peaches contains high fructose corn syrup added and I believe you could have been having a low blood sugar response after eating that sweet. I want to get you guys to open up your minds to any other possibilities so that you don't miss anything in your directness toward every problem stemming from the thyroid. I can be totally wrong but I thought Id at least interject that thought so I could get your brain juices flowing. Let me know what you think. Gian --Click Here For Free File Storage!-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 1999 Report Share Posted March 1, 1999 hello Gian and everyone, Do you think there could be a relationship between Blood Sugar levels and thyroid problems. My blood sugar was around 90 when last tested and my thyroid levels are *normal*. However, I do often have symptoms similar to Hypoglycemia -- low blood sugar. My thyroid is Hypothyroid. Somehow I feel Thyroid and Diabetes are related though I don't know why or how. --kathleen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 1999 Report Share Posted March 1, 1999 Hello Kathleen, Everyone, This has to do with thyroid everyone so bear with the Sugar stuff for a bit OK. Yes, this is why I wrote my last letter. Low Blood Sugar or Hypoglycemia is caused by an overwhelming amount of Insulin production in response to a carbohydrate meal. Why I think there is a connection to thyroid symptoms is .... the insulin in your blood will become very high in response to carbohydrate meals. If your cells were healthy, insulin would not shoot up so high. Because of repeated blood sugar swings from sweets, processed foods like white bread (which shoot the blood sugar up higher than it naturally would go on whole grain products), the insulin receptors in the cells get weakened by constant abuse. Insulin is a very important hormone in that it regulates many nutrients, etc., enabling them to enter the cell, like glucose. Faulty insulin receptors at each cell get so hard to open ( " rusty door syndrome " ) after abuse that they don't allow normal amounts of glucose into the cell. So, the pancreas makes up for it by releasing more and more insulin until that glucose gets its but in there!!! Along with glucose, there are other things insulin allows into the cells from the blood stream. OK, here is where medical science stops and my own thoughts begin. I think that because these receptors are faulty they aren't allowing nutrients to get into cells, thus causing our vitamin mineral deficiencies, sodium potassium, copper zinc, etc. All right, all that is fine and dandy but how do we " cure this problem. " Get the faulty receptors to work again like they did when we were new, lol. Well, I think that first we have to find what it is that created this problem in the first place, and eliminate it. What I mean is, stop causing blood sugar spikes by consumption of, IM sorry I know you'll hate me but, I m gonna say it anyway - fruit juices (natural fruit w/the fiber doesn't cause such sugar spiking) , sugary treats (you would have to eat like 30 feet of sugar cane to get like a cup of sugar, and you're not getting all of the nutrients found in the sugar cane to metabolize the sugar so the body steals some from the blood stream-how do you like them apples!!Also anything else that causes sugar spiking, honey, etc. Now I know what some will say, " that stuff in small amounts is not going to hurt anyone> " Well, your probably right, but who only takes in small amounts of sugar and processed bread, few compared to most. I mean our consumption of the stuff is huge in this country. You find it in almost everything on the grocery shelf, in many different forms ofcourse. I mean there is high fructose corn syrup, there is sugar, there is maltose, there is lactose, there is fructose, the list goes on. Reason said lactose is that as most Americans reduce fat by choosing to buy " lowfat or skim milk " we concentrate the milk sugar. Well, I think I've said plenty for today. My main point is that faulty insulin reception is at the root of all this. For those of you who have heart episodes, racing heart, etc. I want you to read this article I got on the Internet. Its not too lengthy and its very good. Enjoy. Gian Nutrition Science News: April 1997 DOCTOR'S INSIGHT Hypoglycemia's Hormonal Origins By N. Podell, M.D. Most nutritionists believe that low blood sugar three or four hours after eating is a frequent cause of irritability, anxiety, fatigue, heart palpitations, shakiness, headaches, hunger or mental fogginess. They call this syndrome " hypoglycemia. " Most mainstream physicians, however, don't believe hypoglycemia is a genuine condition. They cite research showing that most people who develop a hypoglycemic-type reaction actually have fairly normal blood sugar levels at the time of their symptoms. There is an explanation for this paradox. Hypoglycemia is real, but low blood sugar is not its immediate cause. Hypoglycemic symptoms such as fatigue and irritability result from an overabundance of the hormones adrenaline and cortisol (a close cousin of cortisone). Thus, a more apt explanation of hypoglycemia may be too much adrenaline and cortisol rather than too little blood sugar. The evidence for this explanation appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association more than 13 years ago. Sadly, few physicians make reference to this important research or even know of its existence. Scientists from the University of land, s Hopkins University and the National Institutes of Health identified 19 people who