Re: OT when doctors lie to you

February 20, 2006

> Ok...I got that out of my system. Now...if anyone has some

> information and treating childhood illnesses I would appreciate it if

> you could keep in touch with me - harpazo_hope@.... What I'm

> curious on is the toxicity of fever medication. I don't ever want to

> see my daughter have a seizure again and will probably run to the

> tylenol everytime she feels warm now. One in seven children have a

> febrile seizure by age 6!

OK, at the risk of irritating everyone ...

I met a young man whose brain was fried by a high

fever ... fevers are generally good, they kill viruses,

but you have to keep an eye on them. I think they start

causing problems over 104 degrees or so.

Kids also get seizures from ear/nose infections,

which is something else to watch for. A friend of

mine had her kid do that: the mastoid sinus almost

broke, which might have led to meningitis (or some

other dastardly thing). I'm REALLY careful about

sinus/ear infections, tho since we discovered

Neti pots we haven't had sinus infections and they

never did get ear infections much.

As for vaccinations: I think for babies there

might be more issues, but with the bird flu and

some of the nastier stuff coming around, it might

be good to rethink some of this. The risks associated

with getting the flu *are* a lot greater than the

risks associated with a shot, and that stupid

flu virus kills thousands of people every year

(about 36,000 in the US, 10 times as many as

got killed on 911, and 114,000 hospitalized).

This year's shot gave pretty close to 100% protection

for younger folks, so the doctor wasn't lying,

she was being accurate. Assuming what your kid

had was the flu (which can be determined with

a nose swab), then you would not have gone

through that if she had gotten the shot. Granted,

kids can handle the flu pretty well, usually,

and she survived, but still, the doctor was

in fact accurate.

Anyway, I've seen enough kids get damaged from

NOT getting the shots that I probably have a

different attitude than many here. (of course,

I ALSO don't happen to agree that the shots cause

autism, though they may aggravate it or be involved

in the symptomology somehow). There are risks to

everything, and shots are not risk-free, but

given the choice between getting influenza or

getting a shot, I'll take the shot any day.

Obviously you have to make your own decision

for your family.

There are concerns about mercury in vaccines,

and my hospital was offering non-mercury

shots to those who asked, I think. Personally

I think a lot of the shot reactions that

have been reported are because of the egg-base

in the shots ... eggs are allergenic. The vaccine

people know that, and are really trying to come

up with a better technology. A promising one

on the horizon uses particles of gold with

bits of virus-protein on them, no eggs involved.

The anti-vaccination bit is hurting a lot

of kids right now with polio too, in other

countries, because of rumors about the

vaccine. There will be, as a result, many

crippled kids in those countries because

they are afraid of a sugar cube.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LVZ/is_5_19/ai_114002780

It's worth doing some research and getting

familiar with how viruses work. It's not

really true that all illness is " detoxing " .

Smallpox wiped out about 90% of the Native

American population, and they were by all

accounts a healthy bunch. Viruses are little

protein robots that take over your DNA, turning

your cells into virus-makng machines. In the

process, they alter the DNA, which happens

to trigger other conditions (and possibly

setting you up for cancer later).

Viruses are thought to be just about THE

major cause of permanent DNA modifications. Which is

why they are used by the GMO people to genetically

modify plants. That's how they do it: they infect

the plant with a virus that alters the DNA in

a specific way. They do it with animals too,

using a cold virus. ALL viruses alter your DNA

though, mostly in a temporary way (thankfully!).

But think about it: every time you get sick

with a virus, YOU are becoming a GMO! You

aren't detoxing, you are just a handy organism

to help the virus spread itself.

You can avoid a lot of the viruses (colds esp)

by using a Neti pot or saline wash, which

gets rid of the ICAM1 that the virus uses

to " dock " in the nose (where the colds

replicate, and RSV, I don't know about flu).

-- Heidi

February 20, 2006

Jasmine,

I salute your stand to not vaccinate you child.

I cannot contribute any suggestions to reducing a fever.

However, in reading the list of natural antibiotics you're already

aware of, I'm surprised you didn't mention the one that stands

supreme and should be at the very top of your, or anyone's list:

Colloidal Silver!

This all natural, non-toxic, wide-spectrum, no side effect

antibiotic is unsurpassed in killing single cell, pathogenic

bacteria, viruses, and fungus:

http://www.toolsforhealing.com/CD/Articles/B/Brigham-

YoungUniversityRe.html

http://colloidalgold-silver-copper.com/_wsn/page3.html

You don't even have to buy Colloidal Silver - it can easily be made

at your kitchen table using distilled water, .9999% pure silver wire

(or Canadian Maple Leaf coins), and 9v batteries. Here are some

testimonials of the wide ranging uses people have applied Colloidal

Silver to:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & q=colloidal+silver+%

2B+testimonials & spell=1

Since it can be made by the gallons for pennies, next time perhaps a

luke warm bath made of/with Colloidal Silver?

My apologies if you are already aware of this knowledge.

I must say again, I admire and support your decision to not

vaccinate because

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/VaccineResearcher.html

exyogi

>

> I'm posting this here because many of you are so knowledgable

when it

> comes to health issues.

>

> I just took my daughter in to the ER this morning after having the

> paramedics, firefighters, and police at my neighbors. She had a

> febrile seizure (caused by spike in fever). I don't even want to

> remember it. But when I got there the doctor was so incredibly rude

> I'm still angry about it. Everything was fine until she found out I

> chose not to vaccinate. I do not want this to be a debate or even

> discussion about vaccinating. I know how touchy that subject is

and we

> all know we love our kids! But this horrible woman lied to me flat

out

> 2 times in a row to try and scare me into vaccinating. First she

told

> me that it was because I did not vaccinate my daughter that she had

> the seizure. I called her on it and she took it back. How stupid

does

> she think I am? Then she told me schools in Utah won't allow her to

> attend which is not true at all and I suspect she knows it. How can

> they do this? Do they think this will make me trust their advice

more?

> This has not been the first time I've been lied to by doctors

about my

> children's health. How dare they!!!

>

> Ok...I got that out of my system. Now...if anyone has some

> information and treating childhood illnesses I would appreciate it

if

> you could keep in touch with me - harpazo_hope@... What I'm

> curious on is the toxicity of fever medication. I don't ever want

to

> see my daughter have a seizure again and will probably run to the

> tylenol everytime she feels warm now. One in seven children have a

> febrile seizure by age 6! But I am concerned about more serious

> illnesses. I don't want to pump her full of toxins if it is true

that

> the disease is nature's way of detoxing. I've learned about yarrow

> bath's and garlic, echinacea, and what not as natural antibiotics

but

> what I'm concerned about is reducing fever. A lukewarm bath would

do

> it but any drastic change in temp. up or down can cause seizure. I

> don't think I could watch that again. Any thoughts, advice?

>

> Jasmin

>

February 20, 2006

For some reason my first link referenced did not take:

http://www.toolsforhealing.com/CD/Articles/B/Brigham-

YoungUniversityRe.html

-- In nutrition , " exyogi " <k2ben2@...>

wrote:

>

> Jasmine,

>

> I salute your stand to not vaccinate you child.

>

> I cannot contribute any suggestions to reducing a fever.

>

> However, in reading the list of natural antibiotics you're already

> aware of, I'm surprised you didn't mention the one that stands

> supreme and should be at the very top of your, or anyone's list:

> Colloidal Silver!

>

> This all natural, non-toxic, wide-spectrum, no side effect

> antibiotic is unsurpassed in killing single cell, pathogenic

> bacteria, viruses, and fungus:

>

> http://www.toolsforhealing.com/CD/Articles/B/Brigham-

> YoungUniversityRe.html

>

> http://colloidalgold-silver-copper.com/_wsn/page3.html

>

> You don't even have to buy Colloidal Silver - it can easily be

made

> at your kitchen table using distilled water, .9999% pure silver

wire

> (or Canadian Maple Leaf coins), and 9v batteries. Here are some

> testimonials of the wide ranging uses people have applied

Colloidal

> Silver to:

>

> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & q=colloidal+silver+%

> 2B+testimonials & spell=1

>

> Since it can be made by the gallons for pennies, next time perhaps

a

> luke warm bath made of/with Colloidal Silver?

>

> My apologies if you are already aware of this knowledge.

>

> I must say again, I admire and support your decision to not

> vaccinate because

> http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/VaccineResearcher.html

>

> exyogi

>

> --- In nutrition , " Jasmin "

February 20, 2006

You may also want to look into Kefir.

