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Re: Mold on kraut

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Dirk Coetsee wrote:

> Hi there,

>

> I notice that if I leave my home-made sauerkraut or kimchi lying

outside (or

> even in the fridge for a while), a layer of mold seems to develop on the

> surface exposed to the air. I found this kind of weird since I

figured the

> acid and microbes would protect it from mold formation.

Huh. I dunno. I've never ever had kraut or kimchi mold ... it

goes " sweet " after awhile and gets mushy. I've kept some for

over a year. I can't say it tasted good, but it wasn't moldy.

Kimchi doesn't mold either, for me. Except a couple

of times I made batches that had lots of fruit in them.

I don't seem to be successful with fruit kimchi.

There is a kind of white yeasty stuff that grows on some

ferments. I don't think it is mold ... at least it doesn't smell like mold

and it doesn't seem to hurt anything. I get that on kefir sometimes

and sometimes on pickles.

How much salt is in your kraut? That could be one variant ...

> UNLESS the mold is a

> fungal species living in the stuff that grows more in aerobic

conditions. I

> really don't know. What do you think? Is this normal? It troubles me.

Not to get technical, but isn't mold a kind of fungus?

-- Heidi

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Yes, the stuff that grows is like a fine white film. Perhaps I should add

some more salt (can't recall how much I use, but I know it is about 2/3 of

the recommendations I've seen elsewhere). I am not sure if it's pathogenic,

but it doesn't smell great. I do add some sweeter stuff to my ferments e.g.

pumpkin and sometimes berries or a little apple. Maybe that's a problem?

On 10/25/06, HeidiS <heidis@...> wrote:

>

> Dirk Coetsee wrote:

>

> > Hi there,

> >

> > I notice that if I leave my home-made sauerkraut or kimchi lying

> outside (or

> > even in the fridge for a while), a layer of mold seems to develop on the

> > surface exposed to the air. I found this kind of weird since I

> figured the

> > acid and microbes would protect it from mold formation.

>

> Huh. I dunno. I've never ever had kraut or kimchi mold ... it

> goes " sweet " after awhile and gets mushy. I've kept some for

> over a year. I can't say it tasted good, but it wasn't moldy.

> Kimchi doesn't mold either, for me. Except a couple

> of times I made batches that had lots of fruit in them.

> I don't seem to be successful with fruit kimchi.

>

> There is a kind of white yeasty stuff that grows on some

> ferments. I don't think it is mold ... at least it doesn't smell like mold

> and it doesn't seem to hurt anything. I get that on kefir sometimes

> and sometimes on pickles.

>

> How much salt is in your kraut? That could be one variant ...

>

> > UNLESS the mold is a

> > fungal species living in the stuff that grows more in aerobic

> conditions. I

> > really don't know. What do you think? Is this normal? It troubles me.

>

> Not to get technical, but isn't mold a kind of fungus?

>

> -- Heidi

>

>

>

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Dirk Coetsee wrote:

> Yes, the stuff that grows is like a fine white film. Perhaps I should add

> some more salt (can't recall how much I use, but I know it is about

2/3 of

> the recommendations I've seen elsewhere). I am not sure if it's

pathogenic,

> but it doesn't smell great. I do add some sweeter stuff to my

ferments e.g.

> pumpkin and sometimes berries or a little apple. Maybe that's a problem?

OK, I've seen something like the fine white film. I don't think it's

mold (one of these days I'm gonna break out the ol' scope and see

for sure ...) but I usually get it on " bad " ferments which don't taste

all that great either.

And yeah, sweet ferments are harder to do. I think adding loads

of pepper (like the Koreans do) would help, or some vinegar,

or more salt. And keep the air out ... if the bottle is undisturbed it

should be mostly CO2 in the bottle (it's heavier than air).

Interestingly though, my kefir beer, which has tons of sugar

and NO salt, never gets moldy either. Anything with a kefir grain,

in fact, doesn't get moldy ... even if the kefir is used to make bread.

Kefir beer has ethanol though ...

-- Heidi

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I'm pretty sure that the white film is a yeast and is almost always due to

oxygen exposure.

Cooler fermentation temps help somewhat but other than that and keeping the

air out I'm not sure what the variable(s) are. My kimchi gets this sometimes

and usually it's accompanied by a mushy texture and bad flavor..

If you get your hands on some real Korean red pepper you use a 1/2 cup for

only a few pounds of cabbage and this really seems to help with an

appropriate fermentation. It's fairly mild but has a perfect flavor for

Kimchi and makes the whole batch a very appealing shade of red ;~)

Fermenting your kraut and/or kimchi below 68F is a good place to start..I

get my red pepper (and dried whole baby shrimp) from koamart.com

Beau

On 10/25/06, HeidiS <heidis@...> wrote:

>

> Dirk Coetsee wrote:

>

> > Yes, the stuff that grows is like a fine white film. Perhaps I should

> add

> > some more salt (can't recall how much I use, but I know it is about

> 2/3 of

> > the recommendations I've seen elsewhere). I am not sure if it's

> pathogenic,

> > but it doesn't smell great. I do add some sweeter stuff to my

> ferments e.g.

