Re: dealing with objectification of body

August 13, 2010

Hi - Your post is a perfect example of...just because someone is a doctor...or highly educated...doesn't mean they aren't a MORON. I actually had a doctor tell me once (regarding my x-ray of my back) "I've never seen a LIVE patient like you before. I've only seen films like yours in the text books". Then they get that Dr. enstein glimmer in their eye..,.you can tell they want to TRY & FIX you. Just about that time, I make a bee-line for the door. When I walked into my pain management doc's office, he had never seen anyone with flatback...let alone someone who was as disfigured as I am. The next doc I am seeing has seen MANY like me. Thank God ...no explaining for a change & no unnecessary poking & prodding & pointless suggestions. I wish I could say it doesn't happen

anymore. At least now, you have a place to vent... & to people who have been through many of the same experences as you have. I hope your next doctor visit goes well. Sincerely...........................Kathy

From: mesanorthwest <mesanorthwest@...>Subject: [ ] dealing with objectification of body Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 8:43 PM

Hi, Everyone. This is a new topic. In (finally) gearing up for my first visit to a specialist since I had my Harrington rod surgery nearly 30 years ago, some of the inner steps I am walking through to prepare have to do with my highly unpleasant memories of feeling deeply "objectified" by doctors, interns, etc. as I was going through my first surgery. Examples: as a 12 and 13-year old, having to walk through a room, bend every which way in a hospital gown, and listen to the offhand comments of a room full of doctors and interns (it was a teaching hospital). Also, when being fitted with my brace, hearing the technicians - after taking my measurements, say "get the top one in shape and we'll send you off to be Miss America". Granted, these things probably don't happen often, and things (hopefully) have progressed in the past 30 years. But, honestly I feel somewhat traumatized by these experiences, even to the point of being

known as "the worst S curve we have ever seen" at the hospital where I had my surgery. It was (and is still, in my memory) like being defined by my scoliosis, and not even having a chance to be experienced as a whole person. I know this is a deeper question than we usually deal with on this list, but I'm just hoping for a bit of support, in that the people in my life who haven't dealt with years of medical treatment have no idea what this is like. Thanks for listening!

August 14, 2010

Hi -

You've brought up memories that I thought were gone. I too had to walk in my

panties in front of many doctors before I had my first harrington rod surgery at

14. That was almost 50 years ago but I was so embarrassed! That was just one

of many embarrassing situations I have endured. About 5 years ago, I went for a

cat scan at a local hospital. All the technicians gathered around the cat scan

images and then myself as they couldn't believe I could stand let alone walk

with my spine. I just tell myself, " Oh well, that just goes to show how

uneducated they are. " I wonder what they would say now with all the hardware in

there! Your right, when you go to revision specialists, your common! I think

that is why so many of us are type A personality and are so head strong.

Elaine

>

> Hi, Everyone.

>

> This is a new topic. In (finally) gearing up for my first visit to a

specialist since I had my Harrington rod surgery nearly 30 years ago, some of

the inner steps I am walking through to prepare have to do with my highly

unpleasant memories of feeling deeply " objectified " by doctors, interns, etc. as

I was going through my first surgery.

>

> Examples: as a 12 and 13-year old, having to walk through a room, bend every

which way in a hospital gown, and listen to the offhand comments of a room full

of doctors and interns (it was a teaching hospital). Also, when being fitted

with my brace, hearing the technicians - after taking my measurements, say " get

the top one in shape and we'll send you off to be Miss America " .

>

> Granted, these things probably don't happen often, and things (hopefully) have

progressed in the past 30 years. But, honestly I feel somewhat traumatized by

these experiences, even to the point of being known as " the worst S curve we

have ever seen " at the hospital where I had my surgery. It was (and is still,

in my memory) like being defined by my scoliosis, and not even having a chance

to be experienced as a whole person.

