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Hee hee. Well, I'm glad they arrived safely.

I dread the day I get " inspected " and have to

explain those puppies to a customs agent. If you

want to amuse out a small boy, though, tell him they are rat brains.

I did a " Pet Germs " class at our local school, and

kefir grains and goopy kefiili were quite the hit!

(BTW: I just uploaded the PDF I used for the class:

you might get a kick out of it).

There is a writeup in the files section:

nutrition/files/

under " Kefiili " .

Basically though, just put them in some fresh milk,

preferably NOT raw milk. Raw milk has it's own

bacteria in it, which will change the grains. Maybe change

them in ways you like, maybe not. Use organic milk

though, because if there are traces of antibiotics (or

the stuff they use to clean cow udders) the grains won't

grow well. If you use raw milk, you might want to

boil it first, at least until the grains get established,

and use your " extras " in the raw milk just in

case.

The " thick " viili part tends to die in hot weather,

so you may need to put your ferment container

in another container of water. Sometimes I stick

mine back in the fridge to help it " thicken up " , and

I always keep a backup in the fridge just in case.

You can make the viili without the grains: just

add some of the thick stuff to some milk and let

it set. Dried viili will also survive on a cotton cloth

in spore form, which is how I got kefiili in the

first place (I was using cotton cloths to cover

the mason jars).

nixtaur wrote:

>

> Dear Heidi,

>

> I got the strangest thing in the mail the other day. I figured it's

> either from you or some really wacked out serial stalker.

>

> Thank you so much and could you kindly tell me which is what and

> direct to me directions on how to care for my new babies?

>

> Thanks Again!

>

> Nikki

>

>

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest guest

Hey Heidi,

I think I just realized something that I should've realized a long

time ago. Since you sent me 2 containers I thought the grains were

kefir and the other bottle was keffili. Now I think that the grains

are keffili and the bottle was starter milk? Am I right?

Thanks, Nikki

> >

> > Dear Heidi,

> >

> > I got the strangest thing in the mail the other day. I figured

it's

> > either from you or some really wacked out serial stalker.

> >

> > Thank you so much and could you kindly tell me which is what and

> > direct to me directions on how to care for my new babies?

> >

> > Thanks Again!

> >

> > Nikki

> >

> >

>

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Um, sort of. The grains are kefiili, that is " kefir plus viili " . By

themselves, they will produce kefiili. The other bottle was

pure viili, that is, no grains. I have no idea what they looked

like when they arrived, but the kefir grains survive better

than the viili, and I figured if they " thinned out " (didn't produce

the thick kefiili, just produced kefir) that maybe the viili would

survive better without the grains.

Does that make sense? Problem is, I'm totally overwhelmed work-wise

right now and didn't write up a good note.

If you are getting good, thick, kefiili right now, then

don't worry about it, you are good to go. My

grains have been really stable for a few years now,

and only got messed up once, on a long hot plane trip.

-- Heidi

> Hey Heidi,

> I think I just realized something that I should've realized a long

time ago. Since you sent me 2 containers I thought the grains were

kefir and the other bottle was keffili. Now I think that the grains

are keffili and the bottle was starter milk? Am I right?

Thanks, Nikki

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Heidi,

thanks, things seem to be going well with the keffili. It creates a nice

thick yogurt. I put a clump in non-organic commercial milk and a clump stayed

in the fridge until I could get organic milk. the fridge clumps seemed to do

better but I ended up just putting all the grains back together when I got good

milk. Will they keep producing more keffili grains? I also made keffili beer

w/ them (thinking they were kefir). It seems to be fermenting but I don't

really know if it's safe to drink! It's been out on the counter for about 6

days now. I guess I should bottle it now? How long can I wait?

Thanks for all your help!

Nikki

Heidi <heidis@...> wrote:

Um, sort of. The grains are kefiili, that is " kefir plus viili " . By

themselves, they will produce kefiili. The other bottle was

pure viili, that is, no grains. I have no idea what they looked

like when they arrived, but the kefir grains survive better

than the viili, and I figured if they " thinned out " (didn't produce

the thick kefiili, just produced kefir) that maybe the viili would

survive better without the grains.

