Shoulder and neck pain

December 6, 2001

Is it possible that you injured your shoulder? I was doing dips with

weight and hear a pop and my left shoulder hurt in approximately

the same area. I can to find out through my Chiro and study that the

long head of the biceps originates on the tuberule superior to the

glenoid cavity and passes thru a groove on the superior{top} end of

the humerus. When you injure the muscle or tendon in that area it

swells and " clicks " in the groove because when swollen it does not

pass thru the groove as it naturally should. I used ice and also--

take a small towel and roll it and place it under your left armpit as

far up as possible. have your girlfriend gently pull your left arm

across the body in front of the chest and behind the back. Keep the

arm semistaight and the movement should reseat the tissue thru the

groove and lay off the shoulder for a while.{sorry about the

imprecision of the anatomical terms.}

Charlie Newkerk

Rockledge, Fl

newkfit@...

> Here is a problem I have been having, hopefully someone can help.

I

> wake up in the morining and I have a pain somewhere where the

collar

> bone meets that shoulder on the left side of my body. I have tried

> massaging the area with no relief. Then my girlfriend found a spot

> around the middle of my back next to the shoulder blade that feels

> like a knot. When she massages it, I feel even more pain, but it

> does feel a little better. The pain sometimes radiates up into my

> neck and to the where the bicep connects to the bone around the

> armpit area. I sometimes feel a sort of numbness around my neck

and

> face from this. I noticed one day when I would do shoulder shrugs

> that the pain almost immediately disappears! I don't know why but

it

> feels better for a few days and then come back. I don't think it

has

> anything to do with a slipped disk or rotator cuff injury because

as

> I raise my arm above my head, it doesn't hurt any more or less. I

> think a nerve is being pinched by a muscle, but I don't want to go

on

> like this not knowing for sure. Is there some sort of stretch or

> message that can relieve the pinched nerve? Please help!

>

> Marco DiMichele

> Pennsville, NJ USA

December 7, 2001

Have you been to a doctor? That should be your first move..

Bob Forney

San Bruno, CA

>From: " priole2000 " <priole@...>

>Here is a problem I have been having, hopefully someone can help. I

>wake up in the morining and I have a pain somewhere where the collar

>bone meets that shoulder on the left side of my body. I have tried

>massaging the area with no relief. Then my girlfriend found a spot

>around the middle of my back next to the shoulder blade that feels

>like a knot. When she massages it, I feel even more pain, but it

>does feel a little better. The pain sometimes radiates up into my

>neck and to the where the bicep connects to the bone around the

>armpit area. I sometimes feel a sort of numbness around my neck and

>face from this. I noticed one day when I would do shoulder shrugs

>that the pain almost immediately disappears! I don't know why but it

>feels better for a few days and then come back. I don't think it has

>anything to do with a slipped disk or rotator cuff injury because as

>I raise my arm above my head, it doesn't hurt any more or less. I

>think a nerve is being pinched by a muscle, but I don't want to go on

>like this not knowing for sure. Is there some sort of stretch or

>message that can relieve the pinched nerve? Please help!

>

>Marco DiMichele

March 10, 2009

Hi ,

Have you considered artificial disc replacement surgery to solve the problems/pain in your neck?

You asked if discs above fusion wear out faster than normal. I have been told the answer to that is yes. When most of your discs are fused, the ones that aren't have a greater burden and can degenerate more quickly than they should.

Your situation sounds similiar to mine. At age 13 I was fused from T-2 to L-4. I am almost 48 now. Two years ago I had a revision surgery that removed some of my old hardware and installed new hardware and fused my lower back down to S-1. My neck (and shoulder and left arm) started bothering me in my early 40's. I used narcotics, physical therapy, chiropractic and massage for a few years but eventually the pain got bad enough that I felt I needed to talk to a surgeon about a better solution. Like your surgeon, mine didn't want to take away what limited mobility I had. Dr. Chapman (Seattle, WA, University of Washington Medical Center) was wonderful! It took over 2 years to get FDA approval and reach an agreement with my medical insurance company. However.....the end result was well worth the wait. 3 months ago I had 3 artificial discs put in my neck at C4-5, 5-6 and 6-7. The surgery was the easiest one I've had and the recovery has been remarkably simple. I was in the hospital for 2 days and back to work in 2 weeks. My neck has more flexibility than it had before the surgery. The artificial discs move just like (or better) than normal cervical discs.

