Re: Sick Buildings and Reflux - Is this the causal link?

[Guest guest]

How would one know if they have parasites???

> I think this is what sets the stage for all these other

opportunistic

> infections that we seem to collect and I would say definitely

> contributes to the imbalances like candida, parasites etc. that

many of

> us have.

>

> Here's a link that has a discussion of some comprehensive links on

the

> role of MSH and the gut:

> http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/diffdx/msh.html

>

> B.

>

>

> >

> > Does anyone know if low MSH from mold exposure contributes to

these

> > digestive problems?

> >

> > -

> >

> > --- In , " barb1283 " <barb1283@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > This is from the latest ad on some yogurt but I believe it is

true

> > > since it makes alot of sense, that 75% of your immune system is

in

> > > your digestive tract. The downward spiral in my health about 2

> years

> > > before cancer started with some medicine that ruined my throat

and

> > > digestive tract.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

and others,

Here is the answer to your question from the doctor who knows all

about this issue. These are his words, not mine.

KC

MSH is intimately involved with maintaining tight junctions in small

and large intestine tight junctions between cells. It has anti-

inflammatory effects throughout the gut, including stomach. There is

a rich literature on MSH and the gastrointestinal tract (71 references

popped up on a PubMed search). Low MSH presents a host of GI problems

that often include secretory diarrhea, " leaky gut, " inflammatory bowel

disease and irritable bowel disease. Reflux is less likely to be due

to low MSH than many other factors, however.

> >

> > This is from the latest ad on some yogurt but I believe it is true

> > since it makes alot of sense, that 75% of your immune system is in

> > your digestive tract. The downward spiral in my health about 2

years

> > before cancer started with some medicine that ruined my throat and

> > digestive tract.

>

[Guest guest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnosine

I had to look it up, interesting!

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> I don't know if it is just me but I have found that a little bit of

> L-Carnosine mixed into soymilk right before going to sleep does

> very good things for my esophageal and stomach issues. Ive been

doing it for

> a few months and there have been big improvements in the overall

> inflammation level for me.

>

> I buy it in powder form.. the capsules are too expensive. Carnosine

tastes

> good.. its a little sweet..

>

> I don't know if this is the placebo effect.. I do know that

Carnosine helps

> healing

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We're animals - we all have parasites...

Haley

sea <jackiebreeze@...> wrote: How would

one know if they have parasites???

> I think this is what sets the stage for all these other

opportunistic

> infections that we seem to collect and I would say definitely

> contributes to the imbalances like candida, parasites etc. that

many of

> us have.

>

> Here's a link that has a discussion of some comprehensive links on

the

> role of MSH and the gut:

> http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/diffdx/msh.html

>

> B.

>

>

> > >

> > > This is from the latest ad on some yogurt but I believe it is

true

> > > since it makes alot of sense, that 75% of your immune system is

in

> > > your digestive tract. The downward spiral in my health about 2

> years

> > > before cancer started with some medicine that ruined my throat

and

> > > digestive tract.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, maybe I need to re-word this.

I know kids get pin worms from playing in dirt and with animals and

such. They are treated with medication. I am sure the pin worms can

cause much illness if left untreated. How do we know if parasites

are a problem for us?? I understand we may have a few, just as we

can't get away from sleeping with a few dust mites, no matter how

clean our sheet are. How do we know when these things become a

problem??? What are the symptoms? Are there any tests that can pick

up parasites in our bodies????

> > > >

> > > > This is from the latest ad on some yogurt but I believe it

is

> true

> > > > since it makes alot of sense, that 75% of your immune system

is

> in

> > > > your digestive tract. The downward spiral in my health

about 2

> > years

> > > > before cancer started with some medicine that ruined my

throat

> and

> > > > digestive tract.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When I had a colonopsy and had to drink all that nasty stuff the last

thing to pass was what was lineing my stomach and intestine walls, it

was white, probably yeast and when it was pasted it left my insides

raw. but after a few days my stomach felt alot better than it had for

a long time. yes, the reflux gets worse when I eat something that is

hardier to digest, grease is probably the worst.

I have diagestive enzeime pills, just forget to take them. my many

years of dierrhia stopped when I cut those foods from my diet that

I'm supposedly allergic too. funny how they all have mold/myco's link

to them. mainly corn,milk,yeast,and egges. now I can eat some of

these a little but still no corn. do I believe that I really have

allergies to these foods? no. maybe a reaction to whats in them? yes.

why? because my stomach can have the same reaction from some smells

which cause a mcs hit.

what I understand leaky gut syndrome to be is the stomach lineing is

porus like and reactions to whatever(mold/myco's?) that cause turmoil

in your stomach can cause foods to get stuck in this holes and

infection and you become sensatized to that food and the next time

you eat that same food it causes a reaction. is this what food

allergies are? the moist aggervateing of all this to me is trying to

wade through all the names that have possably been put on one illness.