had typical hypoglycemic symptoms several hours after eating. They gave each person a high-sugar meal as part of a glucose tolerance test. However, unlike previous researchers who measured subjects' blood sugar every hour or half hour, they measured blood sugar second-by-second through a catheter placed in a vein. The difference between continuous and hourly blood sugar was crucial. Hypoglycemic symptoms developed in these 19 subjects almost exactly at the point when their blood sugar was lowest--several hours after eating. Pinpointing it to this exact moment led researchers to the adrenaline/cortisol connection. Previous studies that relied on hourly blood sugar measurements were more likely to miss this point on the blood sugar curve, and hence, miss the hormone connection. It is more than coincidence that when blood-sugar was lowest, hypoglycemic symptoms began, since the bottom of the sugar curve is also the moment that the body's antistress hormones (adrenaline and cortisol) change drastically. Most likely, it is these hormonal events and the chain reactions they generate that comprise the actual cause of hypoglycemic symptoms. The High-Sugar Response We can understand these physiological events by examining the normal response to a high-sugar meal. People without hypoglycemic symptoms show a quick rise in blood glucose soon after eating sugar. In response, the pancreas releases insulin to drive blood sugar down. Normally, insulin continues to decrease blood sugar three or four hours after eating--until it falls below the fasting level but is still within an adequate range. Precisely at this lowest point of the blood sugar curve, the adrenal glands release a small jolt of adrenaline. Adrenaline increases blood sugar, raising it back to pretest baseline levels without resulting in undesirable symptoms. The subjects with hypoglycemic symptoms showed a similar pattern, but with major differences. Their blood sugar levels fell lower after three or four hours, to an average lowest blood-sugar level of 57 mg per deciliter vs. 72 mg per deciliter for the controls. This distinction is statistically, but not always clinically, significant. The real disparity was the dramatic change in the 19 test subjects' adrenaline and cortisol levels. Adrenaline blood levels at the bottom of the glucose curve surged by more than 1,200 percent--quadruple the increase seen among controls. Surging adrenaline has the effect of drinking three cups of coffee, stimulates the body in many ways, and can produce all the various symptoms of a hypoglycemic reaction. Hypoglycemics also produced a marked increase in cortisol, while the normal subjects did not. Cortisol, which raises blood sugar, may also result in depression, fatigue, anxiety and loss of muscle tone. Why are hypoglycemics vulnerable to this hormonal explosion? And why does it occur precisely at the bottom of the blood- glucose curve? The most reasonable explanation is that adrenaline and cortisol are the body's way of preventing falling blood-sugar levels from dropping through the floor. Sugar is the brain's main source of fuel, and very low blood sugar, such as 30 mg per deciliter, can cause irreversible brain damage. The bottom line is that the agitating side effects caused by adrenaline and cortisol are the price hypoglycemics pay to prevent a too-low blood-sugar level. But why do hypoglycemics require such heroic hormonal labors to keep blood sugar in line? We don't really know the answer, but genetics, nutrition, and physical and emotional stresses probably contribute. Animal studies show that blood-sugar instability increases when stress occurs. It's also known that stress increases hypoglycemic symptoms among humans. Hypoglycemics who moderate their lifestyles and practice stress-management skills can often take more liberties with their diet without paying a price. Although this study updates our understanding of how eating sugar induces hypoglycemic symptoms, the basic dietary recommendation remains similar to that described by Carlton Fredericks and other nutrition pioneers--eat frequent meals of moderate size that are low in sugar and reasonably high in protein. Strictly limit caffeine and alcohol. Combined with stress management, lifestyle moderation and a survey for unrecognized illness, this regimen, delivers the best long-term results. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Podell, M.D., is clinical professor of family medicine at the UMDNJ- Wood Medical School in New Brunswick, N.J. He is the author of Patient Power: How to Protect Yourself Against Medical Error (Fireside, 1996). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- BIBLIOGRAPHY Chalew, S., McLaughlin, J., & Mersey, J. " The use of the plasma epinephrine response in the diagnosis of idiopathic postprandial syndrome, " JAMA, 251: 612-15, Feb. 3, 1984. