Mineral Oil

October 27, 2002

Is there a website where a person can get this information on

ingredients used in toiletries? I find this line of discussion very

interesting. I've tried to look up certain ingredients but didn't have

any luck finding them.

--

Green Kennewick, WA

AJ's Udder Delight Dairy Goats

http://www.nwinfo.net/~milkmaid

October 27, 2002

I realize that this is a topic with many opinions and evidently strong feelings.

However, Maybe it would be better if it is agreed to just disagree.

Myself, I am more confused now then when the question was posted in the first

place. I think I will just refrain from using it and be done with it.

in Michigan

Mineral Oil

Please keep the conversation regarding this topic professional and

polite.

Thank you for your cooperation,

Co-owner

Toiletries List Admin

October 27, 2002

Hi Bob,

I appreciate your comments and wanted to let you know!

> Please feel free to use mineral oil or not, but the facts remain facts,

> and that is the basis of any ingredients usefulness and safety.

>

> The comodogenicity of an oil means that the oil is able to wick into the

> skins pores and clog them. This has quite a bit to do with viscosity and

> surface tension, as well as with how the skin's biological activity

> deals with all the foreign stuff we smear on it. Thick greases and

> butters will clog your skin pores. Your own natural skin oils will do

> the same, and you can't get more natural than that. That's why we get

> pimples. Some of the worst and most comedogenic oils are the common or

> garden vegetable derived oils. Mineral oil is well known to be one of

> the least comedogenic oils. Fact. Simple and true. Yes it is cheap. Yes

> it sits within the upper layers of the skin without soaking in. But 99%

> of benefit of all of the oils we put on our skin comes from precisely

> this action. The purpose of the oils is to seal the surface in order to

> prevent moisture loss. Full stop. That's all they do, and that's all

> they're supposed to do.

>

I've heard the same thing about mineral oil being the least comedogenic of

oils. I perhaps read it in some ranking or some report. Maybe it would be

helpful if you could post the studies that were conducted to demonstrate the

effect. In spite of that, I still don't like the feel of it though. That's

one thing that really got me into this business! I used to use Crabtree and

products and they use mineral oil, as do many large commercial

companies. The lotion would always just sit on my skin and even seemed to be

drying. I don't know the rest of the ingredients--the box is long gone--so

maybe they were partially responsible. So, I guess intellectually I

understand your point and agree, my personal preference would be to use

different oils.

> Just because something is naturally derived does not mean it is

> necessarily good for you. Rattle snake venom is natural. Anthrax spores

> are natural, uranium is natural, even mineral oil is derived from the

> millions of living creatures that once grew and walked and soaked up

> carbon. Every part of mineral oil is 100% organic in that sense. But

> that doesn't make it either good or bad.

Oh, this is SO true! I know what folks mean when they say " natural " , but

perhaps a better way to make choices would be to consider whether or not the

ingredient or product is safe/benign/healthy to use. Elements/chemicals are

the building blocks of our earth and therefore are natural

>

> If we want to talk about conspiracy theories we need to recognise that

> many of the " natural product " manufacturers quote these " horror stories "

> in order to sell you their own products. They know that women are

> concerned (along with the rest of us!) about our health and the

> environment and toxic wastes etc. But most manufacturers see this as a

> marketing opportunity to be exploited. They simply bait their hook with

> shocking half truths in order to get you worried. If they know their

> skin and cosmetic science basics (which I often doubt) they only comment

> negatively and very suggestively about ingredients they don't use, and

> positively, usually in glowing terms, about the wonder ingredients they

> do use. This is called selling the sizzle instead of the steak. Their

> marketing could be summed up as " if you can't blind 'em with science you

> can always baffle 'em with bullsh*t! "

Yes. I agree and this does make me angry. I don't like to see innocent

folks exploited in this way. I use the words " naturally derived " when I

discuss some my products, because that is truth. But, when someone emailed

me on my site wanting to know if MY ewax is all natural, I told him that it

is not all natural and in fact, no one has all natural ewax! But I believe

the ewax is a benign substance and one that I feel comfortable using in my

products. You can find anything and everything on the web---but buyer beware!

