Re: Tempeh Expert...sort of

December 9, 2004

Hi ,

I have not seen any mention of tempeh making here, nor am I familiar with the

perforated baggie method or any other method of making tempeh.

I'm sure most of us would be interested in a step by step explaination of

everything from making your $75 device to your method of making tempeh.

Thanks and welcome,

Tonio

Tempeh Expert...sort of

Hello everyone.

I'm new to the group, and was please to discover today that such a

unique group exists.

25 years of my adult life have been spent in Asia, 17 of those in

Indonesia. I fell in love with Tempeh a quarter century ago, and I

was always intrigued by the advent of that fermented food there. I

have visited several small village-level tempeh factories in

Indonesia. After leaving Indonesia and discovering the sad state of

tempeh production outside of that beautiful country, I developed a

number of techniques for producing tempeh at home for my family's

consumption. I am sure you are all familiar with the classic

perforated-baggie technique, for example.

Recently I collaborated with a gentleman who developed a very large-

scale industrial water-bath type tempeh incubator, but it was not

terribly successful due to cost and complexity. As a result I have

revised the home production technique away from baggies to a small,

inexpesive, and easy-to-operate apparatus that can be made from items

purchased at Wal Mart. This device makes a large 2-3 pound cake of

tempeh in 24 hours with no hassles, perfect every time. The parts to

build the thing come to about $75.

Anyway, I need to catch up on the first 800+ postings in this young

group; quite an accomplishment I might add.

In the meantime, I love helping others to make tempeh and I would be

pleased to offer any assistance whatsoever. If anyone is interested,

I could post pictures of the above-mentioned tempeh device.

Thanks,

December 9, 2004

Hello ,

Please do!! I'm interested.

Ken

>

> Hello everyone.

>

> I'm new to the group, and was please to discover today that such a

> unique group exists.

>

> 25 years of my adult life have been spent in Asia, 17 of those in

> Indonesia. I fell in love with Tempeh a quarter century ago, and I

> was always intrigued by the advent of that fermented food there. I

> have visited several small village-level tempeh factories in

> Indonesia. After leaving Indonesia and discovering the sad state

of

> tempeh production outside of that beautiful country, I developed a

> number of techniques for producing tempeh at home for my family's

> consumption. I am sure you are all familiar with the classic

> perforated-baggie technique, for example.

>

> Recently I collaborated with a gentleman who developed a very

large-

> scale industrial water-bath type tempeh incubator, but it was not

> terribly successful due to cost and complexity. As a result I have

> revised the home production technique away from baggies to a

small,

> inexpesive, and easy-to-operate apparatus that can be made from

items

> purchased at Wal Mart. This device makes a large 2-3 pound cake of

> tempeh in 24 hours with no hassles, perfect every time. The parts

to

> build the thing come to about $75.

>

> Anyway, I need to catch up on the first 800+ postings in this

young

> group; quite an accomplishment I might add.

>

> In the meantime, I love helping others to make tempeh and I would

be

> pleased to offer any assistance whatsoever. If anyone is

interested,

> I could post pictures of the above-mentioned tempeh device.

>

> Thanks,

>

December 9, 2004

Hi ,

Wow.

Say, I get the feeling tempeh is very flexible in terms of

ingredients, so I'm wondering if you could cite some seeds that

*don't* work for tempeh?

In terms of pure flavor, what is your favorite mix of seeds for

tempeh?

Finnpo posted a while back asking if anyone knew any methods for

fermenting acorns. I was thinking tempeh might be the most promising

method. Do you have any info about tree seeds of any kind in tempeh?

Speaking of Indonesian cuisine, inspired by a charming little

Indonesian grocery store in Philadelphia, I've recently gotten a

hankering to experiment with Indonesian-style soups and curries. I

bought some kluwak nuts, but haven't had time to play around yet.

It's such a criminally overlooked cuisine in America. It was

intriguing to me to discover that this store was selling a soup that

used kale as a replacement for the recipe's traditional ingredient of

cassia leaves; it was tasty and suggests a way for people who don't

care for the flavor of kale to incorporate it into their diet.

