Re: hypochlorhydria and how to reverse it and GERD

[Guest guest]

Also, might I add that adrenal dysfunction can cause low stomach acid. This was

the reason in my case and when I worked on correcting my adrenals the

hypochlorhdria reversed itself.

Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote: Elyse, we have discussed this

on-list; hypochlorhydria can be caused

by intestinal malabsorption of nutrients that are needed to produce

adequate stomach acidity. Adequate acidity encourages proper dumping

of the stomach content into the intestine, and inadequate acidity

provokes a regurgitation response (GERD).

The way out of it is to overemphasize the missing nutrients to allow

for some malabsorption, and stoke stomach acidity with betaine HCl

until your own bowel absorption is corrected and normal stomach acid

is produced again. Zinc and b-vitamins especially have been mentioned

but if one has malabsorption a strong supplement program will of

course be beneficial generally.

About half of people over 60 have a degree of stomach acid

insufficiency, maybe partly due to our modern diet, and this leads to

dysbiosis that causes the malabsorption.

I might have missed something; perhaps someone'll add it. Some people

use 6-10 capsules of betain HCl with a meal, and some get by with 3-

4. You'll know when you stop regurgitating that you've hit the right

dose. If you've had GERD for years, permanent damage may impair your

approach and progress.

Duncan

---------------------------------

Don't pick lemons.

See all the new 2007 cars at Autos.

[Guest guest]

Maybe low adrenal works both ways; low adrenal is also a product of

dysbiosis, as the toxin load from dysbiosis drives adrenals high and

holds it there, causing eventual " adrenal exhaustion " .

When the dysbiosis is reduced so is the toxin load and the adrenals

and low thyroid that was also incidental actually are producing

plenty. So in my view adrenal exhaustion may be a phoney diagnosis by

people who seek to tweak the adrenals and thyroid output without

considering the cause, toxin load produced by dysbiosis.

Duncan

Elyse, we have

discussed this on-list; hypochlorhydria can be caused

> by intestinal malabsorption of nutrients that are needed to produce

> adequate stomach acidity. Adequate acidity encourages proper

dumping

> of the stomach content into the intestine, and inadequate acidity

> provokes a regurgitation response (GERD).

>

> The way out of it is to overemphasize the missing nutrients to

allow

> for some malabsorption, and stoke stomach acidity with betaine HCl

> until your own bowel absorption is corrected and normal stomach

acid

> is produced again. Zinc and b-vitamins especially have been

mentioned

> but if one has malabsorption a strong supplement program will of

> course be beneficial generally.

>

> About half of people over 60 have a degree of stomach acid

> insufficiency, maybe partly due to our modern diet, and this leads

to

> dysbiosis that causes the malabsorption.

>

> I might have missed something; perhaps someone'll add it. Some

people

> use 6-10 capsules of betain HCl with a meal, and some get by with 3-

> 4. You'll know when you stop regurgitating that you've hit the

right

> dose. If you've had GERD for years, permanent damage may impair

your

> approach and progress.

>

> Duncan

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Don't pick lemons.

> See all the new 2007 cars at Autos.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Duncan,

How can I know if I have low stomach acid or too much? I'm

considering the possibility that I might have too much as I've had

trouble with HCl in the past (causes heartburn or acid reflux, I don't

understand the difference).

Elyse

On 3/8/07, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

> hypochlorhydria can be caused by intestinal malabsorption of nutrients that

are

> needed to produce adequate stomach acidity. Adequate acidity encourages proper

> dumping of the stomach content into the intestine, and inadequate acidity

> provokes a regurgitation response (GERD).

> The way out of it is to overemphasize the missing nutrients to allow

> for some malabsorption, and stoke stomach acidity with betaine HCl

> until your own bowel absorption is corrected and normal stomach acid

> is produced again. Zinc and b-vitamins especially have been mentioned

> but if one has malabsorption a strong supplement program will of

> course be beneficial generally

> I might have missed something; perhaps someone'll add it. Some people

> use 6-10 capsules of betain HCl with a meal, and some get by with 3-

> 4. You'll know when you stop regurgitating that you've hit the right

> dose. If you've had GERD for years, permanent damage may impair your

> approach and progress.

