Guest guest Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 Phil, I think one approach to SIBO to consider might be to push to clear bacteria generally while also feeding to support whatever good ones can withstand the antimicrobials. So, I'd quickly drink a quart of colloidal silver and use coconut oil, and perhaps an etc or two like an antifungal a couple of hours or so after meals to get the upper intestine more clear of bacteria, and a few hours apart three times daily with low-carb meals start an inulin and high-dose non- enteric coated probiotics program to push probiotic colonization wherever it can colonize. After a week or so I'd stop alternating the antimicrobials and maintain the inulin and high-dose probiotic with low-carb food. It's probably easier to use an antibiotic to clean the slate throughout then use a similar approach but for me that would not be part of the first attempt. Duncan > > Hi Duncan, Out of interest do you have any specific recomendations for > upper intestinal issues. > > Thanks > Phil > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Will antibiotics actually do the trick? I have done all the naturals: oil of oregano, allicin, olive leaf, wormwood, cloves, pau d'arco. All but the silver. Silver work better than the rest of these? What brand could you recommend? greg > > > > Hi Duncan, Out of interest do you have any specific recomendations > for > > upper intestinal issues. > > > > Thanks > > Phil > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Greg, SIBO means Small Bacterial Intestinal Overgrowth, which only mentions bacteria; an antibiotic works on a range of about a dozen bacteria so a program of a few antibiotics, judiciously chosen for their specificity, could conceivably work in that sense by clearing a few dozen targeted bacterial types. Most doctors are reluctant to use this shotgun approach. That being said, it's a tough call to make that antibiotics " will do the trick " because since they only work on bacteria, they will necessarily miss completely any fungal or viral involvement. That's why I suggested including antifungals and antivirals, silver or natural antimicrobials. Silver is unusual in that it has a much broader spectrum of kill than an antibiotic, including almost all bacteria and viruses, 650 and counting so far, and many yeasts and fungal spores too. The broader spectrum of efficacy than a commercial antibiotic is shared somewhat by some of the naturals as we've discussed. Any electrocolloidal silver regardless of whether it's primarily ionic or primarily particulate will work; don't fall for the manufacturer's contentions. Fact is mine, which is mainly ionic, has saved lives, and I'm sure the primarily particulates have saved lives too. So, make your own, dirt cheap, and use a deluge of it to cleanse the upper GI tract. You might want to review how to build your own high- volume maker real cheap here: http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/colloidal_silver.html Duncan > > > > > > Hi Duncan, Out of interest do you have any specific recomendations > > for > > > upper intestinal issues. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Phil > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Keen, people who use high doses of colloidal silver don't notice that is causes bowel issues, so I think it doesn't kill a lot of lower bowel bacteria. Much of the CS absorbs quickly into the body and is then slowly excreted over a period of about 30 hours and more, and whether it absorbs or not, once back in the fecal slurry it's characteristic affinity for proteins probably stabilizes it a bit as it progresses down the tract. Both circumstances dissipate the concentration, and bowel bacteria multiply and recover very quickly especially because a lot of us are feeding them inuliun, so can keep up with the kill rate in spite of some casualties. At any rate we've high-dosed CS, using sheer volume of a quart or more very quickly, to cure enteritis overnight (using the rather strong 40 PPM made with my microwave oven circuit). The high volume ensures a decent flush in the upper GI tract. You can also treat the bowel with CS enemas; I recall a parvovirus story in the silverlist community in which two puppies that looked least likely to survive were treated with CS enemas and they were the only pups in the box to survive the parvo. This is a good story about a pretty serious disease; here's a description of how parvo infects: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/how_parvo_infection_happens.html Duncan > > Hi Duncan > > If you take silver to kill bacteria/viruses in your upper GI tract, how > would that affect your probiotic cultures in the colon? Am I right in > thinking it would kill them off? > > Thanks > Keen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 hmm, okay. Well I read it and don't know the first thing about circuits. I also don't have a microwave and don't think I know anyone who does know and would be interested in helping me make a colloidal silver machine. It doesn't look like this is going to happen for me, but thanks. greg > > > > > > > > Hi Duncan, Out of interest do you have any specific > recomendations > > > for > > > > upper intestinal issues. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Well after reading the archives and some outside info it may very well be that I am dealing with SIBO in addition to dysbiosis and candida. Since I really want my first attempt with a high dose probiotic to be effective (I'll be taking the inulin/selenium/whey at reccommended doses also) I am thinking the collodial silver treatment may be a good way to start. So Duncan, are you suggesting only drinking a quart of CS w/ coconut oil at one time and one time only, then after that just using the natural antifungals? Does CS come in different concentrations, and if so, what concentration would the 1 qt need to be? Would the CS be taken with a meal or on an empty stomach? How much coconut oil with it? You say after a week you'd stop the antimicrobials...do you mean completely, ie would it not be advised to continue eating garlic (I currently eat about 6 cloves garlic as my antifungal; can't use other natural antifungals as I'm nursing. At least that's what the " other " group says....don't know for certain if there is a real reason to avoid these others). With SIBO, how long would you continue the high dose probiotic therapy? Would the NOW 8 billion be a good choice for SIBO? > > > > Hi Duncan, Out of interest do you have any specific recomendations > for > > upper intestinal issues. > > > > Thanks > > Phil > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 The CS and coconut oil can be used all the time; drinking a quart or more of CS quickly first thing in the AM on an empty stomach will help to physically propel it down the upper GI tract by sheer force of volume. When using the method to clear enteritis we used my home- made 40 PPM, but I think the standard 12-15 PPM would be adequate as over about 5 PPM kills most germs pretty good. Some germs start to die at only .5 PPM. Of course you'd avoid food and probiotics at that time, but you can eat in probably around 15-20 minutes, certainly 1/2 hour. The coconut oil and other things you might take to kill bacteria can be done at the same time as far as I know. I think that the antimicrobials should be discontinued soon into the program, perhaps by the end of the first week, to allow better effect from probiotic growth. The natural antimicrobials you eat, garlic included, will kill probiotics too because they have broad action. All this might vary individually though. Duncan > > > > > > Hi Duncan, Out of interest do you have any specific recomendations > > for > > > upper intestinal issues. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Phil > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Glad the whey's working for you Steph; it contains peptides that make one's appetite satisfied. Two scoops three times a day sounds like a lot though; more than about 70 grams will probably add muscle mass and tone especially if you're active, and burn off some fat if you have any. Is that what you're after? You don't have to use coconut oil to kill germs; raw garlic, grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, oregano oil, colloidal silver, all work OK. Duncan > > Duncan, what can you do if you are allergic (makes me vomit and very > sick) to coconut oil? Is there any kind of a relacement to the germ > killing formulae? > > ALSO: I want to tell you how HAPPY I am that you sent that explantion > about whey and how it works for glutathione etc.... I have been > battleing things for nearly three years and was TOTALLY not wanting to > take anything like whey because I had bad reactions to milk for a > lifetime and mother used to force me to drink it and then of course I > would get sick. She was taught that it was good for you because she was > raised on a farm and did not understand the problem some people have > with milk back when I was younger. > ANYWAY, because of your explaining the importance of whey where I could > understand it, I decided to start taking it and lo and behold it did NOT > make me sick in any way. NOW, for the first time I am no longer > constipated like I was and a lot of my desire to eat every five minutes > is slowely dissipating!!! I don't feel RAVISHED anymore like eating > someones arm off. And it has only been probably ten days that I have > been taking it. I am taking two scoops three times per day and found a > really happy mixture with the Jarrow and the True Whey. The True whey > has a tad too much stevia and the Jarrow tastes too dead so mixing it > half and half tastes great!!! > > Steph > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Duncan, Are you saying that everyone should stop taking garlic after about a week, or are you just responding to 's situation? Should all antifungals be stopped, or just garlic and the others with broad action? Which antifungals have this broad action? I have been following the suggestion from another web site that I should take antifungals for 2 weeks, then only probiotics for a month, then back to antifungals, then probiotics, and so on. Thanks, Zookee > > The CS and coconut oil can be used all the time; drinking a quart or > more of CS quickly first thing in the AM on an empty stomach will > help to physically propel it down the upper GI tract by sheer force > of volume. When using the method to clear enteritis we used my home- > made 40 PPM, but I think the standard 12-15 PPM would be adequate as > over about 5 PPM kills most germs pretty good. Some germs start to > die at only .5 PPM. > > Of course you'd avoid food and probiotics at that time, but you can > eat in probably around 15-20 minutes, certainly 1/2 hour. The coconut > oil and