(OT: I played in a gamelan for two years in college!)

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

December 9, 2004

Tonio,

Actually, I noted some interest in tempeh making when this group was

formed. I read the first 30 or so postings and decided to do my first

post here. There are a few people here, it seems, that have made

tempeh in this conventional [baggie] non-Indonesian way.

But, yes, I will try to post some info if people are interested.

> Hi ,

>

> I have not seen any mention of tempeh making here, nor am I

familiar with the perforated baggie method or any other method of

making tempeh.

>

> I'm sure most of us would be interested in a step by step

explaination of everything from making your $75 device to your method

of making tempeh.

>

> Thanks and welcome,

> Tonio

> Tempeh Expert...sort of

>

> Hello everyone.

>

> I'm new to the group, and was please to discover today that such

a

> unique group exists.

>

> 25 years of my adult life have been spent in Asia, 17 of those in

> Indonesia. I fell in love with Tempeh a quarter century ago, and

I

> was always intrigued by the advent of that fermented food there.

I

> have visited several small village-level tempeh factories in

> Indonesia. After leaving Indonesia and discovering the sad state

of

> tempeh production outside of that beautiful country, I developed

a

> number of techniques for producing tempeh at home for my family's

> consumption. I am sure you are all familiar with the classic

> perforated-baggie technique, for example.

>

> Recently I collaborated with a gentleman who developed a very

large-

> scale industrial water-bath type tempeh incubator, but it was not

> terribly successful due to cost and complexity. As a result I

have

> revised the home production technique away from baggies to a

small,

> inexpesive, and easy-to-operate apparatus that can be made from

items

> purchased at Wal Mart. This device makes a large 2-3 pound cake

of

> tempeh in 24 hours with no hassles, perfect every time. The parts

to

> build the thing come to about $75.

>

> Anyway, I need to catch up on the first 800+ postings in this

young

> group; quite an accomplishment I might add.

>

> In the meantime, I love helping others to make tempeh and I would

be

> pleased to offer any assistance whatsoever. If anyone is

interested,

> I could post pictures of the above-mentioned tempeh device.

>

> Thanks,

>

December 9, 2004

Mike,

I must reciprocate your " wow " ....played in a gamelan orchestra.

That's quite an accomplishment considering how divergent Balinese 12-

note music is from western music.

Anyway, I apologize if this disappoints you, but....I am a bit of a

tempeh purist; I prefer soy beans only. I have tried other

combinations, but I still like soy the best, by a wide margin. But

then, I beleive that comes from my personal history living in

Indonesia, anything different tastes odd and counterfeit to me.

Fermenting acorns, now, I'm not so sure what you'd do with them

afterwords....aren't they rather, extremely bitter? Keep in ind that

the tempeh fungus does not get very far beyond the surface of the

innoculated beans. So if the beans themselves taste crappy, making

them into tempeh is probably not a good idea.

On Indo recipes, let me know if you'd like a 2nd opinion. I do most

of the Indo cooking at home, my Chinese/Indo wife does the

Italian...go figure. Yes, Kale is a great substitute for 'dau

cingkang' [tapioca leaves] although a bit less firm. I can post a

really excellent Indo kale recipe if you like hot-spicy-coconut-curry

sort of veggie dishes. Let me know...

BTW...I get up to Philly almost every month, can you post the name

addresss of the Indo store there? I'm looking for some Nyonya Meneer

Jamu...

Thanks,

>

> Hi ,

>

> Wow.

>

> Say, I get the feeling tempeh is very flexible in terms of

> ingredients, so I'm wondering if you could cite some seeds that

> *don't* work for tempeh?

>

> In terms of pure flavor, what is your favorite mix of seeds for

> tempeh?

>

> Finnpo posted a while back asking if anyone knew any methods for

> fermenting acorns. I was thinking tempeh might be the most

promising

> method. Do you have any info about tree seeds of any kind in tempeh?

