Re: Hi, question about fermented foods from a NEWBIE

[Guest guest]

Last time I was in Manhattan a couple of years ago I stumbled upon a farmers

market on the west side of Central Park and found a stall that was selling raw

sauerkraut, kimchi, AND also raw sauerkraut and kimchi juice. Fabulous stuff. I

could drink the stuff all day long.

Tonio

From: polarrricecaps

Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:55 AM

nutrition

Subject: Hi, question about fermented foods from a NEWBIE

Hi folks, I am looking into learning how to make fermented foods on my own, and

I'm a little overwhelmed. So while I keep learning more, I sometimes wonder if

there are any shops or restaurants that actually serve real, live fermented

foods that haven't been pasteurized, and that contain the beneficial enzymes

(i.e. yogurt, kefir, saurkraut, etc.). I understand that most storebought

doesn't qualify. I live in New York City (manhattan) and there are so many

shops, restaurants, markets here in NYC someone HAS to be serving some of the

real stuff, no?

Any ideas?

I am mostly seeking to enhance my digestive health through probiotics. I have a

touch of IBS, been tested for everything and based on a lot of research it seems

like fermented foods might be good for me.

[Guest guest]

thanks Tonio! I am going to look into some of the farmers markets around here.

Do you happen to remember if it was uptown or more downtown, and how long ago it

was? Thanks again for the tip.

>

> Last time I was in Manhattan a couple of years ago I stumbled upon a farmers

market on the west side of Central Park and found a stall that was selling raw

sauerkraut, kimchi, AND also raw sauerkraut and kimchi juice. Fabulous stuff. I

could drink the stuff all day long.

>

> Tonio

>

>

> From: polarrricecaps

> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:55 AM

> nutrition

> Subject: Hi, question about fermented foods from a NEWBIE

>

>

>

> Hi folks, I am looking into learning how to make fermented foods on my own,

and I'm a little overwhelmed. So while I keep learning more, I sometimes wonder

if there are any shops or restaurants that actually serve real, live fermented

foods that haven't been pasteurized, and that contain the beneficial enzymes

(i.e. yogurt, kefir, saurkraut, etc.). I understand that most storebought

doesn't qualify. I live in New York City (manhattan) and there are so many

shops, restaurants, markets here in NYC someone HAS to be serving some of the

real stuff, no?

>

> Any ideas?

>

> I am mostly seeking to enhance my digestive health through probiotics. I have

a touch of IBS, been tested for everything and based on a lot of research it

seems like fermented foods might be good for me.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My guess is that in a city like New York, there must be some Asian

shops? Any Korean place will have kimchi. And the Korean restaurants

will serve it too. Japanese places have a milder version they serve

with meals (only fermented a day or so).

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 10:55 PM, polarrricecaps

<polarrricecaps@...> wrote:

> Hi folks, I am looking into learning how to make fermented foods on my own,

and I'm a little overwhelmed. So while I keep learning more, I sometimes wonder

if there are any shops or restaurants that actually serve real, live fermented

foods that haven't been pasteurized, and that contain the beneficial enzymes

(i.e. yogurt, kefir, saurkraut, etc.). I understand that most storebought

doesn't qualify. I live in New York City (manhattan) and there are so many

shops, restaurants, markets here in NYC someone HAS to be serving some of the

real stuff, no?

>

> Any ideas?

>

> I am mostly seeking to enhance my digestive health through probiotics. I have

a touch of IBS, been tested for everything and based on a lot of research it

seems like fermented foods might be good for me.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think it was around or below 79 St. That is a very rough guess. But definitely

the lower half. Unfortunately I don't remember the day. It was about 2 years

ago.

thanks Tonio! I am going to look into some of the farmers markets around here.

Do you happen to remember if it was uptown or more downtown, and how long ago it

was? Thanks again for the tip.

>

> Last time I was in Manhattan a couple of years ago I stumbled upon a farmers

market on the west side of Central Park and found a stall that was selling raw

sauerkraut, kimchi, AND also raw sauerkraut and kimchi juice. Fabulous stuff. I

could drink the stuff all day long.

