Guest guest Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 i want surgery to be the last thing i have to do. i am going to pain management now and so far it is working i still have bad days, i have ddd it is in my neck and one place in the middle of my back. i have read and talked with people who have had the surgery and most are in more pain and more drugs than before. i just pray every day to give me the strength to get thur this day. i was wondering if anyone has try the pain management thing and what their thought of it was. dawne --- Lawler <llerweatherman@...> wrote: > HI all, > > I see there are several folks talking about having > surgery- cheeeech! > it scares me. Here is a place to read about > surgery. It is a little > long, but well worth the time to read it. > > > http:/www.newyorker.com/printables/fact/020406fa_FACT > > I hope this helps! > > GBY > > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 That link didn't work in my browser, . Heh, what really scares me is 'professionals' and their insurance driven decision process I still haven't decided on surgery. It was looking like the decision was going to be made for me there for awhile though! I found myself caught between the HMO expecting Worker's Comp to pay and 'WC' demanding my HMO pay. Both wanted the other to operate so the other would no longer be accountable. Its enough to convince me tho, neither would want surgery for themselves > assuming there's a human in there somewhere! I'd like to find some honest facts on disk surgery sucess rates - perhaps I'll get through to the link you provided if I hack at it a while. My guess is that back surgery is likely to require repeat operations every five years or so; as long as none of them end up botched as they often do. Of course these are my opinions - anyone needing surgery, god bless you please. Jay " Lawler " wrote: > > HI all, > > I see there are several folks talking about having surgery- cheeeech! > it scares me. Here is a place to read about surgery. It is a little > long, but well worth the time to read it. > > > http:/www.newyorker.com/printables/fact/020406fa_FACT > > I hope this helps! > > GBY > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Hi Jay, Keep trying! I just checked my address and it is correct. Basically, it is an article interviewing a doc or two telling about the horrors of surgery and encouraging folks to seek other help if at all feaseable. One thing to kep in mind, the 'type' of doc you see determines the treatment recommended! A surgeon advises surgery..... GBY > > That link didn't work in my browser, . Heh, what really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 At 11:12 AM 1/16/2006, you wrote: >Keep trying! I just checked my address and it is correct. >Basically, it is an article interviewing a doc or two telling about >the horrors of surgery and encouraging folks to seek other help if at >all feaseable. > >One thing to kep in mind, the 'type' of doc you see determines the >treatment recommended! A surgeon advises surgery..... , I know you have your own personal vendetta against surgeons and surgery without ever having had surgery on your back, but for many of us, surgery has been a godsend. Of course, it's not the be-all and end-all and is not indicated for everyone, but I think you do readers here a disservice by panning back surgery whenever you get the chance. Many people who have had successful back surgeries are no longer here posting because they are well enough not to be. Alternately, many people who have not had surgery when maybe it would have helped them tremendously are still here posting. What does that tell you? , who stays to help and lend an alternative to the anti-surgery brigade. http://thebacklog.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 " Keep trying! I just checked my address and it is correct. Basically, it is an article interviewing a doc or two telling about the horrors of surgery and encouraging folks to seek other help if at all feaseable. " " One thing to kep in mind, the 'type' of doc you see determines the treatment recommended! A surgeon advises surgery..... " , I know you have your own personal vendetta against surgeons and surgery without ever having had surgery on your back, but for many of us, surgery has been a godsend. Of course, it's not the be- all and end-all and is not indicated for everyone, but I think you do readers here a disservice by panning back surgery whenever you get the chance. Many people who have had successful back surgeries are no longer here posting because they are well enough not to be. Alternately, many people who have not had surgery when maybe it would have helped them tremendously are still here posting. What does that tell you? , who stays to help and lend an alternative to the anti-surgery brigade. http://thebacklog.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 jaytee110180 wrote: >That link didn't work in my browser, . Heh, what really scares me >is 'professionals' and their insurance driven decision process > >I still haven't decided on surgery. It was looking like the decision >was going to be made for me there for awhile though! I found myself >caught between the HMO expecting Worker's Comp to pay and 'WC' >demanding my HMO pay. Both wanted the other to operate so the other >would no longer be accountable. Its enough to convince me tho, neither >would want surgery for themselves > assuming there's a human in >there somewhere! > >I'd like to find some honest facts on disk surgery sucess rates - >perhaps I'll get through to the link you provided if I hack at it a >while. My guess is that back surgery is likely to require repeat >operations every five years or so; as long as none of them end up >botched as they often do. > >Of course these are my opinions - anyone needing surgery, god bless you >please. > > > > > > > > > well one