Depression

January 2, 2000

I also had a few terrible bouts of depression and this was totally unlike

me.I needed to be on paxil for 6 month stretches twice.The first time was

totally a chemical imbalance and the antidepressants were essential.The

uncertaintiy of not having a name for my disease was destroying me.The second

time it was my marriage.I went for a year of counceling and learned to

forgive myself for getting sick with lupus.I learned to recognise all of it

was not my fault and to let go.So try to take the meds but also look at the

source of your depression.All the meds in the world won't help the depression

if its not worked out within your heart and soul.Good luck.I pray for us all

to find health and happiness in this new millenium.I am going in the right

direction physically and spiritually

Joanie

January 3, 2000

Hi Theresa, Mark, All,

Please don't think that I am trying to say that eliminating sugar will get rid

of depression, I'm not!!! I too have suffered from depression and after a battle

fo three years demying the need for it finally took Prozac. Stupid me, I

wondered afterwards why I was so dumb and refused it, as a short course fixed

the problem<sigh> So yes, I agree there is a time when taking conventional meds

is absolutely the way to go.

My concern here is that yet again we are treating the symptoms and not the

cause.

So for me my first choice would be to try and discover the cause of the

depression. As I said before that can be pretty difficult as so many things can

cause depression and steroids are but one of them.

For those of you wondering if you have a thyroid problem depression is one of

the symptoms!!!................just muddying the waters a bit more<grin>

For all of you who are suffering from depression, I understand and do feel so

VERY much for you<caring hug> Hope you all find out why and get it 'fixed' real

soon !!

hugs,

lisbeth

Re: rheumatic Depression -

Hi , Lisbeth and all,

I wish it was that simple to give up sugar to treat depression and I have

read all the books on natural treatments for the benefit of my family. It seems

I have a family history of depression, since I had a grandfather, and I have

uncles, aunts, a mother, brother and sister who have been on medications, such

as prozac all their lives, some for severe clinical depression and anxiety. I

have never been depressed in my life with the exception of a little postpartum

depression, but I was able to snap back quickly. I am generally an optimistic

extrovert type person with a sense of humor and have always been able to snap

back quickly even when suffering with all my diseases, but I have suffered my

ups and downs like most " normal " people. (for whatever " normal " is)

A few months ago, I found out what it really feels like to experience real

depression. I found myself in such great rib and back pain (costo) and with my

monthly migraines, that I could not stop crying and raging at my family. I was

totally out of control. I could not lay down to sleep and was having so much

trouble sleeping sitting up, that my FMS started to flare also. I had to seek

medical help for my depression and acute pain. As soon as I was able to get in

to my doctor and get an anti-inflammatory started and tried taking several

depression medications, which all triggered more migraines for me, I began to

feel a difference in my depression almost immediately. Since the acute pain has

been greatly reduced and I am sleeping much better, the depression has lifted,

thank God, and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Even though I

believe that some people have a hereditary propensity for depression, it can be

triggered by many different things, not just sugar. I am a diabetic and try

never to eat anything that has sugar in it. Maybe that is why I do not get

depressed as an older adult, but what would explain my eating habits in my

childhood and early adulthood when I indulged like " normal " people?

I just wanted to write this as a warning to benefit anyone on this list, who

might experience any type of depression, even that due to acute pain, so that

they will not hesitate to seek immediate medical attention. Help is out their

for depression and usually it is not the time to experiment with natural

remedies that will usually take a long time to work like most natural remedies

do. Anyone can become depressed and usually others around them are able to see

a difference in you first, before you realize that depression is your problem,

but most of them do not know what to do to help you. My husband wanted so much

to help me, but felt helpless to understand how I could keep feeling so bad and

crying all of the time, not matter what he did.

I hope my personal story will benefit someone, who might feel as I did a few

months ago. Thanks to everyone on this list for all the information and support

I have found here.

Wishing you all a pain free New Year.

Theresa B. Alaska

RA for 10 years and AP for 13 months

etmj@...

January 4, 2000

Hi Mark,

Yep, I understand about family. But giving up sugar does help some

people with slight occasional depression symptoms, like the ups and

downs of sugar/carbos or the caffeine blues. I just wanted other people

not to think that this was the whole answer especially with chronic or

clinical depression and that pain can cause depression, and if depressed

to seek medical attention.

