Re: Clabbered Raw Milk

[Guest guest]

> Someone told me that you put some " starter " from a previous batch and simply

leave out the gallon of raw milk o ut on counter for a few days.

It's even easier. If you use fresh raw milk, you can leave out the starter and

just leave the milk uncooked and uncooled on the counter for a few days, covered

to prevent dust falling in, but not sealed from the air. I've done this a number

of times, and it usually turns out fine. (In fact, i cannot remember any

negative experience.) It should set in about one or two days, faster at higher

temperatures. When left undisturbed - not mixed - during the process, it should

produce a firm yoghurt-type food, though it may become more watery when mixed.

It may be (though i didn't try) that continuous mixing during the fermentation

stage yields a smoother yoghurt.

This works because raw milk, when it comes from a healthy cow, has the right,

beneficial micro-organisms in it. Since the exact mix of organisms varies with

the " cow of origin " and the seasons, the end-product will also vary. Your nose

is your best tool to assess the safety: if it smells okay, it usually is. The

idea of using starter can come in handy when you happen to stumble upon a batch

of clabbered milk you especially like. Then you can save a part of it and add it

to the next batch. To avoid interference from fresh bacteria, then, that next

batch would probably have to be pasteurized, but since that would also change

the constitution of the milk itself, i'd advise not to do so and to just add the

starter to raw milk.

But recall: to begin with, try simply leaving the raw milk on the counter till

it sets, and check if you like it.

Greetings,

Maarten

[Guest guest]

Millie,

If you leave good quality raw milk on the counter in a warmish place for several

days, it will sour and clabber. The naturlaly occuring lactic acid producing

bacteria will begin turning the lactose into lactic acid and eventually the milk

will begin to clump into curd. This is a lactic acid curd because it is formed

without rennet. Same type of curd as with yogurt.

Now I would recommend doing this with high quality never refrigerated milk

because chilling will begin to have a deleterious effect on the naturally

occuring bacteria. You want them to be plentiful and in a strong state, not

weakened state to make sure that the beneficial bacteria will out produce any

pathogenic bacteria that could be present.

If you start the next batch with some of the whey from the previous batch, it

will clabber more quickly because of the increased number of lactic acid

producing bacteria. This is the same effect as adding yogurt from the the last

batch to make the next batch of yogurt.

This is what Sador Katz would refer to as a wild fermentation, because you are

using only the naturally occuring lactic acid producing bacteria and not adding

any. Of course, it is likely to be somewhat less predictable that when using an

added culture because you cannot be certain what strains of bacteria are present

and in what quantities.

My friend used to sour milk and use it as a starter for making rennet cheese.

In fact, this was the common way cheese was made before purchased starter

cultures were readily available. You can imagine, however, how chemicals and

antibiotics used to feed/treat the dairy animal might affect the balance of

organisms in the milk. In modern dairy, this would be a riskier way for

cheesemakers to make cheese and would result in cheese that were not exactly

consisitent batch to batch.

Ann

>

> Can someone help me understand this and how to make it?

>

> Someone told me that you put some " starter " from a previous batch and simply

leave out the gallon of raw milk o ut on counter for a few days. It's so vague.

Where does one get this starter? and just how long is it left out to ferment?

>

> What would I be fermenting or growing? the organisms naturally present in the

raw milk?

>

> Thank you,

> Millie

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Maarten,

THANK YOU so much for your wonderful explanation. It's the best understanding I

have gotten on it. I really appreciate it. I will try to make it soon.

Millie

[Guest guest]

Ann

Thank you so much, this is great information and it is much appreciated.

So is it possible for me to make a cheese potentially from the sour milk. Do you

mean fresh soft curd cheese or aged?

thank you again,

Millie

From: rolandfarm2003

Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:46 AM

nutrition

Subject: Re: Clabbered Raw Milk

Millie,

If you leave good quality raw milk on the counter in a warmish place for several

days, it will sour and clabber. The naturlaly occuring lactic acid producing

bacteria will begin turning the lactose into lactic acid and eventually the milk

will begin to clump into curd. This is a lactic acid curd because it is formed

without rennet. Same type of curd as with yogurt.