There is some good information about artificial disc replacement on the internet. The procedure has been done successfully in Europe for several years. The implants my dr. used are ProDisc C. FDA approval for single level use was granted a little over a year ago. They can be used "off label" for multiple levels, but most insurance companies consider off label use "experimental" which causes problems with approval and payment.

I would encourage you to research this subject and discuss the possibility with your dr. It was certainly the best choice for me. I am so happy to have my neck pain gone and still be able to move my neck up and down and side to side.

Please stay in touch with this group and let us know what your MRI shows and what your dr. recommends as a solution for you. If you have any questions that I can answer, feel free to email me! Best wishes and good luck to you.

Melody

From: denisev569@...Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:24:09 +0000Subject: Shoulder and neck pain

As luck would have it we are having one of our worst blizzards in years today so I can't make it in to work and it gives me some time to send a post that I have been wanting to send for a long time. I live in Fargo, ND and it is very unusual for the schools or anything else to shut down, it takes a raging act of nature, which we seem to have today. I am fused from T3 to S1, have had more surgeries than I can count but I do keep track of what I consider to be my 'big' surgeries and I have had five of those. I was born with scoliosis and had my first 'big' surgery when I was 2 and they pretty much continued from there. In 2003 I had revision surgery where they reinforced the T12 to L3 fusion and added fusions to S1. I had a follow up surgery in 2004 where they removed all of the hardware because a hook was pushing through my skin. I haven't had any 'big' surgeries since then. I do have a neuro stimulator implanted in my lower and middle back and that does OK for pain control, the morphine didn't do anything more for me than the stimulator does and at least I have a clear mind. The problem I have now is my neck and shoulders. I can barely turn my head because the pain is so bad and I had one neuro surgeon suggest that my cervical disks were all bad and there was nothing that could be done. I am not so sure that it should be blamed on my cervical disks because of the shoulder pain and that seems to be coming more from my upper thoracic area. I hear of the disks wearing out below the fusions, which mine did, but I don't seem to hear much about the disks wearing out above the fusions. Does that happen to people? I also wonder now that my lumbar spine is more than solid could the old fusions in the thoracic area be worn out from working harder because the lumbar disks don't have to anymore? We were finally blessed with a great neurosurgeon that came in from Boston, his name is Dr. Selland. He told me that he had been retired but came out of retirement to train in two of the doctors in our area. He is an amazing doctor, I have never trusted someone so much. He looked at my x-rays, MRIs, CTs and everything else I had and told me that he could just cry, he had never seen such messed up work in all his life. He even asked me how it was possible that I could even walk with what they did to me. I told him that when I had the revision surgery I had an 8 year old inspiration (my daughter) who wasn't going to let me give up. He told me that he thought it was amazing that I had recovered that much. I do walk with with a cane but how can I complain about the cane after what I heard from this doctor? Anyway, he set me up with a cervical mylogram on March 24th, hopefully we will get some answers there, he already has some ideas on what the problem is he just wants more clarity in what he is seeing. He told me that he couldn't justify taking away the little mobility I have left so doesn't recommend fusing anything else, which I didn't want that anyway.I am really hoping that I don't have to go back on narcotics for pain relief, I spent more than 10 years taking narcotics and have been completely off of them for almost two years now. I always knew that it wouldn't be permanent that I would be off of them but I was hoping for more than two years. I do use lidocaine patches on my shoulders and neck but they don't seem to be working as well as they used to. And of course the weather doesn't seem to help much, if Spring and Summer would arrive soon I think I would feel much better.