Kefir_making/

Kefir is not a drug, it is a food, a probiotic food.

Kefir is a delicious fermented milk beverage that you can easily make at home.

More healthful than yogurt, kefir builds immunity and imparts a sense of well

being.

All kinds of milk can be kefired -- even nondairy 'milks'. This includes milk

from any animal (goat, cow, sheep, etc), bean (soy, pinto kidney, garbanzo,

....), grain (rice, barley, ...), nut (almond, brazil, coconut, ...), or seed

(flax, pumpkin, sesame, ...). The most popular are milk from cow, goat, and soy.

Kefir is a natural probiotic. It contains live active cultures of normal flora

that will actually repopulate your digestive tract and aid in digestion. Kefir

is superior to yogurt because yogurt is made with transient, less potent

bacteria. The bacteria in yogurt will last a few days in the digestive tract,

and you need to keep reintroducing them. Kefir contains more organisms than

yogurt, and the " normal flora " in kefir is made of vary strong strains of micro

organisms (unlike yogurt) which will help to over take pathogenic organisms that

have taken over. Kefir will repopulate the digestive tract with good organisms.

We consider this the more natural way to add good bacteria to the digestive

tract and feel these strains are superior to any capsules which might contain

organisms that have been dried. The cultures on Kefir are active and growing

when they enter your body. They thrive in dairy and use up the lactose and

partially digest the proteins, making it a product that most people can ingest

and will benefit from. Even people with milk sensitivities can usually drink

kefir.

http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/mall/kefir_culture.ASP

MICROFLORA IN KEFIR

http://www.kefir.com.au/9A_microflora.html#1

HTH

CherylC

February 20, 2006

My apologies everyone, I can't seem to get this link to operate so

I'm copying the entire web paage:

Brigham-Young University Report on Colloidal Silver

by Microbiology Department, Brigham Young University

Friday, July 07, 2000

related articles

Colloidal Silver - Science Digest Article

Colloidal Silver Info

Questions and Answers about Colloidal Silver

More Questions and Answers about Colloidal Silver

How to Use Colloidal Silver — A Few Unique & Traditional Uses

A Closer Look at Colloidal Silver

Winged Shuttle to Ferry between Earth and Space

BACTERIA TESTING

Microbiology Department

Brigham Young University

775 WIDB

P.O. Box 25253

Provo, Utah 84602-5253

May 13, 1999

American Silver's Antibacterial Product (ASAP Solution) Testing

Results Summary

The following results suggest that American Silver's ASAP solution

is a broad spectrum antimicrobial agent–it is able to effectively

stop the growth of, and in fact kill, a variety of bacteria.

American Silver's ASAP Silver Supplement has been tested against the

following organisms.

Staphylococcus aureus (Pneumonia, eye infections, skin infections

(boils, impetigo, cellulitis, and post-operative wound infections),

toxic shock syndrome, meningitis, food poisoning, osteomyelitis, and

many others) inhibited @ 2.5 ppm and killed @ 5 ppm. 1/22/99 BYU

Report:

Shigella boydii (Bacillary dysentery–characterized by severe

cramping abdominal pain and bloody diarrhea) inhibited @ 1.25 ppm

and killed @ 2.5 ppm. 1/22/99 BYU Report.

Salmonella arizona (Food poisoning, etc.) inhibited @ 2.5 ppm and

killed @ 5 ppm. 1/28/99 BYU Report.

Salmonella typhimurium (Food poisoning and enteric fever) inhibited

and killed at a concentration of 2.5 ppm. 6/7/99 BYU Report.

E. coli (Food poisoning, urinary tract infections, traveler's

diarrhea, diarrhea in infants, respiratory tract infections, and

wound infections) inhibited and killed @ 2.5 ppm. 1/22/99 BYU Report.

Haemophilus influenzae (Otitis media (ear infection), pneumonia,

meningitis, throat and sinus infections (including epiglottitis in

children and sinusitis), and suppurative arthritis in children)

inhibited and killed @ 1.25 ppm. 1/22/99 BYU Report.

Enterobacter aerogenes ( wound infections, urinary tract infections,

bacteremia, and meningitis) inhibited and killed at a concentration

of 2.5 ppm. 6/7/99 BYU Report.

Enterobacter cloacae ( causes ilnesses similar to the E. aerogenes)

inhibited and killed at a concentration of 5 ppm. 6/7/99 BYU Report.

Klebsiella pneumoniae (lower respiratory tract infections,

nosocomial infections (infections spread in hospitals), urinary

tract and wound infections, and bacteremia) inhibited and killed @

2.5 ppm. 1/28/99 BYU Report.

Klebsiella oxytoca (Similar to those infections caused by K.

pneumoniae) inhibited and killed at a concentration of 2.5 ppm.

6/7/99

BYU Report.

Pseudomonas aeruginosa (severe burn and wound infections, keratitis,

pneumonia, meningitis, nosocomial infections, urinary tract

infections, etc.) inhibited @ 2.5 ppm and killed @ 5 ppm. 1/22/99

BYU Report.

Streptococcus pneumoniae (pneumonia, meningitis, sinusitis, otitis

media (ear infection) inhibited @ 2.5 ppm and killed @ 5 ppm.

4/21/99 BYU Report.

Streptococcus pyogenes (skin infections, upper respiratory

infections (i.e. strep throat) impetigo, hospital-acquired

infections, scarlet fever, etc.) inhibited and killed @ 1.25 ppm.

1/22/99 BYU Report.

Streptococcus faecalis (Urinary tract infections, endocarditis,

wound infections, etc.) inhibited @ 2.5 ppm and killed @ 5 ppm.

1/22/99 BYU Report.\

Streptococcus mutans (A major cause dental plaque and tooth decay

etc.) inhibited and killed @ 5 ppm. 2/3/99 BYU Report.

Streptococcus gordonii (Tooth decay, also implicated in infective

endocarditis-an infection of the heart valves) inhibited and killed

@ 5 ppm. BYU Report 2/12/99.\

A. Revelli

Microbiologist

Brigham Young University

Dr. Ron W. Leavitt, Ph.D.

Professor of Microbiology/Molecular Biology

Brigham Young University

http://www.csprosystems.com/BYU_Bacteria_Testing.html

email this article to a friend

> >

> > Jasmine,

> >

> > I salute your stand to not vaccinate you child.

> >

> > I cannot contribute any suggestions to reducing a fever.

> >

> > However, in reading the list of natural antibiotics you're

already

> > aware of, I'm surprised you didn't mention the one that stands

> > supreme and should be at the very top of your, or anyone's

list:

> > Colloidal Silver!

> >

> > This all natural, non-toxic, wide-spectrum, no side effect

> > antibiotic is unsurpassed in killing single cell, pathogenic

> > bacteria, viruses, and fungus:

> >

> > http://www.toolsforhealing.com/CD/Articles/B/Brigham-

> > YoungUniversityRe.html

> >

> > http://colloidalgold-silver-copper.com/_wsn/page3.html

> >

> > You don't even have to buy Colloidal Silver - it can easily be

> made

> > at your kitchen table using distilled water, .9999% pure silver

> wire

> > (or Canadian Maple Leaf coins), and 9v batteries. Here are some

> > testimonials of the wide ranging uses people have applied

> Colloidal

> > Silver to:

> >

> > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & q=colloidal+silver+%

> > 2B+testimonials & spell=1

> >

> > Since it can be made by the gallons for pennies, next time

perhaps

> a

> > luke warm bath made of/with Colloidal Silver?

> >

> > My apologies if you are already aware of this knowledge.

> >

> > I must say again, I admire and support your decision to not

> > vaccinate because

> > http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/VaccineResearcher.html

> >

> > exyogi

> >

> > --- In nutrition , " Jasmin "

>

February 20, 2006

er, this is so embarrassing......my testimonials link is not the

correct

one. Google " colloidal silver + testimonials " and that will get you

where I wanted you to go.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & q=colloidal+silver+%

2B+testimonials & btnG=Google+Search

> > >

> > > Jasmine,

> > >

> > > I salute your stand to not vaccinate you child.

> > >

> > > I cannot contribute any suggestions to reducing a fever.

> > >

> > > However, in reading the list of natural antibiotics you're

> already

> > > aware of, I'm surprised you didn't mention the one that stands

> > > supreme and should be at the very top of your, or anyone's

> list:

> > > Colloidal Silver!