I used to eat all these foods, all the time so why is it that I only

got these stomach problems while I was in a toxic mold environment? I

don't know about anyone else but I believe that I can't eat foods

that have the same mycotoxins in them that I was exposed too because

my whole body has become super reactive to these mycotoxins. I may

and probably do have reactions even to some non-toxic molds that I

was exposed to, but theres a big difference in effects from molds and

myco exposure with me.

just like in my homes, the myco exposure caused severe immedite

effects, different and not even close to what I may be expierenceing

from mold without myco's.I say may because I'm aware that different

toxic molds can cause different effects and I dont have a metor

attached to tell me exactly what I am breathing. I am happy to report

that the dierrhia and stomach rolling,painful gas,ect. is mostly

under controll by liveing and learning, and sometimes accures just

when I eat something I shouldn't of, or get around a smell that

brings it on.

proof that what ever your smelling your also eating. proof that all

the known effects caused from ingesting moldy/myco foods are the same

effects as breathing it in your home. theres not any route of

exposure that is not involved when it's in your environment, and

continued breathing,eating and soaking it into your skin leaves no

part of your body untouched. just my thoughts.

> >

> > Does anyone know if low MSH from mold exposure contributes to

these

> > digestive problems?

> >

> > -

> >

> > --- In , " barb1283 " <barb1283@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > This is from the latest ad on some yogurt but I believe it is

true

> > > since it makes alot of sense, that 75% of your immune system is

in

> > > your digestive tract. The downward spiral in my health about 2

> years

> > > before cancer started with some medicine that ruined my throat

and

> > > digestive tract.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

KC, this is what I have read and that the reason for the acid lying

around in your stomach is because there is undigested food there, not

emptying into your small intestine because it isn't digested enough

and so the fact it is lying around there is reason for the acid burn.

There isn't enough acid to digest the food.

--- In , " tigerpaw2c " <tigerpaw2c@...>

wrote:

>

>Mold/mycotoxins are more than

> capable of doing this on their own. Once you throw one element off

> kilter all the others may flourish.

[Guest guest]

Live, did you watch those vedio's on theri meetings I supplied with

that post?

it was like they were a breath away from saying molds/mycotoxins.

danceing all around it. of corse the cause is always unknown.

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

Type into your search engine parasites and it should give some good

information.

> >

> > Does anyone know if low MSH from mold exposure contributes to

these

> > digestive problems?

> >

> > -

> >

> > --- In , " barb1283 " <barb1283@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > This is from the latest ad on some yogurt but I believe it is

true

> > > since it makes alot of sense, that 75% of your immune system

is in

> > > your digestive tract. The downward spiral in my health about

2

> years

> > > before cancer started with some medicine that ruined my throat

and

> > > digestive tract.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know if it is tied to low MSH or not but I hope I'm

not repeating myself but just the toxic pathologist I talked to said

that toxic mold exposure more often first damages the digestive tract

and most with toxic exposure have significant damage done to their

digestive tract and can die from that alone, because they cannot

digest food or get proper nutrient from food, also protective surface

of digestive tract that prevents pathogens from entering blood stream,

is ruined and allows pathogens to easily go from digestive tract into

blood stream, keeping person constantly sick from fighting various

infections.

>

> Does anyone know if low MSH from mold exposure contributes to these

> digestive problems?

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

also, brain effects can, on theri own control some effects to the

stomach, so it might not just matter what is in your stomach, but also

whats effecting the brain.

[Guest guest]

Eeek! This probably explains a lot about my family's ill health. We

have had to get lots of nutritional support from supplements prescribed

by our doctor. Now I am really worried about my too skinny son. Is this

from ingesting toxins or inhaling them or both?

-

I don't know if it is tied to low MSH or not but I hope I'm

not repeating myself but just the toxic pathologist I talked to said

that toxic mold exposure more often first damages the digestive tract

and most with toxic exposure have significant damage done to their

digestive tract and can die from that alone, because they cannot

digest food or get proper nutrient from food, also protective surface

of digestive tract that prevents pathogens from entering blood stream,

is ruined and allows pathogens to easily go from digestive tract into

blood stream, keeping person constantly sick from fighting various

infections.

[Guest guest]

I did find some good search results but being this was mention here

in terms of injunction with mold illness, I can't find any info on

how this and mold goes hand in hand.

