Wild Salmon

[Guest guest]

I am now trying to get hold of wild salmon, should I eat it raw as

sushi..should I steam it or buy it smoked?

cheers

[Guest guest]

On 2/22/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@...> wrote:

> I normally just steam the salmon..I eat sardines, maqueral and almon

> mainly for nice fresh omega 3 ...but I was really surprised recently

> to find out how easy it is to get wild salmon...

[Mike] Correction: that would be " salmon labelled as wild salmon " !

Real wild salmon is not so easy to get and never cheap. Suffice to say

the inexpensive stuff in cans using suggestive phrases but not

technically claiming to be wild is most definitely not wild! Check

Onibasu for the NY Times expose last year on false labelling practices

in upscale markets...

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

[Guest guest]

Mike

I get it directly from a Processor in Alaska

> > I normally just steam the salmon..I eat sardines, maqueral and

almon

> > mainly for nice fresh omega 3 ...but I was really surprised

recently

> > to find out how easy it is to get wild salmon...

>

> [Mike] Correction: that would be " salmon labelled as wild salmon " !

> Real wild salmon is not so easy to get and never cheap. Suffice to

say

> the inexpensive stuff in cans using suggestive phrases but not

> technically claiming to be wild is most definitely not wild! Check

> Onibasu for the NY Times expose last year on false labelling

practices

> in upscale markets...

>

> Mike

> SE Pennsylvania

>

[Guest guest]

Mike, I tried Googling for the info you mentioned in

the NYT, but came up empty... In the process of the

search, though, I came across a site called " Fishing

Hurts. " They list all the reasons to avoid fish, farm

raised in particular. It was enough to make me swear

off fish! The practices of the industry are

disgusting, contributing to the sad state of the

planet.

DeAnn

--- Anton

<michaelantonparker@...> wrote:

> On 2/22/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@...> wrote:

> > I normally just steam the salmon..I eat sardines,

> maqueral and almon

> > mainly for nice fresh omega 3 ...but I was really

> surprised recently

> > to find out how easy it is to get wild salmon...

>

> [Mike] Correction: that would be " salmon labelled as

> wild salmon " !

> Real wild salmon is not so easy to get and never

> cheap. Suffice to say

> the inexpensive stuff in cans using suggestive

> phrases but not

> technically claiming to be wild is most definitely

> not wild! Check

> Onibasu for the NY Times expose last year on false

> labelling practices

> in upscale markets...

>

> Mike

> SE Pennsylvania

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

wild salmon fish are mainly caught by individuals and sold to a

larger concern..

> > > I normally just steam the salmon..I eat sardines,

> > maqueral and almon

> > > mainly for nice fresh omega 3 ...but I was really

> > surprised recently

> > > to find out how easy it is to get wild salmon...

> >

> > [Mike] Correction: that would be " salmon labelled as

> > wild salmon " !

> > Real wild salmon is not so easy to get and never

> > cheap. Suffice to say

> > the inexpensive stuff in cans using suggestive

> > phrases but not

> > technically claiming to be wild is most definitely

> > not wild! Check

> > Onibasu for the NY Times expose last year on false

> > labelling practices

> > in upscale markets...

> >

> > Mike

> > SE Pennsylvania

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Deming's label definitely states their product is

WILD. I checked their website, Pan Sea Foods,

and they reiterate that it's wild fish caught off the

coast of Alaska. It's somewhat reassuring to know

that it's individually caught, but makes one wonder

how fresh it is really and what quality controls come

into play that being the case.

--- kefir_king <kefir_king@...> wrote:

> wild salmon fish are mainly caught by individuals

> and sold to a

> larger concern..

>

> > > > I normally just steam the salmon..I eat

> sardines,

> > > maqueral and almon

> > > > mainly for nice fresh omega 3 ...but I was

> really

> > > surprised recently

> > > > to find out how easy it is to get wild

> salmon...

> > >

> > > [Mike] Correction: that would be " salmon

> labelled as

> > > wild salmon " !

> > > Real wild salmon is not so easy to get and never

> > > cheap. Suffice to say

> > > the inexpensive stuff in cans using suggestive

> > > phrases but not

> > > technically claiming to be wild is most

> definitely

> > > not wild! Check

> > > Onibasu for the NY Times expose last year on

> false

> > > labelling practices

> > > in upscale markets...