People have always loved being told just want they want to believe. Like

the myth about sodium laurel sulfate causing cancer---not true. I personally

think there are better surfactant choices, but I would never in a million

years use that kind of scare tactic to sell my products. If I did, I couldn't

sleep at night.

>

> Here is an example. How many of the cosmetics you use, and swear by, are

> labelled as containing natural coconut-derived ingredients? I'll bet

> you'll find plenty. Look at any personal care products and cosmetics

> that don't specifically plug the natural angle and you will find names

> like cocodiethanolamide, sodium lauryl (or laureth) sulphate,

> cocamidopropylbetaine, cocoamphoacetate. Almost everything containing

> the word coco- or laur- can be called coconut derived. When you read the

> former you think " Oh good, a cosmetic derived from natural ingredients,

> I can use this safely. " But when you see the actual chemical name of

> these same ingredients you think " Oh no! This is full of chemicals; I'd

> better not use it! " Ask your self this: if a manufacturer can sell a

> product for $2 by calling an ingredient naturally derived or for only $1

> by giving it its proper INCI name which angle do you think he is going

> to promote?

Oh, yes! This one always makes me laugh. By coincidence, I just discussed

this on another list. The health food stores have shelves of products that

do this sort of thing. As you say Bob, the shampoos will list a surfactant

on the ingredient listing, but in parenthesis will say (coconut oil). I

understand this is in violation with the labeling laws, but some companies

apparently don't abide by them anyway. Sometimes the naturally derived claim

is kind of like me saying I'm related to Bruce, King of the Scots. I

am, but it's waaaay back LOL!

>

> I have followed a lot of correspondence on this site that praises the

> usefulness of many ingredients, and everyone accepts them because they

> are recommended by others whose good will they trust. But at the same

> time we are worried about using " chemicals " . Example: Polysorbate 20. a

> non-ionic surfactant emulsifier, chemical name sorbitan monolaurate

> polyethoxlyate (Tween 20). Lots of ethylene oxide units here, just like

> polyethylene glycol. Example: Emulsifying Wax, basically cetyl alcohol

> containing either sodium lauryl sulphate or a non-ionic ethylene oxide

> based surfactant.

>

I think there is alot of good information on this list and some not so good.

Kind of like life, huh? Some information can probably be backed up by

science, other information probably cannot. Having a science background, I

do tend to look for the literature/studies/data to support whatever. Being a

48 year old herbalist/naturalist/environmentalist who has experienced life, I

know that sometimes science doesn't have all the answers either. So, maybe

there is a compromise somewhere? Just some food for thought.....have a nice

evening.

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

October 27, 2002

do a google search~thats how i found out how bad mineral oil was.

www.google.com Misty

http://community.webtv.net/mpw98/ForeverYoursATouch

October 28, 2002

In a message dated 10/28/02 7:09:06 AM Central Standard Time, mpw98@...

writes:

> do a google search~thats how i found out how bad mineral oil was.

> www.google.com Misty

>

Misty,

Really not trying to pick a fight here, but I could do a google search and

find 20 articles against Mineral Oil, then I could find 20 or so for Mineral

Oil. There is a lot of information available on the web, but use it with

caution. Just because someone types it up and loads it on the net does not

mean it is true. I have tons of server space, no one regulates it and I

could start touting the benefits of cat litter for curing cancer. I could

put in lots of official sounding quotes and " facts " and basically no one

would stop me. It could all be a big joke. Not saying there isn't good info

out there, just saying to be careful.

This, unfortunately, is how all of the e-mail scams go around. You know the

ones, the little boy who wants cards, the virus that was on my good friend's

computer that no antivirus software can detect so it tells you to delete a

file, ends up the file is something you need.

