Re: InLiven and the truth about Bacteria Counts>Czerral's reply to Duncan

[Guest guest]

Duncan,

Here's the reply from Czerral. Sorry to the digest readers but

since the original correspondance took place quite a while ago so I

didnt' cut it out to shorten it.

Sharon

In response to your questions I offer the following:

It is our philosophy that Nature is the teacher and when we develop

a product we use Nature as our guide. Humankind was meant to obtain

the vital bacteria necessary for the body via the grain, veggie and

fruit kingdom. However these vital bacteria have been destroyed due

to modern day farming methods. Bacteria in Nature grow in colonies

and are not split or divided nor tampered with in any form. The

bacteria in InLiven are just like those found in Nature. Hence we

do not count individual bacteria rather we count colonies. InLiven

contains on average between 40-50 million cfu's per gram of living

colonies of bacteria. Each colony can be made up of thousands of

bacteria. Our bacteria are certified organic which insure you of

the quality of the bacteria which is free of contaminates. Bacteria

exist from the mouth to the anus and migrate to their proper home.

When you use active (living) bacteria they proliferate and establish

themselves in the gut. Modern day use of antibiotics, stress of

life and food additives make it necessary to consume probiotics on a

daily basis. Everyday use of InLiven will establish and replenish

these vital bacteria necessary to good health.

2. It is pure ignorance to think that probiotics in capsules or

pills are as effective as probiotics in food state. It does not

take much time to do an internet search on pills to see that the

binders in pills are detrimental to health, animal products in gel

caps are detrimental to health and that the body has to deal with

breaking down a pill. Any product that is in food state is much

better for the body than a product made by man. Again if Nature

intended us to eat pills and capsules they would grown on trees.

3. See answer one. Again it is not the count that is important but

the ability of a bacteria to colonize. One bacterium can grow to

billion in a very short time if it is active. The human body

contains more bacteria than cells.

4. You don't pay for the distinction of becoming `Certified

Organic'. You earn the distinction of becoming `Certified Organic'

by using the best products grown on certified organic farms and

setting in place protocol in your manufacturing process that

meets `Certified Organic' status. The reason these processes were

put in place was to insure the consumer that they were buying the

best possible product. This means products grown on farms that do

not use herbicides, pesticides or other chemicals. Since the 85,000

plus chemicals that are in our food, water and air supply are

destroying the health of millions, why would you not do your best to

buy only certified organic products? The only reason a company does

not produce certified organic products is that somewhere in their

process they do not qualify. And in many cases do not care. Any

company in the health industry who truly cares about their consumers

will endeavour to deliver the best product possible to the

consumers. The `Certified Organic' badge is the badge of assurance

that the consumers have as to the quality of the product.

5. All strains of bacteria found in Nature are the same. It is man

in his quest to trademark or patent a product in order to insure his

capitol gains that mucks about with Nature. You can not trademark,

patent or have proprietary bacteria if the product is natural. The

only way you can have these distinctions is to genetically modify or

alter a natural product. We do not believe mankind is smart enough

to tamper with Nature. There is no proof that genetically modified

bacteria even works. The whole business of genetically modifying

foods is really scary and we may find it will become the one thing

that destroys life on this planet as we know it. Again that is why

the bacteria found in InLiven are the basic bacteria found in the

grains, veggie and fruit kingdom.

6. I agree there is no magic bullet. Health stands upon a tripod

on Mind, Body and Spirit. However we have to be realistic. Most

people are not willing to change their diet and give up the foods

that are killing them. Others love their negative thoughts because

they get something out of it. Others do not realize that

interconnectiveness of all life and hold little value of life in

general and this all reflects in their health. I have been in the

health industry for over 30 years and have seen it all. Having said

that there has to be a place to start. To help people to realize

the importance of what they are eating. The old saying " you are

what you eat " is paramount in this day and age. InLiven is a great

place to start. It is a results orientated product that works in

such a way that people feel and see a change in their health. No

one can make any claim for any product. The body does the healing.

It uses its own intelligence to do this. Man does not really have a

clue as to how all these various functions work. Every day new

breakthroughs in science happen and old science is debunked. This

is why we follow nature's lead and do not mess with Her. The secret

to maintaining and regaining health is to change the environment in

the body so that good health is promoted not bad health. Proper

internal environment starts with the bacteria kingdom in the body.