Theresa B. Alaska

RA for 10.5 years and AP for 15 months

" Let thy food be thy medicine. " Hippocrates

HOLMES, MARK T. wrote:

> " Help is out their for depression and usually it is not the time to

> experiment with natural remedies that will usually take a long time to

> work like most natural remedies do. " thanks for writing that

> Theresa. My brother is a manic depressive and if it hadn't been for

> lithium, he'd still be unable to do anything. Getting off of sugar

> would not have done a thing for him. Mark

January 4, 2000

Does anyone have experience with Wellbutrin for depression?

<<

Can someone tell me if Prozac elevates blood pressure? My mom tried Zoloft

and that drug shot her BP up to the pt she had to quit taking it.

Also, does Prozac cause weight gain?

Thanks,

Carol* >>

February 14, 2001

Interesting image Sherry!!!...

rheumatic depression

From: Sherry

"........suffer from depression ............. I have been pretty far down at times .....don't know if any of this is of any help ....... just thought I would share.

Peace, Sherry"

Think I'll do some sharing also.....I don't suffer from severe depression, but I do get "down" from time to time, and when I do, the following is how I choose to exorcise my demons.......ummm, no, I don't eat people, I create unusal images instead. I think "alternative" ways people deal with depression is very interesting and informative. Anyone else wanna share?

Be well,

To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

February 15, 2001

Keep reading, posted the picture in response to my post... I did not post that picture and would not, actually found it a bit offensive!!! I am not sure why anyone felt the need to post that it is horrible and I personally am glad that I can think of nicer and better things to help me though the tough times.... I feel sorry for you if those types of images are what get you through.... I hope you can find something a little better than that to hold onto, I dont really get it... I think I need a break for a few days will read postings in a few...

Peace to all and hope you have some painfree days!!

Sherry

Interesting image Sherry!!!...

From: Sherry

"........suffer from depression ............. I have been pretty far down at times .....don't know if any of this is of any help ....... just thought I would share.

Peace, Sherry"

Think I'll do some sharing also.....I don't suffer from severe depression, but I do get "down" from time to time, and when I do, the following is how I choose to exorcise my demons.......ummm, no, I don't eat people, I create unusal images instead. I think "alternative" ways people deal with depression is very interesting and informative. Anyone else wanna share?

Be well,

To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroupsTo unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

December 13, 2001

Hi Everybody, and especially my friend, Geoff:

I just read that article on depression and it was soo interesting. I'm far from suffering from depression right now, but as I read it, I remember how I had been feeling before when I wrote and told everyone I was going off the AP for more conventional remedies back in the early fall and I was as depressed as you can get. I like the way the article broke down the different emanations of depression, because everyone is different and it provided different ways of remedying the situation.

The thing I wanted to bring to light also about depression is this. For the past couple of weeks I have been EUPHORIC. Now I'm not sure what has done this. I went off the AP as I said I would. I don't consider this a permanent change, but I decided to STOP EVERYTHING...because NOTHING WAS WORKING. That includes the diet Dr. Mercola recommended, all homeo remedies, all supplements, vitamins, painkillers. The only thing I kept taking was the Rheumax, and I doubled up on the dose.

A few days before I went to see the rheumy (that was a week before Thanksgiving) I started to feel better. I was actually feeling really well when I saw him, although some joints had heat to them. After seeing him, I just started feeling better and better, until now I can't account for all the energy I have....except maybe Rheumax! Almost makes me wonder why I bothered to go see him

Right now, I have urges that push me to go outside and take walks - and it's cold out there...I usually HATE the cold. I have even started to be social again. I've been reclusive for almost two years with this illness...talk about depression and loneliness and loss.

Anyway, the reason I am writing this, is because now I'm feeling better. I'm sure this disease hasn't gone away, that it is just laying low. It laid low for 5 and a half years last time, then came back with a vengeance. I'm taking advantage of feeling well to do several things: one is to get exercise while I'm feeling well so I'll have strength the next time it attacks. Two, is to make every minute count...my house has been very badly cleaned for the last two years, and I've learned just what is NOT IMPORTANT to clean over long term Three is to get on a long-term program of diet and health-giving remedies I can live with and not one that's going to make me feel like I'm constantly breaking some rule. And four, this last being most important...lots of quiet time for looking at what's next, what is, and what has been, and for being grateful.

I thought I would share this with you guys, since you have been on this journey with me, encouraging me, and being there when nobody around me could possibly understand the hell that is this disease. I wanted to thank you all for being there...and especially you, Geoff, sharing all the knowledge you have. I wanted to share this good feeling of health with you all so you can have the hope you need to get better too.

I'm not going anywhere, but this new burst of energy has made me feel so good I just have to share it and tell everyone who's been with me while I was SOOO BORING

- THANK YOU -

So thank you guys and God bless you all with good health for the holiday season and the New Year.

