Re: InLiven and the truth about Bacteria Counts

[Guest guest]

I have been looking at the various sites that sell this item and I am reminded

of the Three-Lac hype. Is this an MLM product? Is there any sort of money

back?

Beverle

[Guest guest]

Some of it is not true. I'll intersperse my comments between the

InLiven claims:

>

> InLiven and the truth about Bacteria Counts

>

> Bacteria counts are mostly based upon sales hype and have nothing

> to

> do with the qualities of the product. In order to help you

> understand this I offer the following:

> 1. FALA labs (which is an Australian government lab) who does

our

> analysis, says that it is very hard to get an accurate count of

> bacteria above 100 million.

> 2. Bacteria counts are done many ways. Bacteria grow in colonies

> and what many companies do is to shake apart the colonies then do

> the counts. Again this means nothing.

The marketing claim doesn't reflect that the nature of bacteria is to

form colonies simply because they have a mechanism to divide but not

to break up the colony-lumps. Each bacteria in the lump has the

ability to form a colony, and better distribution improves the

chances of smaller lumps landing on more places to colonize.

Distribution of a new culture into its medium is well known and

getting infected by accident by a few spores, viruses or bacteria is

also well known.

> 3. What most companies do not tell you is that the only thing that

> counts is; are the bacteria active? In other words are they alive

> and do they have the ability to reach the gut alive and start new

> colonies. Many of the so called bacteria counts just count

bacteria

> both dead and alive that have been shook apart from their colonies.

Maybe this is an old promotion; competition is strong nowadays and

competitive companies are a lot more skilled at keeping the bacteria

alive; further, reputable or at least trusted brands specify numbers

in live bacteria, and we can access ndependent analyses such as found

on consumerlab for product information. One of the criteria they

examined on the probiotics review we looked at on this list was label

claim vs actual numbers, and a lot of products did very well.

> 4. Many advertisers selling bacteria in a capsule tell you that

one

> capsule is worth 100's of tubs of yogurt. What they do not tell

you

> is that it takes 48 hours for the body to break down the capsule

and

> by that time it has passed through the body and is in the ocean

> somewhere.

This is strictly a marketing claim

> Now let's talk about InLiven:

> 1. Our technical specifications call for a minimum of 10 million

> colony forming units per gram. InLiven averages around 50 million

> colony forming units per gram. These are active colony forming

> units that reach the gut and re-colonize. Each colony can be made

> of millions of bacteria. So if you do the math you can see that

our

> bacteria are not only alive but are abundant.

Depends what you call abundant; live bacteria per gram often go over

3 billion. The argument about leaving colonies intact sounds nice but

its not necessary.

> 2. We grown all of our bacteria in our own labs. Most bacteria on

> the market are bought from commercial growers and are boosted in

> their count by processing in bio reactors. We culture and grow our

> bacteria organically with no artificial boosting of counts. That

is

> why we have the world's only 'Certified Organic' bacteria.

That sounds nice, but it doesn't mean many other companies just

didn't bother to pay for the distinction of certification.

> 3. All of our bacteria come from grains, veggies and fruits. Many

> companies grow bacteria from other sources such as fecal matter.

> All our grains, veggies and fruits come from Australia. This means

> the bacteria we culture are the heartiest in the world. This is

> because of the harsh dry conditions in Australia the bacteria have

> to be really tough to survive.

We may be leading into the proprietary nature of newly-discovered

bacteria; otherwise the strains would be identical to what everyone

else has.

> 4. InLiven contains 13 strains of bacteria along with their food

> source. Our experience shows that if you provide the body with

> these 13 strains they have the ability to create an environment

> where the other 100's of sub-strains that are vital to the body can

> exist and multiply. In addition it is vital that the foods the

> bacteria like to eat accompany them. Otherwise a battle erupts

> between the good bacteria as they compete for food. This can be

> detrimental to the bacteria population. This lack of understanding

> by most companies that promote bacteria products is one of the

> principal reasons that most bacteria products do not work.

The argument that most bacterial products don't work because they

don't fix the client's dietary issue doesn't fly; the client should

be correcting his own dietary deficiency including that of the

prebiotic inulin, and that's what we do on this list. In this way he

can choose whatever probiotic and use what he considers is the right

amount of prebiotic.

> 5. The 13 strains of bacteria in InLiven are the results of over

20

> years of culturing. During these 20 years we have evolved the

> bacteria through means of stress to resist many of the things that

> kill them. No commercial company will take the time and expense to

> do this. This process cost in excess of 2.5 million dollars.

This justifies putting proprietary strains of bacteria that are hard

to kill in our bowel when we've evolved a whole set that are already

native to humans?

> 6. The bacteria in InLiven are only half of the equation. In this

> formula there are 26 Living Whole Foods. These living whole foods

> have been pre-digested by the bacteria to make them 100% available

> for the body. Since the body normally only digest foods with an

> efficiency factor of 20% this means we have increased the bio-

> availability of vital living nutrients by 500%. This process takes

> three weeks.

That sounds nice.

> I could spend another page telling of merits of InLiven but here is

> the bottom line for all bacteria products. CAN YOU TAKE THE

> FINISHED PRODUCT AND ON-FERMENT WITH IT?

> In other words is the

> product capable of making yogurt or other fermentable products?