Once we correct the bacteria imbalance in the body then we need to

saturate the body with the raw materials the body needs to get its

job done. These raw materials come in the form of living whole food

nutrients. This is the fuel provided by Nature to feed the cells of

the body which is necessary to maintain good health.

7. We have used the natural process of evolution to help the

natural bacteria to be resistant to the things people use on a daily

basis that destroy them. In nature everything strives for

survival. When the environment changes nature adapts itself to the

environment. As people eat foods that are full of chemicals etc the

internal environment of the body has to evolve to survive in this

hostile environment. This evolution can take time as each

generation of bacteria has to teach the successive generation how to

resist these deadly chemicals. All we have done with our bacteria

is to teach them how to survive. This is vital in today's world if

we are going to have health now. In time all of our intestinal

flora will adapt to modern day conditions since this is their

nature. However with a little loving help from those that

understand we can assist our bacteria and teach them how to help us

now.

8. We must recognize the importance of the fermentation process

(pre-digestion). We realize the most important issue to deal with

in relation to nutrients is the bodies ability to utilize them. By

fermenting the ingredients in InLiven we are able to use the

bacteria to remove the cellulose lining that encases food nutrients

so that these nutrients are instantly available for the body to

use. This natural process is a key to why InLiven works so well.

Finally it does no one any good to enter into a battle of opinions.

For every expert that says one thing you will find another expert

that says the opposite. Even so called medical research can be

slanted to shed a good light on the company who paid for it. No one

is protecting your health, certainly not the FDA as witnessed by

their approval of aspartame or MSG. I am not standing here on my

high horse claiming to know it all. In the last 30 years of working

and studying health I learn something new almost every day. However

every time I read or discover something new it all supports the fact

that Nature knows best. My new found knowledge just gives me a

deeper understanding of how Nature works. I am in total support for

any product that helps people maintain or regain their health. As

long as it does not compromise the body on another level, like most

drugs do. Each person has to decide for themselves what product is

best for them. This knowledge only comes from experiencing the

product. We have done everything possible in the development of

InLiven to insure the consumer the best quality product that we can

produce. This is why we produce the world's only `Certified

Organic, Probiotic, Pre-Digested, Superfood.

Happy New Year

Czerral

>

> Some of it is not true. I'll intersperse my comments between the

> InLiven claims:

>

> >

> > InLiven and the truth about Bacteria Counts

> >

> > Bacteria counts are mostly based upon sales hype and have

nothing

> > to

> > do with the qualities of the product. In order to help you

> > understand this I offer the following:

> > 1. FALA labs (which is an Australian government lab) who does

> our

> > analysis, says that it is very hard to get an accurate count of

> > bacteria above 100 million.

> > 2. Bacteria counts are done many ways. Bacteria grow in

colonies

> > and what many companies do is to shake apart the colonies then

do

> > the counts. Again this means nothing.

>

>

>

> The marketing claim doesn't reflect that the nature of bacteria is

to

> form colonies simply because they have a mechanism to divide but

not

> to break up the colony-lumps. Each bacteria in the lump has the

> ability to form a colony, and better distribution improves the

> chances of smaller lumps landing on more places to colonize.

> Distribution of a new culture into its medium is well known and

> getting infected by accident by a few spores, viruses or bacteria

is

> also well known.

>

>

>

> > 3. What most companies do not tell you is that the only thing

that

> > counts is; are the bacteria active? In other words are they

alive

> > and do they have the ability to reach the gut alive and start

new

> > colonies. Many of the so called bacteria counts just count

> bacteria

> > both dead and alive that have been shook apart from their

colonies.

>

>

>

> Maybe this is an old promotion; competition is strong nowadays and

> competitive companies are a lot more skilled at keeping the

bacteria

> alive; further, reputable or at least trusted brands specify

numbers

> in live bacteria, and we can access ndependent analyses such as

found

> on consumerlab for product information. One of the criteria they

> examined on the probiotics review we looked at on this list was

label

> claim vs actual numbers, and a lot of products did very well.

>

>

>

> > 4. Many advertisers selling bacteria in a capsule tell you that

> one

> > capsule is worth 100's of tubs of yogurt. What they do not tell

> you

> > is that it takes 48 hours for the body to break down the capsule

> and

> > by that time it has passed through the body and is in the ocean

> > somewhere.