> > >

> > > Mike

> > > SE Pennsylvania

> > >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Regarding parasites of fish,

Anisaxis is the name of parasite and they can not be killed by

vinegar,wasabi nor soy sauce.

The safest way is either heart well or freeze them below 20degree C

morethan 24 hours.

Fortunately salmon fillet textures are not effected by Individually

Quantitive Freezing so much,So once freezing treat maybe the safest way.

I would suggest to add 2 entree recipes in this discussion group.

1.Salmon porch with kimuchi

In shallow pan,lay salmon fillet and tofu,cabbage,potatos carrots and

onion. pour fish stock or chicken stock. In center of pan lay kimuchi.

boil to cook. Upon everything is ready,check the taste,add kimuchi if

necsesary.

2.Salmon and Sake Koji soup (Sanpei jiru)

In deep pan,fish stock or chicken stock.put salmon fillet,(with skin

if you are OK),any parts except belly,daikon,tofu and vegetable of your

choice. Boil once and turn lower heat. Add Sake koji to taste.

This one warms you up especially on cold days.

Both taste better with salmon cut into smaller size in the pan.

Bon apetite !

Isao

[Guest guest]

I found that site the other day as well, then I noticed that it is

represented by PETA... IMO those folks are kind of nutty, note that their #1

concern is that fish are smart and it hurts *them.. *

* *Then they are rather extreme regarding the other risks to *us.. *I love

and care for all of gods creatures and don't believe in unnecessary harm for

any creature, but we've got to eat something and as far as parasites go,

people get more of them from eating raw vegetables (that aren't properly

prepared with a vinegar or peroxide soak) than they do from properly cooked

fish..

It's always been confusing for me (and many others here I'm sure) regarding

what to eat, what not to eat and why, definitely a complicated and very

controversial topic. Are we all supposed to evolve to vegetarianism, I wish

I knew.

I was a vegetarian for 3 years but I was 6' @ 140lbs and didn't feel all

that well, so I started eating meat again, it seems to do me well..

Sorry, got a little sidetracked, just always asking myself what is right and

true..

Beau

--

Evolving Creations Glass

www.evolvingcreations.com

On 2/22/06, DeAnn Hartman <demahart1@...> wrote:

>

> Mike, I tried Googling for the info you mentioned in

> the NYT, but came up empty... In the process of the

> search, though, I came across a site called " Fishing

> Hurts. " They list all the reasons to avoid fish, farm

> raised in particular. It was enough to make me swear

> off fish! The practices of the industry are

> disgusting, contributing to the sad state of the

> planet.

>

> DeAnn

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would say moderation in all things, and no excessive eating of

anything in particular..

As far as vegetarian goes, you could be a Vegetarian but distinctly

unhealthy too...

I tend to eat half raw/half cooked organic vegtables, fish for my

omega 3 and protein..very little or no red meat ...except the

occasional wild meat...no chicken except the occasional organicly

raised chicken..organic eggs

Little carbohydrates..i.e. No bread, No pasta and no rice...shame on

bread because I liked bread..so no sandwiches sigh..

Spring Water, kefir and fruit, nut, sprouted foods...

Well thats it...

> >

> > Mike, I tried Googling for the info you mentioned in

> > the NYT, but came up empty... In the process of the

> > search, though, I came across a site called " Fishing

> > Hurts. " They list all the reasons to avoid fish, farm

> > raised in particular. It was enough to make me swear

> > off fish! The practices of the industry are

> > disgusting, contributing to the sad state of the

> > planet.

> >

> > DeAnn

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Freezing works quite nicely.

Here's a raw recipe from BBC Food site. Tasty!

Chinese raw salmon sticks

by Phil Vickery

from Ready Steady Cook

Serves 4

Preparation time less than 30 mins

Cooking time no cooking required

Ingredients

150g/6oz salmon fillet

freshly ground black pepper

soy sauce

olive oil

1 orange, peeled and segmented

Method

1. Cut the salmon into 10 even-sized cubes.

2. Coat each salmon cube in plenty of ground black pepper.

3. Place each cube of salmon on a cocktail stick.

4. Dip each peppered cube of salmon in plenty of soy, then a little oil.

5. Serve arranged on a plate with the orange segments.

NB. Pregnant women, babies and young children and the elderly should not eat

this dish as it contains raw salmon.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Isao Haraguchi " <dw1@...>

Regarding parasites of fish,

Anisaxis is the name of parasite and they can not be killed by

vinegar,wasabi nor soy sauce.

