Re: Re: Ferment and cook beans for gas-free nutrition

[Guest guest]

Nora wrote:

>Thanks for posting this article. I can't digest beans at all, unless they are

fermented -

>tempeh, miso, and soy yogurt are well toleerated. I made the fermented beans

in Sally

>Fallons book using whey from making soy milk. While the results were yummy, I

was in

>excruciating pain from the gas. Does anyone know where I can get the correct

microbes

>to do the fermenting. The article mentions L. Caseri and L. Planatarum.

They'd probably show up in a spontaneous ferment if you left your beans

soaking for 48 hours. However, kefir grains have them both, so you could

drop a couple of kefir grains into your bean soak water and let 'er rip

for 48 hours, then reserve a portion of the soak water for the next

batch of beans.

Incidentally, here's a similar Reuters article:

http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews & storyID=11956401

And here's what the Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture said

in their press release:

http://www.soci.org/SCI/pressoffice/2003/html/pr210.jsp

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" There is more to life than simply increasing its speed. " - Mahatma Gandhi

[Guest guest]

On 4/27/06, nvbraverman <nvbraverman@...> wrote:

> Thanks for posting this article. I can't digest beans at all, unless they

> are fermented -

> tempeh, miso, and soy yogurt are well toleerated. I made the fermented

> beans in Sally

> Fallons book using whey from making soy milk. While the results were

> yummy, I was in

> excruciating pain from the gas. Does anyone know where I can get the

> correct microbes

> to do the fermenting. The article mentions L. Caseri and L. Planatarum.

Whey is a part of milk. You can't obtain it from non-milk drinks like soy milk.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

[Guest guest]

---so you could

drop a couple of kefir grains into your bean soak water and let 'er rip

for 48 hours, ---

Are you refering to milk kefir grains?

Would this hurt the grains?

Would the beans be mushy after soaking so long?

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[Guest guest]

CHRISTINE TAYLOR wrote:

> Are you refering to milk kefir grains?

Yes.

> Would this hurt the grains?

Probably

> Would the beans be mushy after soaking so long?

No idea - why not try it out, and let us know?

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn "

- The Wee Book of Calvin

[Guest guest]

>

> They'd probably show up in a spontaneous ferment if you left your beans

> soaking for 48 hours. However, kefir grains have them both, so you could

> drop a couple of kefir grains into your bean soak water and let 'er rip

> for 48 hours, then reserve a portion of the soak water for the next

> batch of beans.

OK, I started a batch of black beans yesterday. Soaked them, then

divided the batch in half. One half got some kefir beer innoculant,

plus some salt and a bit of acid to be safe.

>

> Incidentally, here's a similar Reuters article:

>

> http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews & storyID=11956401

> <http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews & storyID=11956401>

This part I don't understand:

" Smart cooks know they can ferment beans, and make them less

gas-inducing, by cooking them in the liquor from a previous batch. But

Granito's team wanted to find out just which bacteria were responsible

for this.

When the researchers fermented black beans with the two bacteria, they

found it decreased the soluble fiber content by more than 60 percent and

lowered levels of raffinose, a compound known to cause gas, by 88 percent. "

??? *Cooking* them in the liquor from a previous batch? Cooking wouldn't

really cause ANY bacterial growth (rather the opposite!). You think

maybe they meant " soaking " ? I mean, if you use the drainage water from

beans, that would have more starch/sugars etc. in it so it might make a

better ferment? Or are they talking about using a culture, saving some

from each batch to start the next?

>

> And here's what the Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture said

> in their press release:

>

> http://www.soci.org/SCI/pressoffice/2003/html/pr210.jsp

And this one talks about the taste:

" According to M Granito, " natural fermentation also has positive

effects on protein digestibility, texture and aroma, making it a very

favourable method to use. "

I'd guess they cook faster too.

I'm kind of excited about this. I can't do miso any more, because most

of it seems to have barley starter (it doesn't say so on the label but I

get really itchy from all the brands). But kefir-fermented beans would

be *easy*.

-- Heidi

> --

[Guest guest]

Heidi wrote:

>[...]

>> http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews & storyID=11956401

>This part I don't understand:

>

> " Smart cooks know they can ferment beans, and make them less

>gas-inducing, by cooking them in the liquor from a previous batch. But

>Granito's team wanted to find out just which bacteria were responsible

>for this. [...] "

>[...]