March 10, 2009

,

I am so sorry to hear about your ongoing problems. Can your neurosurgeon offer

you any help?

I remember you were planning on a neurostimulator but didn't know you already

had it in place -- wow. I'm glad it seems to be helping.

Just to add a minor qualification to what you wrote about morphine: How well I

know that it can muddy your thinking -- but I have not found this to be the case

with the intrathecal morphine I was receiving from my own implanted pain pump

before they switched my medication. The wonderful thing about direct intraspinal

infusion is how (relatively) little of the stuff actually gets to your brain.

Also, because it is being sent right to where it is needed, the intrathecal

dosage is much lower than if you were getting it by mouth or IV and it had to

travel through your systemic circulation to reach the point where you are

hurting.

It's wonderful to hear from you again. I hope at some point you will be posting

more often. You are such a trooper, and such an inspiration to others.

Best,

>

> As luck would have it we are having one of our worst blizzards in years today

so I can't make it in to work and it gives me some time to send a post that I

have been wanting to send for a long time. I live in Fargo, ND and it is very

unusual for the schools or anything else to shut down, it takes a raging act of

nature, which we seem to have today.

>

> I am fused from T3 to S1, have had more surgeries than I can count but I do

keep track of what I consider to be my 'big' surgeries and I have had five of

those. I was born with scoliosis and had my first 'big' surgery when I was 2

and they pretty much continued from there. In 2003 I had revision surgery where

they reinforced the T12 to L3 fusion and added fusions to S1. I had a follow up

surgery in 2004 where they removed all of the hardware because a hook was

pushing through my skin. I haven't had any 'big' surgeries since then. I do

have a neuro stimulator implanted in my lower and middle back and that does OK

for pain control, the morphine didn't do anything more for me than the

stimulator does and at least I have a clear mind.

>

> The problem I have now is my neck and shoulders. I can barely turn my head

because the pain is so bad and I had one neuro surgeon suggest that my cervical

disks were all bad and there was nothing that could be done. I am not so sure

that it should be blamed on my cervical disks because of the shoulder pain and

that seems to be coming more from my upper thoracic area. I hear of the disks

wearing out below the fusions, which mine did, but I don't seem to hear much

about the disks wearing out above the fusions. Does that happen to people? I

also wonder now that my lumbar spine is more than solid could the old fusions in

the thoracic area be worn out from working harder because the lumbar disks don't

have to anymore?

>

> We were finally blessed with a great neurosurgeon that came in from Boston,

his name is Dr. Selland. He told me that he had been retired but came out of

retirement to train in two of the doctors in our area. He is an amazing doctor,

I have never trusted someone so much. He looked at my x-rays, MRIs, CTs and

everything else I had and told me that he could just cry, he had never seen such

messed up work in all his life. He even asked me how it was possible that I

could even walk with what they did to me. I told him that when I had the

revision surgery I had an 8 year old inspiration (my daughter) who wasn't going

to let me give up. He told me that he thought it was amazing that I had

recovered that much. I do walk with with a cane but how can I complain about

the cane after what I heard from this doctor? Anyway, he set me up with a

cervical mylogram on March 24th, hopefully we will get some answers there, he

already has some ideas on what the problem is he just wants more clarity in what

he is seeing. He told me that he couldn't justify taking away the little

mobility I have left so doesn't recommend fusing anything else, which I didn't

want that anyway.

>

> I am really hoping that I don't have to go back on narcotics for pain relief,

I spent more than 10 years taking narcotics and have been completely off of them

for almost two years now. I always knew that it wouldn't be permanent that I

would be off of them but I was hoping for more than two years. I do use

lidocaine patches on my shoulders and neck but they don't seem to be working as

well as they used to. And of course the weather doesn't seem to help much, if

Spring and Summer would arrive soon I think I would feel much better.

