Re: amazake -- a new starter culture every time?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I have prepared Koji rice from those very spores..not difficult but

definitely a more involved procedure that is alot like making tempeh..except

you're cooking rice (steaming ideally) instead of soybeans and incubating at

a higher temperature..

To make amazake (I've done this twice) you incubate some cooked rice, mixed

with a bit of water and koji rice..in 12-24 hours (if I remember correctly)

you end up with sweet amazake..

So..to answer your question, no you can't add some finished amazake to fresh

steamed rice to make more..you always must start with some fresh Koji

rice..whether you prepare it yourself from the spores or not..I think that

the starch converting Koji enzymes get exausted in this process..

BUT, you can propagate the spores themselves aka " Koji Kin " by preparing

Koji* rice *per the usual methods/instructions and then incubating beyond

the mycellial growth stages on into sporulation..dry..grind..then you have

your own huge supply of " Koji Kin " Hope this helps..

I have always found it interesting that the Koji mold (aspergillus orayzae)

and many Malted grains (sprouted & dried) both possess these useful starch

converting enzymes (especially barley) that have been employed by brewers

for centuries....a reminder of our very holographic universe..

Take Care,

Beau

On 4/9/06, Anton <michaelantonparker@...> wrote:

>

> Quick question for anyone into amazake:

>

> Once you get started, can you use the previous batch as a starter, or

> do you need to buy new koji starter culture?

>

> Just for reference, I see on gemcultures.com that you can get a 40gm

> packet of koji spore for US$15 that will ferment 440 pounds of rice

> for amazake, which seems very inexpensive. A second, less economical

> option is offered too, buying dried koji (the actual koji, not the

> spores of aspergillus oryzae) for US$17 sufficient to make 10 quarts

> of amazake.

>

> By the way, here's a link to Dom's page on amazake:

> http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/koji.html#Amasake

>

> Thanks!

>

> Mike

> SE Pennsylvania

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

[beau] BUT, you can propagate the spores themselves aka " Koji Kin " by preparing

Koji* rice *per the usual methods/instructions and then incubating beyond

the mycellial growth stages on into sporulation..dry..grind..then you have

your own huge supply of " Koji Kin " Hope this helps..

[Mike] Thanks Beau! Actually, propagating the koji-kin is what I had

in mind, so that's great news! Sounds like fun! I have a friend

really enthused about amazake and I think I'm gonna jump into it too,

which is the perfect opportunity to start making my own miso (modelled

after those great soy-free varieties sold by South River Miso...)!!

It's about time!

You mentioned making amazake twice... Any reason it hasn't become a

more regular item?

[beau] I have always found it interesting that the Koji mold

(aspergillus orayzae)

and many Malted grains (sprouted & dried) both possess these useful starch

converting enzymes (especially barley) that have been employed by brewers

for centuries....a reminder of our very holographic universe..

[Mike] Nice thought!

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

[Guest guest]

>

> [Mike] You mentioned making amazake twice... Any reason it hasn't become a

> more regular item?

[beau] It was a little difficult for my incubator (that I originally

constructed for tempeh) to maintain the higher temp..( my design used a

water bath with an aquarium heater in an ice chest) ..not to mention that

we've moved since then and I just haven't gotten back around to it.. Great

stuff though..I also made a small batch of cloudy sake' during this time

(Doburoku) That was a deliciously wholesome *and* intoxicating beverage

indeed!

I have been getting my ferments back into rotation now though as time and

equipment permit..

Currently I have Kimchi, Kombucha, Kefir (the essential K's) also some water

Kefir (aka Tibicos) that I sadly neglect with a passion LOL. I'll bless them

with a change of liquids and fermentables soon though...

*...And* lately amidst all that I have been having MUCH fun brewing beer

(and even more fun building contraptions to aid in the process) and also

even have a small 1 gal batch of Raspberry Cyser that should be ready to

bottle anyday now..

So amazake and an accompanying batch of Sake' should end up on the agenda

sooner or later..LOL.

I'm one of those " try everything at least once " types (with the necessary

exeptions of course) and still have homemade Miso and Shoyu (along with

some other ferments that I don't even know about yet) to try..

I've done tempeh and natto a couple times..even had a nuka pot going for

awhile..but we all know that you can only ferment so many things at once and

actually manage to eat, bottle, feed or refrigerate the stuff before it

turns into something not so good..I'm working on refining my organization

and timing to enjoy as many as I can though..

Take Care,

Beau

[Guest guest]

> Hi ,

This is Dominic's site for the asian foods your asking about. Sorry, if

you already have this link. I have been reading them myself to learn

about making at home new spores culture starters. Made my first batch

of tempe. Ah, I see here when double checked that is was the Natto that

you could take a bit of and make more, also tempe...Good reading though.

-Audrey

Anyone got any other links of information for these items?

http://users.chariot.net.au/%7Edna/koji.html

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the instructions to make my own home supply of Koji Kin,

Beau. I was considering emailing Dominic otherwise.

-Audrey

<snippet>

>BUT, you can propagate the spores themselves aka " Koji Kin " by

preparing

> Koji* rice *per the usual methods/instructions and then incubating

beyond

> the mycellial growth stages on into sporulation..dry..grind..then you

have

> your own huge supply of " Koji Kin " Hope this helps..

> Beau

>

[Guest guest]

Ah, so it was a aquarium heater you used in the picture I saw then.

Gets hard pressed to find places for all these things, with us trying

to sell the house next spring.

Yes, I know how that is getting to be trying everything at least

once, and not being able to maintain it all at once though eventualy.

Rassberry sounds great. Forgot what is Cyser?

-Audrey

>

> <snippet>

> [beau] It was a little difficult for my incubator (that I originally

> constructed for tempeh) to maintain the higher temp..( my design

used a

> water bath with an aquarium heater in an ice chest)

Rassberry sounds great

> (and even more fun building contraptions to aid in the process) and

also

> even have a small 1 gal batch of Raspberry Cyser that should be

ready to

> bottle anyday now..> Beau

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Rassberry sounds great. Forgot what is Cyser?

> -Audrey

>

Hi Audrey,

Cyser is what you get when you make a Mead (honeywine) but use apple juice

rather than water..

A Melomel is a Mead made with any sort of fruit..

So maybe I'm making a Raspberry Cyser Melomel..LOL

There is a list of over twenty " special names " for fermented honey

drinks that originated in midevil times but are still used by homebrewers so

it's difficult to figure out what to call some combinations..

Metheglin (I think) is a Mead made with herbs...a Braggot, well that's kind

of a Mead/Beer...Lots more of them..

Might have to start a new thread eh?

Beau

>

[Guest guest]

Audrey wrote:

>Anyone got any other links of information for these items?

>http://users.chariot.net.au/%7Edna/koji.html

http://olen.eng.ohio-state.edu/sake/

http://www.fao.org/docrep/x2184e/x2184e09.htm

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Foodpia/1751/index.html (page encoded in

EUC-JP character set, with english)

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

Reporter: " What do you think of Western civilization? "

Gandhi: " I think it would be a good idea! "

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much. I had the second one on my main computer but it is

down right now. I am also missing a kewl one for a forum on old

cheese,koumis.....

-Audrey

>

> http://olen.eng.ohio-state.edu/sake/

> http://www.fao.org/docrep/x2184e/x2184e09.htm

> http://www.geocities.co.jp/Foodpia/1751/index.html (page encoded in

> EUC-JP character set, with english)

> --

> Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

> Reporter: " What do you think of Western civilization? "

> Gandhi: " I think it would be a good idea! "

>