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Copyright 1997, New Hope Communications. Any duplication of this document by electronic or other means is strictly prohibited. If you have any comments or questions regarding the information or web site itself, please contact webmaster@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 1999 Report Share Posted April 25, 1999 john and all, I felt like I was getting better and swelling in the thyroid had gone down, but now the thyroid looks like it is swollen again. I have been taking :Iodine, kelp 2600 mcg Copper 7 mcg Selennium 450 mcg Iron 27 mlg I am also taking the other supplements you suggested. I listed the above as I thought maybe the proportions might be off. It is hard to get the exact numbers as mult. vitamins havea a set amount and then you have to get individual minerals that have their set amount. Thanks Shirley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 1999 Report Share Posted October 24, 1999 Hi Sheri and Everyone, There are a lot of studies done in countries that did not iodize their salt showing that subsequent to adding iodine to the salt the rate of hyperthyroidism goes up substantially (3-7 times). I think that there are a lot of people who have all the requisite mineral deficiencies to go hyper, but don't because of the limited amount of iodine that they are consuming. Once they start consuming a large amount of iodine, then their thyroids are able to produce excessive amounts of hormone and hyperT results. Many people might revert to normal once the iodine intake is reduced, but for many this event may tip the scales toward hyperT so that reducing iodine won't cause the thyroid to normalize. The body is very efficient at storing iodine and it may take many months to recreate an iodine deficiency. Restoring the normal levels of many minerals is necessary for the normalization of thyroid function. Also since hyperthyroidism increases the metabolic rate of the body which increases the consumption of minerals, hyperT tends to preserve itself. It's difficult to replenish the minerals without special care and supplementation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 Hi , You might want to read an article by Dr. Noel Rose of s Hopkins, " Linking Iodine with Autoimmune Thyroiditis, " Environmental Helath Perspectives, Oct. 1999, 107(5); 749-752 Also check out the German Commission E Herbal Monographs. They state that iodine in amounts over 150 mcg daily are to be avoided by individuals with autoimune hyperthyroidism. Iodine presents a paradox in Graves' disease. While it doesn't take much to trigger autoimmune hyperthyroidism, very high amounts as in saturated solution of potassium iodide (SSKI or Lugol's solution) inhibit the release of thyroid hormone from the gland as well as thyroid hormone synthesis in the body. That's why SSKI is used in the emergency room to treat thyroid storm. However, due to the Wolff-Chakoff effect, the effects are temporary. Which is why SSKI was put on the backburner by conventional medicine despite being the only substance available for treating hyperthyroidism for many years. Today it's still used by naturopaths in carefully regulated doses, and I highly recommend it when amounts over 6 grams are used. The key here is saturated solutions. However, dietary iodine in amounts greater than 150 mcg daily is a known trigger in the development of autoimmune hyperthyroidism. Perhaps your hyperthyroidism didn't have an autoimmune origin and iodine didn't affect it. Only 80% of all cases of hyperthyroidism are caused by Graves' disease. Also, in autoimmune hypothyroidism, amounts of iodine greater than 1000mcg (amounts found in the average fast food diet) are known to exacerbate symptoms of hypothyroidism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 In a message dated 3/4/01 1:29:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, daisyelaine@... writes: << You might want to read an article by Dr. Noel Rose of s Hopkins, " Linking Iodine with Autoimmune Thyroiditis, " Environmental Helath Perspectives, Oct. 1999, 107(5); 749-752 Also check out the German Commission E Herbal Monographs. They state that iodine in amounts over 150 mcg daily are to be avoided by individuals with autoimune hyperthyroidism. >> I understand that this is the current information out there, but I am also quite confident that this information is just as wrong as most of the information " out there " on hyperthyroidism. The authors of these studies do not appear to me to show any understanding the relationship between copper and iodine or any understanding that the effects of iodine they are observing only occur in copper deficient animals. The animal model that they are studying, the nonobese diabetic (NOD)-H2(h4) mouse, can probably be demonstrated to have a copper deficiency. Copper is essential for insulin production so these mice probably have a genetic disturbance in the ability to absorb or utilize copper and this is the basis of their diabetes. Also note that these mice are nonobese, which is what we see in hyperthyroidism--copper deficient animals tend to be thinner than copper adequate animals. Copper deficiency is not the only way to become diabetic, but there is a good chance that this particular mouse is diabetic because of a genetic disturbance in copper metabolism. You also state, " Also, in autoimmune hypothyroidism, amounts of iodine greater than 1000mcg (amounts found in the average fast food diet) are known to exacerbate symptoms of hypothyroidism. " Following is an article I wrote in April, 1999, about the reason for this and my thinking on this hasn't changed since then, with one exception (that iodine most likely has other functions in the body besides thyroid hormone production). My belief is that iodine will only exacerbate hypothyroidism when selenium (or some other essential nutrient) is deficient. When people say that iodine is a trigger for autoimmune disease, you have to consider that iodine is an essential nutrient. It sounds very unlikely to me that an essential nutrient in a normal physiological amount will cause disease. I think it's safe to assume that any time an essential nutrient is observed to increase disease symptoms, there