Re: GF Dosa Sourdough

[Guest guest]

Heidi wrote:

>I made some dosa-do (our name for the bean/rice kefir fermented mix).

>[...]

>Third batch, also didn't rise. So in frustration, I just ignored it for

>a few days. Then it rose ... a little. I baked it, thinking to feed it

>to the chickens.

>

>But sheesh ... it is *delicious*! I mean, we are talking gourmet

>sourdough here. [...]

Excellent timing, Heidi!

Yesterday, I started a batch of dosa batter, without any inoculant, and

this morning it hadn't risen. So, I whisked in about half a cup of GF

sourdough starter, and we went out for the afternoon. When we got home,

it had more than doubled in size - ready for dosa or whatever else!

Due to my wife's enthusiasm, we had quite a lot of batter. I had a look

at the computer to see what to do next, and lo! behold! Heidi has made a

loaf of bread with this stuff! And it just so happens that we'd just put

the oven on to bake a loaf of GF sourdough... so now it has two loaves

in there

Thanks for shortcutting our experiments - I wasn't going to try the loaf

idea until the weekend, but now we've got one on the way anyway!

cheers,

Ross.

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn "

- The Wee Book of Calvin

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

Can I have your dosa-do recipe?

-Lana

[Guest guest]

So Ross, how did it turn out?

-- Heidi

>

>

> Due to my wife's enthusiasm, we had quite a lot of batter. I had a look

> at the computer to see what to do next, and lo! behold! Heidi has made a

> loaf of bread with this stuff! And it just so happens that we'd just put

> the oven on to bake a loaf of GF sourdough... so now it has two loaves

> in there

>

> Thanks for shortcutting our experiments - I wasn't going to try the loaf

> idea until the weekend, but now we've got one on the way anyway!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lana Gibbons wrote:

> Heidi,

>

> Can I have your dosa-do recipe?

>

> -Lana

>

It's not really a recipe yet, but here's what I did:

2 cups rice (I used short-grain)

1 cup beans (I used red beans, but I'm experimenting with others).

Soak in water for a day or two.

Rinse.

Pulverize in the blender with a little salt

Add some kefir beer and let them ferment for a day.

Put in the fridge or use.

To make dosas, just take the fermented batter and make it

into crepes. They spoon it on in a spiral onto a hot griddle,

but you can experiment.

To make bread, I basically just added some flour to

thicken it (rice flour, in my case: probably buckwheat

or sorghum would be better). I had problems getting it

to rise: Ross's idea of using a sourdough starter (or even

plain yeast) might work. Or maybe I let it ferment too long.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Heidi wrote:

> So Ross, how did it turn out?

Not bad, actually. I was baking the other loaf (buckwheat flour / brown

rice flour) at 250°C (480°F) to get it to be less sticky on the inside,

so the idli loaf came out with a hard, crumbly crust - but inside the

crust was a really nice, fluffy white bread. SWMBO was well pleased! We

just need to mess around with temperatures and times now.

What temperature / time did you bake your loaf at? And was it sticky on

the inside? I've found that my wholewheat and rye loaves come out of the

oven a little sticky but are fine the day after if wrapped in a

tea-towel, but my buckwheat / brown rice loaves stay sticky (but things

are improving as I raise the temp and extend the bake time). I'd really

love to get a nice GF sourdough loaf that tastes good and can be used

for bread, not just toast (albeit her loveliness does love her toast! We

went away for a few days, and she took a loaf with her to make toast in

the motel room)

Today, I'll de-hull some chickpeas I soaked overnight, and have a crack

at chickpea and rice idli batter. Will use my sourdough starter to get

it fermenting again. Also need to make dosa for breakfast

Oh, and what beans and rice were you using, and in what proportions? We

used the white urad dal (i.e. black urad dal with the skin removed) with

arborio rice, 2 cups urad to 5 cups rice. I think you said you used

little red beans - does that mean adzuki beans?

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn "

- The Wee Book of Calvin

[Guest guest]

Heidi wrote:

>[...]

>Soak in water for a day or two.

>Rinse.

>Pulverize in the blender with a little salt

Ah, that was the other thing - our little blender really struggled

through blending the urad dal. I ended up blending the rice in our

little food processor instead. I don't think the old style of blender is

well suited to grinding urad dal!

>[...] I had problems getting it

>to rise: Ross's idea of using a sourdough starter (or even

>plain yeast) might work. Or maybe I let it ferment too long.

I was hoping that it would start fermenting nicely with just the

fenugreek, but that didn't work, so I whisked in a half cup of sourdough

starter and it really took off - more than doubled in size over eight

hours or so.

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn "

- The Wee Book of Calvin

[Guest guest]

Ross McKay wrote:

>

>

> Ah, that was the other thing - our little blender really struggled

> through blending the urad dal. I ended up blending the rice in our

> little food processor instead. I don't think the old style of blender is

> well suited to grinding urad dal!

Yeah, I have a Vita-mix. Even so, it smelled like ozone.

I guess traditionally they used a grinding stone. Wouldn't

be too bad, really, it's pretty soft after the soaking. Maybe I should

get one!

>

> I was hoping that it would start fermenting nicely with just the

> fenugreek, but that didn't work, so I whisked in a half cup of sourdough

> starter and it really took off - more than doubled in size over eight

> hours or so.

I had kefir beer in it, and it bubbled a LOT for a day.