Does that make sense? Problem is, I'm totally overwhelmed work-wise

right now and didn't write up a good note.

If you are getting good, thick, kefiili right now, then

don't worry about it, you are good to go. My

grains have been really stable for a few years now,

and only got messed up once, on a long hot plane trip.

-- Heidi

> Hey Heidi,

> I think I just realized something that I should've realized a long

time ago. Since you sent me 2 containers I thought the grains were

kefir and the other bottle was keffili. Now I think that the grains

are keffili and the bottle was starter milk? Am I right?

Thanks, Nikki

---------------------------------

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

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> thanks, things seem to be going well with the keffili. It creates a

nice thick yogurt. I put a clump in non-organic commercial milk and a

clump stayed in the fridge until I could get organic milk. the fridge

clumps seemed to do better but I ended up just putting all the grains

back together when I got good milk. Will they keep producing more

keffili grains? I also made keffili beer w/ them (thinking they were

kefir). It seems to be fermenting but I don't really know if it's safe

to drink! It's been out on the counter for about 6 days now. I guess I

should bottle it now? How long can I wait?

You should change the milk daily. The grains stay out

on the counter in fresh milk, tho you can put them in the

fridge whenever you get too much

kefiili: they do like cold weather better.

If you leave them without fresh milk for too long,

the kefiili will separate and get very sour, and

the viili strain will die. It's always good to keep

a backup in the fridge for that reason.

But ... you could keep it out on the counter for

months and it won't be toxic. Some people

do that ... it gets weird looking and smelly,

like highly fermented cheese, which isn't

my thing really. But no one has reported it

being toxic.

As for safe to drink: most people I know

that drank their first kefir did fine with it.

For me personally, I took 1 Tbls the first time

and it felt like WW3 was going on in my

gut for the next day. I wasn't *sick* ... just

very rumbly. A few people I know seem to have

that reaction. The new bacteria wipe out the

old, I think. So it's good to go slow at first.

With any ferment, if it smells really bad to

you, don't eat it. Esp. if you aren't familiar

with what it should smell like. I mean, kimchi

smells pretty bad to a lot of people, but I know

what good kimchi smells like, and I've never had

a batch of kimchi go bad (nor kefiili, for that matter).

If you aren't sure, take the grains out of that batch,

put them in some new milk (with a little thick stuff

to help it get started) and let it set for a day,

then try it. The 6-day-old kefiili, put in the fridge

and make a decision later, or test it out on your

dog (most dogs really love it, and it's good for

them. Chickens too).

-- Heidi

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Thanks Heidi, Lots of good advice there!

Nikki

Heidi <heidis@...> wrote:

> thanks, things seem to be going well with the keffili. It creates a

nice thick yogurt. I put a clump in non-organic commercial milk and a

clump stayed in the fridge until I could get organic milk. the fridge

clumps seemed to do better but I ended up just putting all the grains

back together when I got good milk. Will they keep producing more

keffili grains? I also made keffili beer w/ them (thinking they were

kefir). It seems to be fermenting but I don't really know if it's safe

to drink! It's been out on the counter for about 6 days now. I guess I

should bottle it now? How long can I wait?

You should change the milk daily. The grains stay out

on the counter in fresh milk, tho you can put them in the

fridge whenever you get too much

kefiili: they do like cold weather better.

If you leave them without fresh milk for too long,

the kefiili will separate and get very sour, and

the viili strain will die. It's always good to keep

a backup in the fridge for that reason.

But ... you could keep it out on the counter for

months and it won't be toxic. Some people

do that ... it gets weird looking and smelly,

like highly fermented cheese, which isn't

my thing really. But no one has reported it

being toxic.

As for safe to drink: most people I know

that drank their first kefir did fine with it.

For me personally, I took 1 Tbls the first time

and it felt like WW3 was going on in my

gut for the next day. I wasn't *sick* ... just

very rumbly. A few people I know seem to have

that reaction. The new bacteria wipe out the

old, I think. So it's good to go slow at first.

With any ferment, if it smells really bad to

you, don't eat it. Esp. if you aren't familiar

with what it should smell like. I mean, kimchi

smells pretty bad to a lot of people, but I know

what good kimchi smells like, and I've never had

a batch of kimchi go bad (nor kefiili, for that matter).

