Re: Aflatoxin (was Miso...)

[Guest guest]

Aflatoxin is a potent carcinogen. Peanuts, corn and other nuts and

grains (organic or not) in the US are often contaminated by some amount

of aflatoxin; a mycotoxin produced by a number of species in the

Aspergillus family of fungi. And being such, it is right on topic with

" Microbial Nutrition. " It can infect plants before harvest, yet poor

storage conditions will certainly increase it. It likes humid, hot

conditions, so Southern crops are just naturally susceptible to it, as

are dairy products of animals fed aflatoxin contaminated feed.

In the US, grain and nut crops intended for human consumption are

inspected for aflatoxin, but who knows if the " action level " is low

enough. And I forget about pet/livestock feed. I mean, aflatoxin can

cause acute illness, but it can also cause chronic issues if taken in

smaller doses over long periods of time.

I eat no grains and limit my consumption of peanuts, but I do enjoy some

Indonesian peanut sauce now and again. Cashew butter works for that as

well. Just use your own discretion, but do educate yourself on the

prevalence of it in foods you and your nonhuman friends consume. It IS

a problem, and most peanuts in the US are contaminated ... just not

enough to be pulled from the store shelves.

http://www.ehso.com/ehshome/aflatoxin.php - a good general description

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/fdaact.html - action levels for human and

animal feed

http://www.ams.usda.gov/Science/TSB/background.htm - USDA peanut

aflatoxin program

http://mycotoxins.org/ - my favorite European mycotoxin site is down

just now

Deanna

[Guest guest]

You bring up some good thoughts and ideas, Deanna, and I am glad to add

to the list that aflatoxins can be destroyed in cereal grains which I am

reasonably certain extends to peanuts and other foods that can be

treated by cooking the suspected food with lye solution, followed with

rinsing and washing the food. It is easily done, and although I do not

want to influence fanaticism, but provide a choice for easy enough

action for our protection and prevention of disease. There may be

instances where one is unable to have a particular choice of food, and

is stuck with let's say, aflatoxin suspected peanuts and maize or pop

corn just as an example. As long as there is clean wood to burn, then

the ash may be used to prepare a simple and effective lye water by

mixing the ash with water, and then cooking the product in the lye

solution for, say, 30 minutes.

Not disputing the dangers of aflatoxins, but to share that these are

very strong carcinogens for rats especially, compared to mice. It is

animal type dependent. Humans are more resistant, although Hepatic

infection such as Hep C apparently markedly raises the risk of

contracting liver cancer with aflatoxin intake in humans. Otherwise it

will take a much higher dose or longer continual smaller dose of

aflatoxin for a healthy individual to contract liver cancer in time, so

I understand.

To share/extend in regards to topic and a simple way to detect/prevent a

potential problem in our common/uncommon foods. This may get long, so be

forewarned--

Last year I purchased a pack of pop corn for popping, and this was a

light blue variety of a long grain pop corn type. It is an uncommon

variety of pop corn maize here in Australia at least. I noticed that

each grain where it was originally attached to the fresh cob, had an

unusually darker colour than I expected to find at the very end white

tip of each grain. I cooked the corn for pop corn and had a taste of one

pop corn only, with a pre-existing suspicion of aflatoxin [tasteless and

colourless in pure form, however, the mold that produces the toxin does

have a moldy taste and aroma, as one would expect]. It was definitely

moldy in flavour-- the flavour was very subtle, but noticeable. The

amount of mold was tiny and the colour was a dark green, which is likely

Aspergillus, and again likely to be an aflatoxin producing mold that one

should not risk in eating. Each and every pop corn grain had this mold

on the tip of the grains! This would have been due to poor storage of

the original corn, while still on the cob, I'd say. I did not take any

risk, so I chucked out the rest of the dry pop corn and told the organic

store owner about it, who is a friend of ours. However, I saw that very

pop corn for sale in two other local organic food stores. Even though I

told the owners of those stores about it, they continued to sell the pop

corn!

One would think that any problem with a product, one would expect it

would be taken off the market and any samples on store shelves would be

recalled and sorted out accordingly.

I was working at a health food store in 1984, where I came across a 50

kg [~120lb] bag of unhulled sesame seed with an unusual bitter flavour

that was sold at the store. I thought it was a rancid batch, or possibly

an unusual mold contamination. I called in a department that dealt with

such matters, and a sample was taken for testing. Results showed that

the sesame seeds contained 7 times the recommended allowance for

" ne " , a pesticide! [which to me should be zero tolerance of any

amount of any pesticide/herbicide in food]. ne was probably added

to the seed by the exporter, to " protect " against pest infestation such

as moths and what not while sitting at the docks or storage facilities.