>

> Tonio

>

>

> From: polarrricecaps

> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:55 AM

> nutrition

> Subject: Hi, question about fermented foods from a NEWBIE

>

>

>

> Hi folks, I am looking into learning how to make fermented foods on my own,

and I'm a little overwhelmed. So while I keep learning more, I sometimes wonder

if there are any shops or restaurants that actually serve real, live fermented

foods that haven't been pasteurized, and that contain the beneficial enzymes

(i.e. yogurt, kefir, saurkraut, etc.). I understand that most storebought

doesn't qualify. I live in New York City (manhattan) and there are so many

shops, restaurants, markets here in NYC someone HAS to be serving some of the

real stuff, no?

>

> Any ideas?

>

> I am mostly seeking to enhance my digestive health through probiotics. I have

a touch of IBS, been tested for everything and based on a lot of research it

seems like fermented foods might be good for me.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow we are pretty far from there! I live down at the bottom of AZ. Only ONE

place around here has anything fermented, a mexican restaurant, they have

awesome fermented salsa!!!! I mean their salsa really got to me!! That salsa is

why I'm fermenting now. I had never tasted anything like it in my life! If you

like salsa that might be a good place to start, it kinda sealed the deal for me

when my first batch turned out fantastic. Even my son the salsa hater loved it

and was upset when it was gone! Now we're on a spree! A fermenting spree! Got

beets going now. Daikon radish w/ ginger & garlic. Oh my son started watermelon

rind last night too. And I had to shred zuchini for something we had for dinner,

so I threw some in a jar to see what happens. Being so tiny they should get

ready real fast, and I wonder if that's what was cool about relishes back in the

day, being faster to get ready ,less waiting and more eating fantastic stuff. If

anybody else has

experimented w/ zuchini Please please post to let me know what I might expect.

Was it a mistake? Am I getting carried away?

Anyways just go for it. Maybe you have something in the fridge or the garden

that wants to be fermented right now?

________________________________

From: polarrricecaps <polarrricecaps@...>

nutrition

Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 11:55:53 PM

Subject: Hi, question about fermented foods from a NEWBIE

 

Hi folks, I am looking into learning how to make fermented foods on my own, and

I'm a little overwhelmed. So while I keep learning more, I sometimes wonder if

there are any shops or restaurants that actually serve real, live fermented

foods that haven't been pasteurized, and that contain the beneficial enzymes

(i.e. yogurt, kefir, saurkraut, etc.). I understand that most storebought

doesn't qualify. I live in New York City (manhattan) and there are so many

shops, restaurants, markets here in NYC someone HAS to be serving some of the

real stuff, no?

Any ideas?

I am mostly seeking to enhance my digestive health through probiotics. I have a

touch of IBS, been tested for everything and based on a lot of research it seems

like fermented foods might be good for me.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

How do you make fermented Salsa?

-----

Only ONE place around here has anything fermented, a mexican restaurant,

they have awesome fermented salsa!!!! I mean their salsa really got to me!!

That salsa is why I'm fermenting now. I had never tasted anything like it in

my life! If you like salsa that might be a good place to start, it kinda

sealed the deal for me when my first batch turned out fantastic. Even my son

the salsa hater loved it and was upset when it was gone! Now we're on a

spree! A fermenting spree!

[Guest guest]

I got the recipe from Sally Fallon's book Nourishing Traditions:

Makes one quart

4 med tomatoes peeled,seeded & diced

2 sm onions finely chopped

3/4 c chopped chile pepper

6-8 cloves garlic,peeled & chopped

1 bunch cilantro, chopped

1 tsp dried oregano

juice of 2 lemons

1 Tbsp sea salt

4 tablesp whey (if not available use additional 1 Tbsp salt)

1/4 c filtered water

I didn't use the chile pepper, just slivered out some of the green on half a

jalapeno(I have to be able to feed it to a 4 yr old).