>

March 10, 2009

Hi Melody,

Thank you so much for your response, I really appreciate hearing from you. I

didn't know that it was possible to have artificial disks after a previous

surgery and then to have multiple levels too. You have really made my day

hearing that it is possible if I put some foot work into it. I am going to

research all I can before my next appointment and bring it all in with me.

It is a Mylogram I am having on the 24th, with the neuro stimulator I can't have

MRIs anymore, it is like having a pace maker and the magnets in the MRI will

cause something to react in a bad way with the neurostimulator. I did have an

old MRI that I brought to this new neurosurgeon and he was quite happy to have

it.

I hope that it is OK if I keep in touch with you as I move through this process.

If I can get my neck and shoulder pain under control I can probably work for a

few more years. I am in my early 30's and not ready to give up my career quite

yet.

>

> Hi ,

>

> Have you considered artificial disc replacement surgery to solve the

problems/pain in your neck?

>

> You asked if discs above fusion wear out faster than normal. I have been told

the answer to that is yes. When most of your discs are fused, the ones that

aren't have a greater burden and can degenerate more quickly than they should.

>

> Your situation sounds similiar to mine. At age 13 I was fused from T-2 to

L-4. I am almost 48 now. Two years ago I had a revision surgery that removed

some of my old hardware and installed new hardware and fused my lower back down

to S-1. My neck (and shoulder and left arm) started bothering me in my early

40's. I used narcotics, physical therapy, chiropractic and massage for a few

years but eventually the pain got bad enough that I felt I needed to talk to a

surgeon about a better solution. Like your surgeon, mine didn't want to take

away what limited mobility I had. Dr. Chapman (Seattle, WA, University of

Washington Medical Center) was wonderful! It took over 2 years to get FDA

approval and reach an agreement with my medical insurance company.

However.....the end result was well worth the wait. 3 months ago I had 3

artificial discs put in my neck at C4-5, 5-6 and 6-7. The surgery was the

easiest one I've had and the recovery has been remarkably simple. I was in the

hospital for 2 days and back to work in 2 weeks. My neck has more flexibility

than it had before the surgery. The artificial discs move just like (or better)

than normal cervical discs.

>

> There is some good information about artificial disc replacement on the

internet. The procedure has been done successfully in Europe for several years.

The implants my dr. used are ProDisc C. FDA approval for single level use was

granted a little over a year ago. They can be used " off label " for multiple

levels, but most insurance companies consider off label use " experimental " which

causes problems with approval and payment.

>

> I would encourage you to research this subject and discuss the possibility

with your dr. It was certainly the best choice for me. I am so happy to have

my neck pain gone and still be able to move my neck up and down and side to

side.

>

> Please stay in touch with this group and let us know what your MRI shows and

what your dr. recommends as a solution for you. If you have any questions that

I can answer, feel free to email me! Best wishes and good luck to you.

>

> Melody

>

> From: denisev569@...

> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:24:09 +0000

> Subject: Shoulder and neck pain

>

> As luck would have it we are having one of our worst blizzards in years today

so I can't make it in to work and it gives me some time to send a post that I

have been wanting to send for a long time. I live in Fargo, ND and it is very

unusual for the schools or anything else to shut down, it takes a raging act of

nature, which we seem to have today.

>

> I am fused from T3 to S1, have had more surgeries than I can count but I do

keep track of what I consider to be my 'big' surgeries and I have had five of

those. I was born with scoliosis and had my first 'big' surgery when I was 2 and

they pretty much continued from there. In 2003 I had revision surgery where they

reinforced the T12 to L3 fusion and added fusions to S1. I had a follow up

surgery in 2004 where they removed all of the hardware because a hook was

pushing through my skin. I haven't had any 'big' surgeries since then. I do have

a neuro stimulator implanted in my lower and middle back and that does OK for

pain control, the morphine didn't do anything more for me than the stimulator

does and at least I have a clear mind.