> > pumpkin and sometimes berries or a little apple. Maybe that's a problem?

>

> OK, I've seen something like the fine white film. I don't think it's

> mold (one of these days I'm gonna break out the ol' scope and see

> for sure ...) but I usually get it on " bad " ferments which don't taste

> all that great either.

>

> And yeah, sweet ferments are harder to do. I think adding loads

> of pepper (like the Koreans do) would help, or some vinegar,

> or more salt. And keep the air out ... if the bottle is undisturbed it

> should be mostly CO2 in the bottle (it's heavier than air).

>

> Interestingly though, my kefir beer, which has tons of sugar

> and NO salt, never gets moldy either. Anything with a kefir grain,

> in fact, doesn't get moldy ... even if the kefir is used to make bread.

> Kefir beer has ethanol though ...

>

> -- Heidi

>

>

>

--

Evolving Creations Glass

www.evolvingcreations.com

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Beau Barrett wrote:

>I'm pretty sure that the white film is a yeast and is almost always due to

>oxygen exposure.

In recipes I've read, it's usually called " kahm yeast " and is harmless,

but doesn't help the texture or flavour - discard it, but don't worry

about it. I agree with Beau + Heidi - too much oxygen, not enough salt.

>[...]

>If you get your hands on some real Korean red pepper you use a 1/2 cup for

>only a few pounds of cabbage and this really seems to help with an

>appropriate fermentation. It's fairly mild but has a perfect flavor for

>Kimchi and makes the whole batch a very appealing shade of red ;~)

Strongly agree! It makes for a very nice colour, and it's also a good

replacement for mild paprika - great flavour and just a prick of heat.

Nice in corn muffins :)

Oh and Dirk: moulds, yeasts and mushrooms are all fungi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungi

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn "

- The Wee Book of Calvin

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Ok. Yeah, the batch was definitely made in a slightly warmer environment

with a little less salt than there should have been. I'll watch those

factors next time. I was trying to be careful about oxygen, but I guess some

could have creeped in. It's so annoying. Takes me so long to make such a

huge batch of cabbage...

On 10/26/06, Ross McKay <rosko@...> wrote:

>

> Beau Barrett wrote:

>

> >I'm pretty sure that the white film is a yeast and is almost always due

> to

> >oxygen exposure.

>

> In recipes I've read, it's usually called " kahm yeast " and is harmless,

> but doesn't help the texture or flavour - discard it, but don't worry

> about it. I agree with Beau + Heidi - too much oxygen, not enough salt.

>

> >[...]

> >If you get your hands on some real Korean red pepper you use a 1/2 cup

> for

> >only a few pounds of cabbage and this really seems to help with an

> >appropriate fermentation. It's fairly mild but has a perfect flavor for

> >Kimchi and makes the whole batch a very appealing shade of red ;~)

>

> Strongly agree! It makes for a very nice colour, and it's also a good

> replacement for mild paprika - great flavour and just a prick of heat.

> Nice in corn muffins :)

>

> Oh and Dirk: moulds, yeasts and mushrooms are all fungi:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungi

> --

> Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

> " Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn "

> - The Wee Book of Calvin

>

>

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be aware:

Dried red chili sometimes contains red colouring that is illegal to use in

Norway (Sudan nr11 or some such name)

Tove

Re: Mold on kraut

> I'm pretty sure that the white film is a yeast and is almost always due to

> oxygen exposure.

> Cooler fermentation temps help somewhat but other than that and keeping

> the

> air out I'm not sure what the variable(s) are. My kimchi gets this

> sometimes

> and usually it's accompanied by a mushy texture and bad flavor..

> If you get your hands on some real Korean red pepper you use a 1/2 cup for

> only a few pounds of cabbage and this really seems to help with an

> appropriate fermentation. It's fairly mild but has a perfect flavor for

> Kimchi and makes the whole batch a very appealing shade of red ;~)

> Fermenting your kraut and/or kimchi below 68F is a good place to start..I

> get my red pepper (and dried whole baby shrimp) from koamart.com

> Beau

>

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Hey Beau,

Thanks for the site. I have a crop of different kinds of chiles I want

to pickle some, and use some in kraut or kimchi. Any suggestions or

recipes?!

Audrey

<snipet>

> > Fermenting your kraut and/or kimchi below 68F is a good place to

start..I

> > get my red pepper (and dried whole baby shrimp) from koamart.com

> > Beau

> >

>

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