If you aren't sure, take the grains out of that batch,

put them in some new milk (with a little thick stuff

to help it get started) and let it set for a day,

then try it. The 6-day-old kefiili, put in the fridge

and make a decision later, or test it out on your

dog (most dogs really love it, and it's good for

them. Chickens too).

-- Heidi

---------------------------------

Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business.

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Have I been making Kefir for nothing then? My kefir is very sour, which

I like but I'm not careful about putting it back in the frig real soon.

Is the kefiili the part that is good for you and the rest not?

On Jul 4, 2006, at 12:30 PM, nikki wrote:

> If you leave them without fresh milk for too long,

> the kefiili will separate and get very sour, and

> the viili strain will die.

Parashis

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Oh no, it's just a matter of taste. Some like it

sour, some don't. The microbial difference

between the two is minimal: it's one microorganism

that is different, but it's not one of the ones

that is known to make much difference health-wise.

Kefiili was something that happened at my house

when I got viili and kefir cultures mixed. We just

like the taste better.

-- Heidi

Parashis wrote:

>

> Have I been making Kefir for nothing then? My kefir is very sour, which

> I like but I'm not careful about putting it back in the frig real soon.

> Is the kefiili the part that is good for you and the rest not?

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Guest guest

Uh, well I think my Viili turned into kefiili? my jar of viili is

creamy and has been now for several batches? not strippy anymore, even

tried to it from the mother culture I had in fridge#2 where I usualy

keep them seperate. I am very careful not to use same spoons...

Audrey

<snippet>>

> Um, sort of. The grains are kefiili, that is " kefir plus viili " . By

> themselves, they will produce kefiili. The other bottle was

> pure viili, that is, no grains. I have no idea what they looked

> like when they arrived, but the kefir grains survive better

> than the viili, and I figured if they " thinned out " (didn't produce

> the thick kefiili, just produced kefir) that maybe the viili would

> survive better without the grains.

>

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I'm not sure exactly what you mean ... is the " viili " the viili culture with

no kefir? If so, how is the kefiili doing? I don't actually keep the

viili culture by itself anymore, here, because it kept dying. The

kefiili, OTOH, seems rather robust and I haven't killed it yet.

The " stringy " part of it though, gets less in hot weather. In hot weather

it goes in the fridge, or I put it in a water bath. It really, really,

does not like heat, and keep in mind I live in a rather moderate climate

year round.

-- Heidi

P.S. And yeah, I want a root cellar too!

Audrey wrote:

>

> Uh, well I think my Viili turned into kefiili? my jar of viili is

> creamy and has been now for several batches? not strippy anymore, even

> tried to it from the mother culture I had in fridge#2 where I usualy

> keep them seperate. I am very careful not to use same spoons...

> Audrey

>

> <snippet>>

> > Um, sort of. The grains are kefiili, that is " kefir plus viili " . By

> > themselves, they will produce kefiili. The other bottle was

> > pure viili, that is, no grains. I have no idea what they looked

> > like when they arrived, but the kefir grains survive better

> > than the viili, and I figured if they " thinned out " (didn't produce

> > the thick kefiili, just produced kefir) that maybe the viili would

> > survive better without the grains.

> >

>

>

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Hello Heidi

I bough Viili, and Kefir. The Viili was stringy but is now

creamy...slowly getting better still creamy though..think maybe the

heat? Not sure if it cross cultured.

Audrey

<snippet>

>

> I'm not sure exactly what you mean ... is the " viili " the viili

culture with

> no kefir?

> The " stringy " part of it though, gets less in hot weather. In hot

weather

> it goes in the fridge, or I put it in a water bath. It really,

really,

> does not like heat, and keep in mind I live in a rather moderate

climate

> year round.

>

> -- Heidi

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Guest guest

> Hello Heidi

> I bough Viili, and Kefir. The Viili was stringy but is now

creamy...slowly getting better still creamy though..think maybe the

heat? Not sure if it cross cultured.

Audrey

Probably the heat. The viili seems to infect the kefir,

not the other way around (tho it could happen). Viili

need cold ... it helps to pop the container in the fridge

every so often, for a day or three.

-- Heidi

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