Kay and Stoli

Please visit our Soap for Hope site

Selling soap for weimaraner rescue

October 28, 2002

Hi Pamela:

No offense taken! :-) I never said that using preservatives or any other

synthetics was " wrong " , but what I feel is wrong and downright misleading is

to advertise a product and claim that is " natural " , when it contains only 2

per-cent natural ingredients.

As we have discussed before there are no " natural " preservatives (maybe with

the exception of grain alcohol). The " natural " route would be

decomposition. It is " un-natural " to prevent that.

I haven't sold to the public in years, but (for example) I make salt and

sugar scrubs for myself and my family. They contain no water or

preservatives, only a small amount of vitamin E to act as an anti-oxidant

for the oils used in the formula. Their shelf life is very good,

considering they are all-natural. I use a small scoop to dig a bit out of

the jar, so I won't contaminate the product with my fingers.

As I have said before, in the " real world " there is no guarantee that the

customer won't add water by using it in the shower or whatever, and dipping

their less-than-sterile fingers into the product doesn't help! Bacteria and

fungus need water to thrive. By adding water to this you have created a

nice little microcosm for them to set up housekeeping, so a chemical

preservative would be a very good idea, considering the litigation-happy

society we live in! :-(

I like the true story of the customer that complained that her salt scrubs

were " too scratchy " ...it was later found out that this person wasn't rinsing

the scrub off, but applying it and leaving it on under her clothing! (this

is also a recommendation for detailed instructions on your labels, folks!)

:-Þ

When I make a product that contains no preservatives, it is very similar to

a food product. I don't expect it will stay fresh more than a few of weeks

at the most, even with refrigeration. I make them up in small amounts and

toss it when it starts to smell " off " or changes color or texture. Dry

mixes have a considerably longer shelf life, but even those don't last

forever.

I appreciate your input on this! ;-)

Cat

> I don't mean to offend but while the products may well be good enough to

eat

> they might not be safe to put on your skin. A product should be properly

> preserved if there is water in the product and there is no " Natural "

> preservative that will do this effectively. Even if a product has no water

> in it, take salt scrubs for example, this should also contain a

preservative

(snipped for brevity)

October 28, 2002

Kay----I understand the point you were making~and trust me there is

no fight to be had here. Everyone is going to have their own opinions

about mineral oil or tea tree oil~or whatever! The point is we are all

going to do what we feel is best for our customers~correct? My opinion

of this mineral oil is I would never add it to any recipe im making for

my customers. Many people are going to agree with me and alot are not!

Thats ok~like ive said before " to each his/her own " Its a personal

choice as well as everything else is. Misty

http://community.webtv.net/mpw98/ForeverYoursATouch

October 29, 2002

Hey list buds,

On the issue of mineral oil, there appears to be two sides of the

discussion. One side claims that the oil is okay to use, while the other

side is opposed to its use. You can follow the argument for & against and

make up your own mind as to whether or not you will use it in your products.

On this particular issue, I stand with Misty, because my research indicates

that " mineral oil is produced as a byproduct of the distillation of gasoline

from crude oil. Mineral oil is the leftover liquid & because it is

abundant, it is very inexpensive. In fact, it is more expensive to dispose

of than to produce it for purchase. " Now we know how tremendously powerful

the petro-chemical industry is. They are similar to Eskimo whalers, and

Native Americans, in that they are going to WASTE as little as possible, but

of course their motivation is profit driven. So be it. Thing is, I don't

want this stuff on my skin. I won't use it or Vicks (for the same reason) in

my commercial products.

Bottom line, I believe this discussion has caught the attention of many of

us and have found the argument very stimulating. For this reason, among

many, I love this list.

Namaste - Lynette of Terralyn Soapourri, Philadelphia, PA

October 29, 2002

I think maybe a little more information could be useful here (not that I

expect to change anyone's mind, but the knowledge may put some things

into perspective).