>

> I know this is a deeper question than we usually deal with on this list, but

I'm just hoping for a bit of support, in that the people in my life who haven't

dealt with years of medical treatment have no idea what this is like.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

August 14, 2010

Hi ,I can concur with what you are saying. Elaine, you have made some very true statements. I like the one about "Your right, when you go to revision specialists, your common". It doesnt have tobe that way. I was a child the first time around. This fourth time around I am in my mid-30s. I will not be objectified. I won't deal with Residents and trainees. I will demand tobe treated with dignity and respect. I am very private and I don't want the world knowing my business. Even in physiotherapy clinics, i will allow no one to treat me, or touch meexcept my regular P.T. I guess after all these years, I am tired of being objectified and I won't settle for it. Yes, they may label me as difficult and a control freak, but I don'tcare. At the end of the day, it my life, my emotional well

being, and I won't apologize for that. They go home and forget all about their "all in a days work" while we are leftto struggle with the emotional issues. Scoliosis is also an emotional disease (feelings of shame, inadequate feelings, self conscious feelings and by the time we get to these people some of us are down right depressed). So, I may be a difficult patient in all of this (my P.T. already said I was a control freak) but too bad. I am in control of my life and myhealth and that is that! They are very highly paid professionals (don't forget that) and sometimes, we just don't demand enough from them.Have a great day. Maggie. From: badback48 <ebwilkie@...> Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 9:48:09 AMSubject: [ ] Re: dealing with objectification of body

Hi -

You've brought up memories that I thought were gone. I too had to walk in my panties in front of many doctors before I had my first harrington rod surgery at 14. That was almost 50 years ago but I was so embarrassed! That was just one of many embarrassing situations I have endured. About 5 years ago, I went for a cat scan at a local hospital. All the technicians gathered around the cat scan images and then myself as they couldn't believe I could stand let alone walk with my spine. I just tell myself, "Oh well, that just goes to show how uneducated they are." I wonder what they would say now with all the hardware in there! Your right, when you go to revision specialists, your common! I think that is why so many of us are type A personality and are so head strong. Elaine

>

> Hi, Everyone.

>

> This is a new topic. In (finally) gearing up for my first visit to a specialist since I had my Harrington rod surgery nearly 30 years ago, some of the inner steps I am walking through to prepare have to do with my highly unpleasant memories of feeling deeply "objectified" by doctors, interns, etc. as I was going through my first surgery.

>

> Examples: as a 12 and 13-year old, having to walk through a room, bend every which way in a hospital gown, and listen to the offhand comments of a room full of doctors and interns (it was a teaching hospital). Also, when being fitted with my brace, hearing the technicians - after taking my measurements, say "get the top one in shape and we'll send you off to be Miss America".

>

> Granted, these things probably don't happen often, and things (hopefully) have progressed in the past 30 years. But, honestly I feel somewhat traumatized by these experiences, even to the point of being known as "the worst S curve we have ever seen" at the hospital where I had my surgery. It was (and is still, in my memory) like being defined by my scoliosis, and not even having a chance to be experienced as a whole person.

>

> I know this is a deeper question than we usually deal with on this list, but I'm just hoping for a bit of support, in that the people in my life who haven't dealt with years of medical treatment have no idea what this is like.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

August 14, 2010

,

I know exactly what you mean. When I was going through the process of being diagnosed with scoliosis nearly 35 years ago, I can recall being told by one orthopedic doctor that, "...she isn't going to be in any beauty contests, so she doesn't need surgery." I can also recall wearing that dang gown and having to bend over and be talked about as if I wasn't there. At one point, my doctor put his hand right on my breast and left it there. I stopped breathing and didn't know what to do. I do think it was accidental, but I always wondered why he didn't move his hand immediately once he realized it was in a place it shouldn't have been.

I was also tormented by a male nurse when I was in the hospital just prior to surgery. He would stand in the hallway outside my room and just stare at me. I was so uncomfortable I would get up and close the door on him. He wasn't assigned to me until my last two days on the circuit bed. When I realized he would be my nurse I was very upset and told my mom who went to the nurses station and requested someone else be assigned to me. They very kindly made the change but later that day when I had to call for help as I had a b.m. and needed to be cleaned up - he came by and said that if I hadn't complained about him I would be cleaned up by now. I just stared at him. I was shocked and embarrassed that he would be that way.

Since then I have become quite an advocate for myself and my family members when it comes to the medical community. I don't take ANY nonsense from anyone. What I went through was minor compared to some stories I have read here, but it is shameful what some people in the medical community used to do to children.