There was no recall or ceasing sales of seed at any point! The

wholesaler kept selling those same sesame seeds, so I presumed they were

not contacted by any official department in regards to that particular

problem!

And this product was mostly sold through the health food chain, where

one is to expect a healthy product, which is why folks like myself got

involved in shaping the ideology of such an industry in the early days

here in Australia. However, I lost much hope as time went on, with

seeing how the " unappropriated to the original ideal " , or a mind sent,

began to infiltrate the arena of the health food industry-- I mean, look

at where the industry stands today, and compare this to say 30 years

ago! Here in Australia, we have Coles/Myer as a nationwide

organic/health food outlet as part of the trade. This to me is a joke.

What this is doing is putting smaller and mostly original health food

outlets out of business, while Coles/Myer are infiltrating the HF

industry with the sales of truly inferior so labeled organic produce.

While " freshness " may be the motto, it is a misleading.

My question is how much of problem foods that should be taken seriously,

slip by and allowed for sale and consumption [not simply allowed because

levels of unfavorables are acceptable, but those foods that contain

unacceptable amounts of unfavorables getting onto our table?]?! And what

does it take in order to have a product recall, to prevent health

problems for the public? What's sad is a trusting public is the one

paying for ill health or death of loved ones.

For those who grow their produce, or purchase in bulk for long term

storage such as for drying, take care and dehydrate fresh produce as

fresh as possible, and store dry seeds, legumes and other dry food well

to prevent the food from getting wet at any point. This is to prevent

mold growth and aflatoxins on dry foods.

With grains such as rice, or legumes of any type, go through the grains

and legumes and discard any broken or discoloured pieces. It does not

take long and worth taking the time. I was raised this way, as I recall

coming home from school and helping my mother sort out discoloured or

damaged legumes for preparing things like barlotti beans with wild weed

dishes such as sow milk thistle for the evening's meal. I've passed this

on to our almost 3 y/o daughter, and she too enjoys lending a helping hand.

And one other thing. Many traditional Asian dishes which include rice,

meats and some legumes, are cooked with the addition of lye. This is why

you can find a now commercial brand of lye water at most Asian grocery

stores, which replaces wood ash lye water of times gone by. Apart from

giving the lye cooked product a specific character, such as tenderizing

meat, cooked rice with firmness, or a nice flaky pastry of Chinese moon

cakes etc. etc., there is the matter of destroying aflatoxins here too.

With maize cooked in lye as in the traditional American Indian method or

massa, not only are aflatoxins destroyed, there is another important

benefit and that is the release of 2 specific amino acids and a specific

Vit B, Niacin. These nutrients are found in abundance in maize but are

biologically unavailable unless cooked with lye. In fact, if one was to

make maize a staple and the maize is not cooked with lye water, then the

individual will soon contract Pelegra, due to Niacin deficiency.

However, the American Indians worked this out, so prepared maize by

cooking in lye water, which prevented Pelegra. This method also gives

the maize a character, and that is the dough has some elasticity, for

use of a better term. and can be worked more better for tortilla making.

These nutrients are locked in maize, but are released by the action of

cooking in lye water. I think that this may also be true for other

grains and legumes, that the cooking in lye may well release certain

nutrients and or destroy unfavourable compounds yet to be discovered [or

researched].

In the Hunza valley where folks [Hunzakuts] lived to a ripe old age with

little to no known disease, what sets this area apart from adjoining

areas where folks were often sick nor did they live to the same age as

the Hunzakuts, is *water quality*. Hunzakuts used water that was milky

white, due to high levels of calcium and magnesium. This came about from

glacial water passing through rich lime stone areas leaching those

alkaline forming minerals in the water, while adjoining areas the water

passed through granite, and the water was not milky but clear, and

classified as acid forming due to the specific minerals found in the water.

If we observe that the Hunza valley water is similar to lye, although it

is not alkaline as is true lye water, however, cooking food with this

milky water may well share a similar outcome as with cooking with lye

water. This may destroy aflatoxins in grains/legumes while at the same

time possibly releasing biologically unavailable nutrients in certain

foods that are cooked in that milky white water.