> > >

> > > This all natural, non-toxic, wide-spectrum, no side effect

> > > antibiotic is unsurpassed in killing single cell, pathogenic

> > > bacteria, viruses, and fungus:

> > >

> > > http://www.toolsforhealing.com/CD/Articles/B/Brigham-

> > > YoungUniversityRe.html

> > >

> > > http://colloidalgold-silver-copper.com/_wsn/page3.html

> > >

> > > You don't even have to buy Colloidal Silver - it can easily be

> > made

> > > at your kitchen table using distilled water, .9999% pure

silver

> > wire

> > > (or Canadian Maple Leaf coins), and 9v batteries. Here are

some

> > > testimonials of the wide ranging uses people have applied

> > Colloidal

> > > Silver to:

> > >

> > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & q=colloidal+silver+%

> > > 2B+testimonials & spell=1

> > >

> > > Since it can be made by the gallons for pennies, next time

> perhaps

> > a

> > > luke warm bath made of/with Colloidal Silver?

> > >

> > > My apologies if you are already aware of this knowledge.

> > >

> > > I must say again, I admire and support your decision to not

> > > vaccinate because

> > > http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/VaccineResearcher.html

> > >

> > > exyogi

> > >

> > > --- In nutrition , " Jasmin "

> >

>

February 20, 2006

Hello Jasmin,

The most effective means that I've found to reduce fever in toddlers

[and adults alike, including most animal species], is to administer Cod

Liver Oil [CLO] in an adequate dose, and over an appropriate period

[duration].

With this said, I do not wish to begin a debate about Vit A and D

toxicity here, but I do express to take caution in regards to long term

use of these two vitamins, which natural CLO is rich in. Be it that

current toxicity figures are results based on synthetic Vits A and D,

however, it is being proven that the natural form of Vits A and D have

far less toxicity than synthetic counterparts.

Our now 15 month daughter contracted a fever due to an upper chest

infection when she was about one month old. 1 tsp of CLO, was fed with a

syringe directly into her mouth, reduced her fever from 39C to 37C

within one hour. I administered the dose every 6 hours for 2 days, that

is, when I was certain her body temp was stable [it's better to go a day

longer with the treatment than treating for too short a period, in order

to prevent relapse]. Each CLO dose was followed with a small amount of

kefir, which was prepared with her mother's breast milk at the time [for

she was solely on breast milk].

She is not immunized in any conventional manner as such, and this has

been the only insidence of inection.

She enjoys CLO straight from the spoon now, and she gets about 1 tsp

every other day, with a few weeks break here and there.

I have good experience with this Vitamin treatment and have had for over

20 years. I began experimenting with it, in myself at the beginning, in

order to establish effect, effectiveness, dosage and duration etc. We

always keep a bottle of CLO at hand, and I've treated many animals with

infections successfully also, over the years.

In a nut shell, there is an important threshhold to reach regarding

dosage, in order for the two Vits {A and D] to do their work

effectively. If the threashold [a large enough doseage] is not reached

and maintained for the appropriate period, then it's a waste of time.

As an end note, if there's no sign of responce [body temperature drop]

within 1 to 2 hours maximun, then the next dose may need to be doubled,

and maintained over the days, given every 4 hours in some cases mostly

dependant of responce [guaged by checking for body temp decrease].

Be-well,

Dom

Jasmin wrote:

> I'm posting this here because many of you are so knowledgable when it

> comes to health issues.

>

> I just took my daughter in to the ER this morning after having the

> paramedics, firefighters, and police at my neighbors. She had a

> febrile seizure (caused by spike in fever). I don't even want to

> remember it. But when I got there the doctor was so incredibly rude

> I'm still angry about it. Everything was fine until she found out I

> chose not to vaccinate. I do not want this to be a debate or even

> discussion about vaccinating. I know how touchy that subject is and we

> all know we love our kids! But this horrible woman lied to me flat out

> 2 times in a row to try and scare me into vaccinating. First she told

> me that it was because I did not vaccinate my daughter that she had

> the seizure. I called her on it and she took it back. How stupid does

> she think I am? Then she told me schools in Utah won't allow her to

> attend which is not true at all and I suspect she knows it. How can

> they do this? Do they think this will make me trust their advice more?

> This has not been the first time I've been lied to by doctors about my

> children's health. How dare they!!!

>

> Ok...I got that out of my system. Now...if anyone has some

> information and treating childhood illnesses I would appreciate it if

> you could keep in touch with me - harpazo_hope@.... What I'm

> curious on is the toxicity of fever medication. I don't ever want to

> see my daughter have a seizure again and will probably run to the

> tylenol everytime she feels warm now. One in seven children have a

> febrile seizure by age 6! But I am concerned about more serious

> illnesses. I don't want to pump her full of toxins if it is true that

> the disease is nature's way of detoxing. I've learned about yarrow

> bath's and garlic, echinacea, and what not as natural antibiotics but

> what I'm concerned about is reducing fever. A lukewarm bath would do

> it but any drastic change in temp. up or down can cause seizure. I

> don't think I could watch that again. Any thoughts, advice?

>

> Jasmin

February 20, 2006

exyogi - Thanks for all the trouble! I've heard about colloidal silver but

don't like the risks of argyria. From what I've read it doesn't matter what kind

of colloidal silver you use...it is always a risk.

Heidi- Thanks for the explanation on viruses. I always doubted that illness is

always just detoxing. But I still feel uncomfortable giving my baby medicine

when their bodies are working so hard to heal.

By the way, she has the beginnings of an ear infection...no infection but fluid

building up. She also may be teething which has caused my boys to run a fever

every time. She really is not very sick...just a little stuffy nose. Would the

n??? pot work with a two year old? I suspect not. How about saline drops? That

is a horrible thing to force a kid to do though...

Cheryl - It's funny you mention the kefir. I killed my grains. I attribute that

and a lousy diet for her sickness.

I have found some good info on mercola.com on febrile seizures and fevers in

general. So if you're interested...

Jasmin

---------------------------------

Brings words and photos together (easily) with

PhotoMail - it's free and works with .

February 20, 2006

> By the way, she has the beginnings of an ear infection...no infection

> but fluid building up. She also may be teething which has caused my boys

> to run a fever every time. She really is not very sick...just a little

> stuffy nose. Would the n??? pot work with a two year old? I suspect not.

> How about saline drops? That is a horrible thing to force a kid to do

> though...

Some folks use various substances for ear drops: I hesitate

to quote them because I don't recall! But they are said

to work. In any case, do *something* because untreated,

they can cause permanent damage (some kids do kick them,

others don't: CLO might help in that?).

My guess is that some of the ear infections have

to do with either bottle feeding while the kid is

lying down, or allergies. People with IgA allergies,

the ear really does get more wax in it (along with

more mucous in general).

Nasal flushes *might* help ... they work

for a lot of things. Mine have a little Pascalite in

them, which vastly improves their effectiveness.

For a kid, a Neti pot doesn't work well, but

a bulb syringe plus some bribery can.

Just test the saline on yourself first: if you

get the wrong amount of salt, it stings, and

then the kid will never trust you!

-- Heidi

March 10, 2006

>

> > Ok...I got that out of my system. Now...if anyone has some

> > information and treating childhood illnesses I would appreciate

it if

> > you could keep in touch with me - harpazo_hope@... What I'm

> > curious on is the toxicity of fever medication. I don't ever want

to

> > see my daughter have a seizure again and will probably run to the

> > tylenol everytime she feels warm now. One in seven children have a

> > febrile seizure by age 6!

>

> OK, at the risk of irritating everyone ...

>

> I met a young man whose brain was fried by a high

> fever ... I've heard a woman whose brain was fried, and her name is

Heidi. You have got everything beebackwards. Since you've irritated

people, I think you can be irritated back.

> As for vaccinations: I think for babies there

> might be more issues, but with the bird flu and

> some of the nastier stuff coming around,

Is the flu really going around, or is that what you were told?

Really. In five years I saw the flu go from something you dealt with

like the weather or traffic to killer - in our media. I saw the

propaganda give people instant amnesia about the previously touted

statistics. But I never saw our flu cases get any worse than they

always were.

> and that stupid

> flu virus kills thousands of people every year

> (about 36,000

It does not kill 36,000 a year. The CDC itself will tell you that.

> This year's shot gave pretty close to 100% protection

> for younger folks

Shots don't give any protection to anybody.

> Anyway, I've seen enough kids get damaged from

> NOT getting the shots

You've ATTIRBUTED everything under the sun to notgetting the shots.