Huge hugs,

B.

December 14, 2001

Hi Suzz! Geoff here.

Re: rheumatic Depression

> I just read that article on depression and it was soo interesting.

Thanks

> The thing I wanted to bring to light also about depression is this.

> For the past couple of weeks I have been EUPHORIC. Now I'm not sure

> what has done this. I went off the AP as I said I would. I don't

> consider this a permanent change, but I decided to STOP EVERYTHING...

> because NOTHING WAS WORKING. That includes the diet Dr. Mercola

> recommended, all homeo remedies, all supplements, vitamins,

> painkillers. The only thing I kept taking was the Rheumax, and I

> doubled up on the dose.

That's pretty routine when the herbs work for you, depending on how bad you were

when you started. I'm wondering if euphoric may not be a bit strong... perhaps

overjoyed? (Just MO - I recognize the joy of being released from the " prison of

pain. " Actually, I suppose euphoric probably IS a better word.)

The conventional Rx drugs sap your energy. People usually are driven to try and

compensate for the energy loss by increasing their energy (caloric) intake...

thus difficult weight management, which in itself creates other energy and

depression issues, digestive issues, processing, elimination and filtering

problems, increases demand for water which is usually met with anything but

water, etc. (I detest decreasing health circles.)

If you're able to discharge the other meds, their very absence allows more

energy to be free for other consumption by the body. IOW, more energy for the

immune system to work. As the energy increases and the pain decreases, desires

for physical activity become apparent - notwithstanding the pent-up emotional

desires to pursue " normal " activities which had been previously restricted due

both to the disease process and the drugs.

BTW, on a personal note - the improvement continues. I've been on the herbs,

first RA Spes now RheuMax since 7/98. A couple of days ago I picked up my

youngest, 5 yrs, about 50-60 lbs. When I started this I couldn't pick up a

glass of water. I picked her up three times right in a row - the last time I

tossed her in the air! I picked her up with my HANDS, not my forearms. I

couldn't even do that 6 months ago and I was " feeling " the same.

The AP is another issue all together. When/if you restart the AP the herbs

should enhance it. There may be a natural remedy available to substitute but

more work is needed before that's let out to play. If it turns out to be viable,

it could provide an alternative for those with compromised guts or other factors

which render the AP ineffectual or less effective than expected.

> Right now, I have urges that push me to go outside and take

> walks - and it's cold out there...I usually HATE the cold. I

> have even started to be social again. I've been reclusive for

> almost two years with this illness...talk about depression and

> loneliness and loss.

VERY GOOD STUFF! Increased socialization indicates a deeper healing, a movement

by your body to push the disease further out from the core, i.e., away from the

central nervous system, to the organs, to the muscles, to the skin, to bye bye!

This is really wonderful... if you feel like getting out in the cold - do it! Go

walk, get a bit tired (a bit, moderation is important) get a bit cold. Come back

in and have a hot chamomile tea and relax. Kiss your husband.

(People inherently recognize this externalization as healing but may not put

their finger on it. Common examples, " He's given up hope, he's just waiting to

die. " and " He's cranky and complaining and pinching the nurses! Definately a

good sign - he should be well soon. " )

> Anyway, the reason I am writing this, is because now I'm feeling

> better. I'm sure this disease hasn't gone away, that it is just

> laying low. It laid low for 5 and a half years last time, then

> came back with a vengeance. I'm taking advantage of feeling well

It's every bit a war, just a small battlefield. You're the earth, and the war is

global. Use every opportunity you get to increase your strength, just like you

said here...

> to do several things: one is to get exercise while I'm feeling

> well so I'll have strength the next time it attacks. Two, is to

> make every minute count...my house has been very badly cleaned for

> the last two years, and I've learned just what is NOT IMPORTANT

> to clean over long term Three is to get on a long-term program

> of diet and health-giving remedies I can live with and not one

> that's going to make me feel like I'm constantly breaking some rule.

> And four, this last being most important...lots of quiet time for

> looking at what's next, what is, and what has been, and for being

> grateful.

Be still and know...

> I thought I would share this with you guys, since you have been

> on this journey with me, encouraging me, and being there when

> nobody around me could possibly understand the hell that is this

> disease. I wanted to thank you all for being there.

Thank you for the kind words, but not me...

soli Deo gloria!

Regards, -----------------------

Geoff ** Usual Disclaimers **

-----------------------

The Formula:

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http://www.healingyou.org/ NonRx herbal and homeopathic medicines

http://www.800-800-cruise.com/index-aff.html Make money & travel

December 15, 2003

>Anyone heard of Lithium Orotate being used for depression ?