thing I do know. More and more it seems the docs are acting as if we are not their clients. WE ARE PAYING THEM! I dont care if it comes out of my paycheck, goes to the insurance company and then to the doc. We must not let them act like we are some third party and the primary parties involved are the docs and insurance companies. My last visit to the doc he talked like " Ok, your not getting better and so now I'm going to operate " . He's gonna be a bit suprised when I tell him he's not. Another example I had was when I cancelled my 3rd stereod injection because I woke up one morning feeling alot better and wanted to see how it played out. Three days later I ended up rescheduling. They said something like " OK, but this is the last time we're gonna let you pull that " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Hi , Your point is well taken! I have had three surgeries. All were successful- no complications and fast, easy recoveries. Two were necessary, one was voluntary. All have left their mark in scars and residual pain, one had absolutely no effect- the problem persists to this day. I personally know 14 people who have had various back surgeries that were technically successful. All these people are in pain- some more so than pre-surgery. Two of these people can no longer 'function in the bedroom'. These people suffer in silence. They see no recourse in challenging the medical community (how do you get a doctor to testify against another doctor). These people have had their lives changed permanantly- for the worse. (Perhaps there are a few folks who used to post here but are now too dispirited to do so?) Just to keep this 'in balance', I also personally know five people who have had back surgeries and are are doing great in every respect. I see this as heartening and encouraging. I feel a need to do what I can to 'encourage' folks to seek help until nothing is left but surgery. All of us just want the pain to stop. When we get worn-out, desperate, and ready to jump at anything that looks promising- that's when we are vulnerable. That's just when we need to hear a word of caution. That's when we need to have a doc who cares about us enough to help us through the rough times and not cave-in. GBY Of course, it's not the be-all and end-all and > is not indicated for everyone, but I think you do readers here a disservice by panning back surgery whenever you get the chance. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Hi Jay, That doctor-patient thing can get a little hairy sometimes. It is very important to establish a 'team' approach with your doc. You are both in the decision-making process. He is the one with the technical knowledge and access to indicated meds and specialists. You are the one with the info on how various meds/procedures are working. Your doc may have had great success with certain meds/procedures with other patients and you are the first that does not respond 'as planned'. It gets frustrating for both of you. Also, try to remember your doc needs to seperate out patients who are just shopping for dugs, looking for attention, or desperately want surgery. These folks go from doctor to doctor, clinic to clinic- just shopping around for what they want. It is a very delicate matter to sort through all this, and it takes time. It gets ugly when the patient is truly in pain. I used to belong to an HMO. That is a particularly unique thing to deal with. Be strong! Be persistant! Be sure to make your doc part of your team. GBY Three days later I ended up rescheduling. They said > something like " OK, but this is the last time we're gonna let you pull > that " . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 At 03:27 PM 1/16/2006, wrote: >I feel a need to do what I can to 'encourage' folks to seek help >until nothing is left but surgery. All of us just want the pain to >stop. When we get worn-out, desperate, and ready to jump at >anything that looks promising- that's when we are vulnerable. That's >just when we need to hear a word of caution. That's when we need to >have a doc who cares about us enough to help us through the rough >times and not cave-in. Who wants to have surgery, though? I think most of us *would* want to do anything other than have surgery on our backs. I know I did, and I tried everything until I was out of options. Luckily, I had a surgeon who left it up to me as far as surgery. He was wise enough to know I'd be scheduling with him when the right time came ... and it did, believe me. He's already told me I might need more surgery in the future and why. Not now, but someday. Once again, he didn't push. Yes, he's a surgeon, but he in no way is a solicitor of business. I think we're both saying the same thing, , and that is, take care of yourself as a patient. Find a spine specialist you trust, one who will help you and who has the qualifications you require. I don't put the responsibility on the doctor/surgeon, as you do, I place is squarely at the foot of the patient. These days, there's no excuse for not having all the needed information about personal health issues. Many good doctors know their patients are in front of computers, asking questions and looking up everything they have been told. Self-advocacy is a great thing. It keeps those surgeons you don't trust on their collective toes. http://thebacklog.