Jeanne

[ ] dealing with objectification of body

Hi, Everyone. This is a new topic. In (finally) gearing up for my first visit to a specialist since I had my Harrington rod surgery nearly 30 years ago, some of the inner steps I am walking through to prepare have to do with my highly unpleasant memories of feeling deeply "objectified" by doctors, interns, etc. as I was going through my first surgery. Examples: as a 12 and 13-year old, having to walk through a room, bend every which way in a hospital gown, and listen to the offhand comments of a room full of doctors and interns (it was a teaching hospital). Also, when being fitted with my brace, hearing the technicians - after taking my measurements, say "get the top one in shape and we'll send you off to be Miss America". Granted, these things probably don't happen often, and things (hopefully) have progressed in the past 30 years. But, honestly I feel somewhat traumatized by these experiences, even to the point of being known as "the worst S curve we have ever seen" at the hospital where I had my surgery. It was (and is still, in my memory) like being defined by my scoliosis, and not even having a chance to be experienced as a whole person. I know this is a deeper question than we usually deal with on this list, but I'm just hoping for a bit of support, in that the people in my life who haven't dealt with years of medical treatment have no idea what this is like. Thanks for listening!

August 14, 2010

Jeanne, I must say I feel a little bit disgusted by that doctors actions... this has left scars for you! We are not meat! We are human beings. My daughter has scoli. and I guard her privacy and her feelings when in the company of all those involved in her case! She is permitted to say "NO" too when I don't pick up on her cues! I refused last time to deal with a resident (after waiting 3 hours for the surgeon)... She quickly went to the the surgeon. I will not allow the emotional trauma that the treatment of this disease brings to us as young girls to be cast upon my daughter.. .I have horror stories too!! I remember and my daughter won't be put through the same thing!Maggie. From: Slinker <slinkers5@...> Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 12:03:07 PMSubject: Re: [ ] dealing with objectification of body

,

I know exactly what you mean. When I was going through the process of being diagnosed with scoliosis nearly 35 years ago, I can recall being told by one orthopedic doctor that, "...she isn't going to be in any beauty contests, so she doesn't need surgery." I can also recall wearing that dang gown and having to bend over and be talked about as if I wasn't there. At one point, my doctor put his hand right on my breast and left it there. I stopped breathing and didn't know what to do. I do think it was accidental, but I always wondered why he didn't move his hand immediately once he realized it was in a place it shouldn't have been.

I was also tormented by a male nurse when I was in the hospital just prior to surgery. He would stand in the hallway outside my room and just stare at me. I was so uncomfortable I would get up and close the door on him. He wasn't assigned to me until my last two days on the circuit bed. When I realized he would be my nurse I was very upset and told my mom who went to the nurses station and requested someone else be assigned to me. They very kindly made the change but later that day when I had to call for help as I had a b.m. and needed to be cleaned up - he came by and said that if I hadn't complained about him I would be cleaned up by now. I just stared at him. I was shocked and embarrassed that he would be that way.

Since then I have become quite an advocate for myself and my family members when it comes to the medical community. I don't take ANY nonsense from anyone. What I went through was minor compared to some stories I have read here, but it is shameful what some people in the medical community used to do to children.

Jeanne

[ ] dealing with objectification of body

Hi, Everyone. This is a new topic. In (finally) gearing up for my first visit to a specialist since I had my Harrington rod surgery nearly 30 years ago, some of the inner steps I am walking through to prepare have to do with my highly unpleasant memories of feeling deeply "objectified" by doctors, interns, etc. as I was going through my first surgery. Examples: as a 12 and 13-year old, having to walk through a room, bend every which way in a hospital gown, and listen to the offhand comments of a room full of doctors and interns (it was a teaching hospital). Also, when being fitted with my brace, hearing the technicians - after taking my measurements, say "get the top one in shape and we'll send you off to be Miss America". Granted, these things probably don't happen often, and things (hopefully) have progressed in the past 30 years. But, honestly I feel somewhat traumatized by these experiences, even to the point of being known as "the worst S curve we have ever seen" at the hospital where I had my surgery. It was (and is still, in my memory) like being defined by my scoliosis, and not even having a chance to be experienced as a whole person. I know this is a deeper question than we usually deal with on this list, but I'm just hoping for a bit of support, in that the people in my life who haven't dealt with years of medical treatment have no idea what this is like. Thanks for listening!

August 14, 2010

Hi ...