" Mineral Oil " is an all encompassing term for any oil derived from

petroleum - it is not, however very informative when you get down to

specific products.

There are at least 100 different grades of " mineral oil " - based on

viscosity (how thick/thin the oil is), chemmical type (the three

" common " types are aromatic, napthenic and paraffinic) and purity (ie

the degree to which the oil has been refined or treated to remove

undesireable materials).

For an oil to be suitable for cosmetic use it generally needs to be low

viscosity (thin), highly paraffinic and super- refined (meaning, though

I doubt many will realise this, that ALL of the molecules which normally

cause adverse reaction are removed during the processing stage - by

distillation, extraction, filtration, steam stripping, high pressure

hydrotreating - EXACTLY the same processes used to modify coconut oil

when it is purified for EXACTLY the same reason). Simply put - oils

ain't oils. Also, these processes aren't " cheap " - simply the economy of

scale used by the petroleum industry allows the costs to be spread over

a wider volume base, so the unit cost per litre is lower.

Mineral oils used in cosmetics must pass a battery of tests before use -

they must conform to BP (British Pharmocopea, USP US Pharmacopea, AS

Australian Standards, DIN, etc) to ensure their fitness for use - no

such requirement exists for many of the " natural " products which people

so blithely use.

Having worked in both industries (petroleum and cosmetics) at research

level I can say that I would trust the petroleum industry to ensure it

has the specification right over some backyard blender in India or

Turkey who manufactures products in a 20lt drum over a log fire. Been

there - seen that.

Regards,

Bruce

Re: Mineral Oil

October 29, 2002

Hi again. While I have no desire to be contentious or to upset anybody's

apple carts, misinformation is something that we should try to get to

the bottom of not take sides over.

Mineral oil has been widely popular with cosmetic manufacturers not just

because it is cheap or because it is a waste product the petrochemical

industry is trying to find a use for, but because it does a very good

job for the purpose for which it is used - namely it is a good

emollient, an oily substance that remains localised in/on the upper

surface of the outer skin layers where it keeps the skin's natural

moisture from evaporating out to cause dry skin. At the same time that

it performs this beneficial feat it is remarkable in that it does not

block the pores. Far from being like saran film - a completely solid

impermeable plastic, try wrapping your hand in saran if you're not

convinced - a liquid film of mineral oil is semi permeable to just the

right degree. In these properties it is better than many other vegetable

or animal derived oils and fats, all of which function in exactly the

same way when used in moisturisers. This is not a criticism of vegetable

oils. All moisturising oils localise largely in the upper layers of the

skin and prevent water evaporation. Many block the pores in the process.

Many feel continually greasy, because they are difficult for the skin to

absorb and remain on the surface. Very little of any topically applied

oils find their way into the body / bloodstream because the body is

designed to prevent such transport as much as possible. Only a few

chemicals enter the bloodstream transdermally. After all we were not

designed to need constant maintenance by chemists or beauticians. (In

fact our skins were never intended to be continually degreased of their

natural oils by the application of soap and water, but that’s another

issue!)

Let's face it the real reason so many list members do not like it is

because of its psychological associations, i.e. it sounds like a

" chemical " . After all what could be more of a chemical than a waste

product from petroleum? While I respect and share the view that desires

to use clean, green, renewable, natural products free of toxic products

(I am after all from New Zealand and an active supporter of our Green

party), rather than dirty, black, unsustainable, unnatural ones that are

contaminated with toxic impurities, we have to base our decisions on

facts not merely on preference, taste, or bias. Once we begin to

consider our often sketchily uninformed and coloured perceptions to be

THE facts we go down the road of superstition, basing our decisions on

how we feel about an issue rather than what is true.