>

> Speaking of Indonesian cuisine, inspired by a charming little

> Indonesian grocery store in Philadelphia, I've recently gotten a

> hankering to experiment with Indonesian-style soups and curries. I

> bought some kluwak nuts, but haven't had time to play around yet.

> It's such a criminally overlooked cuisine in America. It was

> intriguing to me to discover that this store was selling a soup

that

> used kale as a replacement for the recipe's traditional ingredient

of

> cassia leaves; it was tasty and suggests a way for people who don't

> care for the flavor of kale to incorporate it into their diet.

>

> (OT: I played in a gamelan for two years in college!)

>

> Mike

> SE Pennsylvania

>

> The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

December 9, 2004

Welcome, !

I posted about tempeh here when Mike started this group, I really

think it's one of the most ideal ways to prepare soybeans.

I intend to try making miso and my own shoyu too. But these are more

of a condiment.

So since soybeans are full of phytoestrogens and other

not-so-healthy-oddities, I stick to fermented soy or no soy at all,

" soy protien " is no good either.

I have made tempeh with perforated ziplocks, in an ice chest, with a

heat mat and a dimmer switch. I need a thermostat instead though

because it is too difficult to maintain a constant temp and get

anything else done around here.(requires constant monitoring)

Any recommendations for a cheap thermostat?

Also how important is it to de-hull and/or split the beans? What

percentage of de-hulled to not is acceptable?

Also , Do you know of Nukazuke, e.g Rice Bran Pickles?

I am trying to start a pot right now and information is limited and

was looking for input on this interesting Japanese continuous pickling

method.

Thanks for any info and welcome again!

Beau

> --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

>

December 9, 2004

Beau,

Yes, your early postings caught my attention.

The ziplock bag technique has really dropped out of favor with me,

personally. Too much baby sitting, too much hassle. I guess I'll have

to post my preferred home-based tempeh method soon. Plan on using

your heating pad, dimmer switch and baggies for something else, soon.

The problem is that as the mold population reaches a critical mass,

it becomes exothermic [gives off heat], so you effectively need to

watch closely and switch off the heat mat and cool the stuff down

quickly before it goes bad. As you may have experienced, when the

mycellium gets overheated, it breaks down into a really gross urine-

smelling slime. On the other hand, if it doesn't get warm enough you

end up with tempeh that is just a bunch of beans that crumble apart.

If there is not enough air, the mycellium will not grow into the bean

mass, binding it together. If there is too much air, breeze, the

mycellium is stressed and prematurely reverts to fruiting, turning

the outside of the tempeh gray to black. Unsightly, but still edible.

What a big fat bunch of hassles to contend with.

The approach that I have used is a mini water-bath solution. The bath

contains a submerged thermostat-controlled heater. During the warming

period the water transfers heat to the tempeh pan [floating/sitting

on the water surface], and during the exothermic period the heater

goes off automatically and the water now acts as a big heatsink to

remove heat from the pan. Pretty clever, eh? [bTW..I'm an engineer.]

I can maintain the heat to within +/-2 deg F during the entire 18-24

hour incubation cycle without ever checking it, not even once. I just

load the cooked, innoculated beans into the pan, cover, put it in the

incubator, close the lid and come back tomorrow and remove 2 pounds

of perfect tempeh.

Anyway, I'll post photos and instructions...possibly this weekend.

Dehull or not to dehull is a personal choice. For me, I dehull nearly

100%, because that is the way true Indo tempeh is done. For my small

batches I use a simple gold-panning technique to quickly, and

relatively easily, dehull the cooked beans. I'll explain that with

the instructions.

Nukazuke you say....that doesn't sound politically correct in the

only nation ever hit with an H-bomb. But to your question, no, never

even heard of this. Sorry.

> Welcome, !

> I posted about tempeh here when Mike started this group, I really

> think it's one of the most ideal ways to prepare soybeans.

> I intend to try making miso and my own shoyu too. But these are more

> of a condiment.

