Guest guest Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 > Question: how does one consume a sweet miso? I know what to do with a > dark miso or a doenjang (or at least, I know what *I* do with them!), > but not sure how to handle a sweet one. > -- > Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia > " Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn " > - The Wee Book of Calvin > *************** Hi Ross, I use sweet miso the same way I use dark miso--in soups for flavoring just before serving. The only difference between sweet miso and dark miso is that it is more mellow in flavor. However, it is still salty--just not as salty as red or dark miso. Sweet miso is actually my favorite type of miso--I add it to soups or broth after removing from the heat source (just before serving). It is delicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 G'day , >I use sweet miso the same way I use dark miso--in soups for flavoring >just before serving. The only difference between sweet miso and dark >miso is that it is more mellow in flavor. However, it is still >salty--just not as salty as red or dark miso. Sweet miso is actually >my favorite type of miso--I add it to soups or broth after removing >from the heat source (just before serving). It is delicious. Thanks, I look forward to trying it now. The smell is just amazing! Nothing could have prepared me for that - so sweet! Now that I have some rice koji going, I'm planning to keep it going for a while and make about a batch a month or something like that, at least for a few months. In your experience, how viable is it to keep reserving a little koji to roll into the new batch? Is there some point at which you just need to start afresh from the spore? Would I be better off working up a batch of spore, as I've done with tempeh? I could then just keep starting afresh from spore, or limit the koji rollover to 2-3 generations or something. Is there a guideline on this? The book " How to Cook with Miso " says about 3 generations; Sandor's book doesn't mention it. -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia The planet is in a pickle, but fermenting will help save us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 i use sweet miso for some sauces and some dressings as well as some soups. here is an herb miso salad dressing that i like very much 1/2 cup soymilk 1/4 cup white miso (saikyo is best!) 1/4 rice vinegar 1 tbsp maple syrup 1/4 tsp karashi (dried mustard) 1 tbsp fresh basil 1 tbsp fresh tarragon 1 tbsp fresh parsley blend well, let chill a couple of hours enjoy! phil Philip Gelb shakuhachi player, teacher vegetarian chef http://philipgelb.com http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood http://myspace.com/philipgelb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 i use sweet miso for some sauces and some dressings as well as some soups. here is an herb miso salad dressing that i like very much 1/2 cup soymilk 1/4 cup white miso (saikyo is best!) 1/4 rice vinegar 1 tbsp maple syrup 1/4 tsp karashi (dried mustard) 1 tbsp fresh basil 1 tbsp fresh tarragon 1 tbsp fresh parsley blend well, let chill a couple of hours enjoy! phil Philip Gelb shakuhachi player, teacher vegetarian chef http://philipgelb.com http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood http://myspace.com/philipgelb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Lovely recipe, Phil. I know you're a vegetarian, so I hope that I don't offend you, but could you use regular milk in the dressing as well? Jasmine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 G'day Philip, >i use sweet miso for some sauces and some dressings as >well as some soups. Ah, yes, sauce bases. Sounds good. I will play with that. >here is an herb miso salad dressing that i like very much >[...] Thank you, I will store that one up for salad season (approaching fast now) -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia " Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn " - The Wee Book of Calvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 --- Jasmine <purejasmine@...> wrote: > Lovely recipe, Phil. I know you're a vegetarian, so > I hope that I don't > offend you, but could you use regular milk in the > dressing as well? > Jasmine honestly, i have no idea since i never tried it. I imagine it could work but? phil Philip Gelb shakuhachi player, teacher vegetarian chef http://philipgelb.com http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood http://myspace.com/philipgelb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Most of the people I know seem to have bought into the recent news that soy is bad for you, which is why I asked On 10/11/07, Philip Gelb <phil@...