I did what the book says for the tomatoes, Blanch and then remove skins. Won't

blanch next time, leaving the skins on & see how it turns out. I actually

quadrupled the recipe to try to fill a gallon jar, ended up w/ a gallon and a

half. Mixed all of it up, put it in the jars.

Pushed down ingredients as much as I could to make them be below the water.

& let it sit on the counter for...I think I let it go for a week. Started

tasting on the 3rd day. Then put it in the fridge and we went through a gallon &

a half in 3 wks! Don't have to worry about it going bad cause it will be gone

too fast. In fact, when we got half way through it I should have started some

more...

SO CRAZY DELICIOUS!!!! My son is a salsa hater(12 yrs old) but he loved it!!

Helped me make the next batch! It gets to a fizzy point and that was my

favorite. Just like what I had at the restaurant. Never had anything so

fantastic in my life!!

Had to grab a ton of green tomatoes before the rediculous frost, so now we're

about to try making it w/ them. I hope it's as good as the red ones!!! You must

make this!! My son said it made him feel great! It did me too. He says I should

quit the coffe and switch to salsa.

________________________________

From: <labradors@...>

nutrition

Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 8:58:17 AM

Subject: Re: Hi, question about fermented foods from a NEWBIE

 

Hi ,

How do you make fermented Salsa?

-----

Only ONE place around here has anything fermented, a mexican restaurant,

they have awesome fermented salsa!!!! I mean their salsa really got to me!!

That salsa is why I'm fermenting now. I had never tasted anything like it in

my life! If you like salsa that might be a good place to start, it kinda

sealed the deal for me when my first batch turned out fantastic. Even my son

the salsa hater loved it and was upset when it was gone! Now we're on a

spree! A fermenting spree!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you SO much for the recipe. I have the NT book but not with me here

:-(

I think it's great that you didn't use the chile peppers, as I don't know

where I would find them around here. I will grow some next year!

How about the amount of salt? (I'll use some kefir whey, so I certainly

won't use 2 tablespoons of it!) I feel that Sally is a bit heavy handed

with salt, and (to my mind) ruined some fermented marmalade by following her

directions.

I'll be sure to report back when I have made this. I can't wait to make it

:-)

in NT

-----

I got the recipe from Sally Fallon's book Nourishing Traditions:

Makes one quart

4 med tomatoes peeled,seeded & diced

2 sm onions finely chopped

3/4 c chopped chile pepper

6-8 cloves garlic,peeled & chopped

1 bunch cilantro, chopped

1 tsp dried oregano

juice of 2 lemons

1 Tbsp sea salt

4 tablesp whey (if not available use additional 1 Tbsp salt)

1/4 c filtered water

I didn't use the chile pepper, just slivered out some of the green on half a

jalapeno(I have to be able to feed it to a 4 yr old).

I did what the book says for the tomatoes, Blanch and then remove skins.

Won't blanch next time, leaving the skins on & see how it turns out. I

actually quadrupled the recipe to try to fill a gallon jar, ended up w/ a

gallon and a half. Mixed all of it up, put it in the jars.

Pushed down ingredients as much as I could to make them be below the water.

& let it sit on the counter for...I think I let it go for a week. Started

tasting on the 3rd day. Then put it in the fridge and we went through a

gallon & a half in 3 wks! Don't have to worry about it going bad cause it

will be gone too fast. In fact, when we got half way through it I should

have started some more...

SO CRAZY DELICIOUS!!!! My son is a salsa hater(12 yrs old) but he loved it!!

Helped me make the next batch! It gets to a fizzy point and that was my

favorite. Just like what I had at the restaurant. Never had anything so

fantastic in my life!!

Had to grab a ton of green tomatoes before the rediculous frost, so now

we're about to try making it w/ them. I hope it's as good as the red ones!!!

You must make this!! My son said it made him feel great! It did me too. He

says I should quit the coffe and switch to salsa.