Such a perception is often at the heart of the well intentioned but

often erroneous idea that natural things are automatically good for us,

and (the often carefully purified) products of industry are

automatically bad. Don't get me wrong here, many industrial products

are questionable without doubt, and many natural products are

beneficial, but it is not necessarily and automatically so in every case

(botox is natural for instance). In our desire to " do the right thing "

we are attracted by the idea of some essence or " natural goodness " or

" vital energy " being present in unprocessed products that is removed by

processing. This is often logically at odds with the familiar and

accepted concept of removing toxic, irritant or otherwise undesirable

components or impurities from a natural product to give us a superior

" purified " product. (How many of you still prefer to make soap out of

wood ash and animal fat drippings " straight from the carcase " for

instance? Or use molasses to sweeten things?) What we have to do is to

separate the " idea " of natural goodness from the chemical actuality of

our raw ingredients. The first is a mystical, magical essence of

nature's benevolence that exists for the user principally in their own

minds (NB: this is far from saying that the benefit/effect is not real).

The second is something that can be objectively measured and is amenable

to the chemist's and the formulator's scientific art.

Bob Foulkes

Quintessence Developments Ltd

P O Box 20349 Bishopdale, Christchurch 8030, New Zealand

Tel +64 3 359 6232 Fax +64 3 359 6532, Mob +64 25 628 8068

Confidentiality. The above email may contain confidential or legally

privileged information for the intended recipient only. If you have

received this message in error please do not print, copy, store, or

forward it to other parties, nor make any use of the information it

contains. I would be grateful if you could reply to me acknowledging

having received it in error and then delete it from your system. Thank

you.

Re: Mineral Oil

October 29, 2002

Thank you Bob! There are so many things that are petroleum byproducts that

everyone uses every day to save lives and they do not think about where it comes

from.

Mineral Oil is widely used for coating wooden bowls that food is placed in also

and for wooden utensils. It does not go rancid and is not harmful to the body.

I know because my DH is a woodturner. DH is also retired from Shell (Royal

Dutch) Oil Company

Wiccan

www.perpleasures.com

Check out our containers and spatulas

RE: Mineral Oil

Hi again. While I have no desire to be contentious or to upset anybody's

apple carts, misinformation is something that we should try to get to

the bottom of not take sides over.

---

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October 29, 2002

Thanks Bruce

Wiccan

www.perpleasures.com

Check out our containers and spatulas

RE: Mineral Oil

> I think maybe a little more information could be useful here (not that I

> expect to change anyone's mind, but the knowledge may put some things

> into perspective).

>

> " Mineral Oil " is an all encompassing term for any oil derived from

> petroleum - it is not, however very informative when you get down to

> specific products.

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/2002

October 29, 2002

Example: Emulsifying Wax, basically cetyl alcohol

> containing either sodium lauryl sulphate or a non-ionic ethylene oxide

> based surfactant.

>

> There is no substitute for accurate knowledge.

>

> Bob Foulkes

>

> Hi Bob, Yes I agree-- its about carbons and hydrogens and oxygens and

some other elements ----how they are put together(chemistry) and how they

act (biochemistry). One of the really cool things about this list is

watching everyone take an interest in the science and even the engineering

of toiletries. And I betcha we hated it in high school. Who knew??> Lynne

B

>

> ________________________________________________________________________

>

October 29, 2002

Bruce and Bob, it really is great that you guys are on this list! I have

learned so much from your posts. Thanks for the information.

Leanna in Alberta.

October 29, 2002

Thank you Bruce,

From one who has been totally confused from the very beginning of this debate,

This is the clearest, down to earth and logical reasoning I have heard and, from

a fledgling in the field of cosmetics, it has helped me understand it a lot

better.

I do have one question: Where in the world were you that you have seen them in

production in a drum over a log fire?!!!

in Michigan

Re: Mineral Oil

October 29, 2002

Hi ,

The " 20lt drum over an open fire " reference was watching somebody

collect and steam-distill a spice essence from ground spice - they used

an old 20lt kerosine drum about 1/4 filled with water and packed the top

half of the drum with the spice - placed it on a fire and collected the

condensate and then floated the essential oil off the top.