is more to the story: most likely, at least one other nutrient must be deficient and it is this deficiency (and not a normal amount of an essential nutrient) which is the prime cause of the disease. Here is the article: Interactions between selenium and iodine April 27, 1999    Selenium and iodine are two minerals which are critically important in the proper functioning of the thyroid. While the importance of iodine has been known a long time, the importance of selenium has only been discovered and explored since 1990. Much research is presently being conducted on the functions of these two minerals in thyroid function and it is becoming clear that there is an interaction between the two. Iodine has a seemingly simple role in the thyroid-it is incorporated into the thyroid hormone molecule. A deficiency of iodine will cause hypothyroidism and if this is severe and occurs during pregnancy, the offspring will be mentally damaged and is called a cretin. Cretinism, or myxeodematous cretinism as it is sometimes called, is not only caused by an iodine deficiency, but is also influenced by a selenium deficiency. Iodine apparently has just one function in the body-in the thyroid. Selenium, on the other hand, performs many functions. At the beginning of the 1990s it was discovered that the deiodinase enzymes which convert T4 (thyroxin, the thyroid prohormone) into T3 (triiodothyronine, the cellularly active hormone) and also convert T3 into T2, thereby degrading it, are selenium enzymes (formed with the amino acid cysteine). This discovery has led to a lot of research studies on the effects of selenium, iodine, and their interactions. Selenium also performs other important roles in the body. The most important of these is probably as its role as the body's best antioxidant (anti-peroxidant). It performs this role as part of glutathione peroxidase (GSHPx or GPX). As part of GPX, selenium prevents lipids and fats from being peroxidized (oxidized), which literally means that it prevents fats from going rancid (this can be seen on your skin as " age spots " or " liver spots " (autopsies show that skin " liver spots " are accompanied by similar spots of peroxidized fats in the liver.) Therefore selenium protects all of the cellular membranes, which are made up of fats, from peroxidation. Peroxidation of cellular membranes reduces the ability of the membrane to pass nutrients including minerals and vitamins, so selenium deficiency is the first step toward developing the many problems caused by nutrient deficiencies. Wallach considers a selenium deficiency combined with high intake of vegetable oils (salad dressings, margarine, cooking oils) as the " quickest route to a heart attack and cancer. " It seems that the body uses a lot of selenium to protect the fats from peroxidation. Polyunsaturated fats which are hydrogenated or heated become the same as rancid fats and large amounts of selenium are then needed to protect the body. Consumption of these dietary fats can thus lead to a selenium deficiency. Selenium is also essential for the production of estrogen sulfotranserfase which is the enzyme which breaks down estrogen. A deficiency of selenium can thus lead to excessive amounts of estrogen, which may depress thyroid function, and also upset the progesterone-estrogen balance. Wallach also lists other effects of selenium deficiency: anemia (red blood cell fragility), fatigue, muscular weakness, myalgia (muscle pain), muscular dystrophy (white muscle disease in animals), cardiomyopathy (sudden death in athletes), heart palpitations, irregular heartbeat, liver cirrhosis, pancreatitis, Lou Gehrig's and Parkinson's diseases (mercury toxicity), Alzheimer's Disease (high intake of vegetable oil), sudden infant death syndrome (and possibly " breathlessness " in adults, jj), cancer, multiple sclerosis, and sickle cell anemia. Selenium is essential for the production of testosterone. A deficiency seems to be involved in osteoarthritis. I've found studies linking selenium deficiency to alopecia (hair loss) and to degeneration of the knee joint (seen in Kashin-Beck disease). Since selenium is necessary to produce GPX which is a major detoxifier of man-made and environmental toxins, selenium deficiency can lead to chemical and drug sensitivities. These are some of the non-thyroidal effects of selenium deficiency. The effects of selenium deficiency on thyroidal health is even more interesting. One study I read indicated that in experimental animals, selenium deficiency will increase T3 in the heart. This may be the reason that selenium deficiency causes heart palpitations and rapid heart beat, which is common in thyroid disease. While we've seen that selenium deficiency will interfere with T4 to T3 conversion and lead to functional hypothyroidism (low T3 phenomenon), selenium plays another vital role in the thyroid as part of GPX. During the production of thyroid hormone, hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is produced. H2O2 is important for the production of thyroid hormone, but excessive amounts lead to high production of thyroxin (T4) and also damage to the cells of the thyroid. GPX plays the extremely vital role of degrading H2O2 and thereby limiting hormone production and preventing damage to the thyroid cells. This seems to be the main way in which selenium protects the thyroid from sustaining damage which can lead ultimately to cancer. Without selenium, the thyroid gland becomes damaged and it is through this mechanism that the main selenium and iodine interactions are