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Good morning ! Yup! I think we are very much on 'the same page'! Perhaps, just maybe- I don't have as much trust in drs as you have GBY Many good doctors know > their patients are in front of computers, asking questions and looking up > everything they have been told. Self-advocacy is a great thing. It keeps > those surgeons you don't trust on their collective toes. > > > > http://thebacklog.blogspot.com/ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 At 06:51 AM 1/17/2006, you wrote: >Good morning ! > >Yup! I think we are very much on 'the same page'! Perhaps, just >maybe- I don't have as much trust in drs as you have > >GBY > I think that's true, about the " trust " thing with doctors. I've had some very good ones, and I think that's a huge part of why I'm a bit more optimistic. I have to add that I researched and asked a LOT of questions of health care professionals over the years. and I always advise preparedness for back pain sufferers. Maybe that's why I had good experiences. And now, for my second cup of morning coffee and my first round of pain meds <smile> http://thebacklog.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 and , I am a bit of a lurker- just wanted to say that I am very glad both of you are available to all of us. I am in the situation that I could have surgery-but being in my early 30's with multiple issues in my cervical, thoracic, and lumbar the path to surgery would/will most likely begin the journey of creating more instablity with each surgery which would mean more surgery. I have seen a number of Drs- who disagree or agree on the when and where- but I have made the choice to avoid surgery as long as possible. Yoga, pilates, massage, biofeedback, chiropractors, PT, accupunture, tens, traction, etc has not relieved my symptoms and now I am forced to use a mild pain medication. I can still care for my home, children- but don't see work being a very great experience and should I have to work I would most likely consider surgery. Each and everyone I have met with back issues seems to have very individualized approaches to their personal care- I am glad that both of your points of view and experiences are shared with all of us. <karens@...> wrote: At 06:51 AM 1/17/2006, you wrote: >Good morning ! > >Yup! I think we are very much on 'the same page'! Perhaps, just >maybe- I don't have as much trust in drs as you have > >GBY > I think that's true, about the " trust " thing with doctors. I've had some very good ones, and I think that's a huge part of why I'm a bit more optimistic. I have to add that I researched and asked a LOT of questions of health care professionals over the years. and I always advise preparedness for back pain sufferers. Maybe that's why I had good experiences. And now, for my second cup of morning coffee and my first round of pain meds <smile> http://thebacklog.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 At 10:22 AM 1/17/2006, you wrote: > Yoga, pilates, massage, biofeedback, chiropractors, PT, accupunture, > tens, traction, etc has not relieved my symptoms and now I am forced to > use a mild pain medication. I can still care for my home, children- but > don't see work being a very great experience and should I have to work I > would most likely consider surgery. Hi Diane and thanks for your kind words. I retired early from my civil service career with the state judiciary about two and a half years ago when I knew surgery was in the cards for me. I waited a year after retirement to have my surgery. It was a long and still on-going recovery and I don't know if I could have been able to handle it if I had to go right back to work. In fact, one of the things that's kept me upbeat and in a positive frame of mind is that I can do what I need to do at my own pace. There are days that I feel like a million bucks. Other days are about $3.75, if you know what I mean. Bear in mind, though, that I have additional problems with my back as a result of having the first surgery and because of DDD and a congenital structural problem with my lumbar spine. What you say is true. The road to feeling good with back pain is individual and really just trial and error sometimes. I'm starting to consider Pilates, yoga and massage as possible aids to feeling better. I've read about many people who have had results with them. Thanks again for bein' so nice. http://thebacklog.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Hi Diane, Thank you for your kind words! Thank you for sharing your 'story'- it helps all of us to know what others are doing to cope with pain. I do most of the same things you do- I haven't tried yoga yet. I just tried that Pilates thing- ouch!! I know how difficult it is to bang away at these sily machines when you are consumed with pain, and I remember the days of having children around. I say this to let you know how truly thankful I am for your message. I am humbled. GBY > > and , > > I am a bit of a lurker- just wanted to say that I am very glad both of you are available to all of us. > > I am in the situation that I could have surgery-but being in my early 30's with multiple issues in my cervical, thoracic, and lumbar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Thanks and - felt great to participate! I liked your little massage tool hint- My latest joy is one of those full body heat and massage pads- Downfall is that after awhile it can irrate my irritations :-) and the other down fall is that the heat doesn't get hot enough for my likings-but for a quick 15-20 minute laydown(thankgod for 15-20 minutes of lay down time :-) it is a nice treat. My other true pleasure is a good soak in the hot springs or a hot tub- for just a little while I can totally forget about my aching back! My family has learned to drag me to heated water whenever they can get a chance! Today is a rough day- have had my house on the market for sale- seems like I can hack it all for a fews days and then it adds up and I am worthless for a day or two.. I have found that my best treatment is just to try to stay as active as I can without causing more damage- sometimes a slow stroll when I have the aches and burns helps keep my mind off things.. -beware the yoga masters! I had one instructor that totally thought he was God and thought he was going to cure me- I earned two weeks of laying around in misery for that adventure! Find