> So since soybeans are full of phytoestrogens and other

> not-so-healthy-oddities, I stick to fermented soy or no soy at all,

> " soy protien " is no good either.

> I have made tempeh with perforated ziplocks, in an ice chest, with a

> heat mat and a dimmer switch. I need a thermostat instead though

> because it is too difficult to maintain a constant temp and get

> anything else done around here.(requires constant monitoring)

> Any recommendations for a cheap thermostat?

> Also how important is it to de-hull and/or split the beans? What

> percentage of de-hulled to not is acceptable?

>

> Also , Do you know of Nukazuke, e.g Rice Bran Pickles?

> I am trying to start a pot right now and information is limited and

> was looking for input on this interesting Japanese continuous

pickling

> method.

> Thanks for any info and welcome again!

> Beau

>

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

--~->

> >

December 9, 2004

,

Can tempeh be eaten raw without ill effect?

I am experimenting with a raw food vegan diet and wish to

incorporate cultured foods into my diet. I am particularly

interested in those cultured foods which are said to contain vitimin

b-12. I've read tempeh contains this vitimin.

So, not only am I interested in making tempeh per your technique,

but I'd like to know if the tempeh made can be eaten raw?

Regards,

Ken

>

> Hello everyone.

>

> I'm new to the group, and was please to discover today that such a

> unique group exists.

>

> 25 years of my adult life have been spent in Asia, 17 of those in

> Indonesia. I fell in love with Tempeh a quarter century ago, and I

> was always intrigued by the advent of that fermented food there. I

> have visited several small village-level tempeh factories in

> Indonesia. After leaving Indonesia and discovering the sad state

of

> tempeh production outside of that beautiful country, I developed a

> number of techniques for producing tempeh at home for my family's

> consumption. I am sure you are all familiar with the classic

> perforated-baggie technique, for example.

>

> Recently I collaborated with a gentleman who developed a very

large-

> scale industrial water-bath type tempeh incubator, but it was not

> terribly successful due to cost and complexity. As a result I have

> revised the home production technique away from baggies to a

small,

> inexpesive, and easy-to-operate apparatus that can be made from

items

> purchased at Wal Mart. This device makes a large 2-3 pound cake of

> tempeh in 24 hours with no hassles, perfect every time. The parts

to

> build the thing come to about $75.

>

> Anyway, I need to catch up on the first 800+ postings in this

young

> group; quite an accomplishment I might add.

>

> In the meantime, I love helping others to make tempeh and I would

be

> pleased to offer any assistance whatsoever. If anyone is

interested,

> I could post pictures of the above-mentioned tempeh device.

>

> Thanks,

>

December 10, 2004

Ken,

Since tempeh, by definition, starts off with *cooked* dehulled

soybeans, I don't think it would apply as a raw food anyway.

Furthermore, if the tempeh is not blanched [to kill the mold] after

incubating, it will either turn gray to black, or go bad as the mold

coninues to grow exothermically unchecked.

All in all, tempeh doesn't look like a good candidate for a raw food

diet.

*********

>

> ,

>

> Can tempeh be eaten raw without ill effect?

>

> I am experimenting with a raw food vegan diet and wish to

> incorporate cultured foods into my diet. I am particularly

> interested in those cultured foods which are said to contain

vitimin

> b-12. I've read tempeh contains this vitimin.

>

> So, not only am I interested in making tempeh per your technique,

> but I'd like to know if the tempeh made can be eaten raw?

>

> Regards,

> Ken

>

December 10, 2004

,

I did not accurately convey what I wanted to know - my apologies.

After the tempeh making process is completed and the final product

looks like your pictures #3 & #4, can that product then be eaten " as

is " without ill effect?

Ken

> >

> > ,

> >

> > Can tempeh be eaten raw without ill effect?

> >

> > I am experimenting with a raw food vegan diet and wish to

> > incorporate cultured foods into my diet. I am particularly

> > interested in those cultured foods which are said to contain

> vitimin

> > b-12. I've read tempeh contains this vitimin.