found. An iodine deficiency will cause goiter, an enlargement of the thyroid gland produced by the body in an attempt to increase hormone production from limited amount of iodine. Selenium deficiency increases the weight of the thyroid in experimental animals, and a selenium deficiency combined with an iodine deficiency leads to a further increase in thyroidal weight (bigger goiter). In African countries like Zaire, there are areas where both iodine and selenium are very scarce in the soil (these deficiencies seem to run parallel in most areas). Consequently a high percentage of the people have goiters and hypothyroidism. An experimental attempt was made to correct the selenium deficiency and the result was that the hypothyroidism was made WORSE in the hypos and it produced hypothyroidism in some euthroid subjects. This was entirely unexpected and the experimenters issued a warning about supplementing with selenium (and not iodine) when both deficiencies exist concurrently. The body has a compensatory mechanism to maintain T3 levels when iodine is deficient--it increases the production of the deiodinase Type I enzyme (DI-I). This is not a small increase, but has been shown in cattle to be an increase of 10-12 times. This increase in ID-I increases the conversion of the existing T4 to T3 to maintain T3 levels, but also increases the conversion of T3 to T2 (the degraded by-product of T3). Because of the iodine deficiency, T4 is not replenished and T3 ultimately decreases from the lack of sufficient T4 leading to a worsening of the hypothyroidism. This result is made worse by another phenomenon which hasn't been thoroughly studied: a selenium deficiency causes an iodine deficiency to get worse. This may be a protective adaptation by the body to limit the damage caused to the thyroid when selenium is deficient and iodine is adequate. Let's examine this part of the interaction. We've all heard that many doctors tell hypo patients, especially those with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, not to take iodine because it can aggravate their condition. The reason seems to be that selenium protects the thyroid gland from oxidative damage and this damage can increase significantly if iodine is supplemented. Taking iodine will increase thyroid hormone production and the production of H2O2 which damages the thyroidal cells. The lack of selenium prevents GPX from being able to protect the cells from this oxidative damage. While I doubt if most doctors realize why iodine should be restricted (it certainly seemed counter-intuitive to me at first), they have learned through experience that iodine can increase the thyroid damage in Hashimoto's. The information that selenium should be supplemented along with iodine is so new that most of them are unaware of it. Here's what we have: Studies have shown that if iodine is low, selenium must also be kept low to prevent the hypothyroidism from becoming worse (from increased DI-I and T4 depletion, as explained above.) So if both minerals are low, then the person is hypo and gets a goiter, but the damage to the thyroid is kept to a minimum. More severe problems happen when either selenium or iodine is high and the other is low. If selenium is high and iodine low, then T4 to T3 to T2 conversion is accelerated without T4 being replenished, leading to a worsening of the hypoT. If iodine is high and selenium is low, then H2O2 is not degraded by GPX. Since H2O2 drives the thyroid hormone production, then the thyroid over-produces thyroid hormone (Grave's hyperthyroidism), the thyroid is damaged from the oxidation by the H2O2, and the end result is that the damaged thyroid ultimately decreases activity and hypothyroidism results (Hashimoto's thyroiditis). This could explain the observed progression of Grave's to Hashimoto's. If a selenium deficiency causes an iodine deficiency, leaving you both selenium and iodine deficient, and supplementing with either selenium or iodine causes severe problems, then the only solution is to supplement both selenium and iodine simultaneously and gradually. Even then you could experience an immediate boost (from increased conversion of T4 to T3) with a subsequent letdown (lack of T4 production because of insufficient iodine or other necessary nutrient). You have to be prepared to ride out the tough times and continue increasing the selenium and iodine until those two deficiencies are corrected and the respective metabolic pathways are back working properly. Everything that I've read about selenium indicates that it is absolutely essential for proper functioning of the thyroid. A deficiency of selenium may lead to either hyperthyroidism or hypothyroidism. I've always wondered if high intake of selenium can lead to hyperthyroidism and finally found someone who did the experiment. They found that a high intake of selenium will not increase T4 production and lead to hyperthyroidism. If a person has hyperT, then it looks like taking selenium without iodine will result in a decrease in production of T4 (although there may be an initial transient increase in T4 to T3 conversion and hence higher T3). I would suggest to start with a small amount of selenium methionine (about 50 mcg) and gradually increase it. I cannot see any way that thyroid function can be normalized without selenium. For hypos the important message is that a selenium deficiency may cause an iodine deficiency, so that even though you are taking iodine you may not be assimilating it unless selenium is also being taken. This would explain how