Only if bipolar is thought to be underlying.

Wanita

December 15, 2003

I just read this morning of using low dose lithium oratate for

alcoholism. I should think depression is often part of alcoholism or

at least a leaning toward heavy drinking.Dr. V.

(Tahoma Clinic,WA) has used it sucessfully at doses of 10 mg, 3x a

day for alcoholics and for recovering alcoholics 5 mg, 3x a day.

There are some additional supplements that should be taken during the

6 week trial of low dose lithium.If you want to know what they are

let me know and I will check the article or send it to you.

Sheila

--- In , " dpsanter " <cowpoke@f...>

wrote:

> Anyone heard of Lithium Orotate being used for depression ?

February 19, 2004

,.....Welcome to the group, we are all here for different

reasons, but the same disease. It is wonderful to hear such a

positive attitude, and that Plaquenil is working for you. Also, that

you only have to take that drug.

Many of us have depression, each person is different, and some need

help, I do agree that you can have side-effects with so many drugs.

I have tried so many different meds, and none seem to help me. I

have a lot of problems with the disease right now. I am in constant

flare it seems, all the time. Have been in pain for too long. At the

time, there is no way that I could get on a treadmill, wish I could.

I do the best I can with the exercise program my rheumy instructed

me, which is stretches, etc...I just want to say, a lot of my friends

are in a wheelchair, and it's not because they didn't do the best

they could, to stay out of it. Just last summer, I was walking two

miles a day, and now I can't make it one block, hopefully I can get

the RA controlled, and I can exercise more,.....take care Tawny

> I just signed on to this group. I have had RA for 41/2 years.

> I was amazed by the woman on the whole list of drugs that wondered

> why she was depressed. YES, it probably was all those drugs. I'm

an

> RN and no-one can take that many drugs and not have some side

> affects!!! We need to become knowledgeable about our disease and

not

> simply let the doctors prescribe yet one more pill to shut us up.

> I have had wonderful results from taking only one drug,

Plaquenil.

> and from starting an exercise regime. I walk on the treadmill 5

time

> per week. About 4 weeks ago I tore ligaments in my right ankle and

as

> a result have not been able to keep up my treadmill walking and I

> notice a huge difference in my hip and knee pain. Walking is quite

> painful for me right now, but I feel certain that once I am able to

> get back to my walking regime, all those aches and pains will be

> greatly diminished. I am determined not to let this disease make

me

> an invalid not only in body, but in mind.

February 19, 2004

I agree, Tawny. RA can produce devastating consequences despite a

patient's best efforts and excellent healthcare received.

, I wish that more people in our group could do well on only

Plaquenil and exercise. Unfortunately, individuals have different

circumstances and levels of disease severity which require a uniquely

tailored treatment strategy. The treatments available are far from ideal

and few can remain nearly the physical person they once were.

I do concur that polypharmacy is a very big problem in our group and in

the US in general, and we are here to try to educate ourselves on that

and other important topics.

I'll tell you where to go!

Mayo Clinic in Rochester

http://www.mayoclinic.org/rochester

s Hopkins Medicine

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org

[ ] Depression

> I just signed on to this group. I have had RA for 41/2 years.

> I was amazed by the woman on the whole list of drugs that wondered

> why she was depressed. YES, it probably was all those drugs. I'm an

> RN and no-one can take that many drugs and not have some side

> affects!!! We need to become knowledgeable about our disease and not

> simply let the doctors prescribe yet one more pill to shut us up.

> I have had wonderful results from taking only one drug, Plaquenil.

> and from starting an exercise regime. I walk on the treadmill 5 time

> per week. About 4 weeks ago I tore ligaments in my right ankle and as

> a result have not been able to keep up my treadmill walking and I

> notice a huge difference in my hip and knee pain. Walking is quite

> painful for me right now, but I feel certain that once I am able to

> get back to my walking regime, all those aches and pains will be

> greatly diminished. I am determined not to let this disease make me

> an invalid not only in body, but in mind.

>

February 19, 2004

Welcome to the group. You are very fortunate that Plaquenil worked for you so

well. I was on it and it caused eye problems with my retina and also didn't

help at all. Every person is different and needs different medication. I look

forward to the day when I can exercise again-I once walked 5 miles a day but

there are days that I cannot get out of bed let alone walk. Each person has

different forms of RA and reacts differently. Everyone knows that exercise can

help, but some of us just can't do it. Since I was diagnosed, I have learned

when to push and when it is harmful to do so.

kossok1 <KBowen@...> wrote:

I just signed on to this group. I have had RA for 41/2 years.

