Re: My green tomato pickles smell like beer

[Guest guest]

Everything I've ever made with tomatoes has smelled, and tasted, like beer. I

don't know if

that necessarily means the yeast took over...? Anyway, I've appreciated it very

much, since

I can't drink beer. The best was actually some V8 juice that I fermented.

Mike

>

> My green tomato pickles smell like beer, and there's white filmy stuff

> both atop and submerged in the liquid. I'm guessing the yeasts took

> over. Do you think this still might be good? These are fermented using

> salt brine and some starter liquid from last year's wonderful green

> tomato pickles.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Probably yeast, yes. Tomatoes are pretty high

in sugar I think, and not very acid. Making salsa

and then fermenting it (adding peppers esp) might

help, or more salt/vinegar/kraut juice.

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:33 AM, captainmikee <captainmikee@...> wrote:

> Everything I've ever made with tomatoes has smelled, and tasted, like beer. I

don't know if

> that necessarily means the yeast took over...? Anyway, I've appreciated it

very much, since

> I can't drink beer. The best was actually some V8 juice that I fermented.

>

> Mike

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Everything I've ever made with tomatoes has smelled, and tasted,

like beer. I don't know if

> that necessarily means the yeast took over...? Anyway, I've

appreciated it very much, since

> I can't drink beer. The best was actually some V8 juice that I

fermented.

>

> Mike

So .... y'all think these would still be good to eat, then? I put

them in the fridge to await judgement.

The batch I made last year did NOT smell/taste like beer. They were

wonderful, like olives but more sour. I couldn't find the recipe that

I used last year, and I suspect that this batch, made from a different

recipe, had rather less salt than last year's.

[Guest guest]

> I can't drink beer. The best was actually some V8 juice that I

fermented.

>

> Mike

What did you use to get the ferment started?

[Guest guest]

--- In nutrition , "

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>My green tomato pickles smell like beer, and there's white filmy stuff

>both atop and submerged in the liquid. I'm guessing the yeasts took

>over. Do you think this still might be good? These are fermented using

>salt brine and some starter liquid from last year's wonderful green

>tomato pickles.

I'd reckon that the last things standing in your last year's ferment

took command in your new ferment. Having built up a good yeast

population last year, they were ready to take off again once given more

sugars.

This is why sometimes it's best to let a ferment start with whatever is

around on the ingredients to start with. A starter culture is good when

you need to introduce something to get it all going, but otherwise,

leave it to nature.

I tend to add a dribble of kefir to cooked mashed sweet potato, dosa

batter, bread batter / dough, and sugar water ferments, and I introduce

the specific mould starters to tempeh and miso, but sauerkraut, kimchi,

salsa and similar all get themselves going with whatever came along on

the fresh ingredients.

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

The planet is in a pickle, but fermenting will help save us

[Guest guest]

>

> >My green tomato pickles smell like beer, and there's white filmy stuff

> >both atop and submerged in the liquid. I'm guessing the yeasts took

> >over. Do you think this still might be good? These are fermented

using

> >salt brine and some starter liquid from last year's wonderful green

> >tomato pickles.

>

> I'd reckon that the last things standing in your last year's ferment

> took command in your new ferment. Having built up a good yeast

> population last year, they were ready to take off again once given more

> sugars.

>

> This is why sometimes it's best to let a ferment start with whatever is

> around on the ingredients to start with. A starter culture is good when

> you need to introduce something to get it all going, but otherwise,

> leave it to nature.

>

> I tend to add a dribble of kefir to cooked mashed sweet potato, dosa

> batter, bread batter / dough, and sugar water ferments, and I introduce

> the specific mould starters to tempeh and miso, but sauerkraut, kimchi,

> salsa and similar all get themselves going with whatever came along on

> the fresh ingredients.

> --

> Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

> The planet is in a pickle, but fermenting will help save us

>

Ah ... that makes sense. Would you trust the tomatoes to have enough

" whatever is around " ? I have napa cabbage growing in the garden, so I

was thinking of throwing a few of those leaves in to help.

[Guest guest]

G'day ,

>Ah ... that makes sense. Would you trust the tomatoes to have enough

> " whatever is around " ? I have napa cabbage growing in the garden, so I

>was thinking of throwing a few of those leaves in to help.

Well, " Keeping Food Fresh " (or that other name it's been republished

under... " Preserving Food Without Freezing or Canning " ) has a couple of

recipes where they ferment tomatoes. One that comes to mind has *just*

crushed tomatoes in it, with salt added after the crushed ferment is

pushed through a sieve,* so I reckon they should be OK with just salt

added.

I make that fermented salsa that Maarten posted a link to, and it

ferments quite furiously after a day or so. However, I add fresh herbs

(either coriander leaf or basil) and I reckon that stuff drags along a

good crop of microbes to kick things off.

Cabbage - hmmm... maybe, but then you'd get that cabbage smell / flavour

too. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course but fresh

herbs will do the job just as well and with more complementary flavours.

* pushing food through a sieve... Earlier this year, I watched a

documentary from the UK called The n Kitchen. Crikey, what an

amazing waste of time and energy, just to keep the wealthy ns in

the manner in which they'd become accustomed. As a mate put it, the

amount of work seemed to expand to fill the available women-hours,

including forever pushing stuff through sieves. It was as if nothing was

allowed to have any texture at all! Probably bad teeth from all that

cheap sugar flooding the Empire thanks to slavery...

