Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Hee hee. Well, I'm glad they arrived safely. I dread the day I get " inspected " and have to explain those puppies to a customs agent. If you want to amuse out a small boy, though, tell him they are rat brains. I did a " Pet Germs " class at our local school, and kefir grains and goopy kefiili were quite the hit! (BTW: I just uploaded the PDF I used for the class: you might get a kick out of it). There is a writeup in the files section: nutrition/files/ under " Kefiili " . Basically though, just put them in some fresh milk, preferably NOT raw milk. Raw milk has it's own bacteria in it, which will change the grains. Maybe change them in ways you like, maybe not. Use organic milk though, because if there are traces of antibiotics (or the stuff they use to clean cow udders) the grains won't grow well. If you use raw milk, you might want to boil it first, at least until the grains get established, and use your " extras " in the raw milk just in case. The " thick " viili part tends to die in hot weather, so you may need to put your ferment container in another container of water. Sometimes I stick mine back in the fridge to help it " thicken up " , and I always keep a backup in the fridge just in case. You can make the viili without the grains: just add some of the thick stuff to some milk and let it set. Dried viili will also survive on a cotton cloth in spore form, which is how I got kefiili in the first place (I was using cotton cloths to cover the mason jars). nixtaur wrote: > > Dear Heidi, > > I got the strangest thing in the mail the other day. I figured it's > either from you or some really wacked out serial stalker. > > Thank you so much and could you kindly tell me which is what and > direct to me directions on how to care for my new babies? > > Thanks Again! > > Nikki > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Hey Heidi, I think I just realized something that I should've realized a long time ago. Since you sent me 2 containers I thought the grains were kefir and the other bottle was keffili. Now I think that the grains are keffili and the bottle was starter milk? Am I right? Thanks, Nikki > > > > Dear Heidi, > > > > I got the strangest thing in the mail the other day. I figured it's > > either from you or some really wacked out serial stalker. > > > > Thank you so much and could you kindly tell me which is what and > > direct to me directions on how to care for my new babies? > > > > Thanks Again! > > > > Nikki > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Um, sort of. The grains are kefiili, that is " kefir plus viili " . By themselves, they will produce kefiili. The other bottle was pure viili, that is, no grains. I have no idea what they looked like when they arrived, but the kefir grains survive better than the viili, and I figured if they " thinned out " (didn't produce the thick kefiili, just produced kefir) that maybe the viili would survive better without the grains. Does that make sense? Problem is, I'm totally overwhelmed work-wise right now and didn't write up a good note. If you are getting good, thick, kefiili right now, then don't worry about it, you are good to go. My grains have been really stable for a few years now, and only got messed up once, on a long hot plane trip. -- Heidi > Hey Heidi, > I think I just realized something that I should've realized a long time ago. Since you sent me 2 containers I thought the grains were kefir and the other bottle was keffili. Now I think that the grains are keffili and the bottle was starter milk? Am I right? Thanks, Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Heidi, thanks, things seem to be going well with the keffili. It creates a nice thick yogurt. I put a clump in non-organic commercial milk and a clump stayed in the fridge until I could get organic milk. the fridge clumps seemed to do better but I ended up just putting all the grains back together when I got good milk. Will they keep producing more keffili grains? I also made keffili beer w/ them (thinking they were kefir). It seems to be fermenting but I don't really know if it's safe to drink! It's been out on the counter for about 6 days now. I guess I should bottle it now? How long can I wait? Thanks for all your help! Nikki Heidi <heidis@...> wrote: Um, sort of. The grains are kefiili, that is " kefir plus viili " . By themselves, they will produce kefiili. The other bottle was pure viili, that is, no grains. I have no idea what they looked like when they arrived, but the kefir grains survive better than the viili, and I figured if they " thinned out " (didn't produce the thick kefiili, just produced kefir) that maybe the viili would survive better without the grains. Does that make sense? Problem is, I'm totally overwhelmed work-wise right now and didn't write up a good note. If you are getting good, thick, kefiili right now, then don't worry about it, you are good to go. My grains have been really stable for a few years now, and only got messed up once, on a long hot plane trip. -- Heidi > Hey Heidi, > I think I just realized something that I should've realized a long time ago. Since you sent me 2 containers I thought the grains were kefir and the other bottle was keffili. Now I think that the grains are keffili and the bottle was starter milk? Am I right? Thanks, Nikki --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2ยข/min or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 > thanks, things seem to be going well with the keffili. It creates a nice thick yogurt. I put a clump in non-organic commercial milk and a clump stayed in the fridge until I could get organic milk. the fridge clumps seemed to do better but I ended up just putting all