>

>

>

> This is strictly a marketing claim

>

>

>

> > Now let's talk about InLiven:

> > 1. Our technical specifications call for a minimum of 10

million

> > colony forming units per gram. InLiven averages around 50

million

> > colony forming units per gram. These are active colony forming

> > units that reach the gut and re-colonize. Each colony can be

made

> > of millions of bacteria. So if you do the math you can see that

> our

> > bacteria are not only alive but are abundant.

>

>

>

> Depends what you call abundant; live bacteria per gram often go

over

> 3 billion. The argument about leaving colonies intact sounds nice

but

> its not necessary.

>

>

>

> > 2. We grown all of our bacteria in our own labs. Most bacteria

on

> > the market are bought from commercial growers and are boosted in

> > their count by processing in bio reactors. We culture and grow

our

> > bacteria organically with no artificial boosting of counts.

That

> is

> > why we have the world's only 'Certified Organic' bacteria.

>

>

>

> That sounds nice, but it doesn't mean many other companies just

> didn't bother to pay for the distinction of certification.

>

>

>

> > 3. All of our bacteria come from grains, veggies and fruits.

Many

> > companies grow bacteria from other sources such as fecal

matter.

> > All our grains, veggies and fruits come from Australia. This

means

> > the bacteria we culture are the heartiest in the world. This is

> > because of the harsh dry conditions in Australia the bacteria

have

> > to be really tough to survive.

>

>

>

> We may be leading into the proprietary nature of newly-discovered

> bacteria; otherwise the strains would be identical to what

everyone

> else has.

>

>

>

> > 4. InLiven contains 13 strains of bacteria along with their food

> > source. Our experience shows that if you provide the body with

> > these 13 strains they have the ability to create an environment

> > where the other 100's of sub-strains that are vital to the body

can

> > exist and multiply. In addition it is vital that the foods the

> > bacteria like to eat accompany them. Otherwise a battle erupts

> > between the good bacteria as they compete for food. This can be

> > detrimental to the bacteria population. This lack of

understanding

> > by most companies that promote bacteria products is one of the

> > principal reasons that most bacteria products do not work.

>

>

>

> The argument that most bacterial products don't work because they

> don't fix the client's dietary issue doesn't fly; the client

should

> be correcting his own dietary deficiency including that of the

> prebiotic inulin, and that's what we do on this list. In this way

he

> can choose whatever probiotic and use what he considers is the

right

> amount of prebiotic.

>

>

>

> > 5. The 13 strains of bacteria in InLiven are the results of

over

> 20

> > years of culturing. During these 20 years we have evolved the

> > bacteria through means of stress to resist many of the things

that

> > kill them. No commercial company will take the time and expense

to

> > do this. This process cost in excess of 2.5 million dollars.

>

>

>

> This justifies putting proprietary strains of bacteria that are

hard

> to kill in our bowel when we've evolved a whole set that are

already

> native to humans?

>

>

>

> > 6. The bacteria in InLiven are only half of the equation. In

this

> > formula there are 26 Living Whole Foods. These living whole

foods

> > have been pre-digested by the bacteria to make them 100%

available

> > for the body. Since the body normally only digest foods with an

> > efficiency factor of 20% this means we have increased the bio-

> > availability of vital living nutrients by 500%. This process

takes

> > three weeks.

>

>

>

> That sounds nice.

>

>

>

> > I could spend another page telling of merits of InLiven but here

is

> > the bottom line for all bacteria products. CAN YOU TAKE THE

> > FINISHED PRODUCT AND ON-FERMENT WITH IT?

> > In other words is the

> > product capable of making yogurt or other fermentable products?

> > InLiven is active and alive and you can on-ferment with it.

>

>

>

>

> People on the list on-ferment with all their probiotics. And yes,

> some started yogurt or fermented whey with their probiotic as a

> starter and I've heard of adding it to a kefir batch, but maybe

not

> on this list.

>

>

>

>

> > Finally all the information in the world is conceptual.

>

>

>

> Certainly applies to much of the advertisement.

>

>

>

> > The only

> > way to turn it into true knowledge is through experience. The

> > results of the experience of InLiven speaks for itself.