people can have iodine deficiencies even though salt and many foods have iodine added. Supplement with both iodine and selenium. I would recommend starting with 100 mcg of selenium and one kelp tablet and gradually work up to 400-600 mcg of selenium and 2-4 tablets of kelp. While I've found research on the interactions of iodine and selenium, there are two other minerals which need to be studied for their interactions with these two: zinc and copper. I found one study which examined the complex interactions of selenium, iodine, and zinc (there are interactions), but none which have looked at all four minerals in a 4 X 4 factorial design. Now that would be an interesting study! Hopefully someone will do that soon. I think one lesson from studying the interactions of selenium and iodine is that the interrelationships between minerals are very complicated. Supplementing with one or two can cause further problems. You have to make sure that you correct every deficiency. Health is built from a chain of nutrients and, like a chain, health cannot be accomplished if one nutrient is missing. Sometimes it's complicated putting the chain back together without running into problems (like supplementing with either selenium or iodine, but not both), but every deficiency has to be corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 So that means I can still keep on using salt like I always have? I was about to go and buy that horrible No-Salt stuff, but perhaps I don't need to do that, eh? > Hi Everyone, > I have been seeing more and more information about limiting iodine intake > during hyperthyroidism, trying to find lists of the iodine content of foods, > etc. Limiting iodine is NOT a good way to deal with hyperthyroidism. > If you read my hyperthyroidism story on www.iThyroid.com (still broken > but working on it), you'll see that I tried this strategy and found that it's > not a good one. Restricting iodine doesn't correct the real problem and will > eventually cause a goiter. > My best analogy is that restricting iodine is like squeezing your garden > hose to control the flow of water. It kinda works but it's very inefficient > and can cause problems. The volume control is poor, and you can never let go > of the hose. > It's not necessary or desirable to restrict iodine. By taking copper, > biotin, magnesium, and the other nutrients, you can restore the natural > controls that your thyroid is supposed to have. Once you get your copper > levels up, you can forget about iodine since it won't affect your thyroid > levels. If eating iodine causes an increase in thyroid hormone, that just > means that you need copper. Turn off the valve, don't just squeeze the hose. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 > So that means I can still keep on using salt like I always have? I > was about to go and buy that horrible No-Salt stuff, but perhaps I > don't need to do that, eh? Keep in mind that the average person in this society eats ten times as much salt as they need, and four times as much salt as their bodies can effectively handle. If you're going to use salt, I'd recommend ground sea salt, available from most health food stores. Me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 I like the ground sea salt and need to pick some up. I just put it in one salt shaker and non-iodized in the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 Mona, I highly recommend a sea salt called gourmet sea salt (Henry's Market). It tastes so much better than regular salt and has none of the " bad " iodine added that they use in regular salt. Penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 I use non-ionized salt and can not tell the difference. However, considering how much salt is in foods I no longer add salt to anything. Thinking about buying the ground sea salt. Mona Re: Iodine So that means I can still keep on using salt like I always have? I was about to go and buy that horrible No-Salt stuff, but perhaps I don't need to do that, eh? > Hi Everyone, > I have been seeing more and more information about limiting iodine intake > during hyperthyroidism, trying to find lists of the iodine content of foods, > etc. Limiting iodine is NOT a good way to deal with hyperthyroidism. > If you read my hyperthyroidism story on www.iThyroid.com (still broken > but working on it), you'll see that I tried this strategy and found that it's > not a good one. Restricting iodine doesn't correct the real problem and will > eventually cause a goiter. > My best analogy is that restricting iodine is like squeezing your garden > hose to control the flow of water. It kinda works but it's very inefficient > and can cause problems. The volume control is poor, and you can never let go > of the hose. > It's not necessary or desirable to restrict iodine. By taking copper, > biotin, magnesium, and the other nutrients, you can restore the natural > controls that your thyroid is supposed to have. Once you get your copper > levels up, you can forget about iodine since it won't affect your thyroid > levels. If eating iodine causes an increase in thyroid hormone, that just > means that you need copper. Turn off the valve, don't just squeeze the hose. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 GOOD IDEA! Re: Re: Iodine I like the ground sea salt and need to pick some up. I just put it in one salt shaker and non-iodized in the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 Thanks Penny....I need to pick up zinc too so guess I'll do both tomorrow night since I buy all my vitamins and produce at Henry's anyway. In the past I stayed away from sea salt because I thought it was high in iodine! Mona Re: Re: Iodine Mona, I highly recommend a sea salt called gourmet sea salt (Henry's Market). It tastes so much better than regular salt and has none of the " bad " iodine added that they use in regular salt. Penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 Hi : Once again, I find the information you are giving very helpful. I have a question for you. I have just gone throught a pregnancy. I had been hyper fro approximately 4 years, started with the supplements, and was in remission for approximately 6 months before I got pregnant. The pregnancy was relatively healthy, I had a few scares with premature labor, anemia, and a low TSH which they say is common during pregnancy. However, I didn't experience a return of hyper thyroidism. All of my other levels stayed in the normal range. Me and the baby are both healthy. However, I had been taking the prenatal vitamins, pretty regularly. I am currently nursing the baby. I was wondering, what should I do regarding vitamin supplementation at this point? Should I return to taking the supplements from the list for hyperthyroidism, even tho I am in remission? Should I take a multi vitamin, since I am nursing? Right now I haven't been taking anything and I feel that is probably wrong to do too. Plus taking too many vitamins makes me feel a little nauseous, so I would rather take less than more. I haven't experienced any return of the hyper signs, as of yet, the baby is two weeks old. The only thing I have experienced, is hot and cold flashes, which might just be a sign of wacko hormone levels. I also have seen alot more liver spots appear on my skin during this pregnancy, especially on my face. The article you sent on selenium difficiency was interesting to me, cause it would seem that maybe I am deficient in this mineral/vitamin. Can correcting a selenium difficiency reverse the signs, such as liver spots, or once you have them, do you have them for good? Any information that you have would be helpful, thank you so much. Sincerely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 In a message dated 4/4/2005 4:09:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lescase@... writes: I just purchased non-iodized Baleine Sea Salt. I think that just means they don't add iodine. Natural iodine should be there. We get iodine from salt water fish and seafood also. By the way, as far as I know, the only reason iodine started being added to salt was that people in Minnesota, Nebraska, etc were getting goiters from lack of iodine. This medical problem is what started the Mayo Clinic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Hi Iodized salt is not the best way to get your iodine. Should get enough from Kelp and seaweeds. If not you can get supplements of iodine from kelp. Amount needed probably varies. Go by your symptoms. Body temp. Energy. Weight. Too much you would probably feel jittery. I have been taking 2 to 4 whole kelp caps daily. KM lescase@... wrote: Hi O's !,, This has been discussed before,,, but I can remember the outcome... I just purchased non-iodized Baleine Sea Salt. After reading Kathy's article on the potential benefits of iodine in the diet... I'm wondering if we get enough from sea weed and fucus.... how much should one strive for per day? per week, whatever ??? and should we reconsider iodized salt ? Thanks for info ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 I wrote to NutritionData.com to find out about iodine levels. Unfortunately, they don't track iodine. Here is his response. Zoe iodine Is there any way to search for which foods have significant IODINE? Also, is there a way to determine what form the iodine comes in? Thanks. Zoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Hi Folks, I'm new here, here are a few foods that contain iodine... 1. Kelp (highest amount) 2. Other seaweeds 3. Garlic 4. Grapes 5. Olives 6. Olive oil 7. Butter also the skin of potatos has significant iodine. Usually brown things that degrade to green in sunlight (like a potato or brown algaes do) have iodine. Also all foods that naturally contain iodine also contain chlorine. There is some more info about iodine here you may be interested in, since you can actually have a good store of iodine but it not be able to be used because mercury has disrupted deiodinase (selenium bound to cysteine) in the liver, so the liver can't extract it (also T4-T3 conversion requires this). This happens quite often in hypothyroidism conditions where iodine doesn't work to raise the temp sometimes selenium does. Coconut oil is a good selenium source. http://www.mastermindresearch.com/btm/modules/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=gary:iodine Cheers, From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Zoe & Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:38 PMIodine Subject: Fw: iodine I wrote to NutritionData.com to find out about iodine levels. Unfortunately, they don't track iodine. Here is his response. Zoe iodine Is there any way to search for which foods have significant IODINE? Also, is there a way to determine what form the iodine comes in? Thanks. Zoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Welcome, ! I'm glad you are bringing up the relationship of mercury and iodine. That's something I don't know much about, but I'd like to learn. I read your comments and your link with interest. You state: "Coconut oil is a good selenium source." Could you list your source for this? On