RE: Safety of EM/soil organisms for human consumption?

April 25, 2006

Is EM effective for Chron's? I have a friend with Chron's...

On 4/25/06, Kresser <chriskresser@...> wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> This is my first post to this board. I've been struggling with Crohn's

> Disease for 7 years

> and have tried everything under the sun, including probiotics of all sorts

> (capsules,

> homemade kefir, sauerkraut, kim chi, etc)... none of which have worked for

> me.

> Nevertheless, I was excited also to recently learn about Effective

> Microorganisms and AEM,

> EM-X, and the related beverages. They just make so much sense. And as

> someone who

> follows the Nourishing Traditions diet and uses alternative and natural

> remedies whenever

> possible, I am drawn to EM.

>

April 25, 2006

I don't know if EM is effective for Crohn's, but there are many researchers and

physicians

who believe that the intestinal flora are directly related to Crohn's Disease

(though it isn't

understood exactly how). Many people with Crohn's have some success taking

probiotics,

so I would assume that EM could be helpful. My concern is whether EM are safe

for human

consumption... hence the message.

> >

> > Hello,

> >

> > This is my first post to this board. I've been struggling with Crohn's

> > Disease for 7 years

> > and have tried everything under the sun, including probiotics of all sorts

> > (capsules,

> > homemade kefir, sauerkraut, kim chi, etc)... none of which have worked for

> > me.

> > Nevertheless, I was excited also to recently learn about Effective

> > Microorganisms and AEM,

> > EM-X, and the related beverages. They just make so much sense. And as

> > someone who

> > follows the Nourishing Traditions diet and uses alternative and natural

> > remedies whenever

> > possible, I am drawn to EM.

> >

>

April 25, 2006

Well, I can't give an authorative viewpoint, but many people consume EM all

over the world. I have heard, however, that SBO's are contraindicated in

certain conditions. Perhaps Chron's is one of those. I think Vinny can help

you more than I can. I know that Primal Defense incorporates SBO's (from EM

cultures actually, I've head). And tons of people take that.

Sorry, I am far from qualified to say.

On 4/25/06, Kresser <chriskresser@...> wrote:

>

> I don't know if EM is effective for Crohn's, but there are many

> researchers and physicians

> who believe that the intestinal flora are directly related to Crohn's

> Disease (though it isn't

> understood exactly how). Many people with Crohn's have some success

> taking probiotics,

> so I would assume that EM could be helpful. My concern is whether EM are

> safe for human

> consumption... hence the message.

>

April 25, 2006

I know very little about consuming soil organisms. I could see adding a

small amount of well kept organic soil to your vegetable ferments, to mimic

what would have come along with the veggies - but eating specifically

extracted soil organisms? It just doesn't seem quite right.

The native diet probably contained quite a bit of soil because they ate a

lot of food straight from the earth. They also worked with soil a lot more

often than we do now. As I learn more and more about nutrients which can be

absorbed through the skin, I appreciate " dirt " a lot more. I am starting

small garden (with added soil ogranisms) and I will make a point of getting

my hands in it everyday. Perhaps you might try something similar?

-Lana

April 25, 2006

> I am starting

> small garden (with added soil ogranisms) and I will make a point of getting

> my hands in it everyday. Perhaps you might try something similar?

>

> -Lana

Funny you should mention that. My wife and I just planted our summer veggies

last night. I

love getting my hands in the dirt!

April 25, 2006

>

> Well, I can't give an authorative viewpoint, but many people consume EM all

> over the world. I have heard, however, that SBO's are contraindicated in

> certain conditions. Perhaps Chron's is one of those. I think Vinny can help

> you more than I can. I know that Primal Defense incorporates SBO's (from EM

> cultures actually, I've head). And tons of people take that.

>

Hi Dirk,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I'd be very curious to know if SBOs are

contraindicated with

Crohn's Disease. So far, no one has been able to answer that question.

I am aware that many people take Primal Defense. However, I have not yet seen

any

research or evidence that SBOs are safe. Natasha Trevnev, (founder of Natren)

who is a

well-respected authority on human probiotic usage, has issued a statement saying

they

are not. Garden of Life (the manufacturer of Primal Defense) disagrees, of

course. But

unfortunately I cannot trust any information that comes from Garden of Life

because of

what I have recently learned about its founder, Jordan Rubin, and false claims

that he has

made.

What complicates this is that there is a clear profit motive on both sides.

Natren was the

#1 seller of probiotics until Primal Defense came onto the scene, and its sales

dropped

approximately 50%. Garden of Life is accusing Ms. Trevnev of debunking SBOs

simply

because she is alarmed at the drop in her company's sales. However, Garden of

Life has

repeatedly been asked by her and other parties to produce actual clinical

research

supporting the safety and efficacy of SBOs, and what they sent instead was a

marketing

brochure. They did refer to a study in their literature at one point, but it

turns out it was

performed by a bogus institution and paid for by Garden of Life.