the grains back together when I got good milk. Will they keep producing more keffili grains? I also made keffili beer w/ them (thinking they were kefir). It seems to be fermenting but I don't really know if it's safe to drink! It's been out on the counter for about 6 days now. I guess I should bottle it now? How long can I wait? You should change the milk daily. The grains stay out on the counter in fresh milk, tho you can put them in the fridge whenever you get too much kefiili: they do like cold weather better. If you leave them without fresh milk for too long, the kefiili will separate and get very sour, and the viili strain will die. It's always good to keep a backup in the fridge for that reason. But ... you could keep it out on the counter for months and it won't be toxic. Some people do that ... it gets weird looking and smelly, like highly fermented cheese, which isn't my thing really. But no one has reported it being toxic. As for safe to drink: most people I know that drank their first kefir did fine with it. For me personally, I took 1 Tbls the first time and it felt like WW3 was going on in my gut for the next day. I wasn't *sick* ... just very rumbly. A few people I know seem to have that reaction. The new bacteria wipe out the old, I think. So it's good to go slow at first. With any ferment, if it smells really bad to you, don't eat it. Esp. if you aren't familiar with what it should smell like. I mean, kimchi smells pretty bad to a lot of people, but I know what good kimchi smells like, and I've never had a batch of kimchi go bad (nor kefiili, for that matter). If you aren't sure, take the grains out of that batch, put them in some new milk (with a little thick stuff to help it get started) and let it set for a day, then try it. The 6-day-old kefiili, put in the fridge and make a decision later, or test it out on your dog (most dogs really love it, and it's good for them. Chickens too). -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Thanks Heidi, Lots of good advice there! Nikki Heidi <heidis@...> wrote: > thanks, things seem to be going well with the keffili. It creates a nice thick yogurt. I put a clump in non-organic commercial milk and a clump stayed in the fridge until I could get organic milk. the fridge clumps seemed to do better but I ended up just putting all the grains back together when I got good milk. Will they keep producing more keffili grains? I also made keffili beer w/ them (thinking they were kefir). It seems to be fermenting but I don't really know if it's safe to drink! It's been out on the counter for about 6 days now. I guess I should bottle it now? How long can I wait? You should change the milk daily. The grains stay out on the counter in fresh milk, tho you can put them in the fridge whenever you get too much kefiili: they do like cold weather better. If you leave them without fresh milk for too long, the kefiili will separate and get very sour, and the viili strain will die. It's always good to keep a backup in the fridge for that reason. But ... you could keep it out on the counter for months and it won't be toxic. Some people do that ... it gets weird looking and smelly, like highly fermented cheese, which isn't my thing really. But no one has reported it being toxic. As for safe to drink: most people I know that drank their first kefir did fine with it. For me personally, I took 1 Tbls the first time and it felt like WW3 was going on in my gut for the next day. I wasn't *sick* ... just very rumbly. A few people I know seem to have that reaction. The new bacteria wipe out the old, I think. So it's good to go slow at first. With any ferment, if it smells really bad to you, don't eat it. Esp. if you aren't familiar with what it should smell like. I mean, kimchi smells pretty bad to a lot of people, but I know what good kimchi smells like, and I've never had a batch of kimchi go bad (nor kefiili, for that matter). If you aren't sure, take the grains out of that batch, put them in some new milk (with a little thick stuff to help it get started) and let it set for a day, then try it. The 6-day-old kefiili, put in the fridge and make a decision later, or test it out on your dog (most dogs really love it, and it's good for them. Chickens too). -- Heidi --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Have I been making Kefir for nothing then? My kefir is very sour, which I like but I'm not careful about putting it back in the frig real soon. Is the kefiili the part that is good for you and the rest not? On Jul 4, 2006, at 12:30 PM, nikki wrote: > If you leave them without fresh milk for too long, > the kefiili will separate and get very sour, and > the viili strain will die. Parashis artpages@... zine: artpagesonline.com portfolio: http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Oh no, it's just a matter of taste. Some like it sour, some don't. The microbial difference between the two is minimal: it's one microorganism that is different, but it's not one of the ones that is known to make much difference health-wise. Kefiili was something that happened at my house when I got viili and kefir cultures mixed. We just like the taste better. -- Heidi Parashis wrote: > > Have I been making Kefir for nothing then? My kefir is very sour, which > I like but I'm not careful about putting it back in the frig real soon. > Is the kefiili the part that is good for you and the rest not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Uh, well I think my Viili turned into kefiili? my jar of viili is creamy and has been now for several batches? not strippy anymore, even tried to it from the mother culture I had in fridge#2 where I usualy keep them seperate. I am very careful not to use same spoons... Audrey <snippet>> > Um, sort of. The grains are kefiili, that is " kefir plus viili " . By > themselves, they will produce kefiili. The other bottle was > pure viili, that is, no grains. I have no idea what they looked > like when they arrived, but the kefir grains survive better > than the viili, and I figured if they " thinned out " (didn't produce > the thick kefiili, just produced kefir) that maybe the viili would > survive better without the grains. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 I'm not sure exactly what you mean ... is the " viili " the viili culture with no kefir? If so, how is the kefiili doing? I don't actually keep the viili culture by itself anymore, here, because it kept dying. The kefiili, OTOH, seems rather robust and I haven't killed it yet. The " stringy " part of it though, gets less in hot weather. In hot weather it goes in the fridge, or I put it in a water bath. It really, really, does not like heat, and keep in mind I live in a rather moderate climate year round. -- Heidi P.S. And yeah, I want a root cellar too! Audrey wrote: > > Uh, well I think my Viili turned into kefiili? my jar of viili is > creamy and has been now for several batches? not strippy anymore, even > tried to it from the mother culture I had in fridge#2 where I usualy > keep them seperate. I am very careful not to use same spoons... > Audrey > > <snippet>> > > Um, sort of. The grains are kefiili, that is " kefir plus viili " . By > > themselves, they will produce kefiili. The other bottle was > > pure viili, that is, no grains. I have no idea what they looked > > like when they arrived, but the kefir grains survive better > > than the viili, and I figured if they " thinned out " (didn't produce > > the thick kefiili, just produced kefir) that maybe the viili would > > survive better without the grains. > > > > > Messages in this topic > <nutrition/message/6040;_ylc=X3oDMTM1MGc\ 0MnJtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARtc2dJZAM2MTk\ 5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE1NDQ2MTkwNAR0cGNJZAM2MDQw> > (10) Reply (via web post) > <nutrition/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOW40bXM4BF9\ TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARtc2dJZAM2MTk5BHNlYwN\ mdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTE1NDQ2MTkwNA--?act=reply & messageNum=6199> > | Start a new topic > <nutrition/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaWZuM2gzBF9\ TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHB\ jBHN0aW1lAzExNTQ0NjE5MDQ-> > > Messages > <nutrition/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZXVhamc\ yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN\ tc2dzBHN0aW1lAzExNTQ0NjE5MDQ-> > | Files > <nutrition/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJnaGcxamEyBF\ 9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNmaW\ xlcwRzdGltZQMxMTU0NDYxOTA0> > | Photos > <nutrition/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYWNuaHJ2B\ F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNwa\ G90BHN0aW1lAzExNTQ0NjE5MDQ-> > | Links > <nutrition/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJndW5lNjFwBF\ 9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNsaW\ 5rcwRzdGltZQMxMTU0NDYxOTA0> > | Database > <nutrition/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNnVqYjh\ jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN\ kYgRzdGltZQMxMTU0NDYxOTA0> > > > <;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcGRwM2Y3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5M\ jg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTE1NDQ2MTkwNA--> > > You are receiving Individual Emails Change Delivery Settings > <nutrition/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJnZXU3cjZyBF9\ TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNzdG5\ ncwRzdGltZQMxMTU0NDYxOTA0> > > Visit Your Group > <nutrition;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNnNydjVuBF9TAzk3\ MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNocGYEc3Rp\ bWUDMTE1NDQ2MTkwNA--> > | Terms of Use <> | > Unsubscribe > <mailto:nutrition-unsubscribe ?subject=Unsubscribe> > > Recent Activity > > * > 5 > New Members > <nutrition/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnbHBvdm5m\ BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2\ bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMTU0NDYxOTA0> > > Visit Your Group > <nutrition;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdWEyaTlnBF9TAzk3\ MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MDk1MARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0\ aW1lAzExNTQ0NjE5MDQ-> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Hello Heidi I bough Viili, and Kefir. The Viili was stringy but is now creamy...slowly getting better still creamy though..think maybe the heat? Not sure if it cross cultured. Audrey <snippet> > > I'm not sure exactly what you mean ... is the " viili " the viili culture with > no kefir? > The " stringy " part of it though, gets less in hot weather. In hot weather > it goes in the fridge, or I put it in a water bath. It really, really, > does not like heat, and keep in mind I live in a rather moderate climate > year round. > > -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 > Hello Heidi > I bough Viili, and Kefir. The Viili was stringy but is now creamy...slowly getting better still creamy though..think maybe the heat? Not sure if it cross cultured. Audrey Probably the heat. The viili seems to infect the kefir, not the other way around (tho it could happen). Viili need cold ... it helps to pop the container in the fridge every so often, for a day or three. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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