(of course, I ALSO don't happen to agree that the shots cause

> autism,

You can't just choose not to agree with facts.

> given the choice between getting influenza or

> getting a shot, I'll take the shot any day.

If it's the choice between society ostracizing you and the shot, by

golly you're gonna get the shot.

> There are concerns about mercury in vaccines,

> and my hospital was offering non-mercury

> shots to those who asked,

what is a HOSPITAL doing giving out mercury in the first place?

Making people sick.

>I think.

Oh, now you don't even know. Well, is it or isn't it?

Really, if someone has to teach you that mercury is bad for you, then

you are really far gone.

>Personally

It's obvious that it's your opinion. There is no need to say it,

unless you want to back out of trouble later.

> I think a lot of the shot reactions that

> have been reported are because of the egg-base

> in the shots ... eggs are allergenic.

Eggs cause allergies because bodies recognize the protein that came

in the invasion (injection).

The vaccine> people know that, and are really trying to come

> up with a better technology.

In the meantime, we hafta put up with what they've got?

>

> The anti-vaccination bit is hurting a lot

> of kids right now

Here is a statement of course you will back out of. It's dangerous.

Folks like Jasmine lose custody of their kids because of it.

>with polio too,

Polio ONLY comes from vaccines.

>in other

> countries, because of rumors

Rumors from a radio talker, who got them FROM A PAMPHLET OUR GOOD

GOVERNMENT PUT OUT TO INFORM FOLKS OF THE FACTS. That same

government whose agents said their own pamphlets weren't true. And

said the voices answering the number labeled " CDC hotline " weren't

their own agents.

>about the

> vaccine. There will be, as a result, many

> crippled kids in those countries

when there aren't any, you'll rationalize it away.

>because> they are afraid of a sugar cube.

With something too bad for the US in it.

> Smallpox wiped out about 90% of the Native

> American population,

The smallpox vaccine was discontinued because all it did was make

people sick!

>Viruses are little

> protein robots* that take over your DNA, turning

> your cells into virus-makng machines. In the

> process, they alter the DNA,

No, viruses are bits of DNA your own cells have shed. This is as

normal as the sun rising every day. Under stress, which fat monkeys

(humans) increase by giving themselves poison injections, cells shed

DNA and grab some good strands. It's a healing mechanism. It's as

natural as the sunrise and almost as ancient. It predates

multicellular organisms. It predates _nucleated_cell_organisms. It

is, literally, older than dirt. And your cells still know how to do

it.

> Viruses are thought to be just about THE

> major cause of permanent DNA modifications.

Vaccines are.

Blaming germs for disease is like blaming vultures for the slaughter

of the deer herd. Blaming viruses is even worse. Blaming viruses

for disease is like blaming the SLAUGHTER OF THE DEER herd on the

BITS OF DEER CARCASS left lying around.

>You

> aren't detoxing, you are just a handy organism

> to help the virus spread itself.

You always were an environment for germs. So make friends with the

right ones.

>

> by using a Neti pot or saline wash, which

> gets rid of the ICAM1 that the virus uses

> to " dock " in the nose

This is just as if humans are a race of Martians. They came down to

Earth -- and they've been washing themselves ever since! Their poor

lives are one long continuous washing ritual, trying to live on Earth

without becoming a part of it!

*p.s. like data?

>

March 10, 2006

My goodness, but I've never seen more nonsense written in one place in my life.

If you wish to live in the dark ages before germ theory and ignore a few

hundrerd years of scientific knowledge, have at it, but don't embarass youself

so much by sharing such tripe.

Please give citations from accepted scientific sources (peer reviewed science

and medical journals, current microbiology texts, government publications,

etc), for just a few of your nonsensical contentions, such as:

" viruses are bits of DNA your own cells have shed " (Please explain all the

foreign DNA in them. Please explain RNA viruses. Please explain bacteriophages.)

Germs don't cause disease (let me give you a nice big dose of E.coli O157:H7 and

see what you have to say)

" The smallpox vaccine was discontinued because all it did was make people sick! "

(Ignoring the small fact that it eradicated smallpox! LOL!! Check with the WHO.)

" It does not kill 36,000 a year. The CDC itself will tell you that. " (Here,

I'll help you with this one " In one study of influenza epidemics, approximately

19,000 influenza-associated pulmonary and circulatory deaths per influenza

season occurred during 1976–1990, compared with approximately 36,000 deaths

during 1990--1999. " http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/diagnosis/)

BTW, I don't know who you are but I know who Heidi is and I respect her views

and ability to research an issue. You, on the other hand, seem fairly hostile

and with a big axe to grind.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " thiscanthappen " <writetruth@...>

>

> > Ok...I got that out of my system. Now...if anyone has some

> > information and treating childhood illnesses I would appreciate

it if

> > you could keep in touch with me - harpazo_hope@... What I'm

> > curious on is the toxicity of fever medication. I don't ever want

to

> > see my daughter have a seizure again and will probably run to the

> > tylenol everytime she feels warm now. One in seven children have a

> > febrile seizure by age 6!

>

> OK, at the risk of irritating everyone ...

>

> I met a young man whose brain was fried by a high

> fever ... I've heard a woman whose brain was fried, and her name is

Heidi. You have got everything beebackwards. Since you've irritated

people, I think you can be irritated back.

> As for vaccinations: I think for babies there

> might be more issues, but with the bird flu and

> some of the nastier stuff coming around,

Is the flu really going around, or is that what you were told?

Really. In five years I saw the flu go from something you dealt with

like the weather or traffic to killer - in our media. I saw the

propaganda give people instant amnesia about the previously touted

statistics. But I never saw our flu cases get any worse than they

always were.

> and that stupid

> flu virus kills thousands of people every year

> (about 36,000

It does not kill 36,000 a year. The CDC itself will tell you that.

> This year's shot gave pretty close to 100% protection

> for younger folks

Shots don't give any protection to anybody.

> Anyway, I've seen enough kids get damaged from

> NOT getting the shots

You've ATTIRBUTED everything under the sun to notgetting the shots.

(of course, I ALSO don't happen to agree that the shots cause

> autism,

You can't just choose not to agree with facts.

> given the choice between getting influenza or

> getting a shot, I'll take the shot any day.

If it's the choice between society ostracizing you and the shot, by

golly you're gonna get the shot.

> There are concerns about mercury in vaccines,

> and my hospital was offering non-mercury

> shots to those who asked,

what is a HOSPITAL doing giving out mercury in the first place?

Making people sick.

>I think.

Oh, now you don't even know. Well, is it or isn't it?

Really, if someone has to teach you that mercury is bad for you, then

you are really far gone.

>Personally

It's obvious that it's your opinion. There is no need to say it,

unless you want to back out of trouble later.

> I think a lot of the shot reactions that

> have been reported are because of the egg-base

> in the shots ... eggs are allergenic.

Eggs cause allergies because bodies recognize the protein that came

in the invasion (injection).

The vaccine> people know that, and are really trying to come

> up with a better technology.

In the meantime, we hafta put up with what they've got?

>

> The anti-vaccination bit is hurting a lot

> of kids right now

Here is a statement of course you will back out of. It's dangerous.

Folks like Jasmine lose custody of their kids because of it.

>with polio too,

Polio ONLY comes from vaccines.

>in other

> countries, because of rumors

Rumors from a radio talker, who got them FROM A PAMPHLET OUR GOOD

GOVERNMENT PUT OUT TO INFORM FOLKS OF THE FACTS. That same

government whose agents said their own pamphlets weren't true. And

said the voices answering the number labeled " CDC hotline " weren't

their own agents.

>about the

> vaccine. There will be, as a result, many

> crippled kids in those countries

when there aren't any, you'll rationalize it away.

>because> they are afraid of a sugar cube.

With something too bad for the US in it.

> Smallpox wiped out about 90% of the Native

> American population,

The smallpox vaccine was discontinued because all it did was make

people sick!

>Viruses are little

> protein robots* that take over your DNA, turning

> your cells into virus-makng machines. In the

> process, they alter the DNA,

No, viruses are bits of DNA your own cells have shed. This is as

normal as the sun rising every day. Under stress, which fat monkeys

(humans) increase by giving themselves poison injections, cells shed

DNA and grab some good strands. It's a healing mechanism. It's as

natural as the sunrise and almost as ancient. It predates

multicellular organisms. It predates _nucleated_cell_organisms. It

is, literally, older than dirt. And your cells still know how to do

it.