> > > >

> > > > This is from the latest ad on some yogurt but I believe it is

> true

> > > > since it makes alot of sense, that 75% of your immune system

> is in

> > > > your digestive tract. The downward spiral in my health about

> 2

> > years

> > > > before cancer started with some medicine that ruined my

throat

> and

> > > > digestive tract.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

When I had heart burn during my pregnacy many years ago, I eased it

with papaya enzymes. Now, this reflux is much like the heartburn I

had back then but the enzymes do not help with this reflux. Perhaps

we are all dealing with something different but same symptoms??

> > > >

> > > > Live,

> > > > There is a problem though w/seeing doctors sometimes. First

you

> > > have to get them to agree you have a problem. We have been to 3

> > > gastro doctors. All of which practice out of one of the leading

> > > hospitals here. They insist this does not effect kids. One of

the

> > > doctors saw my daughter the night I brought her to the ER

> because the

> > > pain was so bad, I thought she was having a heart attack or

> > > something. They have told me she is a 100% healthy child. (geez,

> > > that just makes me so mad when they say that) My grandmother

has

> run

> > > into the same problem. The have told her not to eat or drink 2-3

> > > hours before going to bed. It's kinda like the mold issue. If

> they

> > > are not going to agree and help, then after awhile you just

give

> up

> > > and try to fix it yourself. We have been able to do this 95%

> > > effective thru diet. Unless she is re-exposed to mold. But, even

> > > then it isn't like it was. I am not disagreeing w/you. Just

> stating

> > > that it is not just as easy as seeing a doctor and getting

> diagnosed

> > > and getting medication for some of us. You must have wonderful

> luck

> > > w/doctors. Our luck pretty much sucks w/doctors.

> > > > I do agree that this does seem to get worse w/exposure.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Re: [] Re: Sick Buildings and Reflux -

Is

> > > this the causal link?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > All of you people who have this need to see doctors.. and you

> > > really

> > > > need to see gastroenterologists..

> > > >

> > > > Please don't just limp through life.. You (we!) need to get

> this

> > > treated.

> > > >

> > > > Prilosec will only help so much..

> > > >

> > > > If it ever gets really bad you'll never be the same again..

You

> > > start

> > > > inhaling stomach acid and your throat swells up and you can't

> > > drink or

> > > > breathe. When that happened to me it was absolute hell. I

> couldn't

> > > > work for almost a year. I couldn't sleep. A lot like Jeanine.

> > > >

> > > > Its absolutely terrifying.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I don't know that, whether from digesting or inhaling. I do know that

digesting toxins the main effect is on digestive tract but pathologist

I talked to knows most of my exposure is from inhalation so affect can

be from that too, but probably is worse from ingestion certainly.

>

> Eeek! This probably explains a lot about my family's ill health. We

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure about this but if you were in very moldy conditions at

one time, most likely you ate it also on your food. Hate to say that

but likely true.

>

> Eeek! This probably explains a lot about my family's ill health. We

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

This is what I said, " Parasites are also another real problem that

many of us are not

aware of and could be very difficult to diagnose. From what I

understand we all have them, at what point they start causing us

problems, who knows "

I never said they go hand and hand. Some professionals consider

fungi as parasites because they feed off of their host. But the way

we are referring to it here, they are two totally different issues.

But parasites can cause a host of problems, very hard to detect even

by professionals, that is why I mentioned garlic as a preventative.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is from the latest ad on some yogurt but I believe it

is

> > true

> > > > > since it makes alot of sense, that 75% of your immune

system

> > is in

> > > > > your digestive tract. The downward spiral in my health

about

> > 2

> > > years

> > > > > before cancer started with some medicine that ruined my

> throat

> > and

> > > > > digestive tract.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jackie, your digestive tract was probably perfectly healthy then but

just affected by bulging uterus. However now you may have some damage

to gut so the digestive enzymes will not solve that but still might

help you to digest your food better. I have not found the secret to

healing my gut yet. Still struggling with that problem. Let you know

if I find anything that works.

>

> When I had heart burn during my pregnacy many years ago, I eased it

[Guest guest]

You read the paper at

http://www.jci.org/cgi/reprint/107/1/83.pdf

and you didn't see how aeroallergens, in this case they used aspergillus

fumigatus - was involved?

Go to the web page for the full paper at

http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/107/1/83

and read the 'methods' - section the aeroallergen used to induce the

esophagitis was *aspergillus fumigatus* intranasally.