Joining the dots together makes be think of these possibilities, and

that is the traditional methods which incorporates cooking, ash was

involved, and the discovery of benefits of ash would have come about by

sheer accident, where ash was simply able to get into the cooked food

due wood fire cooking. We may also consider how charcoal is used for

cleaning teeth by the Australian Aboriginees et al, again, learned and

adopted by accident. These are rediscovered, in my mind and lifestyle at

least.

Be-well,

Dom

yoginidd typed:

> Aflatoxin is a potent carcinogen. Peanuts, corn and other nuts and

> grains (organic or not) in the US are often contaminated by some amount

> of aflatoxin; a mycotoxin produced by a number of species in the

> Aspergillus family of fungi. And being such, it is right on topic with

> " Microbial Nutrition. " It can infect plants before harvest, yet poor

> storage conditions will certainly increase it. It likes humid, hot

> conditions, so Southern crops are just naturally susceptible to it, as

> are dairy products of animals fed aflatoxin contaminated feed.

>

> In the US, grain and nut crops intended for human consumption are

> inspected for aflatoxin, but who knows if the " action level " is low

> enough. And I forget about pet/livestock feed. I mean, aflatoxin can

> cause acute illness, but it can also cause chronic issues if taken in

> smaller doses over long periods of time.

>

> I eat no grains and limit my consumption of peanuts, but I do enjoy some

> Indonesian peanut sauce now and again. Cashew butter works for that as

> well. Just use your own discretion, but do educate yourself on the

> prevalence of it in foods you and your nonhuman friends consume. It IS

> a problem, and most peanuts in the US are contaminated ... just not

> enough to be pulled from the store shelves.

>

> http://www.ehso.com/ehshome/aflatoxin.php - a good general description

> http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/fdaact.html - action levels for human and

> animal feed

> http://www.ams.usda.gov/Science/TSB/background.htm - USDA peanut

> aflatoxin program

> http://mycotoxins.org/ - my favorite European mycotoxin site is down

> just now

> Deanna

[Guest guest]

As usual, Dom, you have provided rich, thoughtful insights. I have not

been able to find much information on using lye to remove aflatoxin, but

apparently, the aflatoxin risk to Central Americans is reduced due to

the very practice you recommend of treating foods with alkali. It is

probably quite true that ash used to get into the food of ancient

peoples, thus providing a natural method of " treatment " against

contamination. I would love to learn more about this particular

practice, and will have to search harder for more. The information you

have offered is a great appetizer in this regard. Historical food

practices are just fascinating to learn about, and there is always

wisdom just waiting to be discovered!

It is rather alarming that stores will continue to knowingly sell a

product that is contaminated or rancid. Of course, buying flours and

shelled nuts from bins in the market probably guarantees a much

nutritionally depleted, bordering on toxic product.

I live in the US state of Texas, which is an area of concern for molds

of various types. Peanuts, cotton and other crops that attract fungi

are grown here. I recently purchased 10 lbs of unshelled pecans from a

local grower (I really need to get some pecan trees on my property).

Presently they reside in a paper bag. How should I store them long

term? Is freezing worthwhile in the shell? My son shells them for me

as we use them, and the hulls make a nice mulch for the garden - an

absolute necessity in our hellish summers. I have never noted an off

taste or color of the pecans, yet I thank you for describing the subtle

changes that an aflatoxin contaminated food item displays. I will watch

for it.

I do grow plums, peaches and apricots, which we eat fresh and then

freeze the ample extras. Drying is not an option for the dozens of

gallons we receive. We will be eating peach cobbler until next spring!

It is early autumn now here, which in this particular region is ideal

for greens and other vegetables. We grow big Napa cabbages, pickling

cucumbers, golden and red beets, carrots, mustard for greens, arugula

(also called rocket), dill, coriander and a few other goodies. Spring

tends to be short here and greens will bolt then. But with the long,

mild autumn, we will eat salad greens through year's end, hopefully. I

will attempt some legume crops in the spring. Black-eyed peas grow well

here, and I do wonder about lentils, black beans and chick peas -

personal favorites of mine. My feeble attempt at buckwheat failed, but

it was a drought year when I tried it. Our water is quite hard well

water, and rain just does a much better job with the plants in general.

Thankfully, we have gotten much rain this year - about 2 inches

yesterday alone! I have read of drought in Australia, is that a big

problem now?

All the best,

Deanna

[Guest guest]

That is really interesting about the Hunza. I've heard similar

things about other cultures that use glacial runoff.