> Viruses are thought to be just about THE

> major cause of permanent DNA modifications.

Vaccines are.

Blaming germs for disease is like blaming vultures for the slaughter

of the deer herd. Blaming viruses is even worse. Blaming viruses

for disease is like blaming the SLAUGHTER OF THE DEER herd on the

BITS OF DEER CARCASS left lying around.

>You

> aren't detoxing, you are just a handy organism

> to help the virus spread itself.

You always were an environment for germs. So make friends with the

right ones.

>

> by using a Neti pot or saline wash, which

> gets rid of the ICAM1 that the virus uses

> to " dock " in the nose

This is just as if humans are a race of Martians. They came down to

Earth -- and they've been washing themselves ever since! Their poor

lives are one long continuous washing ritual, trying to live on Earth

without becoming a part of it!

*p.s. like data?

>

March 10, 2006

Thiscanthappen

Do you eat sourdough bread?

Connie

Re: OT when doctors lie to you

>

> > Ok...I got that out of my system. Now...if anyone has some

> > information and treating childhood illnesses I would appreciate

it if

> > you could keep in touch with me - harpazo_hope@... What I'm

> > curious on is the toxicity of fever medication. I don't ever want

to

> > see my daughter have a seizure again and will probably run to the

> > tylenol everytime she feels warm now. One in seven children have a

> > febrile seizure by age 6!

>

> OK, at the risk of irritating everyone ...

>

> I met a young man whose brain was fried by a high

> fever ... I've heard a woman whose brain was fried, and her name is

Heidi. You have got everything beebackwards. Since you've irritated

people, I think you can be irritated back.

> As for vaccinations: I think for babies there

> might be more issues, but with the bird flu and

> some of the nastier stuff coming around,

Is the flu really going around, or is that what you were told?

Really. In five years I saw the flu go from something you dealt with

like the weather or traffic to killer - in our media. I saw the

propaganda give people instant amnesia about the previously touted

statistics. But I never saw our flu cases get any worse than they

always were.

> and that stupid

> flu virus kills thousands of people every year

> (about 36,000

It does not kill 36,000 a year. The CDC itself will tell you that.

> This year's shot gave pretty close to 100% protection

> for younger folks

Shots don't give any protection to anybody.

> Anyway, I've seen enough kids get damaged from

> NOT getting the shots

You've ATTIRBUTED everything under the sun to notgetting the shots.

(of course, I ALSO don't happen to agree that the shots cause

> autism,

You can't just choose not to agree with facts.

> given the choice between getting influenza or

> getting a shot, I'll take the shot any day.

If it's the choice between society ostracizing you and the shot, by

golly you're gonna get the shot.

> There are concerns about mercury in vaccines,

> and my hospital was offering non-mercury

> shots to those who asked,

what is a HOSPITAL doing giving out mercury in the first place?

Making people sick.

>I think.

Oh, now you don't even know. Well, is it or isn't it?

Really, if someone has to teach you that mercury is bad for you, then

you are really far gone.

>Personally

It's obvious that it's your opinion. There is no need to say it,

unless you want to back out of trouble later.

> I think a lot of the shot reactions that

> have been reported are because of the egg-base

> in the shots ... eggs are allergenic.

Eggs cause allergies because bodies recognize the protein that came

in the invasion (injection).

The vaccine> people know that, and are really trying to come

> up with a better technology.

In the meantime, we hafta put up with what they've got?

>

> The anti-vaccination bit is hurting a lot

> of kids right now

Here is a statement of course you will back out of. It's dangerous.

Folks like Jasmine lose custody of their kids because of it.

>with polio too,

Polio ONLY comes from vaccines.

>in other

> countries, because of rumors

Rumors from a radio talker, who got them FROM A PAMPHLET OUR GOOD

GOVERNMENT PUT OUT TO INFORM FOLKS OF THE FACTS. That same

government whose agents said their own pamphlets weren't true. And

said the voices answering the number labeled " CDC hotline " weren't

their own agents.

>about the

> vaccine. There will be, as a result, many

> crippled kids in those countries

when there aren't any, you'll rationalize it away.

>because> they are afraid of a sugar cube.

With something too bad for the US in it.

> Smallpox wiped out about 90% of the Native

> American population,

The smallpox vaccine was discontinued because all it did was make

people sick!

>Viruses are little

> protein robots* that take over your DNA, turning

> your cells into virus-makng machines. In the

> process, they alter the DNA,

No, viruses are bits of DNA your own cells have shed. This is as

normal as the sun rising every day. Under stress, which fat monkeys

(humans) increase by giving themselves poison injections, cells shed

DNA and grab some good strands. It's a healing mechanism. It's as

natural as the sunrise and almost as ancient. It predates

multicellular organisms. It predates _nucleated_cell_organisms. It

is, literally, older than dirt. And your cells still know how to do

it.

> Viruses are thought to be just about THE

> major cause of permanent DNA modifications.

Vaccines are.

Blaming germs for disease is like blaming vultures for the slaughter

of the deer herd. Blaming viruses is even worse. Blaming viruses

for disease is like blaming the SLAUGHTER OF THE DEER herd on the

BITS OF DEER CARCASS left lying around.

>You

> aren't detoxing, you are just a handy organism

> to help the virus spread itself.

You always were an environment for germs. So make friends with the

right ones.

>

> by using a Neti pot or saline wash, which

> gets rid of the ICAM1 that the virus uses

> to " dock " in the nose

This is just as if humans are a race of Martians. They came down to

Earth -- and they've been washing themselves ever since! Their poor

lives are one long continuous washing ritual, trying to live on Earth

without becoming a part of it!

*p.s. like data?

>

March 10, 2006

On 3/10/06, thiscanthappen <writetruth@...> wrote:

>

> > As for vaccinations: I think for babies there

> > might be more issues, but with the bird flu and

> > some of the nastier stuff coming around,

>

> Is the flu really going around, or is that what you were told?

> Really. In five years I saw the flu go from something you dealt with

> like the weather or traffic to killer - in our media. I saw the

> propaganda give people instant amnesia about the previously touted

> statistics. But I never saw our flu cases get any worse than they

> always were.

Of course it's probably inflated and the frenzy is probably

ridiculous, just as it is over anything remotely resembling a crisis.

But are you denying that millions died in the last flu epidemic?

Either way, who really cares about whether you saw flu cases get worse

or not? I've never seen anyone with salmonella or smallpox, so

clearly neither ever existed. That's what's wonderful about the

endlessly paranoid perspective-- nothing anyone else says can be

trusted, so it's only anecdotal personal opinion that's allowed and

we're right back to the preliterate age. Wonderful.

> > given the choice between getting influenza or

> > getting a shot, I'll take the shot any day.

>

> If it's the choice between society ostracizing you and the shot, by

> golly you're gonna get the shot.

Yes, and that's really the choice, isn't it. I've never been asked by

anyone aside from my obsessive-compulsive step mother whether I've had

a flu shot.

> >I think.

> Oh, now you don't even know. Well, is it or isn't it?

I'll take people who don't claim to know anything any day over those

with opinions expressed as fact.

> >Viruses are little

> > protein robots* that take over your DNA, turning

> > your cells into virus-makng machines. In the

> > process, they alter the DNA,

>

> No, viruses are bits of DNA your own cells have shed. This is as

> normal as the sun rising every day. Under stress, which fat monkeys

> (humans) increase by giving themselves poison injections, cells shed

> DNA and grab some good strands. It's a healing mechanism. It's as

> natural as the sunrise and almost as ancient. It predates

> multicellular organisms. It predates _nucleated_cell_organisms. It

> is, literally, older than dirt. And your cells still know how to do

> it.

And it's the government that's telling us otherwise, right, for their

organized sinister purposes? Everyone who's ever studied virology or

medicine is in on it? And yes, a bunch of private souls on public

walls have, from their bunkers deep in the mountains of Utah, shat out

the real truth onto the wonder that is the internet? Misspellings and

all. I mean really, I'm as disgusted with the medical system and the

current state of affairs as anyone, I'll probably never have another

vaccination etc, but this kind of gnashing makes me want to beg for

the bomb just to stop having to listen to the endless stream of

knee-jerk opinion touted haughtily as enlightened truth.

> > Viruses are thought to be just about THE

> > major cause of permanent DNA modifications.

>

> Vaccines are.