Now I would recommend doing this with high quality never refrigerated milk

because chilling will begin to have a deleterious effect on the naturally

occuring bacteria. You want them to be plentiful and in a strong state, not

weakened state to make sure that the beneficial bacteria will out produce any

pathogenic bacteria that could be present.

If you start the next batch with some of the whey from the previous batch, it

will clabber more quickly because of the increased number of lactic acid

producing bacteria. This is the same effect as adding yogurt from the the last

batch to make the next batch of yogurt.

This is what Sador Katz would refer to as a wild fermentation, because you are

using only the naturally occuring lactic acid producing bacteria and not adding

any. Of course, it is likely to be somewhat less predictable that when using an

added culture because you cannot be certain what strains of bacteria are present

and in what quantities.

My friend used to sour milk and use it as a starter for making rennet cheese. In

fact, this was the common way cheese was made before purchased starter cultures

were readily available. You can imagine, however, how chemicals and antibiotics

used to feed/treat the dairy animal might affect the balance of organisms in the

milk. In modern dairy, this would be a riskier way for cheesemakers to make

cheese and would result in cheese that were not exactly consisitent batch to

batch.

Ann

>

> Can someone help me understand this and how to make it?

>

> Someone told me that you put some " starter " from a previous batch and simply

leave out the gallon of raw milk o ut on counter for a few days. It's so vague.

Where does one get this starter? and just how long is it left out to ferment?

>

> What would I be fermenting or growing? the organisms naturally present in the

raw milk?

>

> Thank you,

> Millie

>

[Guest guest]

Millie,

> So is it possible for me to make a cheese potentially from the sour milk. Do

you mean fresh soft curd cheese or aged?

Both! (More info in another recent discussion.)

Maarten

[Guest guest]

Millie,

Sorry for taking so long to respond.

Yes, you can make cheese, both fresh and aged with added cultures, although in

most cases you will need to add rennet to for a more solid curd. But, it

probably isn't possible without high quality milk that hasn't been previously

refrigerated.

Slow Food Intl published a book on Italian cheeses. All the various artisnal

cheese throughout Italy are included with a brief description of the

cheesemaking process for each particular cheese. The majority of the cheese are

made without adding a starter culture, just using the naturally occuring lactic

acid producing bacteria. Some of the mold finished cheeses also are made using

the naturally occuring molds instead of adding a starter mold.

I've made several cheese without adding starter culture and most have turned out

ok, some really good and once it got contaminated and had to be tossed (one

telltail sign is bubbles in the curd).

Ann

> >

> > Can someone help me understand this and how to make it?

> >

> > Someone told me that you put some " starter " from a previous batch and simply

leave out the gallon of raw milk o ut on counter for a few days. It's so vague.

Where does one get this starter? and just how long is it left out to ferment?

> >

> > What would I be fermenting or growing? the organisms naturally present in

the raw milk?

> >

> > Thank you,

> > Millie

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Yes, you can make cheese, both fresh and aged with added cultures, although in

most cases you will need to add rennet to for a more solid curd.

Raw milk has a natural culture in itself, so added cultures shouldn't be

necessary, though of course there's nothing against adding a culture you like.

Rennet or other curdling agents are also not necessary if your curdle by souring

(fermented milk will separate into curds and whey after some time, more so when

gently heated). Again, there's nothing against using curdling agents, but it is

not true they are necessary for making cheese. In fact, you can make very dry

fresh cheese by heating fermented milk near the boiling point (but because of

the dryness it could probably not be pressed into one solid block anymore).

> But, it probably isn't possible without high quality milk that hasn't been

previously refrigerated.

I've had success starting from cooled raw fresh milk, so i can tell you it's no

problem if the milk is cooled one day before cheese-making. I guess it was high

quality milk

> I've made several cheese without adding starter culture and most have turned

out ok, some really good

There's a lot of variety in naturally occuring bacteria. So, starting from raw

milk, you get a variety in outcomes. I guess though, that for the home-maker

even added cultures will produce some variety, because we have less control over

circumstances than professional cheese makers.

> once it got contaminated and had to be tossed (one telltail sign is bubbles in

the curd).

Happens with raw as well as non-raw cheese. Indeed: be careful and do not eat

cheese with foul smell. But there's not so much of a danger, as far as my

experience goes: when i had bad cheese, i couldn't even start to take a bite

because it immediately deterred me when i just held it between my teeth.

Maarten