I would like to add that the glacial runoff, and some of the " sea

salts " contain what is basically a clay. Bentonite clay

is currently used in animal feed specifically to *conteract

aflatoxins*. It does so quite effectively. It seems to counteract

other stuff too ... anyway, the animals that get clay grow faster

and are healthier, so they aren't losing nutrients (which is

what some folks are saying about clay: if you eat it with

a meal it might absorb nutrients. However, that just doesn't

seem to happen in animals, unless they get something

like 20% of their diet being clay, or the wrong kind of clay

is used).

Now, animals in the wild get clay naturally, because

they are around dirt a lot. Animals on farms these days

don't always, because they are raised on concrete. Most of

us humans don't get clay anymore either, esp. folks in

cities.

But you can add a pinch to your salt shaker, or take

some with meals. I've been doing that, and it seems to

solve a lot of problems. (Soaking grains in lye isn't a bad

idea either ... esp. corn: soaking it in lye does some good

internal stuff that allows more vitamins to be absorbed too).

My general take is that ALL food has some toxins, esp.

plant foods. Mold is very difficult to avoid, and there are

other things, as you mentioned, such as fungicides.

There is also the solanine in potatoes, and oxalic acid

in greens, bromine. Clay and seaweed are both substances

that seem to bind to toxins before they get absorbed.

--

On 10/15/07, Dominic N Anfiteatro <dna@...> wrote:

>

> In the Hunza valley where folks [Hunzakuts] lived to a ripe old age with

> little to no known disease, what sets this area apart from adjoining

> areas where folks were often sick nor did they live to the same age as

> the Hunzakuts, is *water quality*. Hunzakuts used water that was milky

> white, due to high levels of calcium and magnesium. This came about from

> glacial water passing through rich lime stone areas leaching those

> alkaline forming minerals in the water, while adjoining areas the water

> passed through granite, and the water was not milky but clear, and

> classified as acid forming due to the specific minerals found in the water.

>

[Guest guest]

I like the thought of clay. But how would it know that it was binding to

toxins and not to all sorts of other maybe useful things?

Sally

[Guest guest]

On 10/19/07, Eva family <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:

> I like the thought of clay. But how would it know that it was binding to

> toxins and not to all sorts of other maybe useful things?

> Sally

Yeah, well, that is the mystery here! I don't know either.

It might be a little like, well, bacteria and acid. It just so

happens that the bacteria that are acid-tolerant also

happen to be the ones that are typically not harmful

to humans, so they are the ones we use to ferment

food. But they are also the ones that can slip past

the stomach, which is very acid. So we tend to get along

with acid bacteria.

We (and most other creatures on earth) seem to be

designed to get along with clay too. Which make sense,

because we've been eating it, living on it, had it on our

skin, etc. for eons.

But the question has been studied in livestock, and

the thing is, the livestock just do better on clay,

so the clay doesn't seem to be absorbing anything

the livestock need. They do say though, not to take

it with medications (for livestock) because it does

interfere with some drugs.

--

[Guest guest]

wowsers, just watched a planet earth show with my family and they showed

forest elephants and other animals in the congo coming to a rare forest

clearing to consume clay from the bottom of the water hole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_Earth_(TV_series)

In the Congo <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo>, roaming forest

elephants<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Forest_Elephant>are

shown reaching a clearing to feed on essential

clay <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay> minerals within the mud.

we sure can learn a lot from observation of what animals do naturally since

we seem so far removed from natural ourselves these days.

thanks,

oliver...

On 10/18/07,

[Guest guest]

So what else is bentonite clay good for besides minerals. I assume it's fit for

human consumption?

I have Morning Star minerals here that are supposed to be earth derived

minerals. So much to explore and learn. Very interesting about the elephants and

the clay.

millie

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Yes, the glacial runoff, but more importantly runoff over " limestone "

seems to be the key factor with the Hunzakuts and their reasonably good

health and long life, at least. Bentonite clay, I believe, works similar

to activated charcoal, in that it has a charge in which through cation

exchange, it absorbs specific charged ions, mostly of the organic

variety, so I believe. So organic compounds some of which are toxins,

are absorbed. by the clay or activated charcoal.