> Blaming germs for disease is like blaming vultures for the slaughter

> of the deer herd. Blaming viruses is even worse. Blaming viruses

> for disease is like blaming the SLAUGHTER OF THE DEER herd on the

> BITS OF DEER CARCASS left lying around.

Yes, DON'T YOU KNOW, didn't you read the web site? They lay it all

out in all-too-simplistic nondetail.

> > by using a Neti pot or saline wash, which

> > gets rid of the ICAM1 that the virus uses

> > to " dock " in the nose

>

> This is just as if humans are a race of Martians. They came down to

> Earth -- and they've been washing themselves ever since! Their poor

> lives are one long continuous washing ritual, trying to live on Earth

> without becoming a part of it!

Sounds more reasonable than this " just become a part of it " malarky.

We came out of it, and the will to escape is actual and present and

part of our humanity; it seems to me a part of some " becoming, "

whatever that might be, and not to be guiltily scorned by

holier-than-thou grandstanders. The tyranny of the real and wretched

physical will never be enough.

March 10, 2006

Thiscanhappen:

I was researching this subject and I have to agree 100% with you.

Below are some links supporting my conclusion:

http://www.mercola.com/2006/mar/7/why_do_young_children_need_flu_shot

s.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2006/mar/9/useless_vaccines_destroy_a_childs_h

ealth_forever.htm

http://gentlebirth.org/nwnm.org/VaccineOffer.htm

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/VaccineResearcher.html

http://www.oasisadvancedwellness.com/learning/informed-vaccine.html

http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/ingredie.html

>

> >

> > > Ok...I got that out of my system. Now...if anyone has some

> > > information and treating childhood illnesses I would

appreciate

> it if

> > > you could keep in touch with me - harpazo_hope@ What I'm

> > > curious on is the toxicity of fever medication. I don't ever

want

> to

> > > see my daughter have a seizure again and will probably run to

the

> > > tylenol everytime she feels warm now. One in seven children

have a

> > > febrile seizure by age 6!

> >

> > OK, at the risk of irritating everyone ...

> >

> > I met a young man whose brain was fried by a high

> > fever ... I've heard a woman whose brain was fried, and her name

is

> Heidi. You have got everything beebackwards. Since you've

irritated

> people, I think you can be irritated back.

>

> > As for vaccinations: I think for babies there

> > might be more issues, but with the bird flu and

> > some of the nastier stuff coming around,

>

> Is the flu really going around, or is that what you were told?

> Really. In five years I saw the flu go from something you dealt

with

> like the weather or traffic to killer - in our media. I saw the

> propaganda give people instant amnesia about the previously touted

> statistics. But I never saw our flu cases get any worse than they

> always were.

>

> > and that stupid

> > flu virus kills thousands of people every year

> > (about 36,000

> It does not kill 36,000 a year. The CDC itself will tell you

that.

>

> > This year's shot gave pretty close to 100% protection

> > for younger folks

>

> Shots don't give any protection to anybody.

>

> > Anyway, I've seen enough kids get damaged from

> > NOT getting the shots

>

> You've ATTIRBUTED everything under the sun to notgetting the shots.

>

> (of course, I ALSO don't happen to agree that the shots cause

> > autism,

> You can't just choose not to agree with facts.

>

> > given the choice between getting influenza or

> > getting a shot, I'll take the shot any day.

>

> If it's the choice between society ostracizing you and the shot,

by

> golly you're gonna get the shot.

>

> > There are concerns about mercury in vaccines,

> > and my hospital was offering non-mercury

> > shots to those who asked,

>

> what is a HOSPITAL doing giving out mercury in the first place?

> Making people sick.

>

> >I think.

> Oh, now you don't even know. Well, is it or isn't it?

>

> Really, if someone has to teach you that mercury is bad for you,

then

> you are really far gone.

>

> >Personally

> It's obvious that it's your opinion. There is no need to say it,

> unless you want to back out of trouble later.

>

> > I think a lot of the shot reactions that

> > have been reported are because of the egg-base

> > in the shots ... eggs are allergenic.

>

> Eggs cause allergies because bodies recognize the protein that

came

> in the invasion (injection).

>

> The vaccine> people know that, and are really trying to come

> > up with a better technology.

>

> In the meantime, we hafta put up with what they've got?

>

> >

> > The anti-vaccination bit is hurting a lot

> > of kids right now

> Here is a statement of course you will back out of. It's

dangerous.

> Folks like Jasmine lose custody of their kids because of it.

>

> >with polio too,

> Polio ONLY comes from vaccines.

>

> >in other

> > countries, because of rumors

> Rumors from a radio talker, who got them FROM A PAMPHLET OUR GOOD

> GOVERNMENT PUT OUT TO INFORM FOLKS OF THE FACTS. That same

> government whose agents said their own pamphlets weren't true.

And

> said the voices answering the number labeled " CDC hotline " weren't

> their own agents.

>

> >about the

> > vaccine. There will be, as a result, many

> > crippled kids in those countries

>

> when there aren't any, you'll rationalize it away.

>

> >because> they are afraid of a sugar cube.

>

> With something too bad for the US in it.

>

> > Smallpox wiped out about 90% of the Native

> > American population,

> The smallpox vaccine was discontinued because all it did was make

> people sick!

>

> >Viruses are little

> > protein robots* that take over your DNA, turning

> > your cells into virus-makng machines. In the

> > process, they alter the DNA,

>

> No, viruses are bits of DNA your own cells have shed. This is as

> normal as the sun rising every day. Under stress, which fat

monkeys

> (humans) increase by giving themselves poison injections, cells

shed

> DNA and grab some good strands. It's a healing mechanism. It's

as

> natural as the sunrise and almost as ancient. It predates

> multicellular organisms. It predates _nucleated_cell_organisms.

It

> is, literally, older than dirt. And your cells still know how to

do

> it.

>

> > Viruses are thought to be just about THE

> > major cause of permanent DNA modifications.

>

> Vaccines are.

> Blaming germs for disease is like blaming vultures for the

slaughter

> of the deer herd. Blaming viruses is even worse. Blaming viruses

> for disease is like blaming the SLAUGHTER OF THE DEER herd on the

> BITS OF DEER CARCASS left lying around.

>

> >You

> > aren't detoxing, you are just a handy organism

> > to help the virus spread itself.

>

> You always were an environment for germs. So make friends with

the

> right ones.

> >

> > by using a Neti pot or saline wash, which

> > gets rid of the ICAM1 that the virus uses

> > to " dock " in the nose

>

> This is just as if humans are a race of Martians. They came down

to

> Earth -- and they've been washing themselves ever since! Their

poor

> lives are one long continuous washing ritual, trying to live on

Earth

> without becoming a part of it!

>

> *p.s. like data?

> >

>

March 10, 2006

Well, I'm not a CEO or medical doctor, but I'll take the $20,000 bet of drinking

vaccine additive ingredients, adjusted for rmy body weight. I could use a spare

$20,000. Not that these are in any way good for me, but I'll bet that I have no

lasting effects.

This is not to say that the safety of vaccines can't be improved or that every

vaccination is needed. However, the only reason we are even considering this is

that we no longer have hundreds of thousands of kids dying each year of, say,

whooping cough (in the US, over 250,000 kids died of that in 1934 alone), then

the vaccines and their ingredients can be reasonably looked at.

But keep in mind the risk evaluation of your risk of ever becoming ill from a

vaccine ingredient (I never have) vs risk contracting the illness. Unhappily, I

don't see much intelligent risk assessment by a lot of people anymore. My

favorite case in point: in 1991 Peru had been free of cholera for decades.

Because of concern that there was a tiny risk of cancer from chlorinated water

(since disproven), Peru decided not to chlorinate their drinking water. Result?

A massive epidemic of cholera that started in Peru and infected over 300,000 in

that country alone. Although drinking water was not the only source of

transmission, it was the main factor.

So risk do you want? Do you try to avoid the small risk and wager or chose to

believe that you will avoid the big risk? Not very good public health policy,

I'm afraid.

Re: OT when doctors lie to you

Thiscanhappen:

I was researching this subject and I have to agree 100% with you.

