RE: Anyone know how many carbs are in....

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike, how much fermenting brings down the carb-count would depend on

how long, and temperature conditions. Therefore it would be impossible

unless duplicating all circumstances at the same time to get the same

results. mho, Tasting would be one way to tell. Virginia

D.

[Guest guest]

Getting an inexpensive glucometer and doing testing after eating the ferment in

question (alone or in a mixed meal) would give you some indication of the impact

it is having on your blood sugar which is an indicator of the carbohydrate load.

---Carol

ijzendoorn@... wrote:

Hi Mike, how much fermenting brings down the carb-count would depend on

how long, and temperature conditions. Therefore it would be impossible

unless duplicating all circumstances at the same time to get the same

results. mho, Tasting would be one way to tell. Virginia

D.

[Guest guest]

> Getting an inexpensive glucometer and doing testing after

> eating the ferment in question (alone or in a mixed meal)

> would give you some indication of the impact it is having on

> your blood sugar which is an indicator of the carbohydrate load.

>

Huh. Now there's some good advice. Have you done this yourself? Care to

share any results that you have seen?

Ron

[Guest guest]

>Huh. Now there's some good advice. Have you done this yourself? Care to

>share any results that you have seen?

>

>Ron

I tried this, figuring I wanted to figure out the glycemic load of the various

foods I ate. What I found, for me, was that my blood sugar just doesn't vary

after eating unless I eat, like, half a bowl of cookie dough. Which was

surprising, because I've always had these " low blood sugar " times and when I had

a 4-hour glucose tolerance test done, I had a nice big curve. But drinking

glucose on an empty stomach must just be a lot different than what I usually

eat, which is mainly fruits, vegies, potatoes, meat. It seems those break down

slowly enough that my body can handle balancing the blood sugar just fine.

Also surprisingly, when I would skip a meal and feel faint and grouchy, at that

point my blood sugar would be HIGH, which I've read is because the body pumps

out cortisol to raise the blood sugar and overshoots the mark (the cortisol is

what causes the grouchiness in that case, not " low blood sugar " ). Since then

I've been doing the feast/fast thing and that doesn't happen so easily.

I think it's a neat idea though, esp. if you find out your blood sugar DOES

raise after a meal. Then you can experiment with things like adding kimchi or

other ferments to the meal ... supposedly they help prevent that.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Hi Ron,

I am one that would be categorized as diabetic by the medical establishment.

However, I have never been medicated and never want to be. My discovery

coincided with my beginning low carbing several years ago, which is what lead me

to NT/WAP. My problem is that once my blood sugar goes up it takes a longer

than normal to come down, so my goal is to have it stay

down. Managing carbohydrates is the way to go.

The one fermented product that seemed to make my blood sugar go up was kombucha.

However, I now believe that it was due to the fact that I did not brew long

enough. It seemed to keep the sweet taste, even after what I thought was a long

brewing period, hence I stopped brewing. I have sampled kombucha made by other

folks on two other occasions and each time it did not taste sweet and I felt a

thermal reaction (in a good way) after having a few sips. I have since decided

to try again and have a batch going right now.

I had moderate spikes after kefir, but that was when I tested after having kefir

alone, rather than a mixed meal. I like to add egg yolks, coconut meat and

perhaps two strawberries to kefir if I am planning on having a smoothie. I

understand that fermenting the kefir for longer periods will reduce the lactose,

but I do not prefer it to be too sour, so I usually refrigerate it after about a

day and a half. Also, I have made kefir cream with using raw cream and it was

great, so I would put some of that in the smoothie also.

If you are thinking of getting a meter, check out the price of the strips. That

is where the money is made.

HTH ---Carol )

RBJR <rbjr@...> wrote:

> Getting an inexpensive glucometer and doing testing after

> eating the ferment in question (alone or in a mixed meal)

> would give you some indication of the impact it is having on

> your blood sugar which is an indicator of the carbohydrate load.

>

Huh. Now there's some good advice. Have you done this yourself? Care to

share any results that you have seen?

Ron

[Guest guest]

Hi Carol,

> I am one that would be categorized as diabetic by the medical

> establishment. However, I have never been medicated and

> never want to be. My discovery coincided with my beginning

> low carbing several years ago, which is what lead me to

> NT/WAP. My problem is that once my blood sugar goes up it

> takes a longer than normal to come down, so my goal is to

> have it stay

> down. Managing carbohydrates is the way to go.

Yes. I can relate. I'm not diabetic but I was surely in heavy insulin

resistance three years ago. Carb management fixed that.

>

> The one fermented product that seemed to make my blood sugar

> go up was kombucha. However, I now believe that it was due

> to the fact that I did not brew long enough. It seemed to

> keep the sweet taste, even after what I thought was a long

> brewing period, hence I stopped brewing. I have sampled

> kombucha made by other folks on two other occasions and each

> time it did not taste sweet and I felt a thermal reaction (in

> a good way) after having a few sips. I have since decided to

> try again and have a batch going right now.

So far I've done really well with all of the ferments that I've made to

include milk kefir, goat milk kefir (my favorite), fruit kefirs and lactic

acid fruit and herb ferments. I have not tried to make kombucha although I

did get to taste it at the WAP conference. I think my body has managed to

handle these things because I keep the sugar content so low and ferment them

until they are dry. For the fruit and herb drinks I make them very strong

and cut them with sparkling mineral water.

>

> I had moderate spikes after kefir, but that was when I tested

> after having kefir alone, rather than a mixed meal. I like

> to add egg yolks, coconut meat and perhaps two strawberries

> to kefir if I am planning on having a smoothie. I understand

> that fermenting the kefir for longer periods will reduce the

> lactose, but I do not prefer it to be too sour, so I usually

> refrigerate it after about a day and a half. Also, I have

> made kefir cream with using raw cream and it was great, so I

> would put some of that in the smoothie also.