A similar process is used in India to get neem oil - some of the small

" share-croppers " collect the seeds and crush them for the oil using

pretty primitive crushing equipment - they then sell the oil to a

collector (normally by the 20 or 200 lt drum) who then aggregates it

into a large batch. Basically, until it reaches this point, no quality

control exists - and how they adjust it after this point is anyone's

guess.

This is one of the major problems with natural products - how do you

control quality in nature. Species to species variation is

understandable, but you can't even get consistancy on the same block due

to varying soil conditions. Ultimately the only method of quality

control on natural products is " after the fact " testing and blending to

give a " standardised " product - normally at the lowest acceptable

combination of price and performance.

Regards,

Bruce

October 30, 2002

Amen, Bruce - having worked in environmental engineering in the past

(as support staff, but I read every report that left our office!), I

too would place my trust where you do.

In fact, I shudder every time I see someone blithely recommending

certain botanicals (usually roots) for use in cosmetics because

it's " natural " and " wildcrafted " - which to me usually translates

as " grown without standards in industrially polluted soil in India

somewhere " ...*g*

Jules/Vancouver BC

> Having worked in both industries (petroleum and cosmetics) at

research

> level I can say that I would trust the petroleum industry to ensure

it

> has the specification right over some backyard blender in India or

> Turkey who manufactures products in a 20lt drum over a log fire.

Been

> there - seen that.

October 30, 2002

In a message dated 10/29/02 9:14:27 AM Central Standard Time, mpw98@...

writes:

> My opinion

> of this mineral oil is I would never add it to any recipe im making for

> my customers. Many people are going to agree with me and alot are not!

> Thats ok~like ive said before " to each his/her own " Its a personal

> choice as well as everything else is. Misty

>

Ok, good. I just get a little concerned about how some people take something

they find on the net and consider it true and reliable. There is a lot of

true and reliable information out there, but not all of it it.

As far as mineral oil, I don't use it. Not because I don't like it or

anything, just haven't come across a recipe that i like that uses it. But it

is wonderful to help a dog pass a large object he/she shouldn't have eaten.

But 2 tblsp on 4 slices of bread (obviously for a large dog) and feed it to

them. Helps things slide on through - LOL. Never thought you would get that

advice on a toiletries list, didya????

Kay and Stoli

Please visit our Soap for Hope site

Selling soap for weimaraner rescue

October 30, 2002

Hi Bob:

Actually, one of the main reasons I can see *not* to use mineral oil in

home-crafted preparations is the fact that most commercial manufacturers do!

I never could understand why some folks want to replicate a commercial

product, using the same ingredients, and try to sell it at twice the cost of

the original! The consumer might very well ask " why would I want to buy

this cream from you at a cost of $8.00, when I can get one from the

drugstore for less than half that cost? "

The leading cosmetic manufacturers go through a whole range of testing and

certifications before they let their product hit the market. Why then, do

we claim our home-made products are worth the extra cost?

One reason is our ingredients are more expensive. Here is an example:

avocado oil is considerably more expensive than even the best grade mineral

oil. But it gives the skin a silky-smooth feeling that mineral oil can't

come close to. (It also has been recommended for eczema and other skin

conditions, but that is another can of worms!)

Grated, there is a certain " esthetic " appeal to washing your face with a

soap made from oatmeal and honey...

One more thing and then I am going to let the subject drop: mineral oil is

treated as a foreign substance by the body. This may explain (at least

partially) why it is not absorbed by the skin, and when used internally (as

a laxative, for example) it passes through undigested, leaching out

oil-soluble vitamins and other nutrients from the system.