Below are some links supporting my conclusion:

http://www.mercola.com/2006/mar/7/why_do_young_children_need_flu_shot

s.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2006/mar/9/useless_vaccines_destroy_a_childs_h

ealth_forever.htm

http://gentlebirth.org/nwnm.org/VaccineOffer.htm

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/VaccineResearcher.html

http://www.oasisadvancedwellness.com/learning/informed-vaccine.html

http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/ingredie.html

>

> >

> > > Ok...I got that out of my system. Now...if anyone has some

> > > information and treating childhood illnesses I would

appreciate

> it if

> > > you could keep in touch with me - harpazo_hope@ What I'm

> > > curious on is the toxicity of fever medication. I don't ever

want

> to

> > > see my daughter have a seizure again and will probably run to

the

> > > tylenol everytime she feels warm now. One in seven children

have a

> > > febrile seizure by age 6!

> >

> > OK, at the risk of irritating everyone ...

> >

> > I met a young man whose brain was fried by a high

> > fever ... I've heard a woman whose brain was fried, and her name

is

> Heidi. You have got everything beebackwards. Since you've

irritated

> people, I think you can be irritated back.

>

> > As for vaccinations: I think for babies there

> > might be more issues, but with the bird flu and

> > some of the nastier stuff coming around,

>

> Is the flu really going around, or is that what you were told?

> Really. In five years I saw the flu go from something you dealt

with

> like the weather or traffic to killer - in our media. I saw the

> propaganda give people instant amnesia about the previously touted

> statistics. But I never saw our flu cases get any worse than they

> always were.

>

> > and that stupid

> > flu virus kills thousands of people every year

> > (about 36,000

> It does not kill 36,000 a year. The CDC itself will tell you

that.

>

> > This year's shot gave pretty close to 100% protection

> > for younger folks

>

> Shots don't give any protection to anybody.

>

> > Anyway, I've seen enough kids get damaged from

> > NOT getting the shots

>

> You've ATTIRBUTED everything under the sun to notgetting the shots.

>

> (of course, I ALSO don't happen to agree that the shots cause

> > autism,

> You can't just choose not to agree with facts.

>

> > given the choice between getting influenza or

> > getting a shot, I'll take the shot any day.

>

> If it's the choice between society ostracizing you and the shot,

by

> golly you're gonna get the shot.

>

> > There are concerns about mercury in vaccines,

> > and my hospital was offering non-mercury

> > shots to those who asked,

>

> what is a HOSPITAL doing giving out mercury in the first place?

> Making people sick.

>

> >I think.

> Oh, now you don't even know. Well, is it or isn't it?

>

> Really, if someone has to teach you that mercury is bad for you,

then

> you are really far gone.

>

> >Personally

> It's obvious that it's your opinion. There is no need to say it,

> unless you want to back out of trouble later.

>

> > I think a lot of the shot reactions that

> > have been reported are because of the egg-base

> > in the shots ... eggs are allergenic.

>

> Eggs cause allergies because bodies recognize the protein that

came

> in the invasion (injection).

>

> The vaccine> people know that, and are really trying to come

> > up with a better technology.

>

> In the meantime, we hafta put up with what they've got?

>

> >

> > The anti-vaccination bit is hurting a lot

> > of kids right now

> Here is a statement of course you will back out of. It's

dangerous.

> Folks like Jasmine lose custody of their kids because of it.

>

> >with polio too,

> Polio ONLY comes from vaccines.

>

> >in other

> > countries, because of rumors

> Rumors from a radio talker, who got them FROM A PAMPHLET OUR GOOD

> GOVERNMENT PUT OUT TO INFORM FOLKS OF THE FACTS. That same

> government whose agents said their own pamphlets weren't true.

And

> said the voices answering the number labeled " CDC hotline " weren't

> their own agents.

>

> >about the

> > vaccine. There will be, as a result, many

> > crippled kids in those countries

>

> when there aren't any, you'll rationalize it away.

>

> >because> they are afraid of a sugar cube.

>

> With something too bad for the US in it.

>

> > Smallpox wiped out about 90% of the Native

> > American population,

> The smallpox vaccine was discontinued because all it did was make

> people sick!

>

> >Viruses are little

> > protein robots* that take over your DNA, turning

> > your cells into virus-makng machines. In the

> > process, they alter the DNA,

>

> No, viruses are bits of DNA your own cells have shed. This is as

> normal as the sun rising every day. Under stress, which fat

monkeys

> (humans) increase by giving themselves poison injections, cells

shed

> DNA and grab some good strands. It's a healing mechanism. It's

as

> natural as the sunrise and almost as ancient. It predates

> multicellular organisms. It predates _nucleated_cell_organisms.

It

> is, literally, older than dirt. And your cells still know how to

do

> it.

>

> > Viruses are thought to be just about THE

> > major cause of permanent DNA modifications.

>

> Vaccines are.

> Blaming germs for disease is like blaming vultures for the

slaughter

> of the deer herd. Blaming viruses is even worse. Blaming viruses

> for disease is like blaming the SLAUGHTER OF THE DEER herd on the

> BITS OF DEER CARCASS left lying around.

>

> >You

> > aren't detoxing, you are just a handy organism

> > to help the virus spread itself.

>

> You always were an environment for germs. So make friends with

the

> right ones.

> >

> > by using a Neti pot or saline wash, which

> > gets rid of the ICAM1 that the virus uses

> > to " dock " in the nose

>

> This is just as if humans are a race of Martians. They came down

to

> Earth -- and they've been washing themselves ever since! Their

poor

> lives are one long continuous washing ritual, trying to live on

Earth

> without becoming a part of it!

>

> *p.s. like data?

> >

>

March 11, 2006

>>OK, at the risk of irritating everyone ...

>>

>>I met a young man whose brain was fried by a high

>>fever ... I've heard a woman whose brain was fried, and her name is

>>

>Heidi. You have got everything beebackwards. Since you've irritated

>people, I think you can be irritated back.

>

Ya know, if this wasn't such a personal attack it might have provoked

meaningful discussion. I think I can safely say that Heidi probably

thought she might be irritating people due to the natural lifestyles

people on the list follow. Most folks on these types of groups don't do

vaccines now, which is their choice. Surely there are pros and cons to

the issue. I personally tend to follow my naturopath's advice to look

at them on a case by case basis. Heidi's thoughts on a wide range of

topics have been very helpful to me, and I hope she can continue to

contribute here without such cheap shots below the belt.

Deanna

March 11, 2006

Since I started this thread I thought I should respond.

In my original email I said I didn't want to argue about this because WE ALL

LOVE OUR CHILDREN. Of course we are going to do everything we think is best for

them!

There are so many emotions tied up with this issue it is next to impossible to

discuss without taking it personally. I must admit that Heidi's first email did

offend me a little in places as though she was trying to attack me personally.

But in the end I could step back and know that was not her intent. I think when

discussing these hot issues we all need to step back before responding.

Anyway...I hope this thread dies down FAST.

Jasmin

---------------------------------

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

March 11, 2006

I personally tend to follow my naturopath's advice to look

> at them on a case by case basis. Heidi's thoughts on a wide range of

> topics have been very helpful to me, and I hope she can continue to

> contribute here without such cheap shots below the belt.

>

> Deanna

Thanks, and thanks to all the other thoughtful people.

I do in fact often take " the other side " just because

it's dangerous in general to only have one side

represented. The " anti-vaccine " movement is well represented

here, so it needs a " devil's advocate " !

Dr. Fine's take, FWIW, is a lot like yours, Deanna, and

the other docs seemed to feel similarly. They weren't

recommending not getting vaccines for the more dangerous

stuff, but didn't consider the flu to be dangerous

enough (for most people) to warrant whatever risk there

might be. I expect they might feel differently if it

was, say, the avian flu that was going around, with a

60% death rate.

-- Heidi

March 11, 2006

> There are so many emotions tied up with this issue it is next to

> impossible to discuss without taking it personally. I must admit that

> Heidi's first email did offend me a little in places as though she was

> trying to attack me personally. But in the end I could step back and

> know that was not her intent. I think when discussing these hot issues

> we all need to step back before responding.

> Jasmin

My intent wasn't to offend, though it's one of those " iffy " topics

to disagree on, since, as you point out, we all love our kids!

I was mainly responding to the " when doctors lie to you " ...

my take is that the doctor might have been being rude,

condescending, or overbearing -- typical for too many doctors!

even the alternative types! -- but he wasn't, IMO, " lying " .

He was telling the truth as he saw it, and how probably most of

the scientific community sees it.

Mostly I wouldn't pop in on an issue like this except

that I'm fairly certain we ARE going to see some really

major viruses popping up, after a long era where,

because of vaccines and antibiotics and clean water

mainly, no one has actually SEEN kids dying of scarlet fever

or cholera or polio or tuberculosis or smallpox.