The safest way is either heart well or freeze them below 20degree C

morethan 24 hours.

Fortunately salmon fillet textures are not effected by Individually

Quantitive Freezing so much,So once freezing treat maybe the safest way.

I would suggest to add 2 entree recipes in this discussion group.

1.Salmon porch with kimuchi

In shallow pan,lay salmon fillet and tofu,cabbage,potatos carrots and

onion. pour fish stock or chicken stock. In center of pan lay kimuchi.

boil to cook. Upon everything is ready,check the taste,add kimuchi if

necsesary.

2.Salmon and Sake Koji soup (Sanpei jiru)

In deep pan,fish stock or chicken stock.put salmon fillet,(with skin

if you are OK),any parts except belly,daikon,tofu and vegetable of your

choice. Boil once and turn lower heat. Add Sake koji to taste.

This one warms you up especially on cold days.

Both taste better with salmon cut into smaller size in the pan.

Bon apetite !

Isao

[Guest guest]

That's pretty much where I'm at, just try to maintain a balance with

whatever I do..

If you like bread, I believe that whole grain wheat bread is ok, whole

grains in general are not bad, it's the refined white flours that whack out

the bodys insulin response, just like white refined sugars. Whole grains are

absorbed slowly and are properly absorbed in the same way that natural fruit

sugars are more gradually taken in when consumed as whole fruit.. Moderation

is still important but these forms of carbohydrates are the best. Potatoes

with the skin on etc..

Brown rice is a great nutritious and cleansing grain when cooked properly

too..

Beau

On 2/23/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@...> wrote:

>

> I would say moderation in all things, and no excessive eating of

> anything in particular..

> As far as vegetarian goes, you could be a Vegetarian but distinctly

> unhealthy too...

> I tend to eat half raw/half cooked organic vegtables, fish for my

> omega 3 and protein..very little or no red meat ...except the

> occasional wild meat...no chicken except the occasional organicly

> raised chicken..organic eggs

> Little carbohydrates..i.e. No bread, No pasta and no rice...shame on

> bread because I liked bread..so no sandwiches sigh..

> Spring Water, kefir and fruit, nut, sprouted foods...

> Well thats it...

>

[Guest guest]

> * *Then they are rather extreme regarding the other risks to *us.. *I love

> and care for all of gods creatures and don't believe in unnecessary harm for

> any creature, but we've got to eat something and as far as parasites go,

> people get more of them from eating raw vegetables (that aren't properly

> prepared with a vinegar or peroxide soak) than they do from properly cooked

> fish..

I've known a lot of Asians, who eat raw fish a LOT.

None of them seemed overly sick or suffering.

Actually all my friends were robustly healty.

Well, maybe *some* get parasites sometimes ... but

overall, the Japanese outlive us by a decade, I think?

So whatever parasites they are getting aren't exactly

causing great decimation.

There have been cases of Asians getting parasites,

but when it happens, they don't seem to be

terribly hard to get rid of. Fish parasites

don't seem to be as much of a problem as,

say, hookworm, which used to be endemic in

the US before folks started wearing shoes more.

Also, most of the folks I know who won't

eat " raw " fish have no problems with Lox, which

are, basically, raw fish!

Anyway, I get frozen fish mostly so I don't

worry too much about it.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I just had a beautifull wild salmon stake for lunch..I steamed it

with steamed organic vegies (broclie and butternut)...great...

I dont think parasites is an issue..heidei..I think it is mainly the

Japanese who eat raw fish?

>

>

> > * *Then they are rather extreme regarding the other risks to

*us.. *I love

> > and care for all of gods creatures and don't believe in

unnecessary harm for

> > any creature, but we've got to eat something and as far as

parasites go,

> > people get more of them from eating raw vegetables (that aren't

properly

> > prepared with a vinegar or peroxide soak) than they do from

properly cooked

> > fish..

>

> I've known a lot of Asians, who eat raw fish a LOT.