>

> Duncan

[Guest guest]

Duncan,

I also get heartburn from lemon juice, is that a sign of too much

acid? What is the treatment from too much acid? Perhaps I could try

it and see what happens.

Elyse

On 3/12/07, macedgeca <macedgeca@...> wrote:

> Duncan,

> How can I know if I have low stomach acid or too much? I'm

> considering the possibility that I might have too much as I've had

> trouble with HCl in the past (causes heartburn or acid reflux, I don't

> understand the difference).

>

> Elyse

>

>

> On 3/8/07, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

>

> > hypochlorhydria can be caused by intestinal malabsorption of nutrients that

are

> > needed to produce adequate stomach acidity. Adequate acidity encourages

proper

> > dumping of the stomach content into the intestine, and inadequate acidity

> > provokes a regurgitation response (GERD).

[Guest guest]

Elyse, I note that you had trouble with HCl in low doses. Reflux is

triggered by insufficient stomach acidity; how about increasing the

dose to a point of sufficiency that opens the lower valve to the

intestine instead of the upper one into the throat?

The 3 you took is the low end for almost anyone with hypochlorhydria.

Commonly, when reflux is triggered, you would increase the dose at

the next meal. needs 10 or more, for example.

Duncan

>

> > hypochlorhydria can be caused by intestinal malabsorption of

nutrients that are

> > needed to produce adequate stomach acidity. Adequate acidity

encourages proper

> > dumping of the stomach content into the intestine, and inadequate

acidity

> > provokes a regurgitation response (GERD).

>

> > The way out of it is to overemphasize the missing nutrients to

allow

> > for some malabsorption, and stoke stomach acidity with betaine

HCl

> > until your own bowel absorption is corrected and normal stomach

acid

> > is produced again. Zinc and b-vitamins especially have been

mentioned

> > but if one has malabsorption a strong supplement program will of

> > course be beneficial generally

>

> > I might have missed something; perhaps someone'll add it. Some

people

> > use 6-10 capsules of betain HCl with a meal, and some get by

with 3-

> > 4. You'll know when you stop regurgitating that you've hit the

right

> > dose. If you've had GERD for years, permanent damage may impair

your

> > approach and progress.

> >

> > Duncan

>

[Guest guest]

Elyse, lemon juice is only about a hundredth to a thousandth of enough

acid. If it triggers heartburn you need more acidity.

Too much stomach acidity does not trigger the vomit response of GERD.

Duncan

>

> Duncan,

> I also get heartburn from lemon juice, is that a sign of too much

> acid? What is the treatment from too much acid? Perhaps I could try

> it and see what happens.

>

> Elyse

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Duncan,

I'll try HCl again, but I was thinking of increasing in smaller doses

than I did last time because of the discomfort I had. I was

considering the NOW " Super Enzymes " because it has 200mg of HCL per

capsule as well as Ox bile, bromelain, papain, pepsin and Pancreatin

4x.

I did not know that 3 capsulesof Betaine HCL was considered low, are

we talking about capsules that are 500mg each?

Elyse

On 12 Mar 2007 08:59:39 -0700, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

>

> Elyse, I note that you had trouble with HCl in low doses. Reflux is

> triggered by insufficient stomach acidity; how about increasing the

> dose to a point of sufficiency that opens the lower valve to the

> intestine instead of the upper one into the throat?

>

> The 3 you took is the low end for almost anyone with hypochlorhydria.

> Commonly, when reflux is triggered, you would increase the dose at

> the next meal. needs 10 or more, for example.

>

> Duncan

>

>

> >

> > > hypochlorhydria can be caused by intestinal malabsorption of

> nutrients that are

> > > needed to produce adequate stomach acidity. Adequate acidity

> encourages proper

> > > dumping of the stomach content into the intestine, and inadequate

> acidity

> > > provokes a regurgitation response (GERD).