> wrote: > > > --- Jasmine <purejasmine@... <purejasmine%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > Lovely recipe, Phil. I know you're a vegetarian, so > > I hope that I don't > > offend you, but could you use regular milk in the > > dressing as well? > > Jasmine > > honestly, i have no idea since i never tried it. I > imagine it could work but? > > phil > > Philip Gelb > shakuhachi player, teacher > vegetarian chef > http://philipgelb.com > http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood > http://myspace.com/philipgelb > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 > Most of the people I know seem to have bought into > the recent news that soy > is bad for you, which is why I asked > the irony of the anti-soy propoganda is rather amusing. Sad how so many people believe it, especially when it is based on incredibly shabby research. phil Philip Gelb shakuhachi player, teacher vegetarian chef http://philipgelb.com http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood http://myspace.com/philipgelb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 > > the irony of the anti-soy propoganda is rather > > amusing. Sad how so many people believe it, especially > > when it is based on incredibly shabby research. > > > > phil > > > How so, Phil? I'd love to hear your perspective on this. I'm always suspicious whenever I see any miracle food being hyped up in the media, or the reverse! Jasmine > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Actually, I think the research is rather solid and most of soy's supposed health benefits are propagated by...the soy industry! Although some soy products such as miso and traditional fermented tofu and soy sauce are probably good, the processed products like soymilk, TSP, soy granules, etc are, IMHO, harmful if consumed in any significant amount. Although I see some folks point to Asian cultures to show soy's positives I'd also point out that these cultures are not drinking soymilk, using TSP, etc. See for some possible useful info http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/soy.htm http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/26/soy_myths.htm http://credencegroup.co.uk/Eclub/Eclubsearchable2/230304/CTM-soy.htm Re: Miso... >> Most of the people I know seem to have bought into >> the recent news that soy >> is bad for you, which is why I asked >> > > the irony of the anti-soy propoganda is rather > amusing. Sad how so many people believe it, especially > when it is based on incredibly shabby research. > > phil > > Philip Gelb > shakuhachi player, teacher > vegetarian chef > http://philipgelb.com > http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood > http://myspace.com/philipgelb > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 I tried Phil's great recipe with kefir and it was yummy. Very healthy too. Norma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 > > Now that I have some rice koji going, I'm planning to keep it going for > a while and make about a batch a month or something like that, at least > for a few months. In your experience, how viable is it to keep reserving > a little koji to roll into the new batch? Is there some point at which > you just need to start afresh from the spore? > > Would I be better off working up a batch of spore, as I've done with > tempeh? I could then just keep starting afresh from spore, or limit the > koji rollover to 2-3 generations or something. > > Is there a guideline on this? The book " How to Cook with Miso " says > about 3 generations; Sandor's book doesn't mention it. > -- > Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia > The planet is in a pickle, but fermenting will help save us > *************** I started making my own spore by just letting the koji ripen to the point it is growing green fuzz. I use this green spore in new batches--just grind it up and add a bit of rice flour to it until it's the same color as the spore you buy. I never even considered it might not work--just seemed reasonable to me since I dislike having to buy new spore when I can make my own easier and cheaper. I would be interested in hearing whether anybody has experienced " fizzed out " spore after continuing to make their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 I followed these links (apart from Mercola which just gives me a pop-up subscription box which I am afraid annoys me) and they make a strong case for the un healthiness of unfermented soya. Does anyone have a link which puts a contrary case? Sally SeaDruid wrote: > Actually, I think the research is rather solid and most of soy's supposed > health benefits are propagated by...the soy industry! Although some soy > products such as miso and traditional fermented tofu and soy sauce are > probably good, the processed products like soymilk, TSP, soy granules, etc > are, IMHO, harmful if consumed in any significant amount. Although I see > some folks point to Asian cultures to show soy's positives I'd also point > out that these cultures are not drinking soymilk, using TSP, etc. > > See for some possible useful info > > http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/soy.htm > http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/26/soy_myths.htm > http://credencegroup.co.uk/Eclub/Eclubsearchable2/230304/CTM-soy.htm > > > > > Re: Miso... > > > >>> Most of the people I know seem to have bought into >>> the recent news that soy >>> is bad for you, which is why I asked >>> >>> >> the irony of the anti-soy propoganda is rather >> amusing. Sad how so