>

>

>

> People have experienced success on this list before they heard of

> InLiven, but it's nice to know there is a ready-made ferment

> available for people who don't swallow pills very well

>

>

>

> > In fact I

> > just received a fax from One Group from . In it

she

> > stated that her GP, family and every direction she turned could

not

> > help her with her intestinal problems. She had resigned herself

to

> > a life of misery. Then she found InLiven and with just two

doses

> of

> > InLiven it fixed her problems. If you contact One Group they

may

> > give you a copy of this.

>

>

>

>

> Similarly, we've discussed VSL#3 at length. A non-encapsulated

> formula, it has 53 cites in peer-review revolving around reduction

of

> markers of inflammatory bowel disease, preventing pouchitis

> reoccurrence, pretty serious conditions like that; the claim is

that

> it contains 450 BILLION per dose and it works rather well.

>

>

>

> > In closing we adhere to the principals of Mother Nature. We

know

> > that the only way to good health is through working with her by

> > using her wisdom in its natural form. We are not arrogant like

> most

> > companies that believe they can improve upon her.

> >

> > To your good health,

> >

> > Czerral

> >

> > Posted by Sharon, a big fan of In-Liven. Czerral makes the

> bacteria

> > for many of the world's probiotic formulas but In-Liven is the

one

> > he takes daily. He looks about 30 instead of 60 so I think that

> > shows that it works!

> >

> > Sharon

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sharon, for posting the answer from the Inliven company

regarding my critique on the copy on its web page;

Paragraph one below only reiterates the marketing rhetoric that

colony-forming units are better than active individual bacteria; no

data was produced that indicates a colony of thousands are superior

to a single organism when it comes to latching on to an adhesion

site.

In paragraph 2 the writer comments on my pure ignorance with regard

to his natural vs capsule ideals; he probably should have offered

some nugget of information that proved his point that capsules don't

dissolve instead. I doubt he has pure ignorance about how capsules

dissolve, so it's probably another a marketing tactic. Further, his

binder-in-pills argument is more of a red herring than anything

because probiotic capsules often don't contain binders.

So, neither of the first paragraphs provided a satisfactory answer.

In the third paragraph we have common ground, but the writer is still

trying to weasel out of ackowledging the salient point that many,

many probiotics today contain billions perfectly viable bacteria that

are able to grow colonies. Again, do we relly have to compare the

man's product with other bottom-drawer offerings or will it stand on

its own merits against good products?

The #3 reply is as disrespectful to other manufacturers as #2 is to

me personally. The low blows should not be necessary in public, in

adversising copy, or in a direct response to a consumer inquiry.

In #4 I think the writer denied it costs anything to pursue organic

certification. He again resorts to marketing rhetoric that fails to

establish that another manufacturer could not grow a vat of

probiotics without exposing them to pesticides herbicides or other

contaminants. And, the number of potential contaminants is just

another marketing sleight-of-hand, perhaps designed to confuse a

reader.

I agree with paragraph #5; what we saw on the website in the

contention that the InLiven strains are superior and selected for

their durability, was just more marketing.

I have no problem with the ideals presented in paragraphs 6 and 7.

But in paragraph 8 which mentions cellulose-fermenting properties, I

would ask for details as to which of their strains break down

cellulose. This is a property I know of of a few pathogens such as

klebsiella, clostridia and rotavirus, and I haven't run across any

probiotics that do it so I'm wondering which bacteria they use.

The closing paragraph compares bad drugs to good food, which I'm sure

we do, but closes with the final argument of " suck it and see " . At

least in the last paragraph the writer stands behind any product that

will help one to heal the bowel naturally; I submit that taking a

prebiotic, which you'd have to do anyway, is better than imposing a

probiotic culture with little or no prebiotic, But there's no reason

not to do both.

Duncan

>

> Duncan,

>

> Here's the reply from Czerral. Sorry to the digest readers but

> since the original correspondance took place quite a while ago so I

> didnt' cut it out to shorten it.

>

> Sharon

>

> In response to your questions I offer the following:

>

> It is our philosophy that Nature is the teacher and when we develop

> a product we use Nature as our guide. Humankind was meant to

obtain

> the vital bacteria necessary for the body via the grain, veggie and

> fruit kingdom. However these vital bacteria have been destroyed

due

> to modern day farming methods. Bacteria in Nature grow in colonies

> and are not split or divided nor tampered with in any form. The

> bacteria in InLiven are just like those found in Nature. Hence we

> do not count individual bacteria rather we count colonies. InLiven

> contains on average between 40-50 million cfu's per gram of living

> colonies of bacteria. Each colony can be made up of thousands of

> bacteria. Our bacteria are certified organic which insure you of

> the quality of the bacteria which is free of contaminates.