________________________________

From: <labradors@...>

nutrition

Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 8:58:17 AM

Subject: Re: Hi, question about fermented foods from a NEWBIE

Hi ,

How do you make fermented Salsa?

-----

Only ONE place around here has anything fermented, a mexican restaurant,

they have awesome fermented salsa!!!! I mean their salsa really got to me!!

That salsa is why I'm fermenting now. I had never tasted anything like it in

my life! If you like salsa that might be a good place to start, it kinda

sealed the deal for me when my first batch turned out fantastic. Even my son

the salsa hater loved it and was upset when it was gone! Now we're on a

spree! A fermenting spree!

[Guest guest]

I used about half as much salt as she said. Used the amount she said for the

beets and they were way too salty for us.

________________________________

From: <labradors@...>

nutrition

Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 10:34:42 AM

Subject: Re: Hi, question about fermented foods from a NEWBIE

 

Hi ,

Thank you SO much for the recipe. I have the NT book but not with me here

:-(

I think it's great that you didn't use the chile peppers, as I don't know

where I would find them around here. I will grow some next year!

How about the amount of salt? (I'll use some kefir whey, so I certainly

won't use 2 tablespoons of it!) I feel that Sally is a bit heavy handed

with salt, and (to my mind) ruined some fermented marmalade by following her

directions.

I'll be sure to report back when I have made this. I can't wait to make it

:-)

in NT

-----

I got the recipe from Sally Fallon's book Nourishing Traditions:

Makes one quart

4 med tomatoes peeled,seeded & diced

2 sm onions finely chopped

3/4 c chopped chile pepper

6-8 cloves garlic,peeled & chopped

1 bunch cilantro, chopped

1 tsp dried oregano

juice of 2 lemons

1 Tbsp sea salt

4 tablesp whey (if not available use additional 1 Tbsp salt)

1/4 c filtered water

I didn't use the chile pepper, just slivered out some of the green on half a

jalapeno(I have to be able to feed it to a 4 yr old).

I did what the book says for the tomatoes, Blanch and then remove skins.

Won't blanch next time, leaving the skins on & see how it turns out. I

actually quadrupled the recipe to try to fill a gallon jar, ended up w/ a

gallon and a half. Mixed all of it up, put it in the jars.

Pushed down ingredients as much as I could to make them be below the water.

& let it sit on the counter for...I think I let it go for a week. Started

tasting on the 3rd day. Then put it in the fridge and we went through a

gallon & a half in 3 wks! Don't have to worry about it going bad cause it

will be gone too fast. In fact, when we got half way through it I should

have started some more...

SO CRAZY DELICIOUS!!! ! My son is a salsa hater(12 yrs old) but he loved it!!

Helped me make the next batch! It gets to a fizzy point and that was my

favorite. Just like what I had at the restaurant. Never had anything so

fantastic in my life!!

Had to grab a ton of green tomatoes before the rediculous frost, so now

we're about to try making it w/ them. I hope it's as good as the red ones!!!

You must make this!! My son said it made him feel great! It did me too. He

says I should quit the coffe and switch to salsa.

____________ _________ _________ __

From: <labradors@earthlink .net>

nutrition @groups. com

Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 8:58:17 AM

Subject: Re: Hi, question about fermented foods from a NEWBIE

Hi ,

How do you make fermented Salsa?

-----

Only ONE place around here has anything fermented, a mexican restaurant,

they have awesome fermented salsa!!!! I mean their salsa really got to me!!

That salsa is why I'm fermenting now. I had never tasted anything like it in

my life! If you like salsa that might be a good place to start, it kinda

sealed the deal for me when my first batch turned out fantastic. Even my son

the salsa hater loved it and was upset when it was gone! Now we're on a

spree! A fermenting spree!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Glad I asked :-)

-----

I used about half as much salt as she said. Used the amount she said for the

beets and they were way too salty for us.

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>Hi ,

>

>How do you make fermented Salsa?

I'm not (nor do I play her on TV), but:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Salsa_%28fermented%29

Simple and easy, requires no whey or other starter.