> >

> > > The way out of it is to overemphasize the missing nutrients to

> allow

> > > for some malabsorption, and stoke stomach acidity with betaine

> HCl

> > > until your own bowel absorption is corrected and normal stomach

> acid

> > > is produced again. Zinc and b-vitamins especially have been

> mentioned

> > > but if one has malabsorption a strong supplement program will of

> > > course be beneficial generally

> >

> > > I might have missed something; perhaps someone'll add it. Some

> people

> > > use 6-10 capsules of betain HCl with a meal, and some get by

> with 3-

> > > 4. You'll know when you stop regurgitating that you've hit the

> right

> > > dose. If you've had GERD for years, permanent damage may impair

> your

> > > approach and progress.

> > >

> > > Duncan

[Guest guest]

Point is Elyse, smaller HCl doses will cause more heartburn until you

hit the right (higher) level, which then will not cause hearburn

because you'll stop regurgitating. This will take LARGER doses.

Duncan

> > >

> > > > hypochlorhydria can be caused by intestinal malabsorption of

> > nutrients that are

> > > > needed to produce adequate stomach acidity. Adequate acidity

> > encourages proper

> > > > dumping of the stomach content into the intestine, and

inadequate

> > acidity

> > > > provokes a regurgitation response (GERD).

> > >

> > > > The way out of it is to overemphasize the missing nutrients

to

> > allow

> > > > for some malabsorption, and stoke stomach acidity with

betaine

> > HCl

> > > > until your own bowel absorption is corrected and normal

stomach

> > acid

> > > > is produced again. Zinc and b-vitamins especially have been

> > mentioned

> > > > but if one has malabsorption a strong supplement program

will of

> > > > course be beneficial generally

> > >

> > > > I might have missed something; perhaps someone'll add it.

Some

> > people

> > > > use 6-10 capsules of betain HCl with a meal, and some get by

> > with 3-

> > > > 4. You'll know when you stop regurgitating that you've hit

the

> > right

> > > > dose. If you've had GERD for years, permanent damage may

impair

> > your

> > > > approach and progress.

> > > >

> > > > Duncan

>

[Guest guest]

OK thanks for clarifying it Duncan. I always understood it worked the

other way around that once you get the heartburn you back down.

How do you figure out what amount is needed? Is the other information

I had correct where you take 1 cap with a meal, then 2 with the next

meal, 3 with the next after that etc etc?

Elyse

On 12 Mar 2007 10:33:00 -0700, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

>

> Point is Elyse, smaller HCl doses will cause more heartburn until you

> hit the right (higher) level, which then will not cause hearburn

> because you'll stop regurgitating. This will take LARGER doses.

[Guest guest]

Most people need more than three caps so we usually start with four;

if that works, they cut it back a cap, and if it doesn't they take

two more caps with each meal until they don't get reflux. If they get

near 10 caps without result it might point to a duodenal alkaline

reflux back into the stomach, neutralizing the stomach acid.

Duncan

> >

>

> > Point is Elyse, smaller HCl doses will cause more heartburn until

you

> > hit the right (higher) level, which then will not cause hearburn

> > because you'll stop regurgitating. This will take LARGER doses.

>

[Guest guest]

Duncan,

You mentioned opening the lower valve to the intestine, do you mean

the ileocecal valve?

I experience the majority of my bloating, tension and discomfort on

the lower left, which seems to be around the Sigmoid colon, do you

know if this means anything?

Elyse

On 12 Mar 2007 08:59:39 -0700, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

> Elyse, I note that you had trouble with HCl in low doses. Reflux is

> triggered by insufficient stomach acidity; how about increasing the

> dose to a point of sufficiency that opens the lower valve to the

> intestine instead of the upper one into the throat?

>

[Guest guest]

No, I meant the pyloric sphincter, the valve between the stomach and

duodenum, could open and allow the very alkaline content of the

duodenum up into the stomach. This might cause gastric reflux GERD

into the throat by sufficiently reducing stomach acidity.

Duncna

, the

>

> > Elyse, I note that you had trouble with HCl in low doses. Reflux

is

> > triggered by insufficient stomach acidity; how about increasing

the

> > dose to a point of sufficiency that opens the lower valve to the

> > intestine instead of the upper one into the throat?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Elyse, the second part of your question refers to bowel dysbiosis and

irritation.