I was amazed by the woman on the whole list of drugs that wondered

why she was depressed. YES, it probably was all those drugs. I'm an

RN and no-one can take that many drugs and not have some side

affects!!! We need to become knowledgeable about our disease and not

simply let the doctors prescribe yet one more pill to shut us up.

I have had wonderful results from taking only one drug, Plaquenil.

and from starting an exercise regime. I walk on the treadmill 5 time

per week. About 4 weeks ago I tore ligaments in my right ankle and as

a result have not been able to keep up my treadmill walking and I

notice a huge difference in my hip and knee pain. Walking is quite

painful for me right now, but I feel certain that once I am able to

get back to my walking regime, all those aches and pains will be

greatly diminished. I am determined not to let this disease make me

an invalid not only in body, but in mind.

February 19, 2004

Hi and welcome to the group! I am the woman who is taking those drugs

and is depressed and feel obligated to respond to your post.

Like you, I feel that we need to be educated about our disease and that we’

re partners with our health care professionals so that we can have the

highest quality of life possible. I never take a medication without

investigating it thoroughly. I’m an educated woman and I believe I have a

good understanding of the disease as well as the meds. I waited 4 plus

years before I had a doctor look into my symptoms, simply because I am so

against taking meds. I was determined to make myself better with herbs,

diet and exercise. I think I tried every angle out there, from the candida

diet, to the parasitic regiment, to low carb, to a food allergy elimination

diet. By the time I went to a doctor, I was barely able to walk. I had to

drop my classes in college (going back / computer programming, I’m in my 30’

s) and I lived in constant pain. Unfortunately, my decision to “heal

myself” lead to joint damage, pain, and frustration. But I certainly was

easy to diagnose by the time I saw a doctor!

I started out on Plaquenil, but it did nothing at all to reduce my symptoms

or reduce my levels of inflammation (sed rate, joint count) I wish it had,

because it certainly is the best option. Then I was on MTX, and I got some

relief, but even then I spent a year with ice and heat and no life

whatsoever. The disease activity of members of the group can vary greatly,

and just because a certain med, activity, diet etc works for one doesn’t

mean it will for another. Even on my worst weeks I exercise 3 to 4 days.

In the first year after I was diagnosed I took occasional Lortab for pain

and still wasn’t getting much relief. The decision to start on a long

acting pain med was not easy to make. No, it was one of the hardest

decisions of my life. My Dr said that it was safer over the long run (less

chance of addiction.) On the med combo I’m using I have gone from total

disability to opening and running a business from home where I have been

earning a very good living. I’ve gone from being bedridden to working 14

hrs a day. Like you, I am determined not to let this disease make me an

invalid and I don’t want to end up on disability if there’s any possible way

not to. I’ve built something on my own that is allowing me to be a

productive member of society. Each of us is trying to have the best

quality of life possible, dealing with the hand we’re dealt.

I have no doubt that the medications have side effects (how could they not?)

and I know some can cause depression. I was illustrating the changes in my

meds from when I felt great, to what I’m taking now. I really didn’t want

take an antidepressant, and as an educated partner in my health I agonize

over taking another medication. (People who have been in this group for a

while know how I agonize over meds.) Luckily the antidepressant I’m taking

will allow me to discontinue two other meds. My MD said he cannot

understand my hesitation to take what he believes is a very safe drug, but

he’s respecting my opinion and we’re going to re-evaluate whether I need

this after two weeks (it’s new, fast acting AD.)

I understand your mindset, because when I was going the “natural health

route” I thought that anyone who was taking any prescription med was

poisoning their body. It’s a sad twist of fate that I now have to take this

ridiculous number of medications to have any semblance of a life. I think

if we were to poll the group the average number of meds each person takes

would be far more than you are currently on. I’ve agonized over every med I

take, and I’m always trying to reduce the dosage or types of meds.

I wrote that post because I have friends here that I have known for years

and I was distraught. Your judgment that I’m “letting my doctor prescribe

yet one more pill to shut us (me) up”, in my opinion, was rash. Believe

me, if it were just a matter of exercise and Plaquenil for everyone with

RA – we’d all be exercising and living the life that we dream of, rather

than looking for support in this group.

I usually avoid confrontation but I really was shocked and hurt by the

judgment you came to about me, and my situation, without knowing more about

both. That said, I hope you will learn to love this group of friends as

much as I do. They’re obviously great people if I feel I can open myself

that much to them. I’ll send sensitive topics via private mail in the

future.

Warmest regards,

Carol