many people believe it, especially >> when it is based on incredibly shabby research. >> >> phil >> >> Philip Gelb >> shakuhachi player, teacher >> vegetarian chef >> http://philipgelb.com >> http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood >> http://myspace.com/philipgelb >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 Jasime, any food is bad for us-- if we study it enough, we will find things in any food that are harmful to our health. With organically grown soy beans, fermentation of the beans is essential in my books, and this is the only way I use soy beans. I used to prepare soy milk on a small commercial scale including tofu and tempeh. Yet, I was not one to ever over-indulge in any of those products that at some point I had coming out of my ears-- literally. I learned about tofu in fresh or cooked form not being that good for me personally many years ago, after having a first taste of well cooked tofu not long after breaking a long fast. I felt very week within 15 minutes of eating the tofu that I prepared and cooked myself. But, a fermented version of the tofu gave me no problem, it in fact it gave me energy. I was aware of this for some years before then, for I used to eat cooked fresh tofu in moderation, which did effect my energy levels to some extent. Used in moderation and taken with cooked foods in small amounts, things like miso, soy sauce, sufu can be good for health. But the product should be prepared from organically grown soy beans, and the product should not be pasteurized, for it is the enzymes and peptides of those ferments that are beneficial-- cooking destroys enzymes and possibly alters the beneficial peptides. Be-well, Dom Jasmine typed: > Most of the people I know seem to have bought into the recent news that soy > is bad for you, which is why I asked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 I agree Phill, We do not have to look that far/deep to see the agenda behind these claims. Santos for one--- the anti-Santos campaign which China got behind in recent times. Folks eating less meat and the like. What about this, " Feed the man meat " [aimed at parents with growing up boys] is one such campaign here in Australia. Read between the lines folks--- think and research for yourselves. Be-well, Dom Philip Gelb typed: >> Most of the people I know seem to have bought into >> the recent news that soy >> is bad for you, which is why I asked >> > > the irony of the anti-soy propoganda is rather > amusing. Sad how so many people believe it, especially > when it is based on incredibly shabby research. > > phil > > Philip Gelb > shakuhachi player, teacher > vegetarian chef > http://philipgelb.com > http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood > http://myspace.com/philipgelb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 Very good points! . I fully agree. Be-well, Dom SeaDruid typed: > Actually, I think the research is rather solid and most of soy's supposed > health benefits are propagated by...the soy industry! Although some soy > products such as miso and traditional fermented tofu and soy sauce are > probably good, the processed products like soymilk, TSP, soy granules, etc > are, IMHO, harmful if consumed in any significant amount. Although I see > some folks point to Asian cultures to show soy's positives I'd also point > out that these cultures are not drinking soymilk, using TSP, etc. > > See for some possible useful info > > http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/soy.htm > http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/26/soy_myths.htm > http://credencegroup.co.uk/Eclub/Eclubsearchable2/230304/CTM-soy.htm > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 > I followed these links (apart from Mercola which > just gives me a pop-up > subscription box which I am afraid annoys me) and > they make a strong > case for the un healthiness of unfermented soya. > Does anyone have a link > which puts a contrary case? rather than a link, look at the communities that for centuries have used soy; i.e. the buddhist communities in Japan and China. If you look there, you will not find the problems that the anti-soy propoganda is always ranting about. At the same time, these communities are, as someone on this list pointed out, not using tvp and other highly processed soy products! They are using things like soymilk, tofu, yuba, shoyu, miso, tamari, natto and in Indonesia, tempeh. All of these are fermented except for soymilk, tofu and yuba. Contrary to the anti soy propoganda, soy is not simply a condiment in these cultures but is eaten regularly, at most meals. At least that is my own observation from my times spent in Japan. Personally, i do not trust research that is pro soy funded by the soy companies and certainly do not trust the anti soy research funded by dairy and meat industries. phil Philip Gelb shakuhachi player, teacher vegetarian chef http://philipgelb.com http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood http://myspace.com/philipgelb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 I'm afraid I'm not clever enough to " look deep to see