While I might think of myself as special after some of those comments ;-), I

totally understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, because of the nature of

your condition, it's likely that you'll be treated by a specialist who has a

team of residents, fellows, and visiting doctors. I work in a spine center

where we routinely have surgeons visiting from all over the world. This year,

we have a total of 7 fellows (plus the normal variety of residents) for 5

surgeons. It's not uncommon for our patients to be seen first by a student,

resident, and/or fellow, and then the student, resident, and/or fellow returns

with the surgeon and an entourage of visiting medical professionals. Sometimes

the exam rooms are so crowded it looks like a puzzle whenever someone needs to

move.

I think that if you make it known that you do not want to be made to feel like

something on display, the surgeon will work toward making you feel more

comfortable.

Good luck with your treatment.

Regards,

>

> Hi, Everyone.

>

> This is a new topic. In (finally) gearing up for my first visit to a

specialist since I had my Harrington rod surgery nearly 30 years ago, some of

the inner steps I am walking through to prepare have to do with my highly

unpleasant memories of feeling deeply " objectified " by doctors, interns, etc. as

I was going through my first surgery.

>

> Examples: as a 12 and 13-year old, having to walk through a room, bend every

which way in a hospital gown, and listen to the offhand comments of a room full

of doctors and interns (it was a teaching hospital). Also, when being fitted

with my brace, hearing the technicians - after taking my measurements, say " get

the top one in shape and we'll send you off to be Miss America " .

>

> Granted, these things probably don't happen often, and things (hopefully) have

progressed in the past 30 years. But, honestly I feel somewhat traumatized by

these experiences, even to the point of being known as " the worst S curve we

have ever seen " at the hospital where I had my surgery. It was (and is still,

in my memory) like being defined by my scoliosis, and not even having a chance

to be experienced as a whole person.

>

> I know this is a deeper question than we usually deal with on this list, but

I'm just hoping for a bit of support, in that the people in my life who haven't

dealt with years of medical treatment have no idea what this is like.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

August 14, 2010

Hi ,Does anyone ask the patient if it is okay. I would and will object to being seen by a trainee, or foreign trained doctor.. I don't know why the medical community thinks it is okayto do this as a normal practice. Here in Canada, they don't even introduce themselves as trainees or residents. It is difficult enough to have this disease but then to subject usto trainees and the entourage makes it all the more difficult.Maggie. From:

<linda.racine@...> Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 3:10:07 PMSubject: [ ] Re: dealing with objectification of body

Hi ...

While I might think of myself as special after some of those comments ;-), I totally understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, because of the nature of your condition, it's likely that you'll be treated by a specialist who has a team of residents, fellows, and visiting doctors. I work in a spine center where we routinely have surgeons visiting from all over the world. This year, we have a total of 7 fellows (plus the normal variety of residents) for 5 surgeons. It's not uncommon for our patients to be seen first by a student, resident, and/or fellow, and then the student, resident, and/or fellow returns with the surgeon and an entourage of visiting medical professionals. Sometimes the exam rooms are so crowded it looks like a puzzle whenever someone needs to move.

I think that if you make it known that you do not want to be made to feel like something on display, the surgeon will work toward making you feel more comfortable.

Good luck with your treatment.

Regards,

>

> Hi, Everyone.

>

> This is a new topic. In (finally) gearing up for my first visit to a specialist since I had my Harrington rod surgery nearly 30 years ago, some of the inner steps I am walking through to prepare have to do with my highly unpleasant memories of feeling deeply "objectified" by doctors, interns, etc. as I was going through my first surgery.

>

> Examples: as a 12 and 13-year old, having to walk through a room, bend every which way in a hospital gown, and listen to the offhand comments of a room full of doctors and interns (it was a teaching hospital). Also, when being fitted with my brace, hearing the technicians - after taking my measurements, say "get the top one in shape and we'll send you off to be Miss America".

>

> Granted, these things probably don't happen often, and things (hopefully) have progressed in the past 30 years. But, honestly I feel somewhat traumatized by these experiences, even to the point of being known as "the worst S curve we have ever seen" at the hospital where I had my surgery. It was (and is still, in my memory) like being defined by my scoliosis, and not even having a chance to be experienced as a whole person.

>

> I know this is a deeper question than we usually deal with on this list, but I'm just hoping for a bit of support, in that the people in my life who haven't dealt with years of medical treatment have no idea what this is like.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

August 14, 2010

Hi Maggie...