> >

> > So, not only am I interested in making tempeh per your

technique,

> > but I'd like to know if the tempeh made can be eaten raw?

> >

> > Regards,

> > Ken

> >

December 10, 2004

Ken,

Sure. That's the beauty of the innoculation with a known safe edible

mold, the nasty airborne competitors are kept away.

HOWEVER,...it doesn't sound very appetizing to me, to eat tempeh raw.

Your call.

>

> ,

>

> I did not accurately convey what I wanted to know - my apologies.

>

> After the tempeh making process is completed and the final product

> looks like your pictures #3 & #4, can that product then be

eaten " as

> is " without ill effect?

>

> Ken

>

December 13, 2004

,

Thanks for your inspiring photos! You will no doubt achieve folk-hero

status in the emerging global, uh, subculture of post-modern artisanal

fermenters....

A technical question springs to mind as my imagination wanders into

potential extrapolations of your innovation to other fermenting

situations.... What range of temperatures can you achieve, and how

precisely can you achieve a given temperature?

Just think, someday you might be able to walk into a Walmart type

store and buy all manner of differently colored and designed

fermentation " cabinets " (or " vessels " or something) with digital

temperature dials and the whole bit alongside the arrays of toaster

ovens, crockpots, blenders, etc so familiar today. (Hmm, maybe they

will occupy the shelf space left empty when microwaves disappear from

the marketplace??) I can imagine the bright fonts on the boxes

touting their versatility-- " great for EM! great for natto! great for

tempeh! great for yogurt! All-in-one design! " . The technology is

trivial at an industrial level; it's all about demand, and that is a

matter of social transformation, the roots of which we may be casually

embodying at this moment in time...

Traces of my gadget-geek destined-to-be-an-engineer* childhood surface

as I confront my " gotta have one of those things " feelings about your

thingy... :-)

*the path inexplicably shot off in an inexplicable direction... Don't

ask... :-)

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

December 15, 2004

Mike,

Apparently we share a common geek-leaning childhood. Thanks for the

kind words on the el-cheapo home-built fermenter/incubator. It really

does work very reliably. If you assume that it is placed in a rooom-

temperature [68 deg F] room, the unit can maintain a settable temp

range of 68 to 100 deg F to within +/- 2 deg F. Good enough for most

fermentation of interest to this group.

Now, this is the home-built el-cheapo unit. I am working on a cheap,

airflow-type, commercial incubator...first proto sometime next year.

After much success last night loading Crossover then MS Visio on my

Linux machine last, I am now even more confident that I can get a

good construction manual for the el-cheapo unit done over the next

week. I'll upload here, and do my best to identify price and sources

for all materials. But as I recall, I got everything at Walmart,

Petco and Home Depot.

**************

> ,

> Thanks for your inspiring photos! You will no doubt achieve folk-

hero

> status in the emerging global, uh, subculture of post-modern

artisanal

> fermenters....

>

> A technical question springs to mind as my imagination wanders into

> potential extrapolations of your innovation to other fermenting

> situations.... What range of temperatures can you achieve, and how

> precisely can you achieve a given temperature?

>

> Just think, someday you might be able to walk into a Walmart type

> store and buy all manner of differently colored and designed

> fermentation " cabinets " (or " vessels " or something) with digital

> temperature dials and the whole bit alongside the arrays of toaster

> ovens, crockpots, blenders, etc so familiar today. (Hmm, maybe they

> will occupy the shelf space left empty when microwaves disappear

from

> the marketplace??) I can imagine the bright fonts on the boxes

> touting their versatility-- " great for EM! great for natto! great

for

> tempeh! great for yogurt! All-in-one design! " . The technology is

> trivial at an industrial level; it's all about demand, and that is a

> matter of social transformation, the roots of which we may be

casually

> embodying at this moment in time...

>

> Traces of my gadget-geek destined-to-be-an-engineer* childhood

surface

> as I confront my " gotta have one of those things " feelings about

your

> thingy... :-)

>

> *the path inexplicably shot off in an inexplicable direction...