the agenda " etc. If you have a point to make please make it. I can't follow all this hint/hint stuff Sally Dominic N Anfiteatro wrote: > I agree Phill, > > We do not have to look that far/deep to see the agenda behind these > claims. Santos for one--- the anti-Santos campaign which China got > behind in recent times. Folks eating less meat and the like. What about > this, " Feed the man meat " [aimed at parents with growing up boys] is one > such campaign here in Australia. Read between the lines folks--- think > and research for yourselves. > > Be-well, > Dom > > Philip Gelb typed: > >>> Most of the people I know seem to have bought into >>> the recent news that soy >>> is bad for you, which is why I asked >>> >>> >> the irony of the anti-soy propoganda is rather >> amusing. Sad how so many people believe it, especially >> when it is based on incredibly shabby research. >> >> phil >> >> Philip Gelb >> shakuhachi player, teacher >> vegetarian chef >> http://philipgelb.com >> http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood >> http://myspace.com/philipgelb >> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 I wasn't giving much thought to my post, it came at the end of a long day. You missed my point though, " think and research for yourselves " . One of my other tallents is to " draw out " from wounds, be it on what ever level one may see this, so maybe this is what I've done here with you, Sally? [no disrespect intended, simple odservation/question] You do not have to be cleaver, nor afraid either. A worm/cat/dog knows what to stay away from, using basic " instinct " , fear come later as a secondary reaction. I know what's good for me, for I've done the research for myself [work still in progress and possibly till the day I die]. This does not mean that it is for others, nor do I claim or endorse it as such. There's good science and there are good scientists. But not all results of certain sciences fits all shoes, for what's good for the goose still remains the same, it may not be good for the gander [foods, medicine]. I'm not a classically trained scientist, but when I see some of the things that so called scientists have used or the scientists have been USED to get a point across, which to me clearly had a hidden agenda, I just have to look at folks' reactions around me to see that most of their work " WORKED " --- they got the point across that they wanted to get across= bad science = propaganda. I guess you want specifics? The question is, are you ready for them? I walk among blind sheep most days, and I'm one too on other days. Be-well, Dom On 10/13/2007 1:01:21 AM, Eva family (bobsallyeva@...) wrote: > I'm afraid I'm not clever enough to " look deep to see the agenda " etc. > If you have a point to make please make it. I can't follow all this > hint/hint stuff > Sally > Dominic N Anfiteatro wrote: > > I agree Phill, > > > > We do not have to look that far/deep to see the agenda behind these > > claims. Santos for one--- the anti-Santos campaign which China got > > behind in recent times. Folks eating less meat and the like. What about > > this, " Feed the man meat " [aimed at parents with growing up boys] is one > > such Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 This soy topic always rouses passionate feelings. Unfortunately there's an endless maze of commentary verifying the adage " a little knowledge is a dangerous thing " . The most relevant fact about soy isn't controversial. It's basic scientific knowledge known for decades and has nothing to do with political agendas and funding. 1) Soy contains an unusually high amount of phyto-estrogens that affect the human hormonal system, especially the thyroid, and the amounts are higher in recent breeds of soy. In other words, like thousands of other plant foods, soy is a medicinal food. Like any medicine, it can be helpful or harmful depending on the condition of the person. For the small percentage of people with overactive thyroids, it's apparently helpful. For everyone else, it's potentially harmful. The difference between a medicine and a toxin is often just the person consuming it or the amount consumed. Lots of common herbal foods are dangerous in large amounts, but beneficial, harmless, or aesthetically wonderful in their typical usage. As far as fermentation is concerned, it's a myth that fermented soy is okay. 2) Fermentation doesn't eliminate the phyto-estrogens. To the contrary, it makes them more bioavailable. In other words, the serious danger of soy is still there when you eat natto, miso, tempeh, tamari, and subu. 3) Fermentation makes soy moderately more nutritious by reducing anti-nutrients (e.g. phytic acid, antitrypsin). Other benefits include flavor, food preservation, and the generation of additional nutrients (e.g. vit K2 in natto, B-vitamins). However, except for tempeh, note that that fermented soy foods are inherently unsuited to consumption in more than small amounts, and that there are other foods (pomegrantes, clover, fenugreek, etc) that also have phyto-estrogens. Also note that brassicas (cabbage, kale, mustard, broccoli, etc) have goitrogens that can cause also problems for hypothyroidic people. Food and health is complicated and subtle. Also note that soy is nutritionally interchangeable with other legumes (e.g. lentils, peas, beans, etc) that don't have the special problems of soy. Some sociological observations: 4) The most influential anti-soy organization is the Weston A. Price Foundation, which has no funding from the meat and dairy industry. In fact, they are activists against this industry. Their basic agenda is to promote traditional omnivorous diets and local sustainable agriculture. 