So those diseases have fled to the realm of mythology.

But with globalization, soon the choice may

well be between vaccination or massive fatalities once

again.

But the dis-information about vaccines that is going around

is leaving a lot of mothers without the information

they need to make a decision. Besides reading the

" warning labels " on the websites, read about what

happens to countries where they *don't* vaccinate,

and what used to happen here in this country.

Better, talk to someone who lived through it.

Educate yourself, understand what is going on

with each disease, before believing what Mercola

or the autism groups or the CDC or Heidi says.

-- Heidi

March 11, 2006

Amen.

Re: OT when doctors lie to you

> There are so many emotions tied up with this issue it is next to

> impossible to discuss without taking it personally. I must admit that

> Heidi's first email did offend me a little in places as though she was

> trying to attack me personally. But in the end I could step back and

> know that was not her intent. I think when discussing these hot issues

> we all need to step back before responding.

> Jasmin

My intent wasn't to offend, though it's one of those " iffy " topics

to disagree on, since, as you point out, we all love our kids!

I was mainly responding to the " when doctors lie to you " ...

my take is that the doctor might have been being rude,

condescending, or overbearing -- typical for too many doctors!

even the alternative types! -- but he wasn't, IMO, " lying " .

He was telling the truth as he saw it, and how probably most of

the scientific community sees it.

Mostly I wouldn't pop in on an issue like this except

that I'm fairly certain we ARE going to see some really

major viruses popping up, after a long era where,

because of vaccines and antibiotics and clean water

mainly, no one has actually SEEN kids dying of scarlet fever

or cholera or polio or tuberculosis or smallpox.

So those diseases have fled to the realm of mythology.

But with globalization, soon the choice may

well be between vaccination or massive fatalities once

again.

But the dis-information about vaccines that is going around

is leaving a lot of mothers without the information

they need to make a decision. Besides reading the

" warning labels " on the websites, read about what

happens to countries where they *don't* vaccinate,

and what used to happen here in this country.

Better, talk to someone who lived through it.

Educate yourself, understand what is going on

with each disease, before believing what Mercola

or the autism groups or the CDC or Heidi says.

-- Heidi

March 11, 2006

Heidi,

>

>Dr. Fine's take, FWIW, is a lot like yours, Deanna, and

>the other docs seemed to feel similarly. They weren't

>recommending not getting vaccines for the more dangerous

>stuff, but didn't consider the flu to be dangerous

>enough (for most people) to warrant whatever risk there

>might be. I expect they might feel differently if it

>was, say, the avian flu that was going around, with a

>60% death rate.

>

We have never gotten flu shots. I haven't had a flu since 1994 <knock

on wood>. Both boys got a bad flu 2 years ago with high temps that I

think I reduced with Tylenol. It is just one of those things that I am

very ambivalent about in general, but hope that I have done my best in

each year that goes by. I may yet take the jab, who knows (but I hope

not). Since we homeschool and eat so well now, I feel the risk is less

than for city dwellers with bad diets and compromised immunity. I guess

I might get emotional if I lost someone to the flu, or they were hurt by

vaccination (which actually could be with the MMR and my asd ds, but I

can't be sure about it, nor can I do anything about it, so why get in a

tizzy?).

Polio, meningitis, streptococcus and now avian flu are real threats,

especially with the human population skyrocketing to very unsustainable

levels and unsound factory farming practices. Polio has been found in

the Amish community in MN recently btw, so it is a risk to go without

vaccination (a risk most Americans are not familiar with because of its

former eradication). And I do have a few chickens here and think about

avian flu and options. I may vaccinate them, I don't know. If I don't

and the bird flu hits my neck of the woods, I may slaughter them. Heck,

with the feds and states trying to force this animal tracking business,

it may be too much hassle to keep them anyway. And that is sad, as they

are such a vital part of my budding homestead ecology.

Deanna

March 11, 2006

Deanna wrote:

> We have never gotten flu shots. I haven't had a flu since 1994 <knock

> on wood>. Both boys got a bad flu 2 years ago with high temps that I

> think I reduced with Tylenol. It is just one of those things that I am

> very ambivalent about in general, but hope that I have done my best in

> each year that goes by. I may yet take the jab, who knows (but I hope

> not). Since we homeschool and eat so well now, I feel the risk is less

> than for city dwellers with bad diets and compromised immunity. I guess

> I might get emotional if I lost someone to the flu, or they were hurt by

> vaccination (which actually could be with the MMR and my asd ds, but I

> can't be sure about it, nor can I do anything about it, so why get in a

> tizzy?).

Right. For most people, the risk of dying from the flu

is minimal, so the issue of getting the shot gets really

iffy. I rarely get even colds anymore myself. I DID get

a very bad flu one year which scared the daylights

out of me, and since I have a kid who is " borderline "

in many ways, that in " flu " ences my thoughts a lot.

I did lose a kitten once to a vaccine: it got the shot

and died an hour later. Bad batch? Anaphalactic shock?

So the next cat I didn't vaccinate: and it died of a cat virus.

I don't think animal vaccines are well tested though,

and I've never had another animal get sick from

a vaccine (or any human I've known personally, other

than minor symptoms of the virus in question in

some cases ... didn't the smallpox shot make a little

scab way back when?).

> Polio, meningitis, streptococcus and now avian flu are real threats,

> especially with the human population skyrocketing to very unsustainable

> levels and unsound factory farming practices. Polio has been found in

> the Amish community in MN recently btw, so it is a risk to go without

> vaccination (a risk most Americans are not familiar with because of its

> former eradication). And I do have a few chickens here and think about

> avian flu and options. I may vaccinate them, I don't know. If I don't

> and the bird flu hits my neck of the woods, I may slaughter them. Heck,

> with the feds and states trying to force this animal tracking business,

> it may be too much hassle to keep them anyway. And that is sad, as they

> are such a vital part of my budding homestead ecology.

I've been debating that with my chooks. I have chickens AND ducks,

and the ducks can carry avian flu and not get sick. It

doesn't seem to exist around here at this point, but

I'm not sure what I'll do if it gets here. It seems

to have migrated to the wild bird community, which

means wiping it out will be very difficult if not

impossible. I kinda expect that most chicks will

end up being vaccinated before they are sold, and

it will end up being one of those " background dangers "

of life, like malaria and AIDS.

-- Heidi

March 11, 2006

Do you understand the premise of how vaccines work? In general, you need to

have a culture from the exact thing you are trying to prevent before you can

create a vaccine. That is why sometimes even with a flu shot you can still

get the flu. You were not inoculated for the strain that happened by you at

the time.

The great tragedy with the bird flu " threat " is that by the time they get an

actual vaccine that works, roughly 8 - 10 months will have passed and the

significant damage will have come and gone. So, relying upon the premise

that you can get a shot to stop the bird flu is frankly a joke. It is a

placebo to placate those who have been victimized by the created hysteria.

I am not saying that there is no threat. Far from it. What I am saying is

that you cannot rely upon the concept that there will be a quick fix if and

when a pandemic might occur. It just will not happen. There is no known

technology that will allow the culturing and production of significant

amounts of any form of vaccine in less than 15 months as of today. To even

be able to get it down to 8 or 9 months would almost be a miracle in the

making.

As to vaccines in general. If you want them, have them. I will never again

allow myself to have any. Fortunately my grandchildren have parents that

have spent significant time researching the issue and will not allow the

children to be vaccinated for any reason whatsoever.

You are much better off with proper nutrition as the mainstay against

disease in general. If it is a viral infection, nothing is going to work

anyhow. It just has to run its course. All you can possibly do with

antibiotics and other drugs is to minimize the collateral damage. They will

not stop the virus itself. If you use antibiotics, then you also need to

consider following up with a good dose of probiotic enzymes afterwards to

rebuild the friendly bacteria in your gut. That will also help reduce or

eliminate the problems associated with candida overgrowth (yeast infections)

that are prevalent in nearly everyone who has had a course of antibiotics

lasting more than a week.

I have had a friend's wife and one cousin both die from adverse reactions to

vaccines. Until 2 years ago, I would have gladly stepped up and let them

shoot me up. NEVER AGAIN with what I have learned in the past year and a

half.

Regards,

Bruce Guilmette, PhD

Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc.

<http://survivecancer.net> Http://survivecancer.net

Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself.

Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV)

_____

From: nutrition

[mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Heidi

Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 7:35 PM

nutrition

Subject: Re: OT when doctors lie to you