> None of them seemed overly sick or suffering.

> Actually all my friends were robustly healty.

>

> Well, maybe *some* get parasites sometimes ... but

> overall, the Japanese outlive us by a decade, I think?

> So whatever parasites they are getting aren't exactly

> causing great decimation.

>

> There have been cases of Asians getting parasites,

> but when it happens, they don't seem to be

> terribly hard to get rid of. Fish parasites

> don't seem to be as much of a problem as,

> say, hookworm, which used to be endemic in

> the US before folks started wearing shoes more.

>

> Also, most of the folks I know who won't

> eat " raw " fish have no problems with Lox, which

> are, basically, raw fish!

>

> Anyway, I get frozen fish mostly so I don't

> worry too much about it.

>

> -- Heidi

>

[Guest guest]

As far as you choose healthy fish,there should be no problem.

I personally eat lots of mackerel in raw state, but i never had

parasite problem. It may depend on your choice ability.

Healthy fish depend on the sea water quality. and sea quality depends on

the flow of currency/stream. The faster the currency/stream is,the more

oxigen in there,which seems to keep fish healthier,like amimals around

here and there.

One more message to add. I heard there is nothing to slow away in

salmon,so I would insist do not throw away the skin,I mean the fats

between skin and the meat is what you may need the most,OMEGA 3 EFA !!

Fishy love,

Isao

[Guest guest]

Lox is not raw. It is cured by standing several days after being rubbed in

salt with pepper and then cold smoked in the range of 76-80 deg F. The salt

is a preservative as is the pepper. It is not cooked by what conventional

terms are, but it is a preserved product. Made many hundreds of pounds of

it over the years, one of my favorites.

Crab stuffed salmon is also excellent, make that at least twice a month.

Bruce Guilmette, PhD

Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc.

<http://survivecancer.net> Http://survivecancer.net

Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself.

Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV)

_____

From: nutrition

[mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of kefir_king

Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 11:43 AM

nutrition

Subject: Re: Wild Salmon

I just had a beautifull wild salmon stake for lunch..I steamed it

with steamed organic vegies (broclie and butternut)...great...

I dont think parasites is an issue..heidei..I think it is mainly the

Japanese who eat raw fish?

>

>

> > * *Then they are rather extreme regarding the other risks to

*us.. *I love

> > and care for all of gods creatures and don't believe in

unnecessary harm for

> > any creature, but we've got to eat something and as far as

parasites go,

> > people get more of them from eating raw vegetables (that aren't

properly

> > prepared with a vinegar or peroxide soak) than they do from

properly cooked

> > fish..

>

> I've known a lot of Asians, who eat raw fish a LOT.

> None of them seemed overly sick or suffering.

> Actually all my friends were robustly healty.

>

> Well, maybe *some* get parasites sometimes ... but

> overall, the Japanese outlive us by a decade, I think?

> So whatever parasites they are getting aren't exactly

> causing great decimation.

>

> There have been cases of Asians getting parasites,

> but when it happens, they don't seem to be

> terribly hard to get rid of. Fish parasites

> don't seem to be as much of a problem as,

> say, hookworm, which used to be endemic in

> the US before folks started wearing shoes more.

>

> Also, most of the folks I know who won't

> eat " raw " fish have no problems with Lox, which

> are, basically, raw fish!

>

> Anyway, I get frozen fish mostly so I don't

> worry too much about it.

>

> -- Heidi

>

[Guest guest]

How does cold smoking work?

Thanks

> >

> >

> > > * *Then they are rather extreme regarding the other risks to

> *us.. *I love

> > > and care for all of gods creatures and don't believe in

> unnecessary harm for

> > > any creature, but we've got to eat something and as far as

> parasites go,

> > > people get more of them from eating raw vegetables (that aren't

> properly

> > > prepared with a vinegar or peroxide soak) than they do from

> properly cooked

> > > fish..

> >

> > I've known a lot of Asians, who eat raw fish a LOT.

> > None of them seemed overly sick or suffering.

> > Actually all my friends were robustly healty.

> >

> > Well, maybe *some* get parasites sometimes ... but

> > overall, the Japanese outlive us by a decade, I think?

> > So whatever parasites they are getting aren't exactly

> > causing great decimation.