5) Some people say that soy was only used in very small amounts until recent decades when it became commonly eaten in large amounts all over the world. It's hard to get solid facts about this, but obviously anyone's observations about soy's usage in Asia in the past few decades is totally irrelevant. Further, historical anecdotes about the dietary habits of tiny demographics (e.g. Buddhist monks, etc) are irrelevant to this question. 6) Iodine-rich sea vegetables are very commonly eaten in Asia and many people have suggested that this counteracts the goitrogenic effects of soy. The bottom line: 7) If you don't have a special thyroid problem or a soy-allergy, eating small amounts of soy in any form is probably harmless. 8) Eating substantial amounts of soy in any form is risky for anyone. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Dom I think you are right. My yoga teacher who was a master said it is best to eat soy with lemon juice so it will digest. It is one of the hardest foods to digest. However, if we ferment soy, it is even better and infinitely easier to digest. GB > > Jasime, any food is bad for us-- if we study it enough, we will find > things in any food that are harmful to our health. With organically > grown soy beans, fermentation of the beans is essential in my books, and > this is the only way I use soy beans. I used to prepare soy milk on a > small commercial scale including tofu and tempeh. Yet, I was not one to > ever over-indulge in any of those products that at some point I had > coming out of my ears-- literally. > > I learned about tofu in fresh or cooked form not being that good for me > personally many years ago, after having a first taste of well cooked > tofu not long after breaking a long fast. I felt very week within 15 > minutes of eating the tofu that I prepared and cooked myself. But, a > fermented version of the tofu gave me no problem, it in fact it gave me > energy. > > I was aware of this for some years before then, for I used to eat cooked > fresh tofu in moderation, which did effect my energy levels to some extent. > > > Used in moderation and taken with cooked foods in small amounts, things > like miso, soy sauce, sufu can be good for health. But the product > should be prepared from organically grown soy beans, and the product > should not be pasteurized, for it is the enzymes and peptides of those > ferments that are beneficial-- cooking destroys enzymes and possibly > alters the beneficial peptides. > > Be-well, > Dom > > > > Jasmine typed: > > Most of the people I know seem to have bought into the recent news that soy > > is bad for you, which is why I asked > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Very interesting, . Since I use very little soy it is not an issue with me, but I will be interested to research your points, one by one, to check their validity and/or controversial views. Fascinating. My suspicion of soy has arisen more from soy OIL and what I have read about it. From my understanding the soy oil industry is responsible for removing a perfectly healthful oil, coconut oil, from general usage. the result produced the explosion of hydrogenated oils, trans-fats, and preservatives. Coconut oil, being saturated, required no hydrogenation, had no trans-fats and has a naturally preservative function in products. After is was removed via pressure from the soy industry, we required hydrogenated soy oil and preservatives to replace it. I love coconut oil. If you have a chance to use pure virgin coconut oil, please try it, very good tasting. Re: Miso... > This soy topic always rouses passionate feelings. Unfortunately there's > an > endless maze of commentary verifying the adage " a little knowledge is a > dangerous thing " . > > The most relevant fact about soy isn't controversial. It's basic > scientific > knowledge known for decades and has nothing to do with political agendas > and > funding. > > 1) Soy contains an unusually high amount of phyto-estrogens that affect > the > human hormonal system, especially the thyroid, and the amounts are higher > in > recent breeds of soy. > > In other words, like thousands of other plant foods, soy is a medicinal > food. Like any medicine, it can be helpful or harmful depending on the > condition of the person. For the small percentage of people with > overactive > thyroids, it's apparently helpful. For everyone else, it's potentially > harmful. The difference between a medicine and a toxin is often just the > person consuming it or the amount consumed. Lots of common herbal foods > are > dangerous in large