(But the esophagitis could probably be induced by other allergens, for

example, other aspergillus spp. )

When it gets induced, then someone has also developed hypersensitivity...

here is the text:

"

*Allergen treatment of mice.*

A mouse model of allergic lung disease was established using methods

described previously (19 <http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/107/1/83#B19>,

21 <http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/107/1/83#B21>). In brief, mice were

lightly anesthetized with Metofane inhalation (methoxy-fluorane;

Schering-Plough Animal Health, Union, New Jersey, USA), and 100 µg (50 µl)

of *Aspergillus fumigatus* (Bayer Corp., Spokane, Washington, USA), 60 µg

(50 µl) of dust mite mixture (Bayer Corp.), or 50 µl of normal saline alone

was applied to the nasal or oral cavity using a micropipette with the

mouse held

in the supine position. After instillation, mice were held upright until

alert. In other experiments, 100 µl (100 µg) of *A. fumigatus* was applied

to the stomach using an 18-gauge blunt-ended stainless steel animal feeding

needle (Popper and Sons Inc., New Hyde Park, New York, USA). After three

treatments per week for 3 weeks, mice were sacrificed between 18 and 20 hours

after the last intranasal challenge. In some experiments, mice were

pretreated by intraperitoneal injection of 0.5, 0.75, and 1.0 mg of

anti-mouse IL-5 (TRFK-5) on the first day of the three weekly allergen

treatments, respectively

(22<http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/107/1/83#B22>).

Controls were also first treated with the same dose of antibodies

before challenging

with normal saline. The TRFK-5 hybridoma was purchased from American Type

Culture Collection (Rockville, land, USA), grown in ascites fluid, and

the antibody was partially purified by ammonium sulfate precipitation. In

some experiments, anesthetized mice were exposed to nine doses (25 µl)

of intranasal

*Ascaris* pseudocoelomic fluid (APF; a kind gift of ph Urban, US

Department of Agriculture, Bellville, land, USA, and Fred Finkelman,

University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA)

(23<http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/107/1/83#B23>

-26 <http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/107/1/83#B26>) on alternate days

and analyzed 18 hours after the last allergen challenge. In other

experiments, mice were sensitized by intraperitoneal injection of 50 µg of

ovalbumin (OVA) and 1 mg alum in 0.9% sterile saline on two occasions separated

by 14 days. On day 15, mice were subsequently anesthetized and intranasally

exposed to 150 µg of OVA (50 µl) on seven occasions over 10 days, followed

by analysis 18 hours after the last dose. "

**

So, see how they use aspergillus in the methods part of the paper?

Thats what is being done to induce the experimental eosiniphilic esophagitis

state.

Then go down to the very end summary and read this:

" In summary, these investigations dissect the cellular and molecular mechanisms

involved in eosinophil homing into the esophagus. We demonstrate that

intranasal allergen exposure induces marked eosinophil infiltration into the

esophagus. This suggests that eosinophilic esophagitis can be mediated by

extrinsic allergens and establishes a causal link between the development of

allergic hypersensitivity in the respiratory tract and in the

esophagus, implicating

an etiologic role for aeroallergens in the pathogenesis of esophagitis. We

propose that aeroallergens may be contributing to the pathogenesis of

esophageal inflammation in a subset of patients with primary eosinophilic

esophagitis and gastroesophageal reflux disorders. These results suggest

that a subgroup of patients with eosinophilic esophagitis may benefit from

control of aeroallergen sensitization and/or exposure. Furthermore, the

demonstration that IL-5, which is required for pulmonary eosinophilia, is also

required for eosinophil infiltration in the esophagus further substantiates

immunological cooperativity between the immune responses in the lung and

esophagus. It has long been debated whether eosinophils have a pathological

role in gastrointestinal inflammatory disorders. The demonstration that

allergen-induced epithelial hyperplasia is ablated in IL-5 gene-targeted

mice indicates that eosinophils are likely to be causally related to

gastrointestinal pathology. These data suggest that anti–IL-5 therapy, which

is currently being tested for the treatment of asthma, may be a rational

approach for the treatment of eosinophilic esophageal disorders. It is hoped

that this novel experimental regime for the induction of eosinophilic

esophagitis will facilitate future investigations designed to understand the

pathophysiology and treatment of inflammatory disorders of the esophagus. "

Don't read every last thing into this. Its very specific what it says. In my

eyes what it says is that mold exposure can cause a particularly nasty

disease, eosinophilc esophagitis, that looks a lot like GERD, but isn't

GERD, and that that disease is caused by allergic sensitization by

aeroallergens like aspergillus.

I don't know if allergic sensitization can be reversed.