There is so much of this in the health care industry, and I have been burned so

many

times, that at this point I feel very cautious and wary of products that are

brought to my

attention. I consider it to be a healthy skepticism, not close-mindedness. In

fact, if I told

you about the three treatments I'm doing right now for Crohn's (all natural

therapies, no

drugs), you might think I was a little too open-minded! LOL

Again, I'm not sharing this to scare anyone or challenge anyone else's

judgments. I simply

want to educate myself as much as I can about these very, very hardy and

resilient

organisms before I swallow them! I'm feeling a little discouraged at this

point, because

unless I'm missing something, there doesn't seem to be any research out there.

I'm hoping someone can prove me wrong...

Chris

April 26, 2006

One particular strain used in the Primal Defense product

about which I have read concerns is Bacillus Licheniformis.

-

> >

> > I don't know if EM is effective for Crohn's, but there are many

> > researchers and physicians

> > who believe that the intestinal flora are directly related to

Crohn's

> > Disease (though it isn't

> > understood exactly how). Many people with Crohn's have some

success

> > taking probiotics,

> > so I would assume that EM could be helpful. My concern is

whether EM are

> > safe for human

> > consumption... hence the message.

April 26, 2006

-- I cannot trust any information that comes from Garden of Life because of

what I have recently learned about its founder, Jordan Rubin, and false claims

that he has

made.---

What " false claims " has he made?

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April 26, 2006

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2006/03/gardenoflife.htm

Dietary Supplement Maker Garden of Life Settles FTC Charges

Claimed Clinical Studies Backed Primal Defense, RM-10, Living Multi, and FYI

An operation that marketed dietary supplements sold at Whole Foods Market, GNC,

the Vitamin Shoppe, and on the Internet settled Federal Trade Commission charges

that they made deceptive advertising claims about their supplements. The FTC

charged that Garden of Life, Inc., a dietary supplement company based in West

Palm Beach, Florida, and its founder and owner, Jordan S. Rubin, made

unsubstantiated claims that their supplements treated or cured a variety of

ailments, ranging from colds to cancer, and also made false claims of clinical

proof. The settlement prohibits deceptive claims about the results of tests or

studies and requires claims by the defendants to be substantiated by competent

and reliable scientific evidence.

The FTC’s complaint targeted claims about four dietary supplements: Primal

Defense, RM-10, Living Multi, and FYI. According to the complaint, the

defendants made unsubstantiated advertising claims that:

Primal Defense treats intractable immune disorders, asthma, irritable bowel

syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome, arthritis, lupus, colds, flu, and Crohn’s

disease, and reduces users’ blood cholesterol levels;

RM-10 treats cancer, helps lower users’ blood cholesterol levels, prevents and

treats cardiovascular disease, and treats immune system disorders;

Living Multi reduces the risk factor for diabetes and prevents diabetes-related

syndromes, reduces the risk of obesity, and reduces inflammation; and

FYI (For Your Inflammation) treats and prevents inflammation, including

inflammation caused by arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, sports injuries,

asthma, allergies, fibromyalgia, lupus, scleroderma, and other inflammatory

conditions.

The FTC also alleged that the defendants made false claims that clinical studies

prove that:

Primal Defense reduces users’ blood cholesterol levels by 25 percent or more;

improves users’ energy levels, memory, and concentration; and mitigates the

symptoms of most patients with chronic lymphocytic leukemia stage II;

RM-10 treats immune system disorders and cancer;

Living Multi has a proven nutritional formula; and

FYI treats rheumatoid arthritis and reduces the effects of inflammation.

Garden of Life and Jordan Rubin will pay $225,000 in consumer redress as part of

the settlement. If it is found they misrepresented their financial status, they

will be responsible for the full judgment of more than $47 million – the total

gross sales of the four dietary supplements. The settlement also prohibits the

defendants from making claims similar to the ones challenged in the FTC’s

complaint, unless they have competent and reliable scientific evidence

substantiating the claims. Furthermore, the settlement requires the defendants

to have such evidence whenever they make any claim about the health benefits,

performance, efficacy, safety, or side effects of any food, drug, or dietary

supplement, or any program that includes such a product. The defendants also are

prohibited from misrepresenting the results of any test or study when marketing

such products and programs.

The Commission vote to authorize staff to file the complaint and stipulated

final order was 5-0. The complaint and stipulated final order were filed in the

U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida on March 8, 2006.

NOTE: This stipulated final order is for settlement purposes only and does not

constitute an admission by the defendant of a law violation. A stipulated final

order requires approval by the court and has the force of law when signed by the

judge.

April 26, 2006

> One particular strain used in the Primal Defense product

> about which I have read concerns is Bacillus Licheniformis.

>

> -

What are the concerns?ct

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April 26, 2006

Just FYI, the FDA can say this about just about any suppliment company

because according to FDA rules, the only compounds that can say they cure

anything are approved medications.