other things you might take to kill bacteria can be done at > the same time as far as I know. > > I think that the antimicrobials should be discontinued soon into the > program, perhaps by the end of the first week, to allow better effect > from probiotic growth. The natural antimicrobials you eat, garlic > included, will kill probiotics too because they have broad action. > > All this might vary individually though. > > Duncan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Hi Steph, Weak leg muscles was my worst symptom of die-off when I first started my program. I couldn't walk more than about 5 minutes before my legs started to feel like they wouldn't support me. I no longer have that problem, which means either I'm not killing anything off, or maybe the molybdenum I'm taking to fight die-off symptoms is actually working. Molybdenum is supposed to neutralize aldehydes, which are the garbage released into our systems when we kill candida. Molybdenum is also supposed to clear brain fog, but I can't tell if it works since I have been in the process of switching antidepressants, which messes with my brain. Here's a couple of articles on molybdenum, if anyone is interested: http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=565026#i http://www.arthritistrust.org/Articles/ Molybdenum%20for%20Candida%20albicans%20Patients/index.htm Take care, Zookee > > Bill, I know the sensation of die off. It was not that kind of thing, > it was vomiting and severe nausia. Not the same at all. With die of, > you leg muscles get weak and it is difficult to walk and breath and you > become ver tired etc.... No nausia vomiting and severe feeling of being > poisoned. Steph > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 What I'm thinking is that once you've been actively restoring bowel culture, the garlic and other antimicrobials could easily hinder the probiotics more than help. This is an individual call really, dependant on HOW stable and numerous the probiotics are establishing using the inulin. If you're feeding them the population will soon be fairly resistant to being decimated, because they grow fairly quickly and you'll never kill them all, but the closer to correct the culture is the less you'll need the antimicrobials, garlic included. Clear as mud? It's all about choices, but I favour quickly wiping the slate and just as quickly trying to re-establish the probiotics and letting them do their work. Duncan > > > > The CS and coconut oil can be used all the time; drinking a quart > or > > more of CS quickly first thing in the AM on an empty stomach will > > help to physically propel it down the upper GI tract by sheer force > > of volume. When using the method to clear enteritis we used my home- > > made 40 PPM, but I think the standard 12-15 PPM would be adequate > as > > over about 5 PPM kills most germs pretty good. Some germs start to > > die at only .5 PPM. > > > > Of course you'd avoid food and probiotics at that time, but you can > > eat in probably around 15-20 minutes, certainly 1/2 hour. The > coconut > > oil and other things you might take to kill bacteria can be done at > > the same time as far as I know. > > > > I think that the antimicrobials should be discontinued soon into > the > > program, perhaps by the end of the first week, to allow better > effect > > from probiotic growth. The natural antimicrobials you eat, garlic > > included, will kill probiotics too because they have broad action. > > > > All this might vary individually though. > > > > Duncan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Let's try that link for the molybdenum article again: http://www.arthritistrust.org/Articles/ Molybdenum%20for%20Candida%20albicans%20Patients/index.htm Or try this: http://tinyurl.com/3bk9sd Zookee > > > > Bill, I know the sensation of die off. It was not that kind of > thing, > > it was vomiting and severe nausia. Not the same at all. With die > of, > > you leg muscles get weak and it is difficult to walk and breath and > you > > become ver tired etc.... No nausia vomiting and severe feeling of > being > > poisoned. Steph > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 What about the coconut oil? Will it also kill off the friendly bowel bacteria? You reccomend taking the inulin/probiotic/psyllium with meals, correct? Can VCO be eaten at these meals? If not, can the coconut oil be eaten between meals? I am currently eating about 4tbls VCO/day. Also, what is the reccomended psyllium dose with the inulin/probiotic therapy? Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Yes, coconut oil suppresses probiotic growth, a little less than pathogen growth. I think a little is OK with meals but a lot would be better taken between prebiotic and probiotic dosing. The psyllium is as-needed for fecal bulking and improving bowel habit; generally, one rounded tsp downed quickly in a glass of liquid would be in the neighbourhood of enough. Duncan > > What about the coconut oil? Will it also kill off the friendly bowel bacteria? > You reccomend taking the inulin/probiotic/psyllium with meals, correct? Can VCO be > eaten at these meals? If not, can the coconut oil be eaten between meals? > I am currently eating about 4tbls VCO/day. > > Also, what is the reccomended psyllium dose with the inulin/probiotic therapy? > Thanks, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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