> >

> > There have been cases of Asians getting parasites,

> > but when it happens, they don't seem to be

> > terribly hard to get rid of. Fish parasites

> > don't seem to be as much of a problem as,

> > say, hookworm, which used to be endemic in

> > the US before folks started wearing shoes more.

> >

> > Also, most of the folks I know who won't

> > eat " raw " fish have no problems with Lox, which

> > are, basically, raw fish!

> >

> > Anyway, I get frozen fish mostly so I don't

> > worry too much about it.

> >

> > -- Heidi

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are subjecting the fish to smoke that is coming from a fire source at

least 10' away from the meat. Normally when smoking, you hang meat over a

pile of smoldering wood directly above the heat source. You regulate the

temperature depending upon what is being done for up to 5 days. With lox,

24 hours at very low temperatures gives fantastic results.

If you want to actually try it, I will put together a detailed description

of how to.

Regards,

Bruce Guilmette, PhD

Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc.

<http://survivecancer.net> Http://survivecancer.net

Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself.

Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV)

_____

From: nutrition

[mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of kefir_king

Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 1:13 PM

nutrition

Subject: Re: Wild Salmon

How does cold smoking work?

Thanks

> >

> >

> > > * *Then they are rather extreme regarding the other risks to

> *us.. *I love

> > > and care for all of gods creatures and don't believe in

> unnecessary harm for

> > > any creature, but we've got to eat something and as far as

> parasites go,

> > > people get more of them from eating raw vegetables (that aren't

> properly

> > > prepared with a vinegar or peroxide soak) than they do from

> properly cooked

> > > fish..

> >

> > I've known a lot of Asians, who eat raw fish a LOT.

> > None of them seemed overly sick or suffering.

> > Actually all my friends were robustly healty.

> >

> > Well, maybe *some* get parasites sometimes ... but

> > overall, the Japanese outlive us by a decade, I think?

> > So whatever parasites they are getting aren't exactly

> > causing great decimation.

> >

> > There have been cases of Asians getting parasites,

> > but when it happens, they don't seem to be

> > terribly hard to get rid of. Fish parasites

> > don't seem to be as much of a problem as,

> > say, hookworm, which used to be endemic in

> > the US before folks started wearing shoes more.

> >

> > Also, most of the folks I know who won't

> > eat " raw " fish have no problems with Lox, which

> > are, basically, raw fish!

> >

> > Anyway, I get frozen fish mostly so I don't

> > worry too much about it.

> >

> > -- Heidi

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

How about putting it in a Low Temperature dehydrator?

> > >

> > >

> > > > * *Then they are rather extreme regarding the other risks to

> > *us.. *I love

> > > > and care for all of gods creatures and don't believe in

> > unnecessary harm for

> > > > any creature, but we've got to eat something and as far as

> > parasites go,

> > > > people get more of them from eating raw vegetables (that

aren't

> > properly

> > > > prepared with a vinegar or peroxide soak) than they do from

> > properly cooked

> > > > fish..

> > >

> > > I've known a lot of Asians, who eat raw fish a LOT.

> > > None of them seemed overly sick or suffering.

> > > Actually all my friends were robustly healty.

> > >

> > > Well, maybe *some* get parasites sometimes ... but

> > > overall, the Japanese outlive us by a decade, I think?

> > > So whatever parasites they are getting aren't exactly

> > > causing great decimation.

> > >

> > > There have been cases of Asians getting parasites,

> > > but when it happens, they don't seem to be

> > > terribly hard to get rid of. Fish parasites

> > > don't seem to be as much of a problem as,

> > > say, hookworm, which used to be endemic in

> > > the US before folks started wearing shoes more.

> > >

> > > Also, most of the folks I know who won't

> > > eat " raw " fish have no problems with Lox, which

> > > are, basically, raw fish!

> > >

> > > Anyway, I get frozen fish mostly so I don't

> > > worry too much about it.

> > >

> > > -- Heidi

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Bruce wrote:

> Lox is not raw. It is cured by standing several days after being rubbed in

> salt with pepper and then cold smoked in the range of 76-80 deg F. The salt

> is a preservative as is the pepper. It is not cooked by what conventional

> terms are, but it is a preserved product. Made many hundreds of pounds of

> it over the years, one of my favorites.

