Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Hi Ed, OK, that I can do. I'm making it in a pint jar. How much would you suggest for ratios and how long would you brew it for before putting it in the fridge? This was a dried culture that I received, and I was told that it would sort itself out in a " while " - hmmmm! and the K9's try cool temperatures and higher ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Good stuff Brock, Another idea for me to try :-) You mention a couple of things that I had forgotten i.e. swishing the viili around the jar to coat it, and taking the new starter batch from the bottom of the jar. Perhaps I am too set in my kefir-making ways, and consider a jar, coated with old kefir is good to re-innoculate my new batch so I re-use it. Perhaps I need a clean jar for each batch of viili????? It's interesting that you say that raw milk produces a superior product. Not that I have access to any, but people in the past were having difficulty using raw milk (unless they heated it up first) because of too many competing bacteria - at least that's what I understood at the time. Regards, and the K9's I recently had the same thing occur with my villi. In my instance it was simply a question of a weakened or contaminated culture. So I tried a modified concept that I learned from sour dough cultures called washing a culture. Basically it is simply that I would use a generous amount of starter say 3/4 to one cup per 3 cups of milk. Then mix this well and pour off about half of the mixture and refill with just milk. I also dip the culture from the bottom of the container to discourage any contaminants that may have landed on the top. Let it cycle for 18 to 24 hours. Sometimes it does separate a little etc but the point at this juncture is not producing a consumable culture but simply trying to nourish and strengthen a weakened culture. After the allotted time I repeat the process above. After the second washing I noticed a distinct improvement and the third one was a perfect batch. Then I returned to the original method of coating the inside edge of the jar and approx 6 tblspns to 3 cups milk and letting it culture for 24 hours. I have done villi with both pasteurized and raw milk and have found time and again that the raw produces a consistently superior product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I think it depends on the milk. The bacteria that makes villi (Leuconostoc) seems to come in several strains. If the cow happens to host the " correct " strain you'll get the nice ropey version. Or else not. Your kitchen (or even your village) could get innoculated with one version or another of this (or another) bacteria. Or microphage. This will affect your product. This is why cheeses, in the old days were known by the village name. The cheese changed, depending on the cow/ barn/ kitchen where it was produced. In more modern times, we've learned to kill native microbes in the milk, and make " starters " of the microbes, so cheese of a certain type can be made anywhere. But ... when we make kefir/viili/cheese at random, you are doing what Sandor Katz calls " wild fermentation " and you get whatever is local to YOU. This can be a good thing, in my book (I think bacteriophages are a big deal). But it might also mean that YOUR viili doesn't meet the platonic ideal of ropiness. On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 2:41 PM, <labradors@...> wrote: > Good stuff Brock, > > Another idea for me to try :-) You mention a couple of things that I had forgotten i.e. swishing the viili around the jar to coat it, and taking the new starter batch from the bottom of the jar. Perhaps I am too set in my kefir-making ways, and consider a jar, coated with old kefir is good to re-innoculate my new batch so I re-use it. Perhaps I need a clean jar for each batch of viili????? > > It's interesting that you say that raw milk produces a superior product. Not that I have access to any, but people in the past were having difficulty using raw milk (unless they heated it up first) because of too many competing bacteria - at least that's what I understood at the time. > > Regards, > and the K9's > > > I recently had the same thing occur with my villi. In my instance it was simply a question of a weakened or contaminated culture. So I tried a modified concept that I learned from sour dough cultures called washing a culture. Basically it is simply that I would use a generous amount of starter say 3/4 to one cup per 3 cups of milk. Then mix this well and pour off about half of the mixture and refill with just milk. I also dip the culture from the bottom of the container to discourage any contaminants that may have landed on the top. Let it cycle for 18 to 24 hours. Sometimes it does separate a little etc but the point at this juncture is not producing a consumable culture but simply trying to nourish and strengthen a weakened culture. After the allotted time I repeat the process above. After the second washing I noticed a distinct improvement and the third one was a perfect batch. Then I returned to the original method of coating the inside edge of the jar and approx 6 tblspns to 3 cups milk and letting it culture for 24 hours. I have done villi with both pasteurized and raw milk and have found time and again that the raw produces a consistently superior product. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I bought some kefir grains and used them in raw goats milk. They took some time to get used to this. For a while I thought they had something wrong with them. But now, after maybe a year, they flourish and are well. I think they had been grown in pasteurized cows milk and just took some time to adapt to their new environment. Sally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 maybe it's the raw rather than pasteurized which is more important. Pasteurized would be free from competing bacteria so maybe kefir grains raised in that medium tend to be less competitive -- less " fit " -- and don't manage so well when transferred to a raw environment Sally maartendeprez wrote: >> I bought some kefir grains and used them in raw goats milk. They took >> some time to get used to this. For a while I thought they had something >> wrong with them. But now, after maybe a year, they flourish and are >> well. I think they had been grown in pasteurized cows milk and just >> > took > >> some time to adapt to their new environment. >> > > Interesting. I tried this a few times, when i could get it. My Kefir > had no problems at all to adapt from raw cows milk to raw goats milk. > It instead seemed to flourish immediately. According to Dom's site, > goats milk is the traditional environment of Kefir; so i supposed it > was quite normal for it to do well this way. It could be my grains > were recently cultured in goatsmilk from time to time, before i got them. > > > Greetings, > Maarten > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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