Basically, it means you get very sick in this inflammatory 'eosinophilic'

way when you are exposed to mold.. The disease state is particularly nasty

form of sensitization, not quite as bad as (also eosinophilic) athsma,

because it can't suffocate you to death, but close. I came close to not

being able to breathe, I certainly could not eat or drink, when it swelled

up in me.. It was a nightmare. i was breathing stomach acid and my lungs

were scarred badly. I could feel the scars in there.. Sometimes when it

flares up, I still can feel some kind of scar in there.

Okay, now does it make sense to everybody?

[Guest guest]

I am just assuming that if we have lived for several years in a moldy

home we have ingested a fair amount of " stuff. " Clearly, what we inhale

also moves throughout our body and could end up anywhere.

-

I don't know that, whether from digesting or inhaling. I do know that

digesting toxins the main effect is on digestive tract but pathologist

I talked to knows most of my exposure is from inhalation so affect can

be from that too, but probably is worse from ingestion certainly.

[Guest guest]

What I'm trying myself right now is 'EleCare' by Ross Pharmaceuticals,

hypoallergenic formula to get amino acids and nutrition. I would like

to use this for all meals for awhile to give my gi tract and stomach

some rest from allergens and hopefully get in better nutrition but it

doesn't satisfy me. I need more 'fiber' than I get from a liquid

meal. I may try to make a smoothie with banana and put some fibrous

stuff in it and see if that helps to use product alone. Right now I

am only using it for one meal. I also am trying something

called 'Intestimend' by BrainChild Nutritionals. I have no opinion

now about that. I just got it. I'll let you know how it goes.

>

> Eeek! This probably explains a lot about my family's ill health. We

> have had to get lots of nutritional support from supplements

prescribed

> by our doctor. Now I am really worried about my too skinny son.

[Guest guest]

Would that this common sense thought made sense to any of our folks who uphold

the standards of SCIENCE - * Dolby intro heard in the background...*

~Haley

<smarshwar@...> wrote: I am just

assuming that if we have lived for several years in a moldy

home we have ingested a fair amount of " stuff. " Clearly, what we inhale

also moves throughout our body and could end up anywhere.

-

I don't know that, whether from digesting or inhaling. I do know that

digesting toxins the main effect is on digestive tract but pathologist

I talked to knows most of my exposure is from inhalation so affect can

be from that too, but probably is worse from ingestion certainly.

[Guest guest]

Some amino acids need to be taken without others in order to be absorbed

properly..And your food consumption in other areas can result in a lot of

differences in how you metabolize aminos.. even under the best of

conditions..

This happens particularly with tyrosine/phenylalanine being converted to

norepinephrine and dopamine (in the AM) and tryptophan to serotonin (in the

PM)

One of the reasons people whose tryptophan metabolism is way out of whack

often eat so many carbs is because they are desperately trying to increase

serotonin conversion from dietary tryptophan and insulin production (in

response to carb consumption) suppresses tryptophan pyrrolase temporarily..

increasing the amount of tryptophan that makes it into serotonin in the

brain.

A similar situation in some respects exists in the morning with the

catecholamine precursors tyrosine and phenylalanine .. they compete with

several other molecules for transport. So people who want to get maximum

benefit from tyrosine should take it in the morning on a completely empty

stomach.

There are other issues with those aminos too but those are the major ones.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Barb!! I would love anything that helps. Seems I had more

gastro problems since the mold thing. I feel many of my issues are

the lowering of my immune system due to mold. One thing though, ater

5 years, I am better so there is life after mold. I can now walk a

couple of miles a day, this is something I could not do a year ago.

Today was a bad day so I only made it around a block. I live in the

woods so I walk the woods but have about figured out what a block

is. I feel bad today, tongue is sore. Usually Mom's advice to suck

on a Rolaid works for tongue soreness because the mouth is part of

digestive system but that did not work today. I have been having my

breathing issues again. I felt almost 99% better for a couple of

weeks which is more than normal so maybe there is light at the end of

a moldy tunnel!! I stil need a good doctor. I wish I could go to one

of the good enviromental doctors but as we discussed awhile back, non

in this neck of the woods and I don't have money to travel. Maybe I

can in time!

> >

> > When I had heart burn during my pregnacy many years ago, I eased

it

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I do see how inhaled allergens can cause esophagitis. It seems

that the cytokine response is involved here. It is quite interesting

that something which inflames the lung would also affect the esophagus.

Honestly, this is a bit over my head. I wonder if treatments to help

the immune system would help with this problem.

-

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

You read the paper at

http://www.jci.org/cgi/reprint/107/1/83.pdf

and you didn't see how aeroallergens, in this case they used aspergillus

fumigatus - was involved?