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water;

After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water " - Wu Li

[Guest guest]

I can't remember. I think it might have been some juice from my

fermented salsa. But I don't think it makes much difference.

Having tried pretty much everything I've made as a fermentation

starter, I've concluded that the only thing that really changes things

is the presence of onions. If you have fermented something with onions

it it, don't use it as a starter unless you want some onion flavor in

your new ferment!

Mike

>

> > I can't drink beer. The best was actually some V8 juice that I

> fermented.

> >

> > Mike

>

> What did you use to get the ferment started?

>

[Guest guest]

In my experience, acidity is more important than cultures. Both salt

and acid help to encourage the right organisms to grow. I think they

both discourage yeast, but I'm not 100% sure.

Tomatoes are notoriously not acidic enough for hot canning, but they

might have enough for fermentation.

> >

> > >My green tomato pickles smell like beer, and there's white filmy

stuff

> > >both atop and submerged in the liquid. I'm guessing the yeasts took

> > >over. Do you think this still might be good? These are fermented

> using

> > >salt brine and some starter liquid from last year's wonderful green

> > >tomato pickles.

> >

> > I'd reckon that the last things standing in your last year's ferment

> > took command in your new ferment. Having built up a good yeast

> > population last year, they were ready to take off again once given

more

> > sugars.

> >

> > This is why sometimes it's best to let a ferment start with

whatever is

> > around on the ingredients to start with. A starter culture is good

when

> > you need to introduce something to get it all going, but otherwise,

> > leave it to nature.

> >

> > I tend to add a dribble of kefir to cooked mashed sweet potato, dosa

> > batter, bread batter / dough, and sugar water ferments, and I

introduce

> > the specific mould starters to tempeh and miso, but sauerkraut,

kimchi,

> > salsa and similar all get themselves going with whatever came along on

> > the fresh ingredients.

> > --

> > Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

> > The planet is in a pickle, but fermenting will help save us

> >

>

> Ah ... that makes sense. Would you trust the tomatoes to have enough

> " whatever is around " ? I have napa cabbage growing in the garden, so I

> was thinking of throwing a few of those leaves in to help.

>

[Guest guest]

In PFWFC (I liked the old title better!) it also recommends

fermenting tomatoes by immersing whole unblemished

tomatoes in olive oil. My question about this might be

what kind of tomatoes they were using in France ... the

older home-grown tomatoes were high in acid and sugar,

hence the nice flavor. Now they are bland and insipid,

and I would guess, more prone to mold or yeast.

Also, tomatoes grown without nitrate fertilizer ... using

compost or humus ... are more " concentrated " . Nitrates

tend to force the fruit to get water-bloated for the same

reason diabetes does that to humans ... the plant tries

to water-down the nitrate content because it tends to

absorb too much. Water-bloated fruit is bigger and

heavier, which of course makes more money, but it

also changes the fermenting.

I was reading an article about the Fetzer wineries. They

experimented with organic grapes. To their surprise

the organic grapes made a better wine ... more flavor.

Anyway, we've been noticing this in our home-grown

produce. It's mainly fertilized with old hay from the

chicken or goat sheds, or from the chickens running

around, and the taste is really concentrated (also

the plants don't get bug or mold damage much ...

but having chickens running around also decimates

the bug population). I'm looking forward to getting some

tomatoes done this way, see how THEY ferment!

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 11:51 PM, Ross McKay <rosko@...> wrote:

> G'day ,

>

>>Ah ... that makes sense. Would you trust the tomatoes to have enough

>> " whatever is around " ? I have napa cabbage growing in the garden, so I

>>was thinking of throwing a few of those leaves in to help.

>

> Well, " Keeping Food Fresh " (or that other name it's been republished

> under... " Preserving Food Without Freezing or Canning " ) has a couple of

> recipes where they ferment tomatoes. One that comes to mind has *just*

> crushed tomatoes in it, with salt added after the crushed ferment is

> pushed through a sieve,* so I reckon they should be OK with just salt

> added.

>

> I make that fermented salsa that Maarten posted a link to, and it

> ferments quite furiously after a day or so. However, I add fresh herbs

> (either coriander leaf or basil) and I reckon that stuff drags along a

> good crop of microbes to kick things off.

>

> Cabbage - hmmm... maybe, but then you'd get that cabbage smell / flavour

> too. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course but fresh

> herbs will do the job just as well and with more complementary flavours.

>

> * pushing food through a sieve... Earlier this year, I watched a

> documentary from the UK called The n Kitchen. Crikey, what an

> amazing waste of time and energy, just to keep the wealthy ns in

> the manner in which they'd become accustomed. As a mate put it, the

> amount of work seemed to expand to fill the available women-hours,

> including forever pushing stuff through sieves. It was as if nothing was

> allowed to have any texture at all! Probably bad teeth from all that

> cheap sugar flooding the Empire thanks to slavery...

> --

> Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

[Guest guest]

I made some roasted peppers for fermenting the other day and I was

tempted to try fermenting them in oil instead of water. But I didn't

know if that was actually possible. Now I'm curious - has anyone tried it?

Mike

>

>