Re: Composting vs. Fermenting: Ponder Me This

[Guest guest]

Its winter where I live. Do you live in a warm climate where it should

be composting year round?

Darrell

[Guest guest]

Oh yeah... Very observant :-). It's winter here in California too and

although it's not freezing it's pretty darned cold for things to compost

very quickly. In the fifties to sixties... We set up a new system and so I

don't think of such things. And our worm bin is inside so it's always going

great guns. My question was a general one.

Since both fermenting and composting seem to be about breaking things down

into different entities I was just being philosophical about their

similarities and differences... ~Robin

[Guest guest]

> Since both fermenting and composting seem to be about breaking things

> down into different entities I was just being philosophical about their

> similarities and differences... ~Robin

The worm castings should be good for the compost pile no matter what.

Plain white cane sugar, cornmeal, or stale dog kibble will also boost a

compost pile.

Darrell

[Guest guest]

Did you add salt.

Sorry, just had to say it, : )

Tim

[Guest guest]

Hi Robin,

Composting and fermentation are both microbial actions where there

are one or more bacteria and/or yeast actively consuming an energy

source, in doing so they break down organic materials, wastes or

by-products into increasingly simple forms.

In this respect Composting and Fermentation are one in the same,

Really composting IS fermentation.

FERMENTATION: [3] The process of chemical change in ORGANIC MATTER

brought about by living organisms. F - fermentation S - fermentacion

(The first and second definitions were specifically related to alcohol

fermentation)

Here's a philisophical perspective..Fermenting a vegetable makes some

of the nutrients more available, it increases the levels of some

nutrients, it is pre-digested by the process and other formerly absent

beneficial acids are created by the fermenting bacterias.

You could say that the bacteria makes the food more biologically

available to you, breaking it down into a more absorbable

compostition, and then some..

And so the compost pile has all the right bacterias/yeasts to do this

with your yard and kitchen waste for your garden. Little plants can't

swallow big plants, they first need to be " prepared " via fermentation.

I treat my compost pile just like my other ferments..It is alive and

must be maintained in a way that caters to this life.

A healthy compost pile requires;

Adequate moisture, it should be moist and humid throughout, but not

soaked, cover it for the rainy season and this will help keep it

" cooking " through the winter.

Adequate air; Build the pile so that the " ingredients " are evenly

distributed, and turn it often, once a week in summer.

A very efficient pile composition ideally is created by alternating

layers of " spent dirt " from your garden. Dig off the top layer of soil

while double digging your beds and trade for fresh compost.

Like this:

Spent Dirt

Layers of green nitrogen rich plant matter and/or worm castings, manure, etc.

Spent Dirt

Layers of dry carbon rich plant matter. Corn stalks, Sunflower stalks,

straw hay, dry oak leaves, sawdust etc.

Dirt

Nitrogen

Dirt

Carbon

And so on...

A pile built this way and turned a few times can be done in a couple

months, especially if you have a source of manure.

We have goats and rabbits. The straw hay and especially rabbit manure

create some serious heat in the pile that really speeds up the

process.

Take Care,

Beau

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 03:14:59 -0600, Darrell <lazlo75501@...> wrote:

>

> > Since both fermenting and composting seem to be about breaking things

> > down into different entities I was just being philosophical about their

> > similarities and differences... ~Robin

>

> The worm castings should be good for the compost pile no matter what.

> Plain white cane sugar, cornmeal, or stale dog kibble will also boost a

> compost pile.

>

> Darrell

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> At the risk of expanding " microbial nutrition " to new and perhaps unwelcome

> limits, can the scientists in the group explain the difference between

fermenting and

> composting?

>

I'm somewhat experienced with making large amounts of compost and fermented

vegetables, so I guess I could take a crack at it.

Compost I would postulate to be the result of a fermentative process that

proceeds to a more degraded end product, that being humus. Compost would start

with fermentative processes and finish with processes of decay and end product

decomposition. While fermentation as we use it refers to a process whose end

products are at an intermediary stage of breakdown. and which still contain

higher order organic structures and compounds and usable energy that can be

assimilated through the processes of ingestion and digestion.

All composts are the products of fermentation but not all products of

fermentation are composts...how's that.

Bruce

[Guest guest]

> All composts are the products of fermentation but not all products of

> fermentation are composts...how's that.

>

>

> Bruce

Well done Bruce!

So, when fermentating foods/beverages we often try to stop or slow the

fermentative processes with heat or cold when specific organoleptic,

textural and chemical qualities reach optimal status, but before

further " decay. (e.g. " pasturize/refrigerate the cider before it turns

to vinegar " or " Eat that Kimchi before it turns too sour. " )

When composting, we are going for a more or less " full decomposition,

or total breakdown " of materials into their simplest, base

forms/elements. Would that be correct, close at least?

Thouroughly fermented,

Beau

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Guys! I just got back from a long rainy hike and was delighted to see

this discussion. How interesting!! I want to study it a bit because the

concepts behind it have always interested me: decomposition, falling apart,

breaking down, entropy. I mean why does my house always get dirtier not

cleaner? Just kidding...

A little background: After an opportunistic bacterial infection (and its

worse treatment!) thrashed the flora in my guts, I'd never questioned how

the food I ate was turned into energy to do stuff. When I realized that my

quality of life depended not on medical doctors but on my comprehension of

microbial science and diet, this subject of decomposition came closer to

home. In fact, I was decomposing a little bit too fast due to a particular

fungus whose job it usually is to decompose the body after death. That would

be the bad version of the Candida fungus. But as a sixth grader's paper on

fungi stated, " A bad fungus is just a good fungus trying to do its job too

early on an organism. " Good huh? Anyway, my strategy for establishing

digestive balance has been to deny bad bacteria/fungi its food

(sugars/starches) while supplementing relentlessly with good microbes --

mostly from fermented foods. It's taken me over a year and so I've had a bit

of time to think on all this. Since, as a result of this diet, I've

seemingly become healthier than I ever was, the subject of microbial

interaction has become almost poetic for me.

But I digress... We're discussing fermenting, (and ultimately composting,)

which are forms of decomposition. So now I'm wondering. " what about curing? "

Yesterday I made a big ham/bean soup and this morning I happened to have

Gravlax for breakfast: Do these foods fit into our snapshot somewhere? Has

" curing " anything to do with decomposition? I assume it's a different animal

because it's the salt that " cooks " the meat hence no need for microbe here.

Or not?

Thanks so much. I am enjoying this site and all the files and recipes.

~Robin Reese

[Guest guest]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think Gravlax is a fermented food?

Beau

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 16:53:43 -0800, Robin Reese <robin.reese@...> wrote:

>

.. So now I'm wondering. " what about curing? "

> Yesterday I made a big ham/bean soup and this morning I happened to have

> Gravlax for breakfast: Do these foods fit into our snapshot somewhere? Has

> " curing " anything to do with decomposition? I assume it's a different animal

> because it's the salt that " cooks " the meat hence no need for microbe here.

> Or not?

>

> Thanks so much. I am enjoying this site and all the files and recipes.

> ~Robin Reese

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, one provides food for you, the other for the wormies. Wouldn't

care to get the two mixed up.

Very likely different microbes, don't know for certain though.

Steve