Interesting. I have not had access to enough cream yet to be willing to

kefir some of it. It's too much like candy and it all gets used straight

up. Yum. As for the sour flavor -- I love my milk kefirs very strong and

bitter.

It's really almost impossible for me to believe that I like this stuff. I

took to it almost immediately after making my first kefir about 6 months

ago. I despised plain yogurt and the like in the past.

>

> If you are thinking of getting a meter, check out the price

> of the strips. That is where the money is made.

>

For sure! They have a pretty good little financial gig going, don't they?

Ron

[Guest guest]

Hi Heidi,

More pieces of the puzzle falling into place...

> I tried this, figuring I wanted to figure out the glycemic

> load of the various foods I ate. What I found, for me, was

> that my blood sugar just doesn't vary after eating unless I

> eat, like, half a bowl of cookie dough. Which was surprising,

> because I've always had these " low blood sugar " times and

> when I had a 4-hour glucose tolerance test done, I had a nice

> big curve. But drinking glucose on an empty stomach must just

> be a lot different than what I usually eat, which is mainly

> fruits, vegies, potatoes, meat. It seems those break down

> slowly enough that my body can handle balancing the blood

> sugar just fine.

I've been doing some work with a Metabolic Typing nutritionist out in

California and one of the things that she said spontaneously during one of

our conversations was, " Oh, you are a sensitive blood sugar person. " She

went on to explain that of the thousands of people she has worked with she's

found that some people can feel microscopic changes in blood sugar level

while others can have fantastic swings and never be aware of them.

What is beginning to come clear to me is that a lot of what I used to think

were blood sugar swings are actually something else. I'm just at the

beginning of this awareness, so as to what the something else might be, I

don't know yet. Perhaps your Iga? LOL. Igxyz?

>

> Also surprisingly, when I would skip a meal and feel faint

> and grouchy, at that point my blood sugar would be HIGH,

> which I've read is because the body pumps out cortisol to

> raise the blood sugar and overshoots the mark (the cortisol

> is what causes the grouchiness in that case, not " low blood

> sugar " ). Since then I've been doing the feast/fast thing and

> that doesn't happen so easily.

I would like to talk to you about this but I don't have time right now. I'm

starting to wonder if it might work for me. I read _The Warrior Diet_ a year

or more ago and kind of dismissed it. Some of what I've read on NN has

peaked my interest.

>

> I think it's a neat idea though, esp. if you find out your

> blood sugar DOES raise after a meal. Then you can experiment

> with things like adding kimchi or other ferments to the meal

> ... supposedly they help prevent that.

I actually do have a glucometer that I got to test my blood sugar and try to

figure out what was actually going on with me and when I felt good or bad.

The results that I got made little sense to me. Felt good when sugar was

down, felt bad when it was up, felt good when it was up, felt bad when it

was down. Pretty weird. I'm going to have to try it again now that I know

more than I did a year ago when I did it and really pay attention to both

the sugar readings and the type of food that I've eaten prior to the

readings.

Ron

[Guest guest]

>What is beginning to come clear to me is that a lot of what I used to think

>were blood sugar swings are actually something else. I'm just at the

>beginning of this awareness, so as to what the something else might be, I

>don't know yet. Perhaps your Iga? LOL. Igxyz?

We've had some interesting discussions on this in the GFCFNN group. A lot of

seems to be cortisol/hormone imbalance, and a lot of factors come into play:

calcium, Vit D, B6 to name a few. IgA allergies CAN trigger the whole thing

(which is why the folks on that list are on that list!) and I'm sure other

things can too.

>I would like to talk to you about this but I don't have time right now. I'm

>starting to wonder if it might work for me. I read _The Warrior Diet_ a year

>or more ago and kind of dismissed it. Some of what I've read on NN has

>peaked my interest.

The book wouldn't appeal to me at all except that I tried the diet in order to

dismiss it (i.e., it's an easy thing to DISPROVE! ... which was also why I first

tried GF). I don't usually like pop culture books at all. However, there IS good

scientific research going on in this area right now.

>I actually do have a glucometer that I got to test my blood sugar and try to

>figure out what was actually going on with me and when I felt good or bad.

>The results that I got made little sense to me. Felt good when sugar was

>down, felt bad when it was up, felt good when it was up, felt bad when it

>was down. Pretty weird. I'm going to have to try it again now that I know

>more than I did a year ago when I did it and really pay attention to both

>the sugar readings and the type of food that I've eaten prior to the

>readings.

I haven't noticed any real connection between blood sugar levels and how I feel.

I DO keep track of how I feel after a meal. My original goal was " come up with a

breakfast that will let me go without eating til lunch " ... I experimented with

breakfast foods, diets, etc. until I found something that worked, but I HAD to

eat constantly and now it's solved. I don't have an ideology about it though:

except -- " experiment. find what works " (get messy, make mistakes! I'm really

Miss Frizzle in disquise!).

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Ron wrote:

>I think my body has managed to

>handle these things because I keep the sugar content so low and ferment

them

>until they are dry. For the fruit and herb drinks I make them very

strong

>and cut them with sparkling mineral water.

Hi Ron,

I'm Dahlia and relatively new to this group; I've been fermenting with

milk kefir grains and have just recently begun experimenting with water

kefir grains. I haven't had much success with brewing juice+wkg's and I

was wondering if you'd share your recipe? I also am concerned about sugar

content, and alcohol as the result of fermentation. When you say you

make your drinks 'very strong', do you mean very sour and if so, how do

you ferment out the sugar without increasing the alcohol?

Thanks very much for your help,

Dahlia