Guest guest Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 Pleomorphism is an idea often put forward by the alternative medical field. Check out Sanum. They make lots of pleomorphic remedies. The book " Reclaim Your Inner Terrain " also bases its entire diagnosis of many chronic illnesses (from " Candida Syndrome " to Cancer) on being the product of microorganisms in your body " getting out of control " and morphing into pathogenic forms. Although the pleomorphic principle has (as far as I know) been demonstrated to be true in more modern times, there still seems to be debate about the extent to which the ideas can be applied. Not everybody believes in the remedies that Sanum touts. I personally don't know. It's really interesting stuff though! Dirk On 11/24/06, gednumstache <brooks.devin@...> wrote: > > is anyone familiar with this term? i have been reading some VERY > interesting articles about Antoine Béchamp. bechamp was a > contemporary of pasteur and he offered a completely different theory > on microbial activity, but its hard to get much information about it. > i found this site: http://www.bechamp.org/, and read a few poorly > written articles, but was wondering if maybe anyone here has any > input. interestingly enough, the guy who wrote one of the articles > wrote the secret life of plants, which my girlfriend found > enlightening and interesting. heres that one > http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm > > brooks > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Something else interesting: This guy studies how people become fat or thin due to lack of microorganisms: can't digest the food properly because of wrong bacterias in the digestive system. I know for example of people who can't tolerate milk anyore. after they had salmonella. http://dbbs.wustl.edu/dbbs/website.nsf/RIB/9BBA3DE37803E13A86256D4E005B2D18 name of Gordon Something for sure is wrong with my system, but how to find all the right bugs and put them in? Tove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Apparently kefir (if you can tolerate it) is good for correcting lactose intolerance. EM (www.eminfo.info) is quite good (so I'm told) for underweight people who can't digest properly. However, taking probiotics is not necessarily sufficient to correct problems. Depends what's wrong. On 11/24/06, Tove Stenersen <tove.stenersen@...> wrote: > > Something else interesting: > This guy studies how people become fat or thin due to lack of > microorganisms: can't digest the food properly because of wrong bacterias > in > the digestive system. > I know for example of people who can't tolerate milk anyore. after they > had > salmonella. > > > http://dbbs.wustl.edu/dbbs/website.nsf/RIB/9BBA3DE37803E13A86256D4E005B2D18 > > name of Gordon > > Something for sure is wrong with my system, but how to find all the right > bugs and put them in? > Tove > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 > > > Something for sure is wrong with my system, but how to find all the right > bugs and put them in? > Tove > Some eat dirt; note the instinctive behaviour of rugrats. There's also raw sauerkraut, has to be home-made, and just about anything fermented or rotten which is not known to make anyone sick, including rotten fish paste from ancient Rome and modern East Asia. Of course, this will be useless if one still consumes biological poisons such as the chlorine and fluorides in municipal water, the chemicals added to wine and cured meats, preservatives in processed food, etc. Our modern environment is stiff with biological poisons, think of cleaning substances for the house and anti-bacterial soaps for the body, also electromagnetic radiation in home and work environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 >> Something for sure is wrong with my system, but how to find all the right bugs and put them in? Tove ========== Sometimes the reason the bacteria are out of sync is because of a problem further up the digestive tract. Typically some food isn't digested properly because of lack of HCL or enzymes (fructose is a common problem, surprisingly), or the villi in the upper intestine have been destroyed (most commonly by autoimmune activity, usually triggered by wheat/barley/rye gluten). Anyway, when the undigested food reaches the lower gut, it feeds a different sort of microbes than you were designed for. Probiotics can help: you can simply overwhelm the the " bad " microbes: but in the long run, you need to fix the digestive problem AND reseed the intestine. In my case, I eat a GFCF diet and take Thorne biogest with each meal, and Vitamin C and cal/mag/D/zinc. Then everything digests just fine, no gas, no nothing. Another thing that helped me a lot was going on the Warrior Diet, where you only eat one main meal a day. I think the " rest period " between meals allows the gut to do some housecleaning, or the bacteria to die back a little until the next meal, or store up enzymes in the gall bladder, or something, but it made a huge difference. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Here is a website that got me to change my perception of disease vs health: http://www.poisonevercure.150m.com I'd been linked directly to a page on 'antibody theory'. They had an article on Bechamp vs Pasteur. For all that they are against vaccination, I noticed that they advertise drugs! Your link to bechamp.org does not work. Also, I've noticed it spelled Bechamp and Beauchamp. Are these different spellings or different people? LAURA. > > is anyone familiar with this term? i have been reading some VERY > interesting articles about Antoine Béchamp. bechamp was a > contemporary of pasteur and he offered a completely different theory > on microbial activity, but its hard to get much information about it. > i found this site: http://www.bechamp.org/, and read a few poorly > written articles, [<>] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 ><http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm>http:\ //www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm This link does not work for me, but I'd really like to see the article (was it by Byrd or by Tompkins) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Excellent link. Wow On 11/26/06, Allan Balliett <aballiett@...> wrote: > > >< > http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm> > http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm > > This link does not work for me, but I'd really like to see the > article (was it by Byrd or by Tompkins) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Thank you for long answer. I agree with most of what you say, but want to add some points. I don ´t think it is possilbe to replace the bacterias that went missing just with probiotica, because I don@t think anyone know enough of all the bacteria. In the article about jeffrey Gordon, it said that people have a similar bacteria profile to their parents, rather than their spouse. There are so many bacterias. Now someone is doing research to make capsules of oxalobacter, which is a problem for many with fibromyalgia, but I am sure there are som many other bacterias we need that we just don@t really know about: who are they and which function do they have? There is also a treatment I heard of where they take colon content from someone healthy and put inside someone ill - maybe that is what I need? I eat masses of bacterias I can buy and make myself, by the way, but I would like