I saved a young wild dove about a year ago, which was brought to me by a

young lad visiting his grandmother living next door to us. On observing

the young dove, it was limp with very slow breathing, it was almost

dead. I could not find any sign of injury, so i took the chance in

thinking it ate poison. I have activated charcoal which I prepare with

by activating it with kefir-whey, and this charcoal has an effective

ability for cation exchange, similar to a commercial activated charcoal

used by vets at drs to treat poisoning. I wet some activated charcoal

and made a wet paste and then with a small syringe, I forced some of

this down the dove's mouth. I then gave it mouth to beak resuscitation

to make sure there was not charcoal gone past down the windpipe, and

then I swung the bird in a gentle circular motion, around my head, to

dislodge any charcoal from its windpipe. I've done the same when I saved

a kid whom was drowning at a local beach many years ago--- the outgoing

centrifugal force removes liquid from the lungs and the windpipe [it

just come to me at the time with the young lad I found close to drowning].

I left the bird for a few hours, and then when I came back to it, it

flew out of the box it was in, and was a healthy feisty bird, so I/we

let it go.

This outcome would have been due to the activated charcoal, which must

have absorbed the poison from the bird's stomach, which I suspected it

ate. So, it is similar to bentonite clay in action, but I think

activated charcoal has a stronger action.

There is also a similar clay to bentonite found in certain parts of

Northern USA, which has an even stronger cation exchange action than

bentonite, but I can not recall the name if this particular clay.

Yes, wild animals are renowned to eat clay and dirt, and so are young

children and the Australian aboriginees. There are specific areas in

Australia that were/are chosen for the clay that they ate, and possibly

used as body paint and other artwork too. It's all very interesting indeed.

Be-well,

Dom

[Guest guest]

Hi Deanna,

I have a full text of a paper I obtained in 1984, when I was interested

in preparing traditional tortillas with tempeh, which mentions the

destruction of aflatoxin in lime treated corn. The paper referred to one

particular research--

" Ulloa-Sosa, M.; Schroeder, H.N. Cereal Chemistry. 1969, Vol. 46, pp 397. "

The paper I have is very complete and discusses many areas of Lime

treatment or a variety of corn types, which extends to the possibility

of lime-treating other starchy foods. This paper is from a book, which I

can not recall the title, but the chapter is titled--

" The Role of Lime in the Alkaline Treatment of Corn for Tortilla

Preparation.

Augusto Trejo-, Feria-Morales, Wild-Altamirano,

Dept of food Res, Center of Research & Teaching for Agriculture & Food

Engineering, Uni of Guanajuato, Irapuato, Guanajuato, Mexico. [Copyright

1982 American Chemical Society] "

It may well be worth your while freezing pecan nuts, but it would be

ideal to make certain that they are well dried and that they do not get

wet at the near end of harvest time, while still on the tree [and during

storage]. And then keep them fresh without freezing. Seed, cereals and

nuts are best stored in large heshen bags [or hemp bags as my parents

used to make and use in Italy during/post WW2], hung high off the ground.

You're fortunate to have good rain, we've had a day or two of rain,

which was very much needed, since this drought has been with us for

about 2 years. We need much more rain though, for this last rain barely

did anything here in the Adelaide plains where we live.

Thanks for sharing your story of what you enjoy/are able for planting.

The arugula caught my eye most. I am fond of a wild type of arugula,

which grows in winter and summer, it is not a true arugula, but has a

similar somewhat stonger flavour and bite than rocket or the Italian

arugula with the bone colour flower.

This variety has smaller yellow flowers than arugula. Here's a photo of

a plant that loves growing in cracks and crevasses, but does not do well

seeded by hand in our side-of-house herb garden [left of Brahmi on right]-

http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/misc/wild-rucola2.jpg

You can see a young seed capsule forming in the center of the plant. It

grows in most areas worldwide.

Be-well

Dom

yoginidd typed:

> As usual, Dom, you have provided rich, thoughtful insights. I have not

> been able to find much information on using lye to remove aflatoxin, but

> apparently, the aflatoxin risk to Central Americans is reduced due to

> the very practice you recommend of treating foods with alkali. It is

> probably quite true that ash used to get into the food of ancient

> peoples, thus providing a natural method of " treatment " against

> contamination. I would love to learn more about this particular

> practice, and will have to search harder for more. The information you

> have offered is a great appetizer in this regard. Historical food

> practices are just fascinating to learn about, and there is always

> wisdom just waiting to be discovered!

>

> It is rather alarming that stores will continue to knowingly sell a

> product that is contaminated or rancid. Of course, buying flours and

> shelled nuts from bins in the market probably guarantees a much

> nutritionally depleted, bordering on toxic product.