I love it too! But I don't think that the amount

of salt and smoking would do anything

to kill parasites. I.e. as far as parasites are

concerned, it may as well be raw.

There is some controversy over whether salted/dried

stuff is " raw " or not. Same for ceviche. Such foods

are " changed " but not " heated " .

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

So many variables when it comes to such foods. " Salt Cured meat " , " cold

smoked salmon " , " pickled herring " ...

Ceviche is often referred to as being " cooked " by the acids from the added

lime juice.. It seems to alter the texture , making it firm like it was

cooked..but no

With all of these " raw preserved or chemically cooked " things it basically

comes down to the particular method of preservation etc. vs. the tolerance

of said parasites and/or pathogenic bacteria. Whether or not these foods are

" raw " begs a proper definition of the word.

*Raw \Raw\, a. [Compar

**Rawer*<http://www.dictionary.net/searchbox.php?st=2 & query=Rawer & PHPSESSID=bb00\

0cc50a0d963938dafe10fbddee2c>

*; superl.

**Rawest*<http://www.dictionary.net/searchbox.php?st=2 & query=Rawest & PHPSESSID=bb\

000cc50a0d963938dafe10fbddee2c>

*.]

[AS. hre['a]w; akin to D. raauw, LG. rau, G. roh, OHG. r[=o], Icel. hr[=a]r,

Dan. raa, Sw. r[*a], L. crudus, Gr. kre`as flesh, Skr. kravis raw flesh.

[root]18. Cf.

**Crude*<http://www.dictionary.net/searchbox.php?st=2 & query=Crude & PHPSESSID=bb00\

0cc50a0d963938dafe10fbddee2c>

*,

**Cruel*<http://www.dictionary.net/searchbox.php?st=2 & query=Cruel & PHPSESSID=bb00\

0cc50a0d963938dafe10fbddee2c>

*.]

1. Not altered from its natural state; not prepared by the action of heat;

as, raw sienna; specifically, not cooked; not changed by heat to a state

suitable for eating; not done; as, raw meat.*

*2. Hence: Unprepared for use or enjoyment; immature; unripe; unseasoned;

inexperienced; unpracticed; untried; as, raw soldiers; a raw recruit.*

*Approved himself to the raw judgment of the multitude. --De Quincey.*

*3. Not worked in due form; in the natural state; untouched by art;

unwrought. Specifically:

(a) Not distilled; as, raw water. [Obs.]

--Bacon.

( Not spun or twisted; as, raw silk or cotton.

© Not mixed or diluted; as, raw spirits.

(d) Not tried; not melted and strained; as, raw tallow.

(e) Not tanned; as, raw hides.

(f) Not trimmed, covered, or folded under; as, the raw edge of a piece of

metal or of cloth.*

*4. Not covered; bare. Specifically:

(a) Bald. [Obs.]

``With scull all raw.'' --Spencer

( Deprived of skin; galled; as, a raw sore.

© Sore, as if by being galled.*

*And all his sinews waxen weak and raw Through long imprisonment. --Spenser.

*

*5. Disagreeably damp or cold; chilly; as, a raw wind. ``A raw and gusty

day.'' --Shak.*

*Raw material* <http://www.dictionary.net/searchbox.php?st=2 & query=Raw

material & PHPSESSID=bb000cc50a0d963938dafe10fbddee2c>*, material that has not

been subjected to a (specified) process of manufacture; as, ore is the raw

material used in smelting; leather is the raw material of the shoe industry.

*

*Raw pig* <http://www.dictionary.net/searchbox.php?st=2 & query=Raw

pig & PHPSESSID=bb000cc50a0d963938dafe10fbddee2c>*, cast iron as it comes from

the smelting furnace.*

*Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)*

...so when speaking of food. it seems that raw is in reference to

cooking/treating with *heat *just as you said Heidi.* *Though I'm sure some

would still argue..

Fermented foods rely on some sort of initial protection, usually salt or

vinegar, the favorable organisms survive this, then multiply, usually

producing acids in the process, lowering the overall ph to an inhospitable

level for pathogens. Fermented foods are alot more complex than cured foods

in this respect, fermentation usually is oriented towards producing

desirable flavors and textures as well as preservation. Otherwise we would

just soak our kimchi in vinegar and call it done.