to eat something else than sauerkraut now and then. I eat it for every meal or I get helath problems. Tove Den 25. nov. 2006 kl. 01.15 skrev Heidi Schuppenhauer: > > >>> Something for sure is wrong with my system, but how to find all >>> the right > bugs and put them in? > Tove > > ========== > Sometimes the reason the bacteria are out of sync > is because of a problem further up the digestive > tract. Typically some food isn't digested properly > because of lack of HCL or enzymes (fructose > is a common problem, surprisingly), or the villi in > the upper intestine have been destroyed (most > commonly by autoimmune activity, usually > triggered by wheat/barley/rye gluten). > > Anyway, when the undigested food reaches the > lower gut, it feeds a different sort of microbes > than you were designed for. Probiotics can help: > you can simply overwhelm the the " bad " microbes: > but in the long run, you need to fix the digestive > problem AND reseed the intestine. In my case, > I eat a GFCF diet and take Thorne biogest > with each meal, and Vitamin C and cal/mag/D/zinc. > Then everything digests just fine, no gas, no > nothing. > > Another thing that helped me a lot was going > on the Warrior Diet, where you only eat one > main meal a day. I think the " rest period " between > meals allows the gut to do some housecleaning, > or the bacteria to die back a little until the next meal, > or store up enzymes in the gall bladder, or something, > but it made a huge difference. > > -- Heidi > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 > > Thank you for long answer. > I agree with most of what you say, but want to add some points. I don > ´t think it is possilbe to replace the bacterias that went missing > just with probiotica, because I don@t think anyone know enough of all > the bacteria. IMHO we dont need to know all about the different kinds of bacteria. They should be on those plants that grow close to the earth. This will be from your own garden (maybe even house plants) and from wild. > I eat masses of bacterias I can buy and make myself, by the way, but > I would like to eat something else than sauerkraut now and then. I > eat it for every meal or I get helath problems. The soil-based bacteria are not persistent, so we must eat stuff like raw sauerkraut, but most of us not every meal. My guess is that there is something that is killing these micro- organisms. Maybe too much accumulation of heavy metals? Something in your drinking water? Air? Many have successfully changed their inner environment by strict dieting on the raw paleolithic diet. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Yes, excellent link! There are numerous spelling mistakes, notably on the second page: R6 The Diving Hand: The 500 Year Old Mystery of Dowsing I've read that book about 20 years ago. Its title is actually " The Divining Hand " . And the name Bechamp is pronounced as if it is spelled Béchamp. > > > > >< > > http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 > > ><http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm>http:\ //www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm > > This link does not work for me, but I'd really like to see the > article (was it by Byrd or by Tompkins) > OK. The link worked for me, but... The article in question is,... well... uh... Hmmm. I guess i have to say that i am pretty skeptical about it's content. Partly because it seems rather unverifiable, but ALSO due to the site on which it is found (a VERY strange and somewhat disorganized site). It seems that this notion of " pkeomophic organisms " which, according to the article listed above, are more basic and much smaller forms of larger organisms various bacteria etc. The statement that was central to the notion of the thought stream is that microorganisms are caused BY THE ILLNESS rather than the illness being caused by the critters. Am i missing something here? I am confused. Another article that i found might lead to more clarity here, but i am really not sure... Further investigation seems like it would be entertaining if nothing else. Regards, -A. J. and Penelope <wysiwyg111@...> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 > > ><http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm>http:\ //www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm > > This link does not work for me, but I'd really like to see the > article (was it by Byrd or by Tompkins) > Ooops... forgot to include the link to the article... http://www.commonweal.org/pubs/choices/16.html Regards, -A. J. and Penelope <wysiwyg111@...> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 it was byrd who wrote this one. you can access the link also from http://www.herbdatanz.com/, by clicking on the " pasteur vs. bechamps " article about halfway down (its alphabetical). i talked to a biology major friend of mine about this who also sent me this article in the journal of clinical microbiology http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/content/full/40/12/4771. it confirms some of the things byrd refers to in the article. im not sure why the bechamp site doesnt work, and since im new to this guy i dont know if there are alternate spellings. i think the most interesting thing to me about the implications of a theory like this are the similarities in operation of other biological systems. it fits right in with how my fiancee and i (as farmers and aspiring soil nourishers) view soil health, and even can be applied, i think, to social structures and group dynamics and interactions. its all very interesting, and ill certainly be checking out this sids and vaccines page. i have read a little about vaccination, but since i plan on becoming a father in the near future, id like to be much more informed in order to make intelligent decisions. keep the links coming and ill share anything of interest i run into as well. brooks > > > > >< > > http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm> > > http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm > > > > This link does not work for me, but I'd really like to see the > > article (was it by Byrd or by Tompkins) > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 heres some more from a private website: http://www.pamrotella.com/health/geneticfad.html dont know about the woman who wrote it, but she also provides additional links and such > > > > > > >< > > > > http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm> > > > > http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm > > > > > > This link does not work for me, but I'd really like to see the > > > article (was it by Byrd or by Tompkins) > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Dr. Young's book: " Reclaim your inner terrain " is an interesting read if you are into pleomorphism On 11/28/06, gednumstache <brooks.devin@...> wrote: > > heres some more from a private website: > > http://www.pamrotella.com/health/geneticfad.html > > dont know about the woman who wrote it, but she also provides > additional links and such > > > > > > > > > > >< > > > > > > > http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm> > > > > > > http://www.herbdatanz.com/pasteur_or_bechamp-pleomorphic_organisms-1.htm > > > > > > > > This link does not work for me, but I'd really like to see the > > > > article (was it by Byrd or by Tompkins) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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