NutritionData, I searched for which nuts and seeds had high selenium, and coconut meat is pretty far down on the list, with quite a bit less than Brazil Nuts, sesame seed, and sunflower seeds. http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-012127000000000000000.html It says coconut oil has no selenium in a cup of oil: http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-B00001-01c208C.html Have you found a good source that documents how much iodine is in different foods? Thanks, Zoe iodine Is there any way to search for which foods have significant IODINE? Also, is there a way to determine what form the iodine comes in? Thanks. Zoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Hi Zoe, I'm mainly researching how to restore the bodies efficient use of iodine in the presence of mercury, which cripples it. I've seen references that the coconut meat contains anywhere from 5mcg to 40mcg. I think the coconut research center http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/ lists it around 10mcg. So far my research indicates it isn't so much the amount of selenium but rather if the liver can use it as a catalyst in the conversion to T3. Even though coconut has a smaller amount of selenium than some other sources, for some reason it improves T3 counts more than other sources with more selenium. I think this is why cancer researchers like Hulda also list it as a selenium source and have people take it right after taking Lugol's Iodine. Coconut has manganese, which liberates iodine, and zinc, which would displace mercury from the selenium-cysteine compound (5' deiodinase) it is crippling in the liver, and it also has selenium. I think it is the combination that allows selenium to be used as a catalyst that causes bioavailability of iodine to go up when taking it faster than many other sources. I've seen the same thing happen by taking a mercury chelator (like NDF) and then following it with selenium-methionine supplement. Anyway, glad to be here. Cheers, From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Zoe & Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 10:44 PMiodine Subject: Re: Fw: iodine Welcome, ! I'm glad you are bringing up the relationship of mercury and iodine. That's something I don't know much about, but I'd like to learn. I read your comments and your link with interest. You state: "Coconut oil is a good selenium source." Could you list your source for this? On NutritionData, I searched for which nuts and seeds had high selenium, and coconut meat is pretty far down on the list, with quite a bit less than Brazil Nuts, sesame seed, and sunflower seeds. http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-012127000000000000000.html It says coconut oil has no selenium in a cup of oil: http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-B00001-01c208C.html Have you found a good source that documents how much iodine is in different foods? Thanks, Zoe iodine Is there any way to search for which foods have significant IODINE? Also, is there a way to determine what form the iodine comes in? Thanks. Zoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 What about the amount of fluoride you might get from toothpaste? Rush From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Czajka Sent: 21 April 2006 16:28 To: Subject: Iodine Hello le, Iodine is displaced by Fluoride and chlorine which are commonly added to water. Iodine, Fluoride and chlorine are all Halogens and share similar properties (you will find them all one on top of the other on a periodic table). Fluoride being the most reactive element on the periodic table is a good thing to remove from your water. If you do this... your iodine levels should rise naturally... and it would explain why iodine levels may be lower today than they were in the past. :-) Friday, 21 April 2006 you wrote: Re: Cancer - Yet there is still HOPE ! Continue the Fight ! I am in the process of reading a booke about iodine by Dr. Brownstein. He says that we are chronically low in iodine/iodide. The breast is were a lot of the iodine is stored and crucial to our health. When the breast are low in iodine cancer can be a result. the title of the book is Iodine, Why you need ist Why you can;t live without it. You can order it at www.drbrownstein.com le :-) http://xcelplus.com.au Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Hi ; According to Dr. Brownstein and Dr. Abraham, iodine used to be used in baked goods. 20 or 30 years ago iodine was replaced by bromides as an anticaking agent. Bromide is also a halogen and competes for the same receptors as iodine. Also there is another halogen Hecha something which comes from rocket fuels and has poluted the Colorado river. So all the water used from that river goes into people as well as the crops which are sold all over. yes getting the chlorine and fluoride out of the water definitely helps. It would be best to get your blood tested to know where you are with your levels. le Re: Cancer - Yet there is still HOPE ! Continue the Fight ! I am in the process of reading a booke about iodine by Dr. Brownstein. He says that we are chronically low in iodine/iodide. The breast is were a lot of the iodine is stored and crucial to our health. When the breast are low in iodine cancer can be a result. the title of the book is Iodine, Why you need ist Why you can;t live without it. You can order it at www.drbrownstein.com le :-) http://xcelplus.com.au Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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