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

The planet is in a pickle, but fermenting will help save us

[Guest guest]

Hood wrote:

>If anybody else has experimented w/ zuchini Please please post to let

>me know what I might expect.

Well, we threw some sliced zucchini into the last salsa we fermented,

and they were very nice in that

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn "

- The Wee Book of Calvin

[Guest guest]

Hi Ross,

That looks like an interesting recipe. Thanks :-)

Does anyone know why the suggest using non-iodized salt?????

-----

>

> I'm not (nor do I play her on TV), but:

>

> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Salsa_%28fermented%29

>

> Simple and easy, requires no whey or other starter.

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> Does anyone know why the suggest using non-iodized salt?????

Hi, -

It's my understanding that iodine can turn things dark, not

very appetizing.

Robin

--Robin , in the Northwoods of Wisconsin

http://www.NorthwoodsWeaving.com

[Guest guest]

Because it is not a natural form of iodine that is used in iodized salt. That

doesn't mean that the ferment won't work just as well. It's just better not to

feed yourself poison or something less than healthy.

Tonio

Hi Ross,

That looks like an interesting recipe. Thanks :-)

Does anyone know why the suggest using non-iodized salt?????

-----

>

> I'm not (nor do I play her on TV), but:

>

> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Salsa_%28fermented%29

>

> Simple and easy, requires no whey or other starter.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Tonio,

I'll return the big tub of iodized salt that I just bought! I couldn't

decide whether to get iodized or not (I mainly use it to gargle with when I

have a sore throat!! {LOL})

-----

> Because it is not a natural form of iodine that is used in iodized salt.

> That doesn't mean that the ferment won't work just as well. It's just

> better not to feed yourself poison or something less than healthy.

[Guest guest]

It's anti bacterial which is why it works on your sore throat -- and why

it's no good for your ferments

Sally

wrote:

> Thanks Tonio,

>

> I'll return the big tub of iodized salt that I just bought! I couldn't

> decide whether to get iodized or not (I mainly use it to gargle with when I

> have a sore throat!! {LOL})

>

>

>

> -----

>

>> Because it is not a natural form of iodine that is used in iodized salt.

>> That doesn't mean that the ferment won't work just as well. It's just

>> better not to feed yourself poison or something less than healthy.

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well now I'm so confused! However, I have a bigger problem to deal

with.....

I bought the first batch from Walmart, (cheap and cheerful for gargling).

However, the first time I used it to gargle with, I discovered they had

added SUGAR in the form of dextrose. I found it revolting and planned to

return it with my complaints. However, the next time I was out shopping, I

picked up a container of Morton's salt. I could swear that I read the label

on the Morton's salt, but then I had the conundrum of whether to buy Iodized

or not. I must have grabbed the Iodized one without checking the label and

darn it if that doesn't contain dextrose too! Back to Walmart with both

tubs of salt!!!!!

-----

> It's anti bacterial which is why it works on your sore throat -- and why

> it's no good for your ferments

> Sally

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>Does anyone know why the suggest using non-iodized salt?????

The iodine in the salt is a mild antibacterial. In the very small

quantities in iodised salt, it is very mild -- almost insignificant. You

can happily use iodised salt, but for " best results " non-iodised is

recommended. It's all about giving your ferments the best chance.

If you have a pile of iodised salt, just use it -- don't worry! But when

you've finished that lot, buy some non-iodised salt next time. I buy it

here as pickling salt, it has no iodine or anti-caking agent in it.

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn "

- The Wee Book of Calvin

[Guest guest]

Thanks Ross,

I'll look for the pickling salt next time :-)

-----

> If you have a pile of iodised salt, just use it -- don't worry! But when

> you've finished that lot, buy some non-iodised salt next time. I buy it

> here as pickling salt, it has no iodine or anti-caking agent in it.

>

[Guest guest]

Ditto. I did have a writup once about using iodized salt in ferments,

where they tried traditional ferments with iodized salt.