Anyway, the questions to ask regarding all of this would be,

How much salt can said parasite/bacillus survive, for how long?

With saltwater fish, I would figure that the native parasites would be able

to survive higher salt levels.

What acidity levels can said parasite/bacillus survive, for how long?

Hmm, cold smoked foods? Not sure how that works. How much smoke can " "

survive? " "

Cooking kills it all (right?), the one way to be sure, but then there's all

of the other not so good things that happen when things are cooked, ah crap.

It's really all beyond me at this time..but I don't think I'll worry, that's

not healthy either )

Beau

On 2/25/06, Heidi <heidis@...> wrote:

>

> I love it too! But I don't think that the amount

> of salt and smoking would do anything

> to kill parasites. I.e. as far as parasites are

> concerned, it may as well be raw.

>

> There is some controversy over whether salted/dried

> stuff is " raw " or not. Same for ceviche. Such foods

> are " changed " but not " heated " .

>

> -- Heidi

>

>

[Guest guest]

> ( Not spun or twisted; as, raw silk or cotton.

> © Not mixed or diluted; as, raw spirits.

> (d) Not tried; not melted and strained; as, raw tallow.

> (e) Not tanned; as, raw hides.

> (f) Not trimmed, covered, or folded under; as, the raw edge of a piece of

> metal or of cloth.*

> ..so when speaking of food. it seems that raw is in reference to

> cooking/treating with *heat *just as you said Heidi.* *Though I'm sure some

> would still argue..

Actually I kinda like the " not spun or twisted "

definition. I definitely do not eat twisted fish ...

> Fermented foods rely on some sort of initial protection, usually salt or

> vinegar, the favorable organisms survive this, then multiply, usually

> producing acids in the process, lowering the overall ph to an inhospitable

> level for pathogens. Fermented foods are alot more complex than cured foods

> in this respect, fermentation usually is oriented towards producing

> desirable flavors and textures as well as preservation. Otherwise we would

> just soak our kimchi in vinegar and call it done.

> Anyway, the questions to ask regarding all of this would be,

> How much salt can said parasite/bacillus survive, for how long?

> With saltwater fish, I would figure that the native parasites would be able

> to survive higher salt levels.

> What acidity levels can said parasite/bacillus survive, for how long?

I agree. I really don't think that most lox are salty

or fermented enough to kill any parasite. But the fish

parasites do die if the fish is frozen cold enough, and

I think it's the law in our state that all fish sold

for " sushi " be frozen. And all the fish I buy is frozen

anyway. My educated guess is that the salmon they

use to make lox has been frozen too? Sounds like salmon

ARE commonly infected with parasites, esp. the wild

ones. But no one seems to get sick from commercial lox.

------------

http://www.charkbait.com/article/RAPC2.htm

There are some fish that can VERY problematic when it comes to parasites. These

include fish that spend some of their time in brackish or freshwater, like

salmon. A study a few years ago out of Seattle showed that 100% of wild caught

salmon had roundworm larvae in their flesh (the type that might infect humans).

The study also showed that farm raised salmon did not have any roundworm larvae

in their flesh....something to consider the next time you order salmon at the

sushi bar.

Fortunately there may be some saving grace. Besides being killed by heat (i.e.

cooking) most parasites are killed by freezing the flesh. Another study out of

Seattle a few years ago showed that despite quite a few parasites being found in

samples from Sushi bars (again most were found in Salmon) the majority were

already dead. Freezing the raw fish prior to preparation was thought to be a

major reason the parasites were dead.

-------------

http://seafood.ucdavis.edu/Pubs/safetycon.htm

Many consumers enjoy raw or lightly marinated seafood products such as sashimi,

sushi, ceviche, gravlax, cold-smoked fish and raw shellfish. Eating raw seafood

(and raw meat, poultry or dairy products), has a greater food safey risk that

eating proplery cooked products. Follow these tips to reduce this risk:

* Use commercially frozen fish for sashimi, sushi, ceviche, gravlax, or

cold-smoked fish. Freezing seafood to -31°F for 15 hours or to -10°F for seven

days eliminates risks from parasites that may be present in the fish.

* Be certain that clams, oysters, and mussels come from certified shellfish

growing waters. Refrigerate until use.

-- Heidi