Bacteria

> exist from the mouth to the anus and migrate to their proper home.

> When you use active (living) bacteria they proliferate and

establish

> themselves in the gut. Modern day use of antibiotics, stress of

> life and food additives make it necessary to consume probiotics on

a

> daily basis. Everyday use of InLiven will establish and replenish

> these vital bacteria necessary to good health.

>

> 2. It is pure ignorance to think that probiotics in capsules or

> pills are as effective as probiotics in food state. It does not

> take much time to do an internet search on pills to see that the

> binders in pills are detrimental to health, animal products in gel

> caps are detrimental to health and that the body has to deal with

> breaking down a pill. Any product that is in food state is much

> better for the body than a product made by man. Again if Nature

> intended us to eat pills and capsules they would grown on trees.

>

> 3. See answer one. Again it is not the count that is important

but

> the ability of a bacteria to colonize. One bacterium can grow to

> billion in a very short time if it is active. The human body

> contains more bacteria than cells.

>

> 4. You don't pay for the distinction of becoming `Certified

> Organic'. You earn the distinction of becoming `Certified Organic'

> by using the best products grown on certified organic farms and

> setting in place protocol in your manufacturing process that

> meets `Certified Organic' status. The reason these processes were

> put in place was to insure the consumer that they were buying the

> best possible product. This means products grown on farms that do

> not use herbicides, pesticides or other chemicals. Since the

85,000

> plus chemicals that are in our food, water and air supply are

> destroying the health of millions, why would you not do your best

to

> buy only certified organic products? The only reason a company

does

> not produce certified organic products is that somewhere in their

> process they do not qualify. And in many cases do not care. Any

> company in the health industry who truly cares about their

consumers

> will endeavour to deliver the best product possible to the

> consumers. The `Certified Organic' badge is the badge of assurance

> that the consumers have as to the quality of the product.

>

> 5. All strains of bacteria found in Nature are the same. It is

man

> in his quest to trademark or patent a product in order to insure

his

> capitol gains that mucks about with Nature. You can not trademark,

> patent or have proprietary bacteria if the product is natural. The

> only way you can have these distinctions is to genetically modify

or

> alter a natural product. We do not believe mankind is smart enough

> to tamper with Nature. There is no proof that genetically modified

> bacteria even works. The whole business of genetically modifying

> foods is really scary and we may find it will become the one thing

> that destroys life on this planet as we know it. Again that is why

> the bacteria found in InLiven are the basic bacteria found in the

> grains, veggie and fruit kingdom.

>

> 6. I agree there is no magic bullet. Health stands upon a tripod

> on Mind, Body and Spirit. However we have to be realistic. Most

> people are not willing to change their diet and give up the foods

> that are killing them. Others love their negative thoughts because

> they get something out of it. Others do not realize that

> interconnectiveness of all life and hold little value of life in

> general and this all reflects in their health. I have been in the

> health industry for over 30 years and have seen it all. Having

said

> that there has to be a place to start. To help people to realize

> the importance of what they are eating. The old saying " you are

> what you eat " is paramount in this day and age. InLiven is a great

> place to start. It is a results orientated product that works in

> such a way that people feel and see a change in their health. No

> one can make any claim for any product. The body does the

healing.

> It uses its own intelligence to do this. Man does not really have

a

> clue as to how all these various functions work. Every day new

> breakthroughs in science happen and old science is debunked. This

> is why we follow nature's lead and do not mess with Her. The

secret

> to maintaining and regaining health is to change the environment in

> the body so that good health is promoted not bad health. Proper

> internal environment starts with the bacteria kingdom in the body.

> Once we correct the bacteria imbalance in the body then we need to

> saturate the body with the raw materials the body needs to get its

> job done. These raw materials come in the form of living whole

food

> nutrients. This is the fuel provided by Nature to feed the cells

of

> the body which is necessary to maintain good health.