amounts, but beneficial, harmless, or aesthetically > wonderful in their typical usage. > > As far as fermentation is concerned, it's a myth that fermented soy is > okay. > > > 2) Fermentation doesn't eliminate the phyto-estrogens. To the contrary, it > makes them more bioavailable. In other words, the serious danger of soy is > still there when you eat natto, miso, tempeh, tamari, and subu. > > 3) Fermentation makes soy moderately more nutritious by reducing > anti-nutrients (e.g. phytic acid, antitrypsin). Other benefits include > flavor, food preservation, and the generation of additional nutrients > (e.g. > vit K2 in natto, B-vitamins). > > However, except for tempeh, note that that fermented soy foods are > inherently unsuited to consumption in more than small amounts, and that > there are other foods (pomegrantes, clover, fenugreek, etc) that also have > phyto-estrogens. Also note that brassicas (cabbage, kale, mustard, > broccoli, etc) have goitrogens that can cause also problems for > hypothyroidic people. Food and health is complicated and subtle. > > Also note that soy is nutritionally interchangeable with other legumes > (e.g. > lentils, peas, beans, etc) that don't have the special problems of soy. > > Some sociological observations: > > 4) The most influential anti-soy organization is the Weston A. Price > Foundation, which has no funding from the meat and dairy industry. In > fact, > they are activists against this industry. Their basic agenda is to promote > traditional omnivorous diets and local sustainable agriculture. > > 5) Some people say that soy was only used in very small amounts until > recent > decades when it became commonly eaten in large amounts all over the world. > It's hard to get solid facts about this, but obviously anyone's > observations > about soy's usage in Asia in the past few decades is totally irrelevant. > Further, historical anecdotes about the dietary habits of tiny > demographics > (e.g. Buddhist monks, etc) are irrelevant to this question. > > 6) Iodine-rich sea vegetables are very commonly eaten in Asia and many > people have suggested that this counteracts the goitrogenic effects of > soy. > > The bottom line: > > 7) If you don't have a special thyroid problem or a soy-allergy, eating > small amounts of soy in any form is probably harmless. > > 8) Eating substantial amounts of soy in any form is risky for anyone. > > Mike > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Anton wrote: >[...] >Also note that soy is nutritionally interchangeable with other legumes (e.g. >lentils, peas, beans, etc) that don't have the special problems of soy. >[...] I don't want to step into this emotional realm at all, but feel some need to back up the statement above and reinforce it: soybeans are dreadfully dull, by comparison with other legumes. While the debate rages on about whether we should or should not eat soy, lots of other legumes are there for our eating pleasure. When used whole in cooking, soy beans have a nice buttery flavour, but I find them utterly boring next to such wonders as lima beans, black-eyed peas, borlotti beans, adzuki beans, urad beans, mung beans (especially sprouted) and chickpeas. When it comes to tempeh, Rhizopus oligosporus will happily chow down on the much tastier borlotti beans, as well as fava beans, chickpeas, and pretty much any other legume you want to throw at it (and is quite content with grains too). Here in Oz, at least, it is easier to find split Desi chickpeas (chana dal) and split fava beans than it is to find split soybeans, thus there is an additional incentive to use these. As for miso et al, Aspergillus oryzae and others are quite at ease with non-soy legumes and regional specialties are indeed made from such legumes as fava beans and chickpeas. I don't know what the liquid sauces from such ferments would be like, but I'd imagine that they'd be equally good if a little different. I have a 100% chickpea (chana dal) miso on the go now, and am looking forward to seeing how it turns out. (There are also two soybean misos, and I'll be starting a fava bean miso next weekend) So, let everyone else argue about soybeans, and get out there and try the other offerings! -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia " Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water; After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water " - Wu Li Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Hello Ross, <<find them utterly boring next to such wonders as lima beans, black-eyed peas, borlotti beans, adzuki beans, urad beans, mung beans (especially sprouted) and chickpeas.>> I'm Cuban, so I must add black beans to the list. YUM!!! Out of this world delicious and don't quote me on this, but might be leading the pack nutritionally (or at least I like to think so). Certainly leading the pack with flavor. Of course, I have a billy goat stomach, having been raised on a broad daily variety of beans, except interestingly enough, Cuban cuisine does not include soybeans. Millie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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