Cat

> Let's face it the real reason so many list members do not like it is

> because of its psychological associations, i.e. it sounds like a

> " chemical " . After all what could be more of a chemical than a waste

> product from petroleum? While I respect and share the view that desires

> to use clean, green, renewable, natural products free of toxic products

> (I am after all from New Zealand and an active supporter of our Green

> party), rather than dirty, black, unsustainable, unnatural ones that are

> contaminated with toxic impurities, we have to base our decisions on

> facts not merely on preference, taste, or bias. Once we begin to

> consider our often sketchily uninformed and coloured perceptions to be

> THE facts we go down the road of superstition, basing our decisions on

> how we feel about an issue rather than what is true.

(snipped for brevity)

October 30, 2002

Bruce,

Thanks very much for clarifying some of the background on mineral

oil! I just have a question, would the type of mineral oil generally

found in the drug stores be the paraffinic type? Just wondering... I

would imagine that's the type used in gel wax as well? For the

record I am not opposed to the use of mineral oil in general but

limit it to extreme cases where you really do need to have a serious

barrier against moisture loss. I use it in a balm for cracked heels

and fingertips, along with lanolin (let's not start on lanolin, list

members! I know it can be an allergenic.) I imagine that unless

you're covering your entire body with the stuff, the rest of your

skin will be able to breath well enough!

Thanks!

Ellen~

[snip]

>

> There are at least 100 different grades of " mineral oil " - based on

> viscosity (how thick/thin the oil is), chemmical type (the three

> " common " types are aromatic, napthenic and paraffinic)

[snip]

October 30, 2002

Bruce

That must have been an interesting process to watch even if there was no quality

control. I guess we should be grateful that there is some control over the

process that we maintain. I try to buy the best I can find to produce my

product. Sometimes you have to pay a little more than you would like but the

quality is what keeps customers coming back for more.

Thanks for taking the time to tell me about this experience.

Alternasense Skin Design Products

edandevMil@...

RE: Mineral Oil

Hi ,

The " 20lt drum over an open fire " reference was watching somebody

collect and steam-distill a spice essence from ground spice - they used

an old 20lt kerosine drum about 1/4 filled with water and packed the top

half of the drum with the spice - placed it on a fire and collected the

condensate and then floated the essential oil off the top.

A similar process is used in India to get neem oil - some of the small

" share-croppers " collect the seeds and crush them for the oil using

pretty primitive crushing equipment - they then sell the oil to a

collector (normally by the 20 or 200 lt drum) who then aggregates it

into a large batch. Basically, until it reaches this point, no quality

control exists - and how they adjust it after this point is anyone's

guess.

This is one of the major problems with natural products - how do you

control quality in nature. Species to species variation is

understandable, but you can't even get consistancy on the same block due

to varying soil conditions. Ultimately the only method of quality

control on natural products is " after the fact " testing and blending to

give a " standardised " product - normally at the lowest acceptable

combination of price and performance.

Regards,

Bruce

October 30, 2002

Hi Ellen,

Yes, the " drug store " variety mineral oil is a paraffin type -

Technically it's probably a mid-range viscosity super-hydrotreated

paraffin and will conform to the USP standard (assuming you are in the

US). Because the molecule is (relatively) large it doesn't penetrate the

skin very well - HOWEVER, a few years ago one of the oil companies

brought out a product that is about half the viscosity of the normal oil

(in effect a much smaller molecule) - I can't remember the name, but

it's skin penetration and rub-in is vastly better, hence the

proliferation of " non-greasy " skin creams about 6 - 7 years ago - of

course it doesn't work as well as a laxative, so you don't find it on

the drug store shelves. However it IS often found in " baby oils " because

of the " dry finish " effect.

The other option to mineral oils (assuming you go the synthetic route)

are the silicone oils ( dimeticones and dimethiconols) - they are what

provide most of the " non-greasy " type creams these days because they

leave the skin with a very " velvety " finish. Price (commercially) is

about 3 time that of the mineral oil. Availability would be through a

specialty chemicals house.

Regards,

Bruce.