>??? *Cooking* them in the liquor from a previous batch? Cooking wouldn't

>really cause ANY bacterial growth (rather the opposite!). You think

>maybe they meant " soaking " ? I mean, if you use the drainage water from

>beans, that would have more starch/sugars etc. in it so it might make a

>better ferment? Or are they talking about using a culture, saving some

>from each batch to start the next?

Note that this is a Reuters reporter writing that bit. Probably doesn't

know that cooking involves heat (I mean, that all happens in the kitchen

before the waiter brings it out, right?)

But a quick Google (why didn't I do this yesterday?) yields this

article, which tells a little more of the story:

http://www.wacotrib.com/health/content/shared-auto/healthnews/gasi/514074.html

<excerpt>

For the study, Granito and her colleagues used a natural fermentation

process to see if they could reduce a type of compound in beans called

a-galactosides that is known to increase flatulence. They also looked at

reducing soluble dietary fiber, which is also associated with

flatulence.

The beans, which had been ground into flour, were put into 10 sealed

glass containers that held distilled water, and they were fermented for

24, 48, 72, and 96 hours, respectively. They found the fermentation

removed all the soluble fiber. The a-galactosides were reduced

dramatically, by 72 percent after 48 hours to 95 percent after 96 hours.

Also improved was the nutritional value of the beans, the study

reported, By breaking down formerly indigestible compounds, the

nutritional components of the bean, including vitamin B2, would be more

readily absorbed in the body.

April Mason, a professor of nutrition at Purdue University who has done

similar research on beans and flatulence, finds interesting the study's

finding that soluble fiber produces gas. " It's mostly associated with

insoluble fiber, which gets to the lower GI tract and ferments there,

which causes the gas, " Mason says.

But she says that 96 hours is too long to ferment the beans if you want

a final product that someone will eat.

" It's pretty odiferous, at least when wet, and gets a tart taste because

there's a lot of acid in the product, " she says. " You want to be sure,

if you're doing this, that people are going to eat it. "

</excerpt>

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn "

- The Wee Book of Calvin

[Guest guest]

> Whey is a part of milk. You can't obtain it from non-milk drinks like soy

milk.

> Mike

Right on, Mike.

It's just veggie squeezings.

Darrell

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> I'll bet we could use a cup or two of kefir whey added to the soaking

> beans instead of a couple of kefir grains and the results would be the

> same. What do you think?

>

>

>

Yeah, that's basically what I did. (Except I used kefir beer

because I don't do casein).

It occurs to me that the original experiment they didn't

soak the bean either ... just ground them up. I soaked

them for a day so they'd start sprouting, THEN started

fermenting them.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

So this is different than just forgetting the beans, making burgers for

dinner and then finding the beans again at lunch the next day with froth on

top, rising them and then cooking?

Connie

Re: Re: Ferment and cook beans for gas-free nutrition

wrote:

> I'll bet we could use a cup or two of kefir whey added to the soaking

> beans instead of a couple of kefir grains and the results would be the

> same. What do you think?

>

>

>

Yeah, that's basically what I did. (Except I used kefir beer

because I don't do casein).

It occurs to me that the original experiment they didn't

soak the bean either ... just ground them up. I soaked

them for a day so they'd start sprouting, THEN started

fermenting them.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Connie Hampton wrote:

> So this is different than just forgetting the beans, making burgers for

> dinner and then finding the beans again at lunch the next day with

> froth on

> top, rising them and then cooking?

>

> Connie

I'm not sure that it is any different. The writup talked about " boiling

the beans

in liquor from the previous batch " in the same breath as " fermenting " and

something done by " experienced cooks " ... I'm guessing they meant plain ol'

soaking which yeah, does start fermenting if you don't keep changing the

water.

I added some kefir beer and salt though, to get it going in " my "

direction.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Hey Isao,

If you have your own kefir grains, you have a permanent supply of

lactobacillus! I'm thinking that adding a little kefir or kefir whey to the

water when soaking beans will keep the gas away :-)

and the K9's

-----

> If L.Casei can work ,some other lacto-bachills can work as well.

> L.Casei must be kept on purchasing...they are not strong bachills.

> Maybe more money than gas cost?