>

> 7. We have used the natural process of evolution to help the

> natural bacteria to be resistant to the things people use on a

daily

> basis that destroy them. In nature everything strives for

> survival. When the environment changes nature adapts itself to the

> environment. As people eat foods that are full of chemicals etc

the

> internal environment of the body has to evolve to survive in this

> hostile environment. This evolution can take time as each

> generation of bacteria has to teach the successive generation how

to

> resist these deadly chemicals. All we have done with our bacteria

> is to teach them how to survive. This is vital in today's world if

> we are going to have health now. In time all of our intestinal

> flora will adapt to modern day conditions since this is their

> nature. However with a little loving help from those that

> understand we can assist our bacteria and teach them how to help us

> now.

>

> 8. We must recognize the importance of the fermentation process

> (pre-digestion). We realize the most important issue to deal with

> in relation to nutrients is the bodies ability to utilize them. By

> fermenting the ingredients in InLiven we are able to use the

> bacteria to remove the cellulose lining that encases food nutrients

> so that these nutrients are instantly available for the body to

> use. This natural process is a key to why InLiven works so well.

>

> Finally it does no one any good to enter into a battle of

opinions.

> For every expert that says one thing you will find another expert

> that says the opposite. Even so called medical research can be

> slanted to shed a good light on the company who paid for it. No

one

> is protecting your health, certainly not the FDA as witnessed by

> their approval of aspartame or MSG. I am not standing here on my

> high horse claiming to know it all. In the last 30 years of

working

> and studying health I learn something new almost every day.

However

> every time I read or discover something new it all supports the

fact

> that Nature knows best. My new found knowledge just gives me a

> deeper understanding of how Nature works. I am in total support

for

> any product that helps people maintain or regain their health. As

> long as it does not compromise the body on another level, like most

> drugs do. Each person has to decide for themselves what product is

> best for them. This knowledge only comes from experiencing the

> product. We have done everything possible in the development of

> InLiven to insure the consumer the best quality product that we can

> produce. This is why we produce the world's only `Certified

> Organic, Probiotic, Pre-Digested, Superfood.

>

> Happy New Year

>

> Czerral

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 1/7/07, Sharon <hotmocha@...> wrote

Here's the reply from Czerral.

I found this interesting but I'm confused by some parts of it.

*necessary to consume probiotics on a

daily basis.* *Everyday use of InLiven will establish and replenish

these vital bacteria necessary to good health.*

Why is it necessary to consume them on a daily basis? I may be wrong but I

always thought that if the bacteria were established and getting fed they

would reporduce and establish themselves. Why do we have to replenish them

every day?

2. , *animal products in gel

caps are detrimental to health *

**

What animal products are detrimental to health?

3.* Again it is not the count that is important but

the ability of a bacteria to colonize.*

So if these bacteria colonise so well, why do we have to replenish them

daily?

* All we have done with our bacteria

is to teach them how to survive. This is vital in today's world if

we are going to have health now.*

Again I keep wondering, if they survive, why do they have to be replenished

daily?

Just curious

Kirsteen

[Guest guest]

Kirsteen, you're right, the sentence about " necessary " probiotics is

just salesman's puffing; prebiotics make probiotics unnecessary.

Prebiotic feeding is more natural than probiotic eating too.

The probiotic has to be replenished daily if it's not being fed;

feeding it makes replenishing it unnecessary. Nice trick from the

manufacturers to not tell us that, eh?

Duncan

>

> On 1/7/07, Sharon <hotmocha@...> wrote

>

> Here's the reply from Czerral.

>

> I found this interesting but I'm confused by some parts of it.

>

>

> *necessary to consume probiotics on a

> daily basis.* *Everyday use of InLiven will establish and replenish

> these vital bacteria necessary to good health.*

>

>

> Why is it necessary to consume them on a daily basis? I may be

wrong but I

> always thought that if the bacteria were established and getting

fed they

> would reporduce and establish themselves. Why do we have to

replenish them

> every day?

>

> 2. , *animal products in gel

> caps are detrimental to health *

> **

> What animal products are detrimental to health?

>

> 3.* Again it is not the count that is important but

> the ability of a bacteria to colonize.*

>

> So if these bacteria colonise so well, why do we have to replenish

them

> daily?

>

> * All we have done with our bacteria

> is to teach them how to survive. This is vital in today's world if

> we are going to have health now.*

>

> Again I keep wondering, if they survive, why do they have to be

replenished

> daily?

>

> Just curious

>

> Kirsteen

>

>

>