>

> I live in the US state of Texas, which is an area of concern for molds

> of various types. Peanuts, cotton and other crops that attract fungi

> are grown here. I recently purchased 10 lbs of unshelled pecans from a

> local grower (I really need to get some pecan trees on my property).

> Presently they reside in a paper bag. How should I store them long

> term? Is freezing worthwhile in the shell? My son shells them for me

> as we use them, and the hulls make a nice mulch for the garden - an

> absolute necessity in our hellish summers. I have never noted an off

> taste or color of the pecans, yet I thank you for describing the subtle

> changes that an aflatoxin contaminated food item displays. I will watch

> for it.

>

> I do grow plums, peaches and apricots, which we eat fresh and then

> freeze the ample extras. Drying is not an option for the dozens of

> gallons we receive. We will be eating peach cobbler until next spring!

> It is early autumn now here, which in this particular region is ideal

> for greens and other vegetables. We grow big Napa cabbages, pickling

> cucumbers, golden and red beets, carrots, mustard for greens, arugula

> (also called rocket), dill, coriander and a few other goodies. Spring

> tends to be short here and greens will bolt then. But with the long,

> mild autumn, we will eat salad greens through year's end, hopefully. I

> will attempt some legume crops in the spring. Black-eyed peas grow well

> here, and I do wonder about lentils, black beans and chick peas -

> personal favorites of mine. My feeble attempt at buckwheat failed, but

> it was a drought year when I tried it. Our water is quite hard well

> water, and rain just does a much better job with the plants in general.

> Thankfully, we have gotten much rain this year - about 2 inches

> yesterday alone! I have read of drought in Australia, is that a big

> problem now?

>

> All the best,

> Deanna

[Guest guest]

It's an interesting question. I don't know much about limestone:

clay can be a mix of anything, depending on the outcropping.

With Pascalite there is a lot going on with it, part of which

is fungal probably.

The cows and birds and natives that visit a particular

outcropping likely don't know exactly why that outcropping

works. It would be interesting to see exactly what

is in a given clay bed, as well as what is in the glacial

runoff.

Our property has a big grey clay bed too, and I often

wonder what is in it! Our property is mostly " glacial " in

that the glaciers scoured it, but the runoff today is very

clear.

--

On 10/28/07, Dominic N Anfiteatro <dna@...> wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> Yes, the glacial runoff, but more importantly runoff over " limestone "

> seems to be the key factor with the Hunzakuts and their reasonably good

> health and long life, at least. Bentonite clay, I believe, works similar

> to activated charcoal, in that it has a charge in which through cation

> exchange, it absorbs specific charged ions, mostly of the organic

> variety, so I believe. So organic compounds some of which are toxins,

> are absorbed. by the clay or activated charcoal.

>

> I saved a young wild dove about a year ago, which was brought to me by a

> young lad visiting his grandmother living next door to us. On observing

> the young dove, it was limp with very slow breathing, it was almost

> dead. I could not find any sign of injury, so i took the chance in

> thinking it ate poison. I have activated charcoal which I prepare with

> by activating it with kefir-whey, and this charcoal has an effective

> ability for cation exchange, similar to a commercial activated charcoal

> used by vets at drs to treat poisoning. I wet some activated charcoal

> and made a wet paste and then with a small syringe, I forced some of

> this down the dove's mouth. I then gave it mouth to beak resuscitation

> to make sure there was not charcoal gone past down the windpipe, and

> then I swung the bird in a gentle circular motion, around my head, to

> dislodge any charcoal from its windpipe. I've done the same when I saved

> a kid whom was drowning at a local beach many years ago--- the outgoing

> centrifugal force removes liquid from the lungs and the windpipe [it

> just come to me at the time with the young lad I found close to drowning].

>

> I left the bird for a few hours, and then when I came back to it, it

> flew out of the box it was in, and was a healthy feisty bird, so I/we

> let it go.

>

> This outcome would have been due to the activated charcoal, which must

> have absorbed the poison from the bird's stomach, which I suspected it

> ate. So, it is similar to bentonite clay in action, but I think

> activated charcoal has a stronger action.

>

> There is also a similar clay to bentonite found in certain parts of

> Northern USA, which has an even stronger cation exchange action than

> bentonite, but I can not recall the name if this particular clay.

>

> Yes, wild animals are renowned to eat clay and dirt, and so are young

> children and the Australian aboriginees. There are specific areas in

> Australia that were/are chosen for the clay that they ate, and possibly

> used as body paint and other artwork too. It's all very interesting indeed.

>

> Be-well,

> Dom

>

>

>