Generally, it works FINE. My Korean friend in high school used

iodized salt to make kimchi, and her kimchi was great.

There are some circumstances where the iodine causes the

ferment to turn color, which I guess is the issue. And the anti-caking

agents can float to the top and look like mold (I had that happen once,

but not with Morton's). I do experiment with these things though,

and the fermenting microbes really don't seem to care about

small amounts of iodine (or seaweed, which has iodine).

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Ross McKay <rosko@...> wrote:

> wrote:

>

>>Does anyone know why the suggest using non-iodized salt?????

>

> The iodine in the salt is a mild antibacterial. In the very small

> quantities in iodised salt, it is very mild -- almost insignificant. You

> can happily use iodised salt, but for " best results " non-iodised is

> recommended. It's all about giving your ferments the best chance.

>

> If you have a pile of iodised salt, just use it -- don't worry! But when

> you've finished that lot, buy some non-iodised salt next time. I buy it

> here as pickling salt, it has no iodine or anti-caking agent in it.

> --

> Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

> " Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn "

> - The Wee Book of Calvin

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- In nutrition ,

[Guest guest]

My salt of choice is " furikake " ... a Japanese invention. It's basically

flaked seaweed plus toasted seseme seeds, shredded dried

bonito, and/or whatever else one wants. It IS salty, but it also

has a ton of other flavors. Way, way better than any salt I've

tried, plus it's loaded with iodine. That's in my saltshaker at

the table!

>

> Very true.  May I also add that if you are living in a goiter belt region,

whether in the USA or elsewhere, please do not eradicate all iodized salt.  When

I hear friends rave about this salt and that salt, and this is the purest form,

and this is an elite brand, and this and that, and they swim in pools and live

on salt free diets, I wonder where their children or they themselves are headed

health wise? I simply say this having moved into what I know is a goiter prone

region and so now by choice have iodized salt in my pantry

>

> I would recommend you research " where " you abide in terms of the type of salt

to use and not just for fermentation, which salt as says really does not

change for most people the results of their fermenting foods.

>

> PS: I saw a picture of someone's pantry and the shelf where they stored their

salts.  IT WAS ABSOLUTELY A PRETTY SIGHT!!! All the hues of salt from locations

around the world...so many pretty colors.  Very, very lovely to see and to use.

>

> Cheerio - have a lovely day ahead.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

<Twist@...> wrote:

> My salt of choice is " furikake " ... a Japanese invention. It's basically

> flaked seaweed plus toasted seseme seeds, shredded dried

> bonito, and/or whatever else one wants.

* * * * * * *

Been there, done that and thanks so much for mentioning it for I should bring

it back to our dinner table. Of the different choices, the last container had

what seemed to be more fish scales than other goodies, perhaps just my reaction

to the texture of that one jar. It did glisten and gleam in the light and I am

sure that it had an awful lot of scales ground up/flaked. Anyway, typically I

have NOT had that negative reaction so I should make myself forget and go back

to it. It was just so unusually more gritty.

For one of our children I actually was using that instead of sugar on his

oatmeal.

By the way, thanks so much for your input on so much...and this thanks goes to

so many of you others as well. I appreciate you all.

[Guest guest]

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:05 AM, gladhearted <gladhearted@...> wrote:

> Been there, done that and thanks so much for mentioning it for I should

bring it back to our dinner table.  Of the different choices, the last container

had what seemed to be more fish scales than other goodies, perhaps just my

reaction to the texture of that one jar.  It did glisten and gleam in the light

and I am sure that it had an awful lot of scales ground up/flaked.  Anyway,

typically I have NOT had that negative reaction so I should make myself forget

and go back to it.  It was just so unusually more gritty.

There really are many kinds of furikake. Some have MSG and sugar, or

panko crumbs. But I make my own.

> For one of our children I actually was using that instead of sugar on his

oatmeal.

I was surprised the kids like it! But it is yummy.

> By the way, thanks so much for your input on so much...and this thanks goes to

so many of you others as well.  I appreciate you all.

We do have a great group here!