While I respect your right to not be made to feel objectified, I feel it's

unreasonable to ask that you not be seen by " residents and trainees " , at least

in teaching institutions. How can we want more doctors who are trained in

things like flatback if we don't let them participate in our care?

Also, at least at our institution, we'd be able to see probably 25% of the

patients we see if we didn't have professionals other than attending surgeons

doing histories and updates.

Regards,

>

I won't deal with Residents and

> trainees. I will demand to

> be treated with dignity and respect.

August 14, 2010

I think we (the medical community) could all be better about clearing things

with patients. With that said, as I said in my left message, I feel that using

professionals in addition to attending doctors is important. If we don't, the

whole system would quickly come to a halt.

--

>

> Hi ,

> Does anyone ask the patient if it is okay. I would and will object to being

seen

> by a trainee, or foreign trained doctor.. I don't know why the medical

community

> thinks it is okay

> to do this as a normal practice. Here in Canada, they don't even introduce

> themselves as trainees or residents. It is difficult enough to have this

disease

> but then to subject us

> to trainees and the entourage makes it all the more difficult.

> Maggie.

>

August 15, 2010

Yup That doesn't change the fact that the daily care of patients is up to

residents, who make the decisions unless they feel something is beyond their

capability. It's residents who do things like decide when the patients are

ready for release.

--

>

> Hi ,

>

> I just want to point out that whatever residents do in a teaching

> hospital they do under the supervision of an attending physician.

>

> Bonnie

>

August 15, 2010

Well said Bonnie.

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> Hospital policies and procedures can be moronic and some doctors and

> other hospital staff can be unfeeling and treat us terribly as has

> been described here. I went through it, too. But, I have learned a

> valuable life lesson recently (at 69, it took me long enough) that may

> help some of you deal with the bad feelings. Please bear with me as I

> try to get the correct wording. It goes something like this: What's

> important is not what happens to you in life, it's how you deal with

> it that matters. I am not saying you should suck it up. I'm not

> saying you should forget about, either. I am saying that you should

> acknowledge your feelings, of course, but then, somehow, make the bad

> situation work for you. Learn how not to be a victim. Don't let

> stupid people stop you from doing what you want or need to do. Get

> help, if needed, if the past is negatively effecting your ability to

> get the proper help you need now. Realize that the hospital staff,

> though unfeeling, were not out to hurt you. Make use of every

> opportunity to educate them, and others. Instead of concentrating on

> how awful the personnel and procedures were, make sure you get the

> proper care and treatment this time. I don't mean to talk in

> platitudes and I'm not saying any of this is easy. But to get on with

> life and be happy, I think you need to find a way to let go. Don't

> hurt yourself by letting your past poor treatment get in your way.

>

> Bonnie

>

August 15, 2010

Bonnie, I enjoyed reading this. Thank You..."Procedures can be moronic and some doctors and other hospital staff can be unfeeling and treat us terribly as has been described here". Why are we as patients in general not holding these people accountable. They are highly trainedprofessionals, highly paid professionals with a moral calling in life. Why is the patient responsible for processing and acceptingthis. Why is there no process for change. It is the same thing year after year after year, and nothing changes becausewe all go away and say nothing and it continues to happen. I just don't understand why medical professionals are exempt from accountability and we just go away, feel bad for a while and accept that this is how it is. I am a professional in a highly

specialized career. I can not treat my clients with nothing but respect, and treat them terribly or I would not be in business. I can't show up 3 hours late without explanation, I can't put untrained people in front of myclients etc. etc. I am just trying to make sense of why the Medical field is exempt from being 100 percent all the time as other professions are expected. Yes, my job is demanding and I am expected to work 72 hours straight at times for major implementations and I do... but I don't dare treat anyone terribly or I wouldn't work...I don't expect you ladies to have the answers, I am trying to foster dialog to increase awareness that I think we alldeserve much better than we are getting. We deserve that. Everyone one is at a very vulnerable place and it is not an optionit is absolutely mandatory that care be second to none. If we accept sub standard or less than that is all we will everhave.....

my thoughts.. and my confusion I guess... I just don't get why they as professionals are so much different thanthe rest of us out there... From: <linda.racine@...> Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 12:03:22 AMSubject: [ ] Re: dealing with objectification of body