Duncan

>

> Duncan,

> You mentioned opening the lower valve to the intestine, do you mean

> the ileocecal valve?

> I experience the majority of my bloating, tension and discomfort on

> the lower left, which seems to be around the Sigmoid colon, do you

> know if this means anything?

> Elyse

>

[Guest guest]

THe NOW brand HCl say they're frpm beets and molasses. I can't have

beets or molasses, is the fact that it's dervied fromt hem ok? The

other things that's a concern with the NOW Super enzymes is there's

also Papaya fruit powder and Pineapple juice powder in them. How can

all this be ok?

Elyse

[Guest guest]

On 12 Mar 2007 08:59:39 -0700, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

> The 3 you took is the low end for almost anyone with hypochlorhydria.

> Commonly, when reflux is triggered, you would increase the dose at

> the next meal. needs 10 or more, for example.

As an update, I've only been taking four recently. It varies with my

health and what I'm eating (more bulk requires more HCl in my

experience). I would try the higher dose, but if raising it only

makes it worse and worse I would discontinue it.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Elyse, who told you you couldn't have these foods, and what was their

reason? Just the sugar? If so, most of the sugar has been removed and

the dose is small. Provided you're not allergic they all look fine to

me.

Duncan

>

> THe NOW brand HCl say they're frpm beets and molasses. I can't have

> beets or molasses, is the fact that it's dervied fromt hem ok? The

> other things that's a concern with the NOW Super enzymes is there's

> also Papaya fruit powder and Pineapple juice powder in them. How

can

> all this be ok?

>

> Elyse

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Duncan,

It's simply that I react to anything with sugar, including veggies

with high sugar like beets. They increase my candida symptoms.

Elyse

On 13 Mar 2007 09:22:28 -0700, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

> Elyse, who told you you couldn't have these foods, and what was their

> reason? Just the sugar? If so, most of the sugar has been removed and

> the dose is small. Provided you're not allergic they all look fine to

> me.

>

> Duncan

[Guest guest]

Ya, I follow; carbs are a bad idea even if one has no diabetes,

candida, dysbiosis, IBS or IBD; so much the worse if one's disease

reacts to it.

Of all dietary restrictions people resist curbing carbs the most even

though they may be the most unnatural food in their diet.

Duncan

>

> > Elyse, who told you you couldn't have these foods, and what was

their

> > reason? Just the sugar? If so, most of the sugar has been

removed and

> > the dose is small. Provided you're not allergic they all look

fine to

> > me.

> >

> > Duncan

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I think it's because carbs are so addictive and it's hard going

through the withdrawal/intense cravings period.

Elyse

On 3/13/07, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

> Of all dietary restrictions people resist curbing carbs the most even

> though they may be the most unnatural food in their diet.

>

[Guest guest]

Everyone trying the HCL. It is not a sure shot. I have horrible

reflux and have tried everywhere from 1 to 15 pills in a meal.

Everytime I just get burned hardcore and I want to reach my hand into

my chest and rip my esophagus out. Maybe the hcl helps for occasional

reflux, but I don't think HCL is the answer for people with really bad

cases of GERD.

greg

[Guest guest]

Thanks for writing about it Greg,

I've had similar problems in the past where the HCl made the burning

so much worse, so even though I said I'd try it again I've been

reluctant and haven't yet.

Can anyone here tell us how to neutralize the burning from HCl if

taking more doesn't work? I'm not sure if taking baking soda would

work.

Elyse

On 3/14/07, dreaminginnoother <dreaminginnoother@...> wrote:

>

> Everyone trying the HCL. It is not a sure shot. I have horrible

> reflux and have tried everywhere from 1 to 15 pills in a meal.

> Everytime I just get burned hardcore and I want to reach my hand into

> my chest and rip my esophagus out. Maybe the hcl helps for occasional

> reflux, but I don't think HCL is the answer for people with really bad

> cases of GERD.

>

> greg

>