Don't

> ask... :-)

>

> Mike

> SE Pennsylvania

>

> The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

December 15, 2004

Thank you for the el cheapo incubator ideas and pics. I use a couple of similar

methods. 1. I have two 48 qt coolers with a 25 watt lightbulb on the bottom

under a piece of black plastic tray (rectangular from plant nurseries) insulated

by a few layers of cardboard to protect the plastic. This maintains around

100-120F depending on the specific bulb and cracking open the top of the cooler.

I tried it with a 15 watt bulb but only got about 80-90F at best. Not enough for

EM. (120F is too hot for my taste. I prefer about 100-110F)

2. I have an old pilot lit gas stove which I take advantage of by doing the

water bath in two 5 gal pots with plastic garbage bags over them. This maintains

about 88F, which is about the lowest I'll go with EM. With these I currently

have about 11 gal of EM brews going, mostly in 1 or 2 liter PETE plastic

bottles, at various stages of brewing. Glass is not recommended for EM brewing

since they tend to explode from the pressure build up, unless you use a large

vessel with a good U-type airlock. I don't yet have a large enough el cheapo

incubator to accomodate such a large bottle. I'd love to find an old broken

freezer chest and use a couple of light bulbs or other creative el cheapo

heating method.

Any other ideas would be welcome. Please.

Tonio

Mike,

Apparently we share a common geek-leaning childhood. Thanks for the

kind words on the el-cheapo home-built fermenter/incubator. It really

does work very reliably. If you assume that it is placed in a rooom-

temperature [68 deg F] room, the unit can maintain a settable temp

range of 68 to 100 deg F to within +/- 2 deg F. Good enough for most

fermentation of interest to this group.

Now, this is the home-built el-cheapo unit. I am working on a cheap,

airflow-type, commercial incubator...first proto sometime next year.

After much success last night loading Crossover then MS Visio on my

Linux machine last, I am now even more confident that I can get a

good construction manual for the el-cheapo unit done over the next

week. I'll upload here, and do my best to identify price and sources

for all materials. But as I recall, I got everything at Walmart,

Petco and Home Depot.

December 16, 2004

Hi Tonio,

I have tried " free air " methods such as the ones you describe, and

there is just way too much fluctuation for things like tempeh and

Koji. Probably fine if you're just going for a realatively warmer

environment, but even with a dimmer switch attached to the heat mat in

my cooler, I could not maintain a steady temp for the required 24 hrs

in the tempeh making process

The water bath method described by , is actually (I know you know

the most reliable method used in commercial tempeh

production.

But I realize you are trying to incubate EM... What about a short

garbage can or other large storage container that you could fit a 5 or

6 gallon plastic brew bucket into. Secure the bucket on a stand or

rack in the container, then fill the container with water so the the

bucket is almost entirely submersed.

Wrap the outside of the outer container with insulation and secure.

Use an immersion heater with a thermostat to heat the water,

effectively incubating the contents of the inner bucket.

These brew buckets are available with sealing lids that an airlock

(bubbler) can be fitted into..

You would need to brew realitvely large batches of each type of brew,

and have large botting sessions though, or just store in the bucket

and use as needed I guess..

I'm just another geek with a gadget fetish, thermostats and led's

excite me...But my low tech pickling crock is where I find peace, all

I have to do is find a " cool place " .

Take Care,

Beau

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:45:15 -0500, tonio epstein <tonio@...> wrote:

>

> Thank you for the el cheapo incubator ideas and pics. I use a couple of

similar methods. 1. I have two 48 qt coolers with a 25 watt lightbulb on the

bottom under a piece of black plastic tray (rectangular from plant nurseries)

insulated by a few layers of cardboard to protect the plastic. This maintains

around 100-120F depending on the specific bulb and cracking open the top of the

cooler. I tried it with a 15 watt bulb but only got about 80-90F at best. Not

enough for EM. (120F is too hot for my taste. I prefer about 100-110F)

> 2. I have an old pilot lit gas stove which I take advantage of by doing the