After that, it didn't. So I think a day is too long,

too much bubbling!

For your other questions:

The beans were about like pinto beans, but all red/brown. I

don't know where I got them. This batch I'm using black

beans. I should try the lentils though.

The rice was short-grain oriental rice. Sticky when you

cook it, makes good sushi, but it's not " glutinous " rice.

And yeah, I'm with you on looking for a good " perfect

recipe " ! This one was close! I think it was sticky mainly

because it didn't rise much. But it sure isn't crumbly,

which has been our major problem.

Here are some great GF tips BTW:

http://alamoceliac.org/actipstoriseornottorise.html

http://alamoceliac.org/actipsbreadbakingtips.html

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Heidi wrote:

>I had kefir beer in it, and it bubbled a LOT for a day.

>After that, it didn't. So I think a day is too long,

>too much bubbling!

Yes, too much, I'm sure - ours was definitely ready for use after eight

hours of fermenting with a starter.

>[...]

>And yeah, I'm with you on looking for a good " perfect

>recipe " ! This one was close! I think it was sticky mainly

>because it didn't rise much. But it sure isn't crumbly,

>which has been our major problem.

It was only crumbly on the outside - crust like concrete, crumbly when

sawn or otherwise broken. Inside was a delightful, moist, soft bread!

>Here are some great GF tips BTW:

>

>http://alamoceliac.org/actipstoriseornottorise.html

>http://alamoceliac.org/actipsbreadbakingtips.html

Thanks, will have a read of them. Our buckwheat / brown rice bread with

xanthum and guar gum is pretty good, not crumbly at all, has a nice

crust, and tastes like a great sourdough - it's just a little sticky

when cut. I chatted with a gluten-free baker in Melbourne, and she told

me to cut back on the gums a little, raise the temperature to 250°C, and

bake for 75 minutes - seems to be almost right now (just a tiny bit

sticky). So maybe I'm nearly there with that recipe which means it's

time to move on to something else!

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" There is more to life than simply increasing its speed. " - Mahatma Gandhi

[Guest guest]

Ross McKay wrote:

>

> It was only crumbly on the outside - crust like concrete, crumbly when

> sawn or otherwise broken. Inside was a delightful, moist, soft bread!

Mine had a really hard crust too, BTW. But it had sat out for 2 days

so had dried out.

Sometimes when I bake bread though, I use a pan of water

in the oven. That helps the crust alot. I got the idea from our

water smoker. I baked bread out in it once, and it had

a great crust. <http://alamoceliac.org/actipsbreadbakingtips.html>

> Thanks, will have a read of them. Our buckwheat / brown rice bread with

> xanthum and guar gum is pretty good, not crumbly at all, has a nice

> crust, and tastes like a great sourdough - it's just a little sticky

> when cut. I chatted with a gluten-free baker in Melbourne, and she told

> me to cut back on the gums a little, raise the temperature to 250°C, and

> bake for 75 minutes - seems to be almost right now (just a tiny bit

> sticky). So maybe I'm nearly there with that recipe which means it's

> time to move on to something else!

Y'know, I never would have dared such a high heat for so long!

I'll have to try it! I tried a " high heat turkey " once, and it really

did nicely.

I'm not against xanthan and I do use it, but you are right, it

makes it a little sticky. Also I like the idea, aesthetically, of

few ingredients. Simple is good!

I have another batch bubbling for the AM ...

-- Heidi

> --

[Guest guest]

Heidi wrote:

>Mine had a really hard crust too, BTW. But it had sat out for 2 days

>so had dried out.

>

>Sometimes when I bake bread though, I use a pan of water

>in the oven. That helps the crust alot. I got the idea from our

>water smoker. I baked bread out in it once, and it had

>a great crust. <http://alamoceliac.org/actipsbreadbakingtips.html>

Yes, I had meant to do that this time, but forgot; it was enough that I

remembered to cover the other loaf with foil (q.v.)

>Y'know, I never would have dared such a high heat for so long!

>I'll have to try it! I tried a " high heat turkey " once, and it really

>did nicely.

Just watch that the top doesn't burn on you. My friend the GF baker told

me that GF flours need baking at higher temperatures because they have a

higher gelatinising temperature, but that " the trick is then to do this

without burning the bread "

I covered the top with foil, slashed to allow the loaf to breath, to

keep the direct hot blast off the loaf (fan-forced oven) and it seemed

to work OK. Should be even better with a pan of water in the oven too.

Apparently, commercial bakers' ovens have steam injection to maintain a

nice crust (or so says Silverton in her sourdough book).

If you do try it, work up in steps and check the inside of the loaf with

a skewer / cake tester. I found that my loaf needs the extra time / heat

in my oven with my ingredients and methods, but if you followed just

time and heat with different stuff you could bake a charcoal brick

>I'm not against xanthan and I do use it, but you are right, it

>makes it a little sticky. Also I like the idea, aesthetically, of

>few ingredients. Simple is good!

That's my next trick - make a loaf without guar or xanthum gum. But I

want to get one loaf right first! Pretty close now... and the idli

batter loaf looks promising...

>I have another batch bubbling for the AM ...

I've stuck a wheat/rye loaf on to proof, bake later, so will leave the

next idli batter until tomorrow. An extra day's soaking won't hurt the

chickpeas or rice.

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" The lawn could stand another mowing; funny, I don't even care "

- Elvis Costello