> InLiven is active and alive and you can on-ferment with it.

People on the list on-ferment with all their probiotics. And yes,

some started yogurt or fermented whey with their probiotic as a

starter and I've heard of adding it to a kefir batch, but maybe not

on this list.

> Finally all the information in the world is conceptual.

Certainly applies to much of the advertisement.

> The only

> way to turn it into true knowledge is through experience. The

> results of the experience of InLiven speaks for itself.

People have experienced success on this list before they heard of

InLiven, but it's nice to know there is a ready-made ferment

available for people who don't swallow pills very well

> In fact I

> just received a fax from One Group from . In it she

> stated that her GP, family and every direction she turned could not

> help her with her intestinal problems. She had resigned herself to

> a life of misery. Then she found InLiven and with just two doses

of

> InLiven it fixed her problems. If you contact One Group they may

> give you a copy of this.

Similarly, we've discussed VSL#3 at length. A non-encapsulated

formula, it has 53 cites in peer-review revolving around reduction of

markers of inflammatory bowel disease, preventing pouchitis

reoccurrence, pretty serious conditions like that; the claim is that

it contains 450 BILLION per dose and it works rather well.

> In closing we adhere to the principals of Mother Nature. We know

> that the only way to good health is through working with her by

> using her wisdom in its natural form. We are not arrogant like

most

> companies that believe they can improve upon her.

>

> To your good health,

>

> Czerral

>

> Posted by Sharon, a big fan of In-Liven. Czerral makes the

bacteria

> for many of the world's probiotic formulas but In-Liven is the one

> he takes daily. He looks about 30 instead of 60 so I think that

> shows that it works!

>

> Sharon

>

We haven't seen actual data for Inliven Sharon and the marketing

slant against other products rather than for their own is

distasteful, but thank you for pointing out this option and personal

experience with it.

Are you part of the multi level marketing organisation that

distributes InLiven?

Duncan

[Guest guest]

Question is with regard to the closing passage below - are the 13

proprietary, hard to kill bacteria in InLiven an arrogant attempt to

improve on nature?

Yes, Beverle, I remember the threeLac hype; the site I saw does seem

kind of rah-rah considering the cost of the low dose they're selling.

Duncan

> In closing we adhere to the principals of Mother Nature. We know

> that the only way to good health is through working with her by

> using her wisdom in its natural form. We are not arrogant like

most

> companies that believe they can improve upon her.

>

> I have been looking at the various sites that sell this item and I

am reminded of the Three-Lac hype. Is this an MLM product? Is there

any sort of money back?

> Beverle

>

>

[Guest guest]

Popular supplement company Natren gives liquid probiotics this harsh

review: " As virtually all liquid Probiotics lose their potency within

two weeks after they are produced, they should be avoided. (Most

liquids don't even make it to store shelves within that period of

time.)

Liquid acidophilus, for example, must be handled like a perishable

dairy product, with distinct expiration dates and strict refrigerated

handling at all time. The reality is that liquid acidophilus products

are generally handled like powdered supplements, with little or no

refrigeration and a pull date that is often one year or longer after

packaging. Some companies resort to adding buffering agents to

prevent the product from becoming sour or bitter. Such additives

interfere with the bacteria's optimum performance.

Overall, liquid Probiotics are the most misrepresented products on

the market. They provide little, if any, benefits to the consumer.

More stringent standards must be maintained and adhered to by

manufacturers. "

Now, they might be biased, but we know who they are. SOme of this

information was new; I would have thought the bacteria would simply

become dormant like they are when dried.

Incidentally, I learned from another online source that the bacteria

in InLiven are not all that proprietary but primarily types of

lactobacilli that we are familiar with from other documentation.

However, lactobacillus bifidus is mentioned as a component but it is

now a group called bifidobacteria, which are more acidic and control

lactobacilli AND pathogens on the bowel wall.

Duncan

>

> I have been looking at the various sites that sell this item and I

am reminded of the Three-Lac hype. Is this an MLM product? Is there

any sort of money back?

> Beverle

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've forwarded your comments to Czerral. Hopefully he has some time

to reply soon. If not, I will post the monthly conference call that

is open for questions and I invite you to listen in and ask him

personally.

Just out of curiosity who is the " we " that you speak about on this

list? Are all 4174 people on your supplement program or is this part

of the curezone program?

Sharon

>

> Some of it is not true. >

The argument that most bacterial products don't work because they

> don't fix the client's dietary issue doesn't fly; the client should

> be correcting his own dietary deficiency including that of the

> prebiotic inulin, and that's what we do on this list. In this way he

> can choose whatever probiotic and use what he considers is the right

> amount of prebiotic.

>

[Guest guest]

I'd be curious to know how many " we " is too ;O. I know it's a lot,

and I know it spans several lists.

I would be happy to discuss Czerral's claims in public; I'm sure he

can reconcile the discrepancies.

Duncan

> >

> > Some of it is not true. >

>

> The argument that most bacterial products don't work because they

> > don't fix the client's dietary issue doesn't fly; the client

should

> > be correcting his own dietary deficiency including that of the

> > prebiotic inulin, and that's what we do on this list. In this way

he

> > can choose whatever probiotic and use what he considers is the

right

> > amount of prebiotic.

> >

>