someone that will take it slow... I think the breathing exercises were the most beneficial and I still use um.. I am thankful everytime I hop online and find an email from this great support group- all of the folks on this group are full of hope and optimistic- no matter what treatment I use, plan to use and/or have used - I know that it works best when I feel good about it. Thanks everyone DIane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 , something you said about preparedness and doctor/patient communication has me thinking. I would inately expect to communicate well with the doctor because: 1) they're usually males (as I am) 2) they're trained in science as I too am - yet in reality it comes down to the complete opposite! Where the average person communicates non-verbally maybe 60% of the time, I think doctors must do it 99%; while requiring the patient do the same. Males are going to have more trouble then females anyway; but there are some [males] who communicate non-verbally less than 5% of the time if at all. For me, being prepared to visit the doctor only helps him or her finish sooner. Trust is beyond the question in this situation I think. Best of luck to you. Maybe 'best of skill' is more accurate JayTee wrote: > > > At 06:51 AM 1/17/2006, you wrote: > >Good morning ! > > > >Yup! I think we are very much on 'the same page'! Perhaps, just > >maybe- I don't have as much trust in drs as you have > > > >GBY > > > > > I think that's true, about the " trust " thing with doctors. I've had some > very good ones, and I think that's a huge part of why I'm a bit more > optimistic. I have to add that I researched and asked a LOT of questions > of health care professionals over the years. and I always advise > preparedness for back pain sufferers. Maybe that's why I had good experiences. > > And now, for my second cup of morning coffee and my first round of pain > meds <smile> > > > > > http://thebacklog.blogspot.com/ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Dave, almost forgot about your post. I started to reply and it got late. Decided to read it over the next morning then lost track of it - good thing actually. Maybe its just thread drift but my sense is: 's kind of talk, and likely what it leads to, my talk and your talk, probably isn't going to be appreciated here in any thread. The syrupy stuff never made me feel better. I was hoping to learn from the experiences from those here not see them chided and marched back into line. Never the less, what george and especially you said, motivated me to pick up a book I found at the thrift store the other day and read while I soaked. I'm guessing you could benefit by talking to those interested in solving problems, or discovering and relating ways of working around the system. I'm not trying to start a new group - just want to know if you know of any which accomplish this. I could probably talk about my spine issues, or the issues my spine has gotten me into just about as well anywhere like that. I need tangibles: like what does it mean when I have no reflex in my knee and neither my doctor nor the one he refers me to will mention of it in my record. Or why another doctor sent me back to work when I was injured injoining me to " get better or get worse " . Can I even quote what my doctor tells me, can I have a whitness present, can I record my doctor? Who can the patient appeal to besides an attorney. Instead I'm dab in the middle of " Perfect " where everyone is lucky, gifted in social graces, desireable, smart, highly esteemed, and condescending to boot of those not up to their level or ability. Enjoying the meds? About the book I found - by Ivan Illich, perhaps was one the world's leading anti-social, anti-Socialist, Socialists He says " To be ignorant or unconvinced of one's own needs has become the unforgivable antisocial act " . Good luck and beware, recognize your own need, especially online. JayTee dave sailer wrote: > > jaytee110180 wrote: > > >That link didn't work in my browser, . Heh, what really scares me > >is 'professionals' and their insurance driven decision process > > > >I still haven't decided on surgery. It was looking like the decision > >was going to be made for me there for awhile though! I found myself > >caught between the HMO expecting Worker's Comp to pay and 'WC' > >demanding my HMO pay. Both wanted the other to operate so the other > >would no longer be accountable. Its enough to convince me tho, neither > >would want surgery for themselves > assuming there's a human in > >there somewhere! > > > >I'd like to find some honest facts on disk surgery sucess rates - > >perhaps I'll get through to the link you provided if I hack at it a > >while. My guess is that back surgery is likely to require repeat > >operations every five years or so; as long as none of them end up > >botched as they often do. > > > >Of course these are my opinions - anyone needing surgery, god bless you > >please. > > > well one thing I do know. More and more it seems the docs are acting as > if we are not their clients. WE ARE PAYING THEM! I dont care if it comes > out of my paycheck, goes to the insurance company and then to the doc. > We must not let them act like we are some third party and the primary > parties involved are the docs and insurance companies. My last visit to > the doc he talked like " Ok, your not getting better and so now I'm going > to operate " . He's gonna be a bit suprised when I tell him he's not. > Another example I had was when I cancelled my 3rd stereod injection > because I woke up one morning feeling alot better and wanted to see how > it played out. Three days later I ended up rescheduling. They said > something like " OK, but this is the last time we're gonna let you pull > that " . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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