-Lana

On 4/26/06, seaorca@... <seaorca@...> wrote:

>

> http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2006/03/gardenoflife.htm

> Dietary Supplement Maker Garden of Life Settles FTC Charges

> Claimed Clinical Studies Backed Primal Defense, RM-10, Living Multi, and

> FYI

> An operation that marketed dietary supplements sold at Whole Foods Market,

> GNC, the Vitamin Shoppe, and on the Internet settled Federal Trade

> Commission charges that they made deceptive advertising claims about their

> supplements. The FTC charged that Garden of Life, Inc., a dietary supplement

> company based in West Palm Beach, Florida, and its founder and owner, Jordan

> S. Rubin, made unsubstantiated claims that their supplements treated or

> cured a variety of ailments, ranging from colds to cancer, and also made

> false claims of clinical proof. The settlement prohibits deceptive claims

> about the results of tests or studies and requires claims by the defendants

> to be substantiated by competent and reliable scientific evidence.

> The FTC's complaint targeted claims about four dietary supplements: Primal

> Defense, RM-10, Living Multi, and FYI. According to the complaint, the

> defendants made unsubstantiated advertising claims that:

> Primal Defense treats intractable immune disorders, asthma, irritable

> bowel syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome, arthritis, lupus, colds, flu, and

> Crohn's disease, and reduces users' blood cholesterol levels;

>

> RM-10 treats cancer, helps lower users' blood cholesterol levels, prevents

> and treats cardiovascular disease, and treats immune system disorders;

>

> Living Multi reduces the risk factor for diabetes and prevents

> diabetes-related syndromes, reduces the risk of obesity, and reduces

> inflammation; and

>

> FYI (For Your Inflammation) treats and prevents inflammation, including

> inflammation caused by arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, sports

> injuries, asthma, allergies, fibromyalgia, lupus, scleroderma, and other

> inflammatory conditions.

> The FTC also alleged that the defendants made false claims that clinical

> studies prove that:

> Primal Defense reduces users' blood cholesterol levels by 25 percent or

> more; improves users' energy levels, memory, and concentration; and

> mitigates the symptoms of most patients with chronic lymphocytic leukemia

> stage II;

>

> RM-10 treats immune system disorders and cancer;

>

> Living Multi has a proven nutritional formula; and

>

> FYI treats rheumatoid arthritis and reduces the effects of inflammation.

> Garden of Life and Jordan Rubin will pay $225,000 in consumer redress as

> part of the settlement. If it is found they misrepresented their financial

> status, they will be responsible for the full judgment of more than $47

> million – the total gross sales of the four dietary supplements. The

> settlement also prohibits the defendants from making claims similar to the

> ones challenged in the FTC's complaint, unless they have competent and

> reliable scientific evidence substantiating the claims. Furthermore, the

> settlement requires the defendants to have such evidence whenever they make

> any claim about the health benefits, performance, efficacy, safety, or side

> effects of any food, drug, or dietary supplement, or any program that

> includes such a product. The defendants also are prohibited from

> misrepresenting the results of any test or study when marketing such

> products and programs.

> The Commission vote to authorize staff to file the complaint and

> stipulated final order was 5-0. The complaint and stipulated final order

> were filed in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida

> on March 8, 2006.

> NOTE: This stipulated final order is for settlement purposes only and does

> not constitute an admission by the defendant of a law violation. A

> stipulated final order requires approval by the court and has the force of

> law when signed by the judge.

>

April 26, 2006

Probiotics are no cure to anything. But they help the body help itself. In

people where their primary problem is intestinal dysbiosis, it will

obviously go a long way. For people like myself, more severe action is

needed, but probiotics are still important. Don't listen to claims

probiotics will " cure " you of disease. But they do make the body strong.

On 4/27/06, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote:

>

> Just FYI, the FDA can say this about just about any suppliment company

> because according to FDA rules, the only compounds that can say they cure

> anything are approved medications.

>

> -Lana

>

April 26, 2006

This was my feeling as well....ct

Just FYI, the FDA can say this about just about any suppliment company

because according to FDA rules, the only compounds that can say they cure

anything are approved medications.

-Lana

>

> http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2006/03/gardenoflife.htm

> Dietary Supplement Maker Garden of Life Settles FTC Charges

--

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April 26, 2006

Most pharmaceuticals arn't cures either - since they only treat the symptoms

and don't help your body help itself. So perhaps it was the wrong word to

choose - how about " medications " ?

-Lana

On 4/26/06, Dirk Coetsee <dirk.coetsee@...> wrote:

>

> Probiotics are no cure to anything. But they help the body help itself. In

> people where their primary problem is intestinal dysbiosis, it will

> obviously go a long way. For people like myself, more severe action is

> needed, but probiotics are still important. Don't listen to claims

> probiotics will " cure " you of disease. But they do make the body strong.

>

> On 4/27/06, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote:

> >

> > Just FYI, the FDA can say this about just about any suppliment company